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mason man
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Registered: 06/01/13
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coir contam risk during colonization?
#18815756 - 09/08/13 04:02 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hi all,
Started a tub, spawned 4 qts wbs to pasteurized coir. Colonization seems to be happening at a good pace, everything seems alright.
I've seen some clashing views against how resistant coir is to contamination. Now I know you're not supposed to open the lid before full colonization because it will cause early pinning, too much FAE and the sort. But I've heard others talk about it's chance to increase contamination rate by opening the lid early (not that I'm jumping out of my seat to open the lid or anything).
Wouldn't the partially colonized coir still be just as contamination resistant (if not more due the the myceliums ability to fend for itself) part way through colonization as it was when you're mixing everything together? If I understand correctly, being 100% sterile isn't absolutely necessary during the spawn run, as long as you're using common sense to lower contam risk.
Also, aren't most lids on monotubs not 100% air tight? I mean, i know they make specific ones to be airtight... but otherwise, isn't FAE happening during colonization anyways?
I'm ultimately asking just for a better understanding of things.
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cmori3
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Registered: 12/26/11
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Re: coir contam risk during colonization? [Re: mason man]
#18815844 - 09/08/13 04:32 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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If it is still hot when you are mixing everything together, it will be more resistant to bacterial attacks
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Blake_Shroom
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Re: coir contam risk during colonization? [Re: cmori3]
#18815852 - 09/08/13 04:36 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Coir is very contam resistant. Make sure u properly pastuerize 
If its pin king before 100% colonization, your spawn was bad and there's a contam. Your mycelium is trying to fruit in order to get its spore out
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mason man
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Registered: 06/01/13
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Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
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Re: coir contam risk during colonization? [Re: Blake_Shroom]
#18815910 - 09/08/13 04:53 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
cmori3 said: If it is still hot when you are mixing everything together, it will be more resistant to bacterial attacks
If it's hot while mixing, isn't that bad for the spawn? I always understood it needs to be relatively cool (80 or so F).
Quote:
Blake_Shroom said: Coir is very contam resistant. Make sure u properly pastuerize 
If its pin king before 100% colonization, your spawn was bad and there's a contam. Your mycelium is trying to fruit in order to get its spore out
I used Damion5050's tek for pasteurizing. I've seen mixed opinions on his tek as well... some claim they always have contams from his tek, others say it's flawless.
Either way, to confirm my understanding, opening the lid shouldn't really cause that much of a risk for contams, rather if it contams, then something went wrong during setup or pasteurization.
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
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Re: coir contam risk during colonization? [Re: mason man]
#18815919 - 09/08/13 04:55 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
mason man said: Either way, to confirm my understanding, opening the lid shouldn't really cause that much of a risk for contams, rather if it contams, then something went wrong during setup or pasteurization.
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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Blake_Shroom
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Re: coir contam risk during colonization? [Re: PussyFart]
#18815945 - 09/08/13 05:04 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yup. Next time properly pastuerize it. You won't regret the extra time spent doing it
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Trippy_Penguin



Registered: 03/18/12
Posts: 624
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Re: coir contam risk during colonization? [Re: cmori3]
#18815958 - 09/08/13 05:07 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
cmori3 said:
If it is still hot when you are mixing everything together, it will be more resistant to bacterial attacks
Properly pasteurized substrate is resistant anyways. If it's too hot to stick my hands in, my grain probably doesn't wanna be there either.
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cmori3
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Re: coir contam risk during colonization? [Re: Trippy_Penguin]
#18816046 - 09/08/13 05:32 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah I think there is some truth to what I said (hot substrate will kill spores etc and will damage but not kill the colonized grain, this is the same principle that operates in RR's 'hot pour' method) but it is not really relevant to the question here. Why do you say properly pasteurized substrate is more resistant? My understanding is that pasteurization kills the bacterial spores that are present, but if you expose the substrate to spores AFTER pasteurization, they will attack it just the same as spores that were there BEFORE pasteurization would have done.
This relates back to the question of opening the lid partway through colonization. My opinion would be that this is a bad idea as it provides an opportunity for bacterial attack. If you are saying partly colonized substrate is more able to defend itself I would agree, but I would still think that bacteria can easily settle on any uncolonized section of substrate and take hold.
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Blake_Shroom
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Re: coir contam risk during colonization? [Re: cmori3]
#18816067 - 09/08/13 05:38 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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If its properly pastuerized, then opening for just a tad and barely peeking in (obviously don't take the whole lid off, just crack it to peek in) should be fine. If properly pastuerized, substrate should be resistant for at least 2 weeks. Coir will be resistant for much longer
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
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Re: coir contam risk during colonization? [Re: Blake_Shroom]
#18816079 - 09/08/13 05:41 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Blake_Shroom said: If its properly pastuerized, then opening for just a tad and barely peeking in (obviously don't take the whole lid off, just crack it to peek in) should be fine. If properly pastuerized, substrate should be resistant for at least 2 weeks. Coir will be resistant for much longer
Not to mention that if it was spawned in open air, there are already millions of contams mixed into the substrate.
Thinking opening the tub for a second is going to contam your project is just silly.
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Re: coir contam risk during colonization? [Re: PussyFart]
#18816202 - 09/08/13 06:16 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Coir is contam resistant, but not contam proof.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18789295#18789295
Quote:
FrankHorrigan said: Pasteurization kills mold spores and live molds in your substrate. It also allows thermophilic (heat-loving) bacteria to colonize your substrate. This thermophilic bacteria is "good" bacteria. It prevents mold spores from germinating and "bad" bacteria from growing but allows your healthy culture to rip through it.
Once the jars are removed from the pasteurization bath to cool this "good" bacteria takes over the rest of the substrate. It gets even better hold on it when you mix your spawn and substrate together.
Problems with pasteurizing are usually due to temps that are too hot at the core of the substrate. Problems with molds on a properly pasteurized substrate is usually due to molds "hiding" and hitching a ride with your culture.
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