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Galaxytripper
ExpertNovice

Registered: 09/08/13
Posts: 362
Loc: Pacific NorthWest
Last seen: 5 months, 27 days
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Cake Incubation
#18816440 - 09/08/13 07:28 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Newbie (2nd attempt) trying to do improvised tub-in-tub method, with aquarium heater underneath. Have cakes incubating in darkness,and now at end of week 4. Temp appears good. Colonization good, but looks like the world map, -still a small ocean for mycelium to cross. Getting there, but progress is slowing. One jar of green mold, but rest of (half a dozen) jars are good. Moisture is very obviously getting into inner tub (but jars are inside 2 black bin liners, -not convinced these are moisture-proof either, but not convinced this is necessarily a problem either, but who knows, could be). Re: jar with contam, I put tape over the 4 inoculation holes, but right where I tore off a piece of asking tape, turns out it was just barely covering the hole, and right there, there is green discoloration, not to mention inside, suggesting that's how contam got in. My fault. Lots of questions though. Conflicting reports as to what mycelium needs during incubation stage. On the one hand, we have to protect mycelium from contam, and presumably that's why we have lids, right? Yet, I hear also, hey, mycelium needs oxygen to thrive? How is it going to thrive without exposing jars to the air? Do we uncover those holes? Does the vermiculite let oxygen in but keep contam out? If we expose the jars to air, sure, they get oxygen, but also contam. If we make lid air-tight, jar is safe from contam, but safe from getting any oxygen either? What's the truth about what the mycelium needs? How do we give it what it needs, and also prevent bad things?
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 17 days, 14 hours
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What temps are you incubating at?
What kind of tape are you putting over the holes?
Anything not white needs to be thrown away.
Jars/bags/tubs/trays should colonize @ room temperature getting ambient/indirect light.
Main pinning triggers are full colonization, FAE and Evaporation off of the substrate.
Light is a secondary pinning trigger. For tropical species temperature is not a pinning factor.
P. Cubensis are a tropical species. You could colonize at 70F and fruit at 80F with great results.
Light has been proven beneficial during all stages of mycellium growth. Mushrooms like mammals have a circadian rhythm.
You want ambient/indirect light(on a 12/12 schedule preferably) for colonization and consolidation.
You want direct/intense 6500K light on a 12/12 schedule for fruiting.
Optimal temps are mid 70s throughout the whole grow, but anywhere from 65F-80F is acceptable.
Incubation is outdated/uneeded unless temps in the range stated above cannot be kept.
The inside of the jar is always a few degrees warmer than the outside because the mycellium produces heat..mycellium tends to stall at temps above 86F , and contams thrive.
Fruiting at cooler temps tends to produce denser, meatier fruits, while fruiting at higher temps will often produce hollow, less dense stems.
The dry verm layer is the contam barrier you are wondering about, not the lid.
The holes remain open and the dry verm layer exposed for GE.
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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Galaxytripper
ExpertNovice


Registered: 09/08/13
Posts: 362
Loc: Pacific NorthWest
Last seen: 5 months, 27 days
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Re: Cake Incubation [Re: PussyFart]
#18820376 - 09/09/13 07:40 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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What temps are you incubating at? A. 86 F
What kind of tape are you putting over the holes? A. Masking tape (painters)
In any of my comments to your kind posts, I don't mean to imply that you are necessarily wrong in anything you have said, but rather that, most of it flies in the face of pretty much anything and everything I have read, from both amateur and professional (Paul Stamets) alike. And this is like where everything you know is wrong. So this leaves me in a state of confusion. I don't know whether I'm coming or going now.
'Jars/bags/tubs/trays should colonize @ room temperature getting ambient/indirect light.'
This is the reversal of everything I thought I knew. That is, that during the colonization process,versus fruting, the cakes remain in darkness, just as mycelium underground does naturally. To be clear, are you now saying that darkness is un-necessary during colonization ??? (Thought I was using enough information sources here).
'Light is a secondary pinning trigger'.
Doesn't this statement harmonize with the notion of colonization taking place during darkness, otherwise there would be no distinction between colonization and fruiting? If you didn't keep the cakes in darkness, against what, exactly, would light be a 'secondary trigger?
'Light has been proven beneficial during all stages of mycellium growth. Mushrooms like mammals have a circadian rhythm'.
Another amazing statement that no-one ever bothered to mention to me in their expositions.
'Cubensis are a tropical species. You could colonize at 70F and fruit at 80F with great results'.
This contradicts what I've read generally about the different temperatures to be pursued in the different stages: higher temperatures during colonization (86F acc. to P. Stamets) and lower during fruiting (10 degrees or so lower, with some latitude on the range). Or are you just talking here about the wild possibilities with this type of mushroom?
'You want direct/intense 6500K light on a 12/12 schedule for fruiting'.
Am I unlikely to get pinning happening if I don't get one of these grow lamps? Standard technique talks just about indirect sunlight. (admittedly my first grow attempt bombed, but I also know I wasn't maintaining the temps indicated).
'Incubation is outdated/uneeded unless temps in the range stated above cannot be kept'.
So I can now just skip incubation? So by 'outdated', you mean that the rest of the idiot population was following a process that nobody every needed to in the first place…?
'The holes remain open and the dry verm layer exposed for GE'. Not sure what GE is.
Don't get the wrong idea. I appreciate your input, but can you understand how disconcerting it is, to have believed x, y, and z, for an appreciable time, then someone comes along and shoots up all your working assumptions (hey, I didn't make this shit up)from the ground up? Like being told your religion is all wrong and here's why…
Thanks again for you time.
GalaxyTripper.
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Stromrider
This must be the place


Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 7,326
Loc: Dept of know what I'm say...
Last seen: 19 hours, 2 minutes
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You have been reading outdated info. What hacker told you is correct
GE is gas exchange. Take the tape off and colonization will resume. Next time leave it off the whole time.
You can incubate if you want. Most of us do not. Don't incubate over 80
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 17 days, 14 hours
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Masking tape is not breathable, you are suffocating the jars....
Quote:
Galaxytripper said: 'Light is a secondary pinning trigger'.
Doesn't this statement harmonize with the notion of colonization taking place during darkness, otherwise there would be no distinction between colonization and fruiting? If you didn't keep the cakes in darkness, against what, exactly, would light be a 'secondary trigger?
Because there is a difference between ambient/indirect light and intense/direct light....
Quote:
Galaxytripper said: 'Jars/bags/tubs/trays should colonize @ room temperature getting ambient/indirect light.'
This is the reversal of everything I thought I knew. That is, that during the colonization process,versus fruting, the cakes remain in darkness, just as mycelium underground does naturally. To be clear, are you now saying that darkness is un-necessary during colonization ??? (Thought I was using enough information sources here).
Yes.
Quote:
Galaxytripper said: 'Cubensis are a tropical species. You could colonize at 70F and fruit at 80F with great results'.
This contradicts what I've read generally about the different temperatures to be pursued in the different stages: higher temperatures during colonization (86F acc. to P. Stamets) and lower during fruiting (10 degrees or so lower, with some latitude on the range). Or are you just talking here about the wild possibilities with this type of mushroom?
Stamets was wrong about a lot of things in the books he wrote 30 years ago....
Quote:
Galaxytripper said: 'You want direct/intense 6500K light on a 12/12 schedule for fruiting'.
Am I unlikely to get pinning happening if I don't get one of these grow lamps? Standard technique talks just about indirect sunlight. (admittedly my first grow attempt bombed, but I also know I wasn't maintaining the temps indicated).
They will pin and fruit in complete darkness, but everything is healthier and more plentiful when given the right light.
Quote:
Galaxytripper said: 'Incubation is outdated/uneeded unless temps in the range stated above cannot be kept'.
So I can now just skip incubation? So by 'outdated', you mean that the rest of the idiot population was following a process that nobody every needed to in the first place…?
Basically....room temp buddy....
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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Sockadin



Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 7,244
Last seen: 2 months, 21 days
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Re: Cake Incubation [Re: PussyFart]
#18820535 - 09/09/13 08:08 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Unless your on krypton or in the artic, don't worry about colonization temps. There is a ton of old info on this website that is slowly being removed. My first grow back in 2005 used a TIT incubator, was not the best thing.
70-80 is fine, just like Notahacker and psillyshroomer pointed out. These guys know their shit and have helped me brush up on the do's and do not's on the common PF. I usually grow once a year and have watched the consensus change over almost 8 years.
TiT's are only useful if you live in cold climates. Most PF jars will create their own heat during colonization.
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Stromrider
This must be the place


Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 7,326
Loc: Dept of know what I'm say...
Last seen: 19 hours, 2 minutes
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Re: Cake Incubation [Re: Sockadin]
#18820568 - 09/09/13 08:14 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Tits are useful in any climate. Jars will colonize quicker at a steady 80 degree but not quick enough to matter that much. To most of us it is just one less thing to worry with
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Galaxytripper
ExpertNovice


Registered: 09/08/13
Posts: 362
Loc: Pacific NorthWest
Last seen: 5 months, 27 days
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Wow. Thanks for the illumination guys. Appreciated....
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