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Offlinezappaisgod
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Obama's big out on Syria
    #18818740 - 09/09/13 12:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

So it is quite clear that Obama has utterly botched this entire Syria thing form the beginning but this here might be quite the gift.  And it comes from Putin, no less, who has made him look like an utter fool for 5 years.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/john-kerry-in-london-campaigns-for-world-to-support-military-strike-against-syria/2013/09/09/e8ad7a72-193d-11e3-80ac-96205cacb45a_story.html

Quote:

MOSCOW — The government of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad on Monday said it welcomed a Russian proposal to avert U.S. military strikes by having Damascus turn over control of its chemical weapons to international monitors.




Come to think of it, Putin is making him look like an idiot again.  Why didn't the Duffer-in-Chief think of this?

We have the stupidest President with the stupidest advisers that I can recall in my entire lifetime.


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Obama's big out on Syria [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18818813 - 09/09/13 12:50 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

This seems like the logical move. Putin has certainly outclassed Obama, his weakness is palpable. His actions wont even remove Assad, its just fucking pointless, lets let the inspectors take out the chemical weapons, let the massacre commence, we obviously don't have a shred of moral high ground to stand on.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Obama's big out on Syria [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #18818827 - 09/09/13 12:53 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
This seems like the logical move. Putin has certainly outclassed Obama, his weakness is palpable. His actions wont even remove Assad, its just fucking pointless, lets let the inspectors take out the chemical weapons, let the massacre commence, we obviously don't have a shred of moral high ground to stand on.



There is no moral high ground for anybody.  Both sides in Syria are utter scum.


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Offlinefungus_tao
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Re: Obama's big out on Syria [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18818848 - 09/09/13 01:05 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Where have I heard all of this before?


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Invisiblesetb
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Re: Obama's big out on Syria [Re: fungus_tao]
    #18818909 - 09/09/13 01:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Iran-Iraq war?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Obama's big out on Syria [Re: setb]
    #18818936 - 09/09/13 01:37 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Works for me.


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Obama's big out on Syria [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18819251 - 09/09/13 03:09 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
This seems like the logical move. Putin has certainly outclassed Obama, his weakness is palpable. His actions wont even remove Assad, its just fucking pointless, lets let the inspectors take out the chemical weapons, let the massacre commence, we obviously don't have a shred of moral high ground to stand on.



There is no moral high ground for anybody.  Both sides in Syria are utter scum.




I agree with you, Zappa, and I know me and you don't agree on a lot but, but we are both pragmatic, you maybe a bit farther to the right then me, but im glad that those progressives, and those on the right can see how incompetent Obama's actions are. Liberals and Progressives are disgusted at his administration, his mishandling of current events and foreign policy, his disastrous, and weak domestic policies. He is a weak weak president.

Of course, both sides are scum, that's war, Solzentysin (sp) in his book gulag archipelago drew a line, that in any event of war, their can be one polar opposite of absolute suffering, and on the end of that scale, those who profit and become powerful due to the conflict itself.

Im angry at Obama, he should of backed the FSA before those fucking islamist asshole al Qaeda dick heads started gaining a foothold in the country, So even if Assad falls, we are going to see another civil war between those hardline islamists and the secularist FSA on who should take over the reigns of government, considering that Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant, has carved out their own mini-state, Kurdish PYD has carved out their stake, and the Christians are walking a tight rope between rival islamist sects

As far as Christians go, the FSA absolutely needs them as an ally. In Sharia law according to Salafists, People of the Book (jews, and Christians) must pay the Jizya, a small tax levied against religious minorities to express their religion freely. Funny enough the Jizya is significantly  less then the Islamic Zakat tax, which every muslim should donate to charity and for the poor, according their prophet, that the people of the book should not be molested with if they paid the small jizya (which guaranteed arab protection against Christians and their right to practice their religion with out proseltyzing.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Obama's big out on Syria [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #18819284 - 09/09/13 03:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

If we were going to do anything we most certainly should have done it at the beginning but I would also point out that we got into the Egypt mess early with the ridiculous dream that there would be anyone but the Muslim Brotherhood, a particularly heinous group of slimeballs, who would prevail.  This is the general choice in the Muslim world these days.  Either you get a dictator or you get a sharia fruitcake.  Do you know what nation that isn't the case in?  Iraq.


