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ShroomPuncher
The FunGuy



Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 988
Loc: Mother Earth
Last seen: 7 months, 11 days
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Re: Psilocybe Cubensis B+ (First grow) [Re: PussyFart]
#18811279 - 09/07/13 11:40 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Notahacker420 said:
Quote:
tlien said: I don't think smelling the jars is a good idea, because I assume it involves opening the lids, which exposes them to contamination.
Well you don't open them to smell until they are fully colonized.
In some cases you can smell it thru the holes in the lid.
Which is what I did and even then, it smells overwhelmingly nasty. The one is growing still but has a little bit of a sour smell. Not gonna count it out yet and I'm gonna shoot up some more Monday but with a blank this time and maybe catch where I screwed up this time.
When sterilizing bad jars, do you steam sterilize them in the same way you do after packing the substrate?
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ShroomPuncher
The FunGuy



Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 988
Loc: Mother Earth
Last seen: 7 months, 11 days
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Re: Psilocybe Cubensis B+ (First grow) [Re: ShroomPuncher]
#18811502 - 09/07/13 12:51 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Looking healthy?

compared to yesterday, it's growing a little.
Here's yesterday
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shroomlowie



Registered: 07/12/13
Posts: 265
Last seen: 7 months, 21 days
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Re: Psilocybe Cubensis B+ (First grow) [Re: ShroomPuncher]
#18811534 - 09/07/13 01:01 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
ShroomPuncher said: I'm gonna start my log here. For some reason, it won't let me post in the actual grow log forum. Please, criticize the shit out of me if necessary. I don't wanna ruin my first grow. All suggestions are welcome.
8/26
Woke up, re-watched the BRF videos, re-read some useful info and decided to start.
Even though it's not necessary, I used Lysol wipes to sanitize the part of the kitchen I'd be using. Punched holes in the lid jars (1/2 pint, wide mouth), and doing it wrong, some of them dented in a little which concerned me about getting leaks when steam sterilizing. I'll just wrap extra good with aluminum foil.
Made the substrate. 2 cups verm, 1 cup water. Mixed. Added 1 cup BRF. Mixed. A little chunky but the chunks break easy. Filled 4 jars, wiped moisture / substrate off the 1/2 inch or so off the top of the jar. Everything's not perfectly level. I'm sure this will be fine? 
Ran out of substrate. I'm gonna mix a little bit more and add a couple jars to the mix out of the extra I have. Maybe 6-7 total jars.
Getting back to work. Will update soon while sterilizing. Going to elevate the jars approx. 1/2 inch from the water (using lids and foil), then boil for 90 minutes, checking for steam ever so often.
Jars filled up
 
I ran out of lids and found some old ones but the tops seemed to have mold or rust? The rings themselves though had nothing on them. Still, I'm boiling them then wiping them with alcohol before putting them in the pot to sterilize with the jars. I'm Howard Hughes up in here. Nothing can get too clean.

6:02 PM- 90 minutes is up for steam sterilizing. Added an extra 15 to make up for all the times I checked the lid. Only added extra water once. Going to let cool until tomorrow morning and then sterilize the workspace and continue with inoculations.
8/27
9:33 AM- Woke up and about to start cleaning.
12:00P PM - Got done inoculating jars. Did 2 outside SAB and the rest inside. Hoping everything was sterile enough. Now to wait.
9/6
Jars had a nasty odor and dark spots in some of them. Only 1 has any signs of growth. I've moved the 6 smelly jars elsewhere. 3 in one room, 3 in another.
 
9/7
The one jar seems to be slowly moving along. The temp is lower than it should be so I'ma try to get a heater in here.

