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OfflineNocturnalValentine
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Trichocereus Peruvianus ID
    #18819133 - 09/09/13 02:37 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Hello Shroomery! Long time skimmer, first time poster, and I've got a fun one!

I've got a cactus that I'm pretty sure is a Peruvian Torch or one of it's close relatives and I would sincerely appreciate a second opinion.

Is this indeed a Trichocereus Peruvianus? Perhaps a Bridgesii?

Thanks in advance!!



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Invisibleferrel_human
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Re: Trichocereus Peruvianus ID [Re: NocturnalValentine]
    #18819164 - 09/09/13 02:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Itz a hybrid peruvianus

Nice find


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Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely.
-Karode


Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade


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Invisiblemodern.shaman
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Re: Trichocereus Peruvianus ID [Re: ferrel_human]
    #18819297 - 09/09/13 03:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I'd say that is a bridgesoid possibly crossed with a peruvianus. Looks nice.


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Offline420milehigh
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Re: Trichocereus Peruvianus ID [Re: modern.shaman]
    #18819303 - 09/09/13 03:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

:whathesaid:


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All posts are entirely, 100%, conclusively false or complete works of fiction... but I can levitate lol

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Benjamin Franklin

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Invisiblefee
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Re: Trichocereus Peruvianus ID [Re: 420milehigh]
    #18819792 - 09/09/13 05:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Thirded


--------------------

blankk said to fee:
btw you're a total fucking psychedelic pimp
Turtletotem said:
I want to become a sun worshipper, so next time an atheist smugly asks me where god is, I can point smugly at the sun and laugh my ass off.

Then I drive away in my solar powered piece of shit car, cool stuff man.

And then I go kill a bitch because the flaming orb in the sky told me to do so, and I don't know, oppress a few minorities here and there in the name of nuclear fusion?

Religion is fun.


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Invisiblekarode13Facebook
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Re: Trichocereus Peruvianus ID [Re: NocturnalValentine]
    #18820108 - 09/09/13 06:45 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Classic T. bridgesii.


A hybrid?  :wtfsonic:


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OfflineGoOnThen
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Re: Trichocereus Peruvianus ID [Re: karode13]
    #18820419 - 09/09/13 07:48 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Hybrid all the way :trollmove:














Seriously though as Karode said Classic Bridgesii

Cheers
Got


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Invisibleferrel_human
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Re: Trichocereus Peruvianus ID [Re: karode13]
    #18820780 - 09/09/13 08:52 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

karode13 said:
Classic T. bridgesii.


A hybrid?  :wtfsonic:




C'mon bro. Not to seem standoffish.

:freshwtf:


--------------------
Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely.
-Karode


Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade


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Invisiblekarode13Facebook
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Re: Trichocereus Peruvianus ID [Re: ferrel_human]
    #18821050 - 09/09/13 09:56 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Sorry cuz. It may seem like I'm picking on you but I'm just venting, not directly at you. Sorry if it seems I'm busting balls. I consider you an equal in this place.

Its just all the ratshit id's lately have me wondering wtf went wrong. We, as a forum, need to up our game.


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InvisibleBig L
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Re: Trichocereus Peruvianus ID [Re: karode13]
    #18822327 - 09/10/13 07:51 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Bridgesii for sure. I am not going to call anything a hybrid anymore, unless I know where the cross came from. The appearance of species in the Trich group can change depending on growing condition. People here seem to have one image of a pedro, one image of bridgesii and one of peruvianus. That is confusing since most likely those mental images are mutts grown in one specific climate.


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Invisiblegopener
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Re: Trichocereus Peruvianus ID [Re: Big L]
    #18822994 - 09/10/13 11:20 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Correct me if i am wrong,
Bridgestii doesn't have longer spikes than peruvianus?
They can have the same bluish colour and ribs formation though, right?


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InvisibleTangich

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Re: Trichocereus Peruvianus ID [Re: gopener]
    #18823195 - 09/10/13 12:12 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Bridgesii usually has longer spines than peruvianus, and has 3-5 spines of equal length, while peruvianus has one central long one, and up to ~8 short ones around it. That's the general rule of thumb at least.


