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DOJOLOACH
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Registered: 05/13/13
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Bulk substrate tub tips/teks?
#18816824 - 09/08/13 09:20 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ok so I am going to try a bulk grow using high mountain compost. I have been looking around and found the tek in the link below. I have 5 syringes of cubes on the way, one of which is Penis Envy.
My understanding of a bulk grow is this: 1st knock up some jars like you're doing pf tek. 2nd, when jars are fully colonized break them into chunks and place them into the compost. 3rd, let the compost fully colonize. 4th, begin FAE and fruiting conditions.
Does all this sound correct? What do you recommend.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7893964/page/2/fpart/2/vc/1
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Icepic
Enlightenment seeking


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Re: Bulk substrate tub tips/teks? [Re: DOJOLOACH]
#18816847 - 09/08/13 09:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Sounds good, but if you are doing bulk, I highly recommend you use grain as spawn vs crumbled pf cakes it will give you far more inoculation points which in turn will make your bulk colonize faster which lowers contamination rates
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mycohumanity
Explorer


Registered: 06/21/13
Posts: 58
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Re: Bulk substrate tub tips/teks? [Re: Icepic]
#18816866 - 09/08/13 09:32 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icepic said: I highly recommend you use grain as spawn vs crumbled pf cakes
^ What he said. Rye berries are the way to go imo.
-------------------- Stuff & Things
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DOJOLOACH
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Re: Bulk substrate tub tips/teks? [Re: mycohumanity]
#18818011 - 09/09/13 07:22 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Alright, spawn is the material I knock up with mycelium from what I am understanding. I'll look into the grain option. I'm going to order the compost today.
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Stromrider
This must be the place



Registered: 06/02/13
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Re: Bulk substrate tub tips/teks? [Re: DOJOLOACH]
#18818061 - 09/09/13 07:46 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I have heard good things about M.H.C's product. If you can afford it.
Hey man check this out: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17897163#17897163
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Stromrider
This must be the place



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Re: Bulk substrate tub tips/teks? [Re: DOJOLOACH]
#18818067 - 09/09/13 07:48 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
DOJOLOACH said: Alright, spawn is the material I knock up with mycelium from what I am understanding. I'll look into the grain option. I'm going to order the compost today.
Oh and btw you can use wbs or rye berries as spawn. They both work very well. WBS is a little easier to get for a lot of us. There is a tek for preping it in the link I provided
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DOJOLOACH
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Re: Bulk substrate tub tips/teks? [Re: Stromrider]
#18818229 - 09/09/13 09:07 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks for the link, I was actually just looking at some of franks monotub writeups.
So from what I understand the whole point of spawning to a tub is to get a little mycelium growth turn into a lot more, making for a bulk grow when compared to pf tek jars.
Does the depth of my substrate matter? I would want to use the least amount of substrate per tub so I can conserve compost for future grows.
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Stromrider
This must be the place



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Re: Bulk substrate tub tips/teks? [Re: DOJOLOACH]
#18818287 - 09/09/13 09:35 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Most of us use the 66 quart sterilite all clear tubs with latching lid. 3 inches of substrate is the preferred amount. That is about 10 quarts of substrate and 5 to 7 quarts of spawn for the 66 quart tub
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DOJOLOACH
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Re: Bulk substrate tub tips/teks? [Re: Stromrider]
#18819332 - 09/09/13 03:30 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Once I have the substrate fully colonized do I treat it like a SGFC and spray/fan it everyday?
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Stromrider
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Re: Bulk substrate tub tips/teks? [Re: DOJOLOACH]
#18819341 - 09/09/13 03:35 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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DOJOLOACH
Stranger
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Re: Bulk substrate tub tips/teks? [Re: Stromrider]
#18823423 - 09/10/13 01:18 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I just read that whole thread top to bottom. Im using WBS and the monotub instructions he explains. I will probably do smaller tubs (higher quantity) though, I want more than one chance to do it the right way.
I found a mini monotub tek but the author uses lots of small holes instead of 6 larger holes. Im gonna try to do Franks tek just on smaller tubs, hopefully it works well. I'll post up my results/questions as I get them.
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Stromrider
This must be the place


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Re: Bulk substrate tub tips/teks? [Re: DOJOLOACH]
#18823937 - 09/10/13 03:34 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
DOJOLOACH said: I just read that whole thread top to bottom. Im using WBS and the monotub instructions he explains. I will probably do smaller tubs (higher quantity) though, I want more than one chance to do it the right way.
I found a mini monotub tek but the author uses lots of small holes instead of 6 larger holes. Im gonna try to do Franks tek just on smaller tubs, hopefully it works well. I'll post up my results/questions as I get them.
I think it will work just fine. Follow the teks and you'll do fine. I look forward to seeing your progress. Keep us updated. Good luck bud!
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mycohumanity
Explorer


Registered: 06/21/13
Posts: 58
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Re: Bulk substrate tub tips/teks? [Re: DOJOLOACH]
#18825626 - 09/10/13 10:07 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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31 & 33 quart tubs work really well, too. Not shoebox-size mini, but a smaller version which provides massive success while also increasing containment of possible contaminations.
This is the current experiment which has provided success.
- 3 quarts rye grain spawn
- 6.5 quarts of bulk mix
Bulk Mix:
- 1 brick coir
- 2 quarts vermiculite (not the teeny-tiny, finely chopped vermiculite)
- 1 quart gypsum
- 2 tblspn Bone Meal w/ 4-12-0
- 4 tblspn Crushed Oyster Shell
- 1 Gallon + 1.75 cups distilled water (ph adjusted to 6.8)
-------------------- Stuff & Things
Edited by mycohumanity (09/10/13 10:08 PM)
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Mush4Brains
LOOL HACKED!!!