Bookmarked for future reference as I'm planning on attempting to grow maybe B+ soon, hope it turns out for the best dude
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tlien


Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 378
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Re: Psilocybe Cubensis B+ (First grow) [Re: ShroomPuncher]
#18812067 - 09/07/13 04:03 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
ShroomPuncher said: Looking healthy?

compared to yesterday, it's growing a little.
Here's yesterday

Like I said, it's hard to tell from your photos, what you need to do is get a magnifier glass and look at the growth.
If it's chaotic, it's mold. If it's radiating outwards from a point, like the spokes of a bicycle wheel, it's mycelium.
I can't tell from the pics.
Perhaps you can tell if you get real close and just see for yourself.
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ShroomPuncher
The FunGuy



Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 988
Loc: Mother Earth
Last seen: 7 months, 11 days
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Re: Psilocybe Cubensis B+ (First grow) [Re: tlien]
#18812416 - 09/07/13 06:04 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think I have a contam in it anyways. From what you described, the white growth is mycelium but I've noticed a very subtle, light orangeish spot near the top of the jar right below the dry vermiculite.
I don't see how I could have 100% failure? 6 not colonizing w/ nasty odor and dry spots and 1 with another possible contam.
Checking back on the six vectors of contamination in Paul Stamets' book.
1) The cultivator - I showered, brushed my teeth, and wore nitrile gloves, tyvec sleeves, and a dust mask, all of which I rubbed 70% iso alcohol on.
2) The air - I used lyson disinfectant spray pretty heavily and multiple times in the area.
3) The media - I steam sterilized the substrate for a little over 90 minutes. The moisture content wasn't altered but I did open the lid more times than necessary.. I don't think that's the issue, though.
4) The tools - I iso'ed everything then flame sterilized the needle between jars. Like I said before, the needle wasn't consistently red hot, but I feel like anything would've been destroyed. I used a paper towel and wiped the needle between jars, but BEFORE flame sterilizing.
5) The inoculum - This is why I should've set up a blank jar to see if it got contaminated without even being inoculated. Maybe it was a bad syringe? I got it from a reputable vendor (shroomery sponsor)
6) Mobile contamination units - Nothing / no one entered the work area during inoculation procedures.
So judging by that, I have no clue. Maybe I didn't light the syringe enough? Maybe it was the syringe or paranoid sterilization that led me to fiddle with stuff to much and over-clean? I'll post an update again of the jars tomorrow. 2 of the ones I moved have small, mycelium-like dots that have recently developed but due to the odor, I'm not getting excited. Probably just a mold.
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Kjetterfaen
Strangler

Registered: 07/21/13
Posts: 495
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Re: Psilocybe Cubensis B+ (First grow) [Re: ShroomPuncher]
#18812740 - 09/07/13 07:38 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Seeing as it is two different (likely) contams, maybe the one near the vermiculite barrier was caused by the verm barrier being moved around during the time you impatiently awaited growth? The other ones seem to be right on the inoculation spots, so I guess those were probably introduced by the needle or the spore solution..
No idea where the contam was picked up in the first place; you seem to have been pretty thourough... with the exception of the lack of SAB. Do you live in a particularly mold-prone house or area? Any factors like that?
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ShroomPuncher
The FunGuy



Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 988
Loc: Mother Earth
Last seen: 7 months, 11 days
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Re: Psilocybe Cubensis B+ (First grow) [Re: Kjetterfaen]
#18812784 - 09/07/13 07:50 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kjetterfaen said: Seeing as it is two different (likely) contams, maybe the one near the vermiculite barrier was caused by the verm barrier being moved around during the time you impatiently awaited growth? The other ones seem to be right on the inoculation spots, so I guess those were probably introduced by the needle or the spore solution..
No idea where the contam was picked up in the first place; you seem to have been pretty thourough... with the exception of the lack of SAB. Do you live in a particularly mold-prone house or area? Any factors like that?
I forgot to say that I did use an SAB, which I thoroughly cleaned beforehand with bleach and then swabbed the arm holes with alcohol. And there is mold in my house but the area I inoculated wasn't quite that bad. I mean I sterilized the hell out of the room but Monday, I'm gonna use the rest of my spores and nocc up 2 more jars but this time include a blank and see what happens.
Has anyone here ever had sour smelling jars that they managed to salvage? I'm seeing growth in a few of them. It's white, but I'm not sure if it's the white I'm looking for.
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 1 month, 10 days
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Re: Psilocybe Cubensis B+ (First grow) [Re: ShroomPuncher]
#18812795 - 09/07/13 07:53 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
ShroomPuncher said: I mean I sterilized the hell out of the room
No you didn't, that would be impossible.
Sanitized maybe....but not sterilized....not that anything needs to be sterile, or even sanitary for that matter when working in a SAB....it just has to provide a still enough environment so that all the mold in the world would not matter.
Better sterile technique is needed my son....
Quote:
ShroomPuncher said: Has anyone here ever had sour smelling jars that they managed to salvage?
No...
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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Kjetterfaen
Strangler