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Obama's big out on Syria [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18820900 - 09/09/13 09:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
If we were going to do anything we most certainly should have done it at the beginning but I would also point out that we got into the Egypt mess early with the ridiculous dream that there would be anyone but the Muslim Brotherhood, a particularly heinous group of slimeballs, who would prevail.  This is the general choice in the Muslim world these days.  Either you get a dictator or you get a sharia fruitcake.  Do you know what nation that isn't the case in?  Iraq.





Look, I have no love for the MB, they have goals that are just too unrealistic, their friendliness towards Hamas is a major thorn in the side of a lasting peace in the Sinai and Gaza, and we know Hamas's biggest buddy is the Iranians, The MB are a selfish bunch, they couldn't figure out that the main reason for Mubarak's overthrow was the stagnant economy, the rise in energy and food prices. They were the only political party with enough clout around the last revolution to seem like they would be able to handle the reigns of government, well they screwed the pooch, first, by cozying up with those Hamas assholes who are one of the most despicable terrorist groups ever who barely give a fuck about the plight of their own people. Also, his heavy handedness towards protesters,he was carving out a dictatorship for himself and may of led to the same type of despotism Egypt threw the yoke off a year before.

The problem with Iraq, is they certainly do base their constitution upon Sharia, along with just about every modern arab state, some interpretations of Sharia aren't strict at all, while say in Saudia Arabia, they have the most strictest of implementation of Sharia law. It really depends on which fruitcake and his interpretation of Sharia.

Iraq unfortunately, is more cozy with Iran, after all, we didn't voluntarily leave Iraq, rather our contract for our troops to remain was expired and Nouri al Maliki refused to grant the US troops to remain in Iraq till 2014. Recently, Iraq itself has expressed concerns over Syria and are also against the Syrian strikes (my guess is because a strike against Syria, is a strike against Iran in the eyes of the Shiites of Iraq, who share more in common with Iran then other gulf states like Jordan, Turkey, S. Arabia,Qatar, UAE and others. The countries top leadership spent most of their lives in exile in Iran during the reign of Saddam. The situation in Iraq unfortunately is becoming a disaster, ethnic and sectarian tension in Syria is pouring over the borders into Iraq and Lebanon.
The recent spike in VBIED in crowded marketplaces, soccer games, cafe's, shops, police stations and checkpoints. Al Qaeda wants this giant civil war between Sunni-Shiite, they attack bystanders, civilians, innocents, because they want to spark a civil war, they want to show that the government cant stop these attacks, and they want the Shiites to attack the Sunni's. They want to destabilize everything.

A week ago, a car bomb exploded outside of Hezbollah's HQ's in Tripoli, killing 40 something people, before this, a popular Sunni Imam was assassinated by Hezbollah hitmen weeks before. This tit for tat violence is becoming more increasing in nature and Al Qaeda is the wedge that is being propped in between the two sects who have lived in moderate co-existence with each other for centuries.

Iraq, unfortunately, is in the Iranians pockets so deep that they may be irretrievable lost to foreign policy mistakes made through out the bush admin, and well into the the Obama admin, these two administrations have been some of the most absolute dismal presidents we have ever had.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/10293773/We-wring-our-hands-over-Syria-but-not-the-massacre-of-52-Iranians.html


Quote:

Last Sunday, while the eyes of the world were on the brouhaha that had followed the killing of 1,400 Syrians with poison gas, rather less attention was paid to an incident in neighbouring Iraq, where hundreds of Iraqi and Iranian troops burst into the remains of the once-neat little desert town of Ashraf to murder 52 unarmed Iranian dissidents in cold blood – many of them were handcuffed and shot in the back of the head.

One reason we might be concerned by this tragedy, however, is that this massacre, carried out on the direct orders of Iran’s Supreme Leader, the Ayatollah Khamenei, was only the latest twist to a much longer story, which arguably makes our own Foreign Office a passive accessory to the crime. I have long been reporting here on the extraordinary drama of how the residents of Ashraf have been horribly betrayed, not just by the prime minister of Iraq, Nouri al-Maliki, but also by a man called Martin Kobler, who until recently was the personal representative in Iraq of the UN secretary-general Ban Ki-moon.

