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InvisibleHypnotoadCroaked
Retired, but will check MSGs

Registered: 01/05/13
Posts: 1,168
Re: new pressure cooker. [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #18824600 - 09/10/13 06:16 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
It won't be as energy efficient as my 16qt Presto (probably the same one Whippy has)



Presto has been making them pretty much identical for decades.  Mine was made in 74' best I guess from the stamp inside the lid.  It is bright yellow and it is heavy duty cast aluminum.  I don't know what they make them out of now, but I'm sure there are differences in manufacture. 

Yes 8-12 psi might work (though doubtful read on).  You may have to make more than a few trial runs to document how many hours it takes to guarantee bacteria etc do not survive.  If it takes 90min @ 15 psi, it may take 120 minutes+ at 8-12psi.  The jiggler on this unit is said to vent @ 12 psi down to 8psi.  This sort of "decompression" could result in dried grains.  You will drop from 242f down to 233f in a short instant.  It may be impossible to keep grains properly hydrated with these conditions.  Water evaporates from the grain when this happens.

It is no different than pulling the jiggler from a larger unit.  The larger units hold at 15 psi, and vent over that.  This is creates a constant pressure/temp. 

My concern with long lengths of cooking with such a small PC with this behavior, is that it could run out of water.  It is venting out steam every time it jiggles...lots of it.  12 down to 8 is quite a good deal of volume and heat.  Everything about trying to make the best out of the improper tool is a recipe for failure.  This is simply not even close to optimal.  It might work, but for the headache involved, you would do best to get something more inline with the hobby.  There are very good reasons why we use the units we do.

*Edit*

For science:  My statement that this unit vents @ 12 psi down to 8 is directly from the specs q/a from the provided link. 


Edited by HypnotoadCroaked (09/10/13 06:19 PM)


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OfflineMush4Brains
LOOL HACKED!!!

Registered: 07/31/13
Posts: 4,419
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: new pressure cooker. [Re: HypnotoadCroaked]
    #18824636 - 09/10/13 06:25 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Well at least my Presto should be around in 40 years :yesnod:.  Except now they're made in China :frown:, so maybe not.

You're right, the decompression could cause an issue, but as long as you have the right temperature on the stove shouldn't you be able to prevent this decompression?

Yes, you will need trial runs, but there is no reason if kept between 8-12 PSI you can most definitely sterilize grains.

If you keep your stove on high while PCing, you can easily boil off your water, that is why once you reach pressure you turn your stove down, no?


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InvisibleHypnotoadCroaked
Retired, but will check MSGs

Registered: 01/05/13
Posts: 1,168
Re: new pressure cooker. [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #18825077 - 09/10/13 08:07 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
You're right, the decompression could cause an issue, but as long as you have the right temperature on the stove shouldn't you be able to prevent this decompression?

Yes, you will need trial runs, but there is no reason if kept between 8-12 PSI you can most definitely sterilize grains.

If you keep your stove on high while PCing, you can easily boil off your water, that is why once you reach pressure you turn your stove down, no?



How do you know you are between 8 and 12 psi?  There is no gauge to speak of.  Sure you can back off the heat, but then how do you know how much pressure you are at.  Every time the blow-off drops pressure, your grains are drying out.  If it cannot maintain constant, readable and predictable pressure it is not close to optimal. 

You have less water in the pot, and more time to waste it.  The chance for failure in that situation is greater.  2 inches of water in this unit and this unit is 9 inches wide.  3.14* (4.5*4.5) *2 = 127 cubic inches......OR approx half gallon

(Pi times radius Squared Times height in inches is volume divided by 231 cubic inches)

A 16 quart presto is 12 inches wide
3.14* (6*6) *2 = 226 cubic inches or approx a whole gallon.

So a presto 16 quart with 2 inches of water holds twice as much water, and will run quite a bit less time.  I don't know if it even possible for the "Canadian Tire model" to not run itself dry.  I have never used a half gallon of water up, but I've never run my pc over 2 hours.  This one may require 2.5+ hours @ ????? Psi. 

The unit in question is listed at 6 inches tall.  A ball quart jar with a lid is 6 1/2.  You can probably fit 3-4  pint jars in this unit.  You can do more with a cheaper stock pot and PF tek.  One can get a huge stock pot, brf, verm, and jars for a similar cost, and make much more colonized spawn in less time.  This alone is reason enough to take it back.  It was purchased based only on cost, and there are better options.  It certainly should not have been purchased because it was a perfect size for our hobby.

Quote:

Whippy said:
Everything about trying to make the best out of the improper tool is a recipe for failure.  This is simply not even close to optimal.  It might work, but for the headache involved, you would do best to get something more inline with the hobby.  There are very good reasons why we use the units we do.




I am not saying that it will not work at all.  I am saying that it is "not even close to optimal".  Its a moot point to argue a hypothetical.  The unit price is listed as $49.99.  FWIW as a pressure cooker for food, this is overpriced.  For $20-30 more You can do MUCH MUCH more, more efficiently and predictably with a real pressure cooker.

I wouldn't use this for anything, certainly not for trying to sterilize grain.  The reviews alone should identify durability.

So to recap my reasoning:

inability to note actual pressure
Possibility to dry out grain due to decompression at temps over boiling
Inefficient size for hobby
Possibility to run dry on long runs. 

There is a bit that COULD go wrong.  I would think that grains drying out would be the most prevalent issue.


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OfflineMush4Brains
LOOL HACKED!!!

Registered: 07/31/13
Posts: 4,419
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: new pressure cooker. [Re: HypnotoadCroaked]
    #18825160 - 09/10/13 08:28 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Can't argue with all of that, there is a more likely chance that something could go wrong.  I will say that I don't have any gauges on any of my cookers, so I have to trust the weight/toggle.

I would go with Frank and Whippy here and try to exchange this for a bigger model at Canadiantire, or order one online if you can find free or cheap shipping.

However, I will still stand by the fact that an 8PSI cooker can cook grains perfectly fine.


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InvisibleHypnotoadCroaked
Retired, but will check MSGs

Registered: 01/05/13
Posts: 1,168
Re: new pressure cooker. [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #18825178 - 09/10/13 08:35 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:

However, I will still stand by the fact that an 8PSI cooker can cook grains perfectly fine.



:maximumtrolling:

Id agree with that statement 100%.  If you can maintain constant, readable, and predictable pressure, it can certainly be done.  This unit offers none of that in a small package with a disproportionate price.


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OfflineMush4Brains
LOOL HACKED!!!

Registered: 07/31/13
Posts: 4,419
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: new pressure cooker. [Re: HypnotoadCroaked]
    #18825206 - 09/10/13 08:39 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I thought I had read through all of the questions but missed the height of it :facepalm:.  But every thorough discussion like this will help people in the future.


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Offlineunderfliptown
I suck and you should kill me


Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 14,344
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: new pressure cooker. [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #18825465 - 09/10/13 09:31 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Well I am convinced.

Although I am almost tempted to experiment with this PC for grains for the sake of science. I just checked how many jars fit: 4...

Disappointing. If i didn't need the money to get the good one I would for sure experiment with this. I'll do it later anyways, I am kind of interested is seeing who is right with actual evidence.


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