Registered: 07/21/13
Posts: 495
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Re: Psilocybe Cubensis B+ (First grow) [Re: ShroomPuncher]
#18812808 - 09/07/13 07:55 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Even if possible I wouldn't risk trying to salvage it as a beginner myself. I mean, we don't even know what specifically is wrong with them.. I suppose you could try fruiting them outside somewhere?
Now this might be a stupid suggestion, but there isn't any chance you can knock up a jar at someone elses place is there? I'm thinking eliminate your house entirely and see what the result is..?
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 1 month, 10 days
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Re: Psilocybe Cubensis B+ (First grow) [Re: Kjetterfaen]
#18812823 - 09/07/13 07:59 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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It should not matter where he knocks up the jars.....hell open air is fine if he is quick...
Flame the needle until red hot, then exponge a drop or 2 to cool the needle, then immediately inoculate....simple....
Do this in a SAB for maximum safety....not the flaming part of course...do that outside the box...
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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Kjetterfaen
Strangler

Registered: 07/21/13
Posts: 495
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Re: Psilocybe Cubensis B+ (First grow) [Re: PussyFart]
#18812860 - 09/07/13 08:09 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Just thinking "one less factor" 
But yeah, the steps Hacker listed there is more or less what I followed myself. Add to that some normal soap and water action (showered and made sure my house was relatively clean (which was sorely needed anyway)) and the gloves and mask and you got most of my precautions.
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ShroomPuncher
The FunGuy



Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 988
Loc: Mother Earth
Last seen: 7 months, 11 days
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Re: Psilocybe Cubensis B+ (First grow) [Re: PussyFart]
#18812912 - 09/07/13 08:26 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Notahacker420 said:
Quote:
ShroomPuncher said: I mean I sterilized the hell out of the room
No you didn't, that would be impossible.
Sanitized maybe....but not sterilized....not that anything needs to be sterile, or even sanitary for that matter when working in a SAB....it just has to provide a still enough environment so that all the mold in the world would not matter.
Better sterile technique is needed my son....
Quote:
ShroomPuncher said: Has anyone here ever had sour smelling jars that they managed to salvage?
No...
Well, then I sanitized the hell out of it. And I'm thinking it was the needle. I just had a few moments where I wasn't as confident as the other procedures. I'm definitely gonna use my SAB again but find another way to flame sterilize my needle rather than holding a lighter with my shaky ass hands. And I like the recommendation of letting a few drops go out before inoculating. Last time, I'm assuming from the heat, you could hear the spore water spurting and every now and then it would shoot a little water out.
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Disclaimer: I in no way engage in violent acts against mushrooms, nor do I support or advocate such behavior.
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Kjetterfaen
Strangler

Registered: 07/21/13
Posts: 495
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Re: Psilocybe Cubensis B+ (First grow) [Re: ShroomPuncher]
#18812927 - 09/07/13 08:34 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hey, on that note I want to tack on a question... I have heard using butane flames are inadvisable, and that only clean burning alcohol should be used. Why is this? Is it all down to sooty residue or is there some other reason? Is it even a real concern?
Personally I use an alcohol lamp and denatured alcohol (cheap and easy, and possible improvise if one can't be procured otherwise), you might want to give that a shot ShroomPuncher - for some more controlled flaming, regardless of the butane/alcohol thing.
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heratogwea



Registered: 05/05/11
Posts: 607
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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Re: Psilocybe Cubensis B+ (First grow) [Re: Kjetterfaen]
#18812946 - 09/07/13 08:38 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kjetterfaen said: Hey, on that note I want to tack on a question... I have heard using butane flames are inadvisable, and that only clean burning alcohol should be used. Why is this? Is it all down to sooty residue or is there some other reason? Is it even a real concern?
Personally I use an alcohol lamp and denatured alcohol (cheap and easy, and possible improvise if one can't be procured otherwise), you might want to give that a shot ShroomPuncher - for some more controlled flaming, regardless of the butane/alcohol thing.
I used a bic lighter and had no problems  I also wiped with alcohol after each burn.
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ShroomPuncher
The FunGuy



Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 988
Loc: Mother Earth
Last seen: 7 months, 11 days
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Re: Psilocybe Cubensis B+ (First grow) [Re: heratogwea]
#18812949 - 09/07/13 08:40 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Good thought, Kjetterfaen. I'm gonna look into making a 'survival alcohol lamp'. I think my problem was the way I was using the flame. A little inconsistent, slow, etc. But I definitely got the needle pretty dirty when I started using a candle.
-------------------- Hunting Psillies? Want a sig or avatar made? Message me. [Prints in exchange would be nice, but not required]
Disclaimer: I in no way engage in violent acts against mushrooms, nor do I support or advocate such behavior.
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Kjetterfaen
Strangler

Registered: 07/21/13
Posts: 495
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Re: Psilocybe Cubensis B+ (First grow) [Re: ShroomPuncher]
#18812955 - 09/07/13 08:43 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Mmm, glyceryl ester.
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tlien


Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 378
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Re: Psilocybe Cubensis B+ (First grow) [Re: Kjetterfaen]
#18814037 - 09/08/13 04:31 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Wow, you went to great lengths trying to avoid this... hmm.
Perhaps the contents of the syringe was contaminated?
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Sockadin



Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 7,244
Last seen: 3 months, 14 days
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Re: Psilocybe Cubensis B+ (First grow) [Re: ShroomPuncher]
#18814156 - 09/08/13 07:14 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
ShroomPuncher said: I'm gonna start my log here. For some reason, it won't let me post in the actual grow log forum. Please, criticize the shit out of me if necessary. I don't wanna ruin my first grow. All suggestions are welcome.
8/26
Woke up, re-watched the BRF videos, re-read some useful info and decided to start.
Even though it's not necessary, I used Lysol wipes to sanitize the part of the kitchen I'd be using. Punched holes in the lid jars (1/2 pint, wide mouth), and doing it wrong, some of them dented in a little which concerned me about getting leaks when steam sterilizing. I'll just wrap extra good with aluminum foil.
Made the substrate. 2 cups verm, 1 cup water. Mixed. Added 1 cup BRF. Mixed. A little chunky but the chunks break easy. Filled 4 jars, wiped moisture / substrate off the 1/2 inch or so off the top of the jar. Everything's not perfectly level. I'm sure this will be fine? 
Ran out of substrate. I'm gonna mix a little bit more and add a couple jars to the mix out of the extra I have. Maybe 6-7 total jars.
Getting back to work. Will update soon while sterilizing. Going to elevate the jars approx. 1/2 inch from the water (using lids and foil), then boil for 90 minutes, checking for steam ever so often.
Jars filled up
 
I ran out of lids and found some old ones but the tops seemed to have mold or rust? The rings themselves though had nothing on them. Still, I'm boiling them then wiping them with alcohol before putting them in the pot to sterilize with the jars. I'm Howard Hughes up in here. Nothing can get too clean.

6:02 PM- 90 minutes is up for steam sterilizing. Added an extra 15 to make up for all the times I checked the lid. Only added extra water once. Going to let cool until tomorrow morning and then sterilize the workspace and continue with inoculations.
8/27
9:33 AM- Woke up and about to start cleaning.
12:00P PM - Got done inoculating jars. Did 2 outside SAB and the rest inside. Hoping everything was sterile enough. Now to wait.
9/6
Jars had a nasty odor and dark spots in some of them. Only 1 has any signs of growth. I've moved the 6 smelly jars elsewhere. 3 in one room, 3 in another.
 
9/7
The one jar seems to be slowly moving along. The temp is lower than it should be so I'ma try to get a heater in here.

Ok I see where you sterilized your jars, but did you sterilize your substrate? I have closely read every post on this thread, and maybe I am missing it. Were does it say you pressure cooked the jars with the substrate mixed in it?
Most Likely if you did PC the jars with Substrate, it was the dents. When I prep my jars I flip the lid upside down, drill my holes then flip them the correct direction when I am ready to fill them. This way your holes are aimed up, and any moisture/steam that gets inside the foil will not condensate on the lids and run into your "dry verm" barrier.
I just did 24 jars, 4 B+ with 100% colonization in 9 days. Always make your Substrate on the dry side. To much moisture will mean contamination. We all wish you the best of luck on your next Grow.
Also, I know I shouldn't admit this, but I inoculated with out a SAB and I only flame the needle between jars, not between holes. Im probably the least sterile person on this forum and usually get amazing results. I'll post some pictures soon.
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Stromrider
This must be the place



Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 7,338
Loc: Dept of know what I'm say...
Last seen: 11 hours, 29 minutes
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Re: Psilocybe Cubensis B+ (First grow) [Re: Sockadin]
#18814195 - 09/08/13 07:33 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I use a propane torch. Works great. Butane works too
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ShroomPuncher
The FunGuy



Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 988
Loc: Mother Earth
Last seen: 7 months, 11 days
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Re: Psilocybe Cubensis B+ (First grow) [Re: Sockadin]
#18815143 - 09/08/13 12:58 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sockadin said:
Quote:
ShroomPuncher said: I'm gonna start my log here. For some reason, it won't let me post in the actual grow log forum. Please, criticize the shit out of me if necessary. I don't wanna ruin my first grow. All suggestions are welcome.
8/26
Woke up, re-watched the BRF videos, re-read some useful info and decided to start.
Even though it's not necessary, I used Lysol wipes to sanitize the part of the kitchen I'd be using. Punched holes in the lid jars (1/2 pint, wide mouth), and doing it wrong, some of them dented in a little which concerned me about getting leaks when steam sterilizing. I'll just wrap extra good with aluminum foil.
Made the substrate. 2 cups verm, 1 cup water. Mixed. Added 1 cup BRF. Mixed. A little chunky but the chunks break easy. Filled 4 jars, wiped moisture / substrate off the 1/2 inch or so off the top of the jar. Everything's not perfectly level. I'm sure this will be fine? 
Ran out of substrate. I'm gonna mix a little bit more and add a couple jars to the mix out of the extra I have. Maybe 6-7 total jars.
Getting back to work. Will update soon while sterilizing. Going to elevate the jars approx. 1/2 inch from the water (using lids and foil), then boil for 90 minutes, checking for steam ever so often.
Jars filled up
 
I ran out of lids and found some old ones but the tops seemed to have mold or rust? The rings themselves though had nothing on them. Still, I'm boiling them then wiping them with alcohol before putting them in the pot to sterilize with the jars. I'm Howard Hughes up in here. Nothing can get too clean.

6:02 PM- 90 minutes is up for steam sterilizing. Added an extra 15 to make up for all the times I checked the lid. Only added extra water once. Going to let cool until tomorrow morning and then sterilize the workspace and continue with inoculations.
8/27
9:33 AM- Woke up and about to start cleaning.
12:00P PM - Got done inoculating jars. Did 2 outside SAB and the rest inside. Hoping everything was sterile enough. Now to wait.
9/6
Jars had a nasty odor and dark spots in some of them. Only 1 has any signs of growth. I've moved the 6 smelly jars elsewhere. 3 in one room, 3 in another.
 
9/7
The one jar seems to be slowly moving along. The temp is lower than it should be so I'ma try to get a heater in here.

Ok I see where you sterilized your jars, but did you sterilize your substrate? I have closely read every post on this thread, and maybe I am missing it. Were does it say you pressure cooked the jars with the substrate mixed in it?
Most Likely if you did PC the jars with Substrate, it was the dents. When I prep my jars I flip the lid upside down, drill my holes then flip them the correct direction when I am ready to fill them. This way your holes are aimed up, and any moisture/steam that gets inside the foil will not condensate on the lids and run into your "dry verm" barrier.
I just did 24 jars, 4 B+ with 100% colonization in 9 days. Always make your Substrate on the dry side. To much moisture will mean contamination. We all wish you the best of luck on your next Grow.
Also, I know I shouldn't admit this, but I inoculated with out a SAB and I only flame the needle between jars, not between holes. Im probably the least sterile person on this forum and usually get amazing results. I'll post some pictures soon.
Good point about drilling holes. And I steam sterilized them in a pot for 90 minutes. One of the jars has really taken off today but it has a orange tinge in it. I'll post pics soon!
-------------------- Hunting Psillies? Want a sig or avatar made? Message me. [Prints in exchange would be nice, but not required]
Disclaimer: I in no way engage in violent acts against mushrooms, nor do I support or advocate such behavior.
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