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Invisiblegopener
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Re: Trichocereus Peruvianus ID [Re: Tangich]
    #18823219 - 09/10/13 12:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

:super:


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OfflineNocturnalValentine
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Re: Trichocereus Peruvianus ID [Re: gopener]
    #18823405 - 09/10/13 01:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks for all the help guys! I was going to come back and ask what differentiated the two, but it appears Tangich has done that pretty well.

Is there anything else that I can look for to help me tell the difference  in the future? Because those two tend to look pretty similar to me.

What characteristics do they both share that prompts so many to assume hybrid?


---


I also found another one today that I think might be a San Pedro! I'll have to go snap a picture!


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InvisibleTangich

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Re: Trichocereus Peruvianus ID [Re: NocturnalValentine]
    #18823483 - 09/10/13 01:32 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Bridgesii is probably the easiest Trichocereus to identify, but I can't really name the specific characteristics except the spines. I have several hybrids, most with bridgesii as a mother plant, and they bear almost no resemblance to bridgesii. So hybrids would be very difficult to properly identify if you don't know the parents.
Peruvianus on the other hand has many varieties, and it's identification is not as easy. It has been misidentified in the past, some vendors were selling cuzcoensis as peruvianus, peruvianus as macrogonus etc. People also have the image of pachanoi as the PC clone, with very short spine, and many seed grown varieties have longer spines and are sometimes confused for peruvianus. But the general rules are dark coloured, longer spines that start reddish, and notches above the areoles.


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Offlineintelligentlife
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Re: Trichocereus Peruvianus ID [Re: Tangich]
    #18823772 - 09/10/13 03:01 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I have read definition about trichocereus bridgesii and spines coming from aerole was defined as amounts of one or four spines per aerole. Lack of radial spines is one ID specific to trichocereus bridgesii species according to one good cactus website where is lots of data.

Trichocereus cannot never be said for sure but I have seen later "long spined t. peruviana" label cactus sold in here europe and it looks like one, it has too lack of radial spines.

More I would say cactus is t. bridgesii or F1 hybrid of bridgesii rather than t. peruviana.

However, only spine amount doesn't define the species but for bridgesii cactus are very common to have only one to four spines and one or two of them are central spines and rest are radial spines. Also TBM cacti has very small amount of spines instead of san pedro and peruvian torch have lots of spines and radial spines, san pedro cactus just have very small spines but lots of them, some times san pedro cactus have one central spine or central spine with few radial spines.

Very rarely t. bridgesii have lots of radial spines so I would guess the cactus as T. bridgesii cause of relatively small amount of spines.

There are still exceptions to rule but afaik that's now days one good indicator of trichocereus bridgesii cactus or possible hybrid of bridgesii where dominating genetics showing appearance of spine formation what t. bridgesii have.

This cactus is disturbingly similar to "long spined peruvian torch" sold in here europe. Nursery is actually sponsor of this forum. I have not obtained the plant sold as it but seen photo of that cactus and it was too "peruvian torch" with lack of radial spines and randomly very long central spine.

I really don't know any good definition to peruvian torch cactus than large amount of spines, but most cactus internet site define bridgesii as lack of spines but spines are long and san pedro are defined as "spineless" even it has lots of small radial spines, sometimes with longer central spine.

This cactus still doesn't look so much of a hybrid trichocereus than most of cactus I have seen.. I would say it's trichocereus bridgesii or very close t. bridgesii hybrid.

According to information I have obtained from various sources, this cactus would be commonly ID for bridgesii tho.. Nowdays, only plant owner and vendors know the origin of the cactus and species of it but mostly trichocereus are all the same with different appearance. Only t. pachanoi and t. bridgesii have known to be different alkaloid content and bridgesii have alkaloids what any other trichocereus species doesn't have, based on knowledge there is around.

My self, I don't now days actually care different species or appearance trichocereus or think the species of them cause seeds from one plant can grow lots of different appearance plants with similarities and with unique details. Variations on appearance within the genus of trichocereus are interesting enough to collect them without thinking the species or possible hybrid or subspecies... Today there can be commonly known trichocereus subspecies born via hybridizing the species but they are not know and studied enough..