No sooner had the last US forces left Iraq in 2009, having given each Ashraf resident a personal guarantee of safety, than the tragedy, engineered by their enemies in Tehran, began to unfold. In a first assault on Ashraf, 47 were killed and hundreds injured.

Then, in 2011, Kobler tricked 2,000 Ashrafites into moving, under false pretences, to a former US base, Camp Liberty, which turned out to be no more than a squalid prison, where scores more have been killed or injured.

Last weekend, deliberately taking advantage of the international focus on Syria, Iran’s Supreme Leader – Assad’s chief backer in the region – gave orders for another murderous assault on Ashraf, organised by Qassem Suleimani, commander of Iran’s Quds force, which is responsible for acts of terror across the Middle East. As Qassem reported in Tehran two days later, in a speech in which he said “we support Syria to the end”, the latest Ashraf operation had been a great success. Throughout this awful story neither the British Foreign Office nor the US State Department has raised a cheep of protest at the amply documented part played in it by Mr Kobler

When I asked the Foreign Office about this last February, after the latest assault on liberty had left seven people dead, it would only say that it “fully supported” everything Kobler had done in Iraq. There is clearly much more going on here than our government is prepared to tell us.






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InvisibleHalfLight
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Re: Obama's big out on Syria [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #18821964 - 09/10/13 03:32 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Well, first of all, Obama doesn't truly care about the citizens of Syria. He wasn't attempting any action when Assad's forces were kidnapping, torturing, raping, and murdering peaceful protesters and their family members back in 2011, but now he's calling "war criminal" because some Syrians were killed in a chemical weapons strike which there is no evidence of even being Assad's.

This is either because he decided draw the 'red line' with chemical weapons use (this explanation doesn't make sense, seeing as no one has proven Assad had anything to do with the nerve gas), or this is because Obama is a war-mongering replica of Bush who likes to kill random people who don't impact us in the dessert for oil (or maybe nothing, he seems like enough of a jackass that it might be true), or it's because Mr. Obama has small dick syndrome, and is feeling emasculated by Putin's style, and the sudden transfer of power to Russia and China.
My vote goes to him being a war-mongering idiot.

Yes, the call for turning over chemical weapons and precursors was a good idea by Putin (especially since Putin isn't pretending to be the world's hero), but if Obama really wanted to look like he cared, he would work towards making the refugee program more inclusive, and then attempt to use the money he's trying to use for military action in Syria, and put it towards bringing non-militant citizens in Syria here, or towards helping them reach another safe place. There's no reason to help either side of a military conflict that has no impact on your own security, unless they're an ally, or there's something to be gained by having one group in power. Literally no reason. There is moral and foreign relations value in assisting non-violent civilians though, which would have been his best move. But alas, the president has flushed himself too far down the toilet this time. There is no one who will reach power in this conflict that isn't isn't an enormous piece of shit, clogging the metaphorical toilet next to Barrack.

On another note. The chemical weapons red line is so arbitrary that it's childish given the previous actions of Syria's government. Hmm, given the choice, would I rather be taken from my home, raped, tortured to the point of wishing for death, and finally getting my wish with Assad's troops tossing me on the side of the road afterwards OR would I rather empty my body of waste and then enter a coma and die from sarin gas? I think I choose sarin.

In conclusion: Obama's an idiot and an asshole, Putin is smart and an asshole.


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Edited by HalfLight (09/10/13 02:13 PM)


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Offlinescoops88
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Re: Obama's big out on Syria [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18821997 - 09/10/13 04:01 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I say hit em up. The only problem is were looking for big trouble with Russia. potentially another world war. Thats some fucked up shit what they did thought and we need to protect the treaty.


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Obama's big out on Syria [Re: scoops88]
    #18825237 - 09/10/13 08:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

The "Duffer-In-Chief's" Secretary of State was the one who floated the proposal in the first place, champ. 

Putin was the one who looked like a little pussy, as it was only a couple hours later they had Syria admitting they had a chemical weapons program and would agree to such a proposal.


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Offlinesweeper54
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Re: Obama's big out on Syria [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #18825508 - 09/10/13 09:40 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Zap what part of " proposal to avert U.S. military strikes" didn't you get?