Registered: 07/31/13
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Re: Bulk substrate tub tips/teks? [Re: mycohumanity]
#18825772 - 09/10/13 10:44 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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You definitely do not need a full quart of gypsum, that is a ridiculous amount.
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Bulk substrate tub tips/teks? [Re: Mush4Brains]
#18825782 - 09/10/13 10:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yes, I agree. That is absurd.
Disregard the recommendations for 10% dry weight in gypsum. Disregard all of the percentages for gypsum.
Use a big handful for every brick of coir.
Also, the rest of those additives won't do much IME and distilled water lacks nutrients that tap water provides.
You are definitely reading outdated info. Check out my signature for up-to-date teks for bulk 
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Nice Ol Bud
Apprentice


Registered: 09/11/13
Posts: 162
Loc: Mystical Maze of Mushroom...
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mycohumanity
Explorer


Registered: 06/21/13
Posts: 58
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said: Yes, I agree. That is absurd.
Disregard the recommendations for 10% dry weight in gypsum. Disregard all of the percentages for gypsum.
Use a big handful for every brick of coir.
Also, the rest of those additives won't do much IME and distilled water lacks nutrients that tap water provides.
You are definitely reading outdated info. Check out my signature for up-to-date teks for bulk 

Thanks, Frank. I've been experimenting.
And I had no idea that the 10% gypsum was old, outdated info.
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: I mix about 100 pounds of substrate in my concrete mixer per batch. 1 to 1 1/2 cups of gypsum is plenty for that amount. I used to recommend 10%, but after more experiments I found you can reduce the amount considerably without a reduction in performance. I now use about 1% to 2% by weight. 10% still works well for casing layers, but most members here don't case bulk substrates these days. RR
Edited by mycohumanity (09/11/13 07:09 AM)
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Bulk substrate tub tips/teks? [Re: mycohumanity]
#18827069 - 09/11/13 09:33 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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RR himself has actually talked recently about how he uses less and less gypsum with no loss of performance.
He said recently a small handful for the brick of coir should be plenty.
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Nice Ol Bud
Apprentice


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Posts: 162
Loc: Mystical Maze of Mushroom...
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Hey Frank if you don't mind a noobie asking.. What benefits does the gypsum give the mushys?
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Bulk substrate tub tips/teks? [Re: Nice Ol Bud]
#18827409 - 09/11/13 11:45 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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It is minor nutrient source and acts as a pH buffer.
When the mycelium is digesting your substrate, it naturally swings towards the acid side (which favors molds).
Gypsum helps prevent/delay these swings.
When you add gypsum to your grains, it prevents clumping and also acts a pH buffer, though the latter is not really necessary for grains.
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Nice Ol Bud
Apprentice


Registered: 09/11/13
Posts: 162
Loc: Mystical Maze of Mushroom...
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Awesome. Going in the archive! Thanks again!
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DOJOLOACH
Stranger
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Re: Bulk substrate tub tips/teks? [Re: Nice Ol Bud]
#18827955 - 09/11/13 02:09 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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What is the smallest sized container I can do effectively using this method? It would be nice to work with tubs that are less than 15qts.
Edit: Also, I understand a taller bin with a smaller footprint is desired for better FAE. Is there a ratio? I was thinking about going and measuring a 66qt bin and using the dimension ratios to select an alternate/smaller bin.
Edited by DOJOLOACH (09/11/13 02:12 PM)
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DOJOLOACH
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Re: Bulk substrate tub tips/teks? [Re: DOJOLOACH]
#18832909 - 09/12/13 03:23 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Do you think it's ok to substitute PH up for the gypsum when preparing the WBS?
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