For example I know one nursery selling hybridized trichocereus plants what are very stable and similar seedlings for considering the facts that they are known to be hybridized plants sold under label of t. pachanoi or t. peruviana. San pedro hybrid seed grown cacti have their own appearance and peruvian torch hybrids have their own appearance.

Nursery what sell these hybridized seed grown plants labeled as t. pachanoi/peruviana said they are hybridized plants, but hundreds of similar appearance hybrids proof that seeds source and production of them are possible inbreed hybrids cause they are very stable cacti species and growth speed, diameter, spine amount and color etc are very similar, but cause of seed grown cactus, they are not still perfectly identical to each others but enough similar that they can be considered as stable hybridized species of trichocereus, mother and father plant is known only the producer of seeds for these nice fine stable hybrid specimens. About alkaloid content of these similar appearance trichos, I have no idea more than all of they are "poisonous"
..word "poisonous" are said for me cause that nursery doesn't sell trichocereus species for consumption at all and doesn't want to involve to any kind of illegal drug market.

Trichocereus are just decoration plant business mostly outside of south america and most of people with are attracted the amount of variations inside this spectacular species.

This is rare or not even common that I identify any trichocereus but still I want to take a guess that this cactus is indeed T. Bridgesii(or very close relative) according to data I have read and know about different species inside the genus of psychoactive trichocereus cacti.

There is chance I am very wrong about this but truth about this is known only that guy who has picked the seeds from fruit and pollinate the flower where the fruit has come with seed inside, now grown to mature cactus plant.

One thing I still can say, not a peruvian torch nor san pedro cactus. Even I have seen t. bridgesii also said as san pedro..

What comes text up there, I am thinking the same that t. bridgesii and t. pachanoi are easy to ID but what comes to peruvian torches, there are so much of "this and that" and no one knows about what is really real peruvian torch and what's not..
About t. bridgesii, ID is not so hard and to my eye I would say cactus is most likely t. bridgesii.. There are lots of seed grown t. bridgesii around, they have still their own appearance what can be ID as easy as t. pachanoi. That cactus doesn't seems to be so much hybridized that saying t. bridgesii is false ID.. Still even one cactus nursery in states has shown pics about t. pachanoi x t. peruvianus and actually cactus looks too much of t. pachanoi that without knowing it to be a hybrid one, I would be ID that one as san pedro along the another san pedros.

Most tricky ID questions are around the peruvian torch cacti and I understand why cause plants under the name of peruvian torch and number of variations of appearance makes everyone think about the fact is it real or not.. And the question comes, are peruvian torch species just so variable that they are hard to separate away from hybridized spiny trichocereus and t. cuzcoensis etc?

I wan't to keep this one as t. bridgesii based to data I know about the appearance of that species.:sun:

...not every differences in appearance caused by hybridizing, not every hybrid seeds grow variable plants if they are long time inbreed hybrids. Me as a trichocereus collector, I don't really care or think much what is the species in my collection, I like the differences at appearance along this cactus genus and trying to collect as much different looking trichocereus what's possible.

I have my self few t. bridgesii seedlings and they are not identical, rib amount doesn't tell anything cause light levels can change it. But every one of them have bridgesii-type spine formation, randomly long spines, spine amount are 2 or 5 spines per aerole, etc.. I know the parents of them are possible not "pure" bridgesii but I don't think so much of it. Form of them are still different than south american san pedros and hybrid trichocereus sold as label peruvian torch or san pedro.

"Real hybrid" can be actually know if you sow 100 seeds and some years later you have lots of very different trichocereus, fat, slim, spineless, spiny, blue, green, etc.. They are hybrids for sure.. But still in commercial scale in here europe, there are stable appearance hybrids what are actually just trichocereus but they are sold as peruvian torches, san pedros or as t. bridgesii.