Without the threat of a strikes Putin doesn't need to do anything to back his puppet regime.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Obama's big out on Syria [Re: sweeper54]
    #18826906 - 09/11/13 08:33 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Oh so you think that Obama deserves credit for being a tough guy for strikes he was never going to get approval for and which would set off a Constitutional crisis to save his face?  The man is an idiot who is now taking foreign policy advice from a comedian

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3064943/posts

Quote:

Those were perhaps a little too serious for a Twitter account not devoted to foreign policy. So on Friday night (early Saturday in the East), Brooks sent out a Syria joke. "Russia and the U.S. could unite for one week," he tweeted, "go into Syria, remove the chemicals, and let them continue fighting."




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Offlinesweeper54
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Re: Obama's big out on Syria [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18826995 - 09/11/13 09:03 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Without Russia believing there might be a threat nothing will get done. No one is claiming he has handled this in the best way, but in the end it doesn't matter what you think, he could do everything right and you would find fault in it.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Obama's big out on Syria [Re: sweeper54] * 1
    #18827054 - 09/11/13 09:27 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

sweeper54 said:
he could do everything right and you would find fault in it.




Seeing as "doing everything right" is not something Obama is capable of... we'll never know.

Hell, even "doing most things right" seems beyond his abilities.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleMush 4 Brains
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Re: Obama's big out on Syria [Re: luvdemshrooms] * 1
    #18827145 - 09/11/13 10:10 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I watched his address last night, Obama was just grasping at straws trying to explain a legitimate reason for his decision of a strike.  My bullshit meter went off when he mentioned "the children" multiple times.

  Fact is that there's no legitimate reason for us to get involved.  Not only that, I believe there is a hidden agenda.  There is no one behind us aside from France, and that's only because Syria was a colony of France.  When Bush acted unilaterally we had 50 countries behind us.

It hasn't been established yet that Assad did in fact use chemical weapons.  We know they were used.  Assad's regime was winning before he supposedly used chemical weapons.  When he was winning using conventional methods why would he decide to use chemical weapons?  There is an idea floating around that this chemical weapons incident was a false flag attack with the purpose of getting the US involved.

And we have no defined goal in Syria.  So we do a military strike and then what?  What if Assad does something even more extreme in response to US intervention?  Obama swears this isn't going to become another war, I don't buy it.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Obama's big out on Syria [Re: Mush 4 Brains]
    #18827198 - 09/11/13 10:39 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

It isn't going to become another war because Congress will tell him to fuck off back to the Pub

I did not know that Syria had once been a French colony or protectorate or whatever they call it.

If Bush had 50 countries behind him it wasn't unilateral, was it?


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InvisibleMush 4 Brains
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Re: Obama's big out on Syria [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18827482 - 09/11/13 12:05 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:


It isn't going to become another war because Congress will tell him to fuck off back to the Pub




:ahahaha: I hope so, but who knows whats going to transpire after this military strike.  Assad said there will be consequences for US intervention.  I wonder what those consequences will be and how Obama will react to them.

Quote:

If Bush had 50 countries behind him it wasn't unilateral, was it?



I meant acting without approval from congress.

Oh and remember when Biden said that if Romney gets elected we'll go to war with Syria? :lol:

This whole chemical weapons excuse is bs.  He doesn't want Assad to use or posses chemical weapons, yet WE still have chemical weapons.  Obama's "think of the children" excuse is a sad sorry effort to convince the American people we need to act.  Syria is no threat to us and if they were we'd squash them like a bug.  Furthermore I think he gives a fuck about the Syrian people, most not involved with the fight have fled the country already.

We shouldn't get involved with any of this, by using military action we are tipping the scales in favor of the rebels.  Both sides are pretty much terrorists, there is some ulterior motive here.  Saying that this will help protect Americans (and our children as he specifically mentioned) is not a stretch it's an outright lie on Obama's part.  You would think that someone who was been awarded the nobel peace prize would attempt to resolve the conflict in another manner than military force.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Obama's big out on Syria [Re: Mush 4 Brains]
    #18827515 - 09/11/13 12:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Bush had approval from Congress.  Come on, man, pay better attention.


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