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Re: Bulk substrate tub tips/teks? [Re: DOJOLOACH]
#18832920 - 09/12/13 03:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
DOJOLOACH said: Do you think it's ok to substitute PH up for the gypsum when preparing the WBS?
Gypsum is ph neutral....
And technically neither of those 2 things are needed, but I would add some gypsum...
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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DOJOLOACH
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Re: Bulk substrate tub tips/teks? [Re: PussyFart]
#18832990 - 09/12/13 03:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I was thinking gypsum buffed ph so that contams would be less likely to grow, but alright thanks.
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DOJOLOACH
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Re: Bulk substrate tub tips/teks? [Re: DOJOLOACH]
#18875934 - 09/22/13 01:32 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Okay I have a set of wbs jars waiting to be knocked up. I think I will use a cube syringe so I don't sacrafice my penis envy to bad spawn. I left the wbs to dry in a strainer and on paper towels for 90 minutes or so, but they were still sticky. Any thoughts? I used straight black coffee.
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DOJOLOACH
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Re: Bulk substrate tub tips/teks? [Re: DOJOLOACH]
#18907297 - 09/29/13 02:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Alright so it's been about 10 days since kknocking up the wbs jars. The jars are 4oz. I filled them full. I do not see any signs of growth at all. They are sitting in a dark closet on top of our water heater. It stays in the mid-high 70's and is dark.
I used franks wbs tek and for the wbs I used "parakeet and finch food" I know there is water in there because the wbs was kind of sticky when I put it in the jars.
At the same time I also knocked up 24 brf jars. At this time only 12 of them are showing signs of growth, I used two different strains. Every jar with Albino A+ has started colonizing (12 jars),does a difference in strain cause delayed colonization times?
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spacechildo
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Re: Bulk substrate tub tips/teks? [Re: DOJOLOACH]
#18907447 - 09/29/13 02:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
DOJOLOACH said: Alright so it's been about 10 days since kknocking up the wbs jars. The jars are 4oz. I filled them full. I do not see any signs of growth at all. They are sitting in a dark closet on top of our water heater. It stays in the mid-high 70's and is dark.
I used franks wbs tek and for the wbs I used "parakeet and finch food" I know there is water in there because the wbs was kind of sticky when I put it in the jars.
If the wbs was "kind of sticky" you surely didn't follow franks wbs tek. Or any other tek I've found for grains so far.
They should be dry on the outside, I think this is emphasised pretty much all over. You probably got some nasties growing in there now, post a pic or something
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DOJOLOACH
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Re: Bulk substrate tub tips/teks? [Re: spacechildo]
#18907706 - 09/29/13 04:06 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Stromrider
This must be the place



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Re: Bulk substrate tub tips/teks? [Re: DOJOLOACH]
#18907916 - 09/29/13 05:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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You should have used larger jars and not filled them past 3/4 of the way full. Most of us use qt jars. Some people use pints
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DOJOLOACH
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Re: Bulk substrate tub tips/teks? [Re: Stromrider]
#18908074 - 09/29/13 05:41 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Alright, I have some so I'll do that next. I don't understand why the wbs came out sticky though. It wasn't obnoxiously sticky, but it felt gooey. I used plain dark coffee from Mcdonalds, if it matters. Perhaps I let the wbs simmer too long.
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Stromrider
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Re: Bulk substrate tub tips/teks? [Re: DOJOLOACH]
#18908373 - 09/29/13 06:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
DOJOLOACH said: Alright, I have some so I'll do that next. I don't understand why the wbs came out sticky though. It wasn't obnoxiously sticky, but it felt gooey. I used plain dark coffee from Mcdonalds, if it matters. Perhaps I let the wbs simmer too long.
I soak for 12 to 18 hours and then put it on the stove on high. As soon as it starts to simmer I take it off and pour it in the strainer. I figure it soaks up plenty of water during the soak and I just heat it up to help the external water steam off in the colander. As it sits in the colander I stir it every 10 min or so. After about an hour I take a hair dryer to it to finish drying any leftover external moisture. Works great everytime
Maybe one day when I don't feel so partied out (been a wild weekend) I'll write up my own wbs prep tek
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DOJOLOACH
Stranger
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Re: Bulk substrate tub tips/teks? [Re: Stromrider]
#18915915 - 10/01/13 12:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Alright I'll try it again. if it is still coming out sticky I'm going to let it dry longer with a blow dryer.
I also noticed it's easier to use the strainer to prewash the wbs then put it in a pot for a final wash to remove twigs and other trash.
Edited by DOJOLOACH (10/01/13 12:38 PM)
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DOJOLOACH
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Re: Bulk substrate tub tips/teks? [Re: DOJOLOACH]
#18921843 - 10/02/13 03:15 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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How do I knock up each jar if the syringe doesn't touch the wbs, do I just squirt the spores ontop of the seeds?
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



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Re: Bulk substrate tub tips/teks? [Re: DOJOLOACH]
#18921929 - 10/02/13 03:31 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
DOJOLOACH said: How do I knock up each jar if the syringe doesn't touch the wbs, do I just squirt the spores ontop of the seeds?
yes
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DOJOLOACH
Stranger
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Re: Bulk substrate tub tips/teks? [Re: bodhisatta]
#19086951 - 11/04/13 07:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I have my bulk grow colonizing a 66qt tub right now.
On my first wbs batch I had all but 3 jars get contamed. So I decided to make a tiny container full of eco-earth coconut coir and here it is. Is it ready to put in my fruiting chamber?

On another note, my pf tek jars are coming along much nicer in my new sgfc! I've yielded a dry Oz. off the first flush alone. This may not be a lot but it's a huge improvement over my first sgfc.
UPDATE:
How much longer on this tub? I have condensation around the sides of the tub, is this good?
Edited by DOJOLOACH (11/08/13 03:24 PM)
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DOJOLOACH
Stranger
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Re: Bulk substrate tub tips/teks? [Re: DOJOLOACH]
#19126012 - 11/12/13 12:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Anyone?
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