I have noticed in this forum and few others where is lots of talk about psychoactive cacti that people "fear" t. cuzcoensis even few studies show they have mescaline and some smartshops in europe sell t. cuzcoensis as mescaline cactus and few another forums talk t. cuzcoensis doses cause of dried chips are labeled to it. I think most of the confusion still comes when people mix two separate things together, dried trichocereus tissue products sold as "this and that" and real living trichocereus just sold as what they looks like and it's very common in decoration plant business. T. bridgesii plants are labeled san pedro for example..
Actually lots of different plants no matter are they comes from hippie who has trip off from them or are they comes from cactus nursery, in here europe lots of different plants are labeled san pedro cactus and for someone san pedro means psychoactive cactus native to andes, no matter what it looks. Nurseries selling plants for decorations doesn't even talk about mescaline, they just do business and sell trichocereus to make money :yesnod:


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Edited by intelligentlife (09/10/13 03:49 PM)


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Invisiblegopener
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Re: Trichocereus Peruvianus ID [Re: Tangich]
    #18823985 - 09/10/13 03:44 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Tangich said:
Bridgesii is probably the easiest Trichocereus to identify, but I can't really name the specific characteristics except the spines. I have several hybrids, most with bridgesii as a mother plant, and they bear almost no resemblance to bridgesii. So hybrids would be very difficult to properly identify if you don't know the parents.
Peruvianus on the other hand has many varieties, and it's identification is not as easy. It has been misidentified in the past, some vendors were selling cuzcoensis as peruvianus, peruvianus as macrogonus etc. People also have the image of pachanoi as the PC clone, with very short spine, and many seed grown varieties have longer spines and are sometimes confused for peruvianus. But the general rules are dark coloured, longer spines that start reddish, and notches above the areoles.




My pachanoi have similar appearance like the peruvianus as you described         


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Offlineintelligentlife
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Re: Trichocereus Peruvianus ID [Re: gopener]
    #18824047 - 09/10/13 04:04 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

gopener said:
Quote:

Tangich said:
Bridgesii is probably the easiest Trichocereus to identify, but I can't really name the specific characteristics except the spines. I have several hybrids, most with bridgesii as a mother plant, and they bear almost no resemblance to bridgesii. So hybrids would be very difficult to properly identify if you don't know the parents.
Peruvianus on the other hand has many varieties, and it's identification is not as easy. It has been misidentified in the past, some vendors were selling cuzcoensis as peruvianus, peruvianus as macrogonus etc. People also have the image of pachanoi as the PC clone, with very short spine, and many seed grown varieties have longer spines and are sometimes confused for peruvianus. But the general rules are dark coloured, longer spines that start reddish, and notches above the areoles.




My pachanoi have similar appearance like the peruvianus as you described         




My "t. pachanoi" looks like this:


Two of my "peruvian torch" looks like this:


Pots are not same size to these plants. Peruvian torch on the first picture have pot size of 8x8cm.. San pedro and peruvian torch on second picture have pot size of 13x13cm

Nursery said they are hybridized(and "poisonous") san pedros and peruvian torches and there is nothing to do about it. Even they are hybridized, they are not so hybridized that every seed grown cactus are so different than they look totally different species. Quite stable strain of hybrid trichocereus just sold as these two names.

I have not labeled these trichos to anything and I have few more from same source. Cause of flash in the camera makes blue color kinda bright, but they are actually quite blue. I have still one "peruvian torch" quite green but now after few seasons, this season cactus has started to grow deep green-blue coloration on top.

My t. bridgesii seedlings are very pale green compared to these. But they are so young that saying anything solid out of them is not so important yet. I just wait few seasons and see how they turn in to and does the appearance change between them or not.


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Edited by intelligentlife (09/10/13 04:18 PM)


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Invisibleferrel_human
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Re: Trichocereus Peruvianus ID [Re: karode13]
    #18824279 - 09/10/13 05:02 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

karode13 said:
Sorry cuz. It may seem like I'm picking on you but I'm just venting, not directly at you. Sorry if it seems I'm busting balls. I consider you an equal in this place.

Its just all the ratshit id's lately have me wondering wtf went wrong. We, as a forum, need to up our game.



Sounds cool.

Vert pretty bridgessii.


--------------------
Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely.
-Karode


Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade


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