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Shahal Rainrix
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Registered: 09/07/13
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Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info)
#18811593 - 09/07/13 01:23 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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What I need to know is what shrooms feed on the most so I can make a more powerful substrate. Like if shrooms need carbs, how badly? A list of most needed to least needed would be a big help.
Also, is it possible to feed them with powered and liquid supplements? If that is possible with powers and misters? If I could add those to the substrate when mixing as well as later, topically, could I get a larger or longer lasting flush?
If people would test this for me,I'd be grateful.
NOTE: I am not looking for other peoples substrate blends. I want to make my own with the richest ingredients in order to increase the number of shrooms. This way I can research nutritional values and serving sizes to make my own blend.
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Stromrider
This must be the place


Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 7,326
Loc: Dept of know what I'm say...
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Coco coir mixed with vermiculite works great and is super easy.
Poo is said to perform better but I have never used it since coir works so good for cubes and is so simple
My advice is if you want better performance think more about genetics and less about substrate blends
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Shahal Rainrix
Stranger
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: Stromrider]
#18820554 - 09/09/13 08:12 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
psillyshroomer said: Coco coir mixed with vermiculite works great and is super easy.
Poo is said to perform better but I have never used it since coir works so good for cubes and is so simple
My advice is if you want better performance think more about genetics and less about substrate blends
WoW, thanks for ignoring what I said and going ahead with posting what I said I didn't want.
You answered the title of this thread but not the post. I'm not looking for performance, I'm looking for yield. There was a study on substrate in 2006 that found substrate effects yield. Performance can be change through strain selection as well as yield.
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Hammburgler
Stranger


Registered: 08/13/13
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Horse Poo and coir are 2 things a lot of people use. They are great fpr performance.
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Stromrider
This must be the place


Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 7,326
Loc: Dept of know what I'm say...
Last seen: 18 hours, 33 minutes
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Quote:
Shahal Rainrix said:
Quote:
psillyshroomer said: Coco coir mixed with vermiculite works great and is super easy.
Poo is said to perform better but I have never used it since coir works so good for cubes and is so simple
My advice is if you want better performance think more about genetics and less about substrate blends
WoW, thanks for ignoring what I said and going ahead with posting what I said I didn't want.
You answered the title of this thread but not the post. I'm not looking for performance, I'm looking for yield. There was a study on substrate in 2006 that found substrate effects yield. Performance can be change through strain selection as well as yield.
Your welcome
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Hammburgler
Stranger


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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: Stromrider]
#18820844 - 09/09/13 09:04 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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lawl
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jack_straw2208
Doctor



Registered: 02/12/07
Posts: 3,115
Loc: Earth
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: Stromrider]
#18821089 - 09/09/13 10:06 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18135103#18135103
nutrient enriched grass seed cakes seems to be the way to go. costs a little more but you get what you pay for.
there is a lot to read, but dude is getting better results from cakes than bulk the way he's doing it.
scroll down to find the part about endospore germination + plant food.
some revolutionary shit IMO
-------------------- If you can’t tell what you desperately need, it’s probably sleep.
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Dreaming Nomad
Psyborg



Registered: 01/15/13
Posts: 908
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I think what the OP wants to know is, what nutrients exactly does the fungus absorb from its substrate? What is it in straw/poo/coir/etc that sustains its life? Like how as humans, we eat food, but we extract from it fats, proteins, carbs, vitamins, etc.
He's not asking for substrate recipes that work well.
With that said; biology was never my strong suit... so I have no freaking idea.
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They say curiosity killed the cat... Fortunately, I am not a cat.
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Shahal Rainrix
Stranger
Registered: 09/07/13
Posts: 49
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Quote:
Dreaming Nomad said: I think what the OP wants to know is, what nutrients exactly does the fungus absorb from its substrate? What is it in straw/poo/coir/etc that sustains its life? Like how as humans, we eat food, but we extract from it fats, proteins, carbs, vitamins, etc.
He's not asking for substrate recipes that work well.
With that said; biology was never my strong suit... so I have no freaking idea.
Finally someone gets it, thank you.
I don't see why people can't read my full post. I clearly noted that I didn't want to know other peoples substrate blends. I even said I wanted to know what shrooms feed on in the first sentence
Edited by Shahal Rainrix (09/10/13 01:37 PM)
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Shahal Rainrix
Stranger
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: Stromrider]
#18823518 - 09/10/13 01:43 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
psillyshroomer said:
Quote:
Shahal Rainrix said:
Quote:
psillyshroomer said: Coco coir mixed with vermiculite works great and is super easy.
Poo is said to perform better but I have never used it since coir works so good for cubes and is so simple
My advice is if you want better performance think more about genetics and less about substrate blends
WoW, thanks for ignoring what I said and going ahead with posting what I said I didn't want.
You answered the title of this thread but not the post. I'm not looking for performance, I'm looking for yield. There was a study on substrate in 2006 that found substrate effects yield. Performance can be change through strain selection as well as yield.
Your welcome 
Maybe this'll help you in the future
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Stromrider
This must be the place


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Loc: Dept of know what I'm say...
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I wasn't trying to give you substrate blends I was just stating if you want bigger yields perhaps you should be thinking about genetics instead of nutrients. This is a forum for questions or discussion after all. I was just trying to help you out. Damn
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Shahal Rainrix
Stranger
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: Stromrider]
#18823656 - 09/10/13 02:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
psillyshroomer said: I wasn't trying to give you substrate blends I was just stating if you want bigger yields perhaps you should be thinking about genetics instead of nutrients. This is a forum for questions or discussion after all. I was just trying to help you out. Damn
But you gave me info I said I didn't want. That is very frustrating. I can't simply change genetics, but I can simply change substrate.
The info in your first post didn't give me anything to consider or talk about because none of it is what I am looking for. So why change subject and talk about genetics when I want feed?
If I can obtain the right info then I could simply order pure nutrients without dead weight online. I want the cake to be pure powerfood for the fungus.
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StygianKnight
A Mushroom

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 2,717
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Welcome to the shroomery. We are not here to be your personal research team. If you get bitchy about it, people will just put you on ignore and forget you exist.
Now to point you in the right direction, P.Cubes are dung loving decomposers. They eat what the cow doesn't. A search into the composition of cow dung may give you an idea of what they like.
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Shahal Rainrix
Stranger
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: StygianKnight]
#18823777 - 09/10/13 03:02 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't care about the first part. If someone doesn't want to help, then fine. I stated I didn't want substrate blends. But the whole reason I even made an account here was for fresh perspective and not info everyone can google.
It would make more sense to start look up the nutritional value for mushrooms and go by that. I did of course, but I can't help but feel I'm missing something. Your idea helps a little. I'll have to get all info on popular substrate though.
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StygianKnight
A Mushroom

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 2,717
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Good luck then! I'll just point out you're going at it all wrong...
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Shahal Rainrix
Stranger
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: StygianKnight]
#18823861 - 09/10/13 03:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
StygianKnight said:

Good luck then! I'll just point out you're going at it all wrong...
How so?
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Stromrider
This must be the place


Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 7,326
Loc: Dept of know what I'm say...
Last seen: 18 hours, 33 minutes
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Quote:
Shahal Rainrix said:
Quote:
psillyshroomer said: I wasn't trying to give you substrate blends I was just stating if you want bigger yields perhaps you should be thinking about genetics instead of nutrients. This is a forum for questions or discussion after all. I was just trying to help you out. Damn
But you gave me info I said I didn't want. That is very frustrating. I can't simply change genetics, but I can simply change substrate.
The info in your first post didn't give me anything to consider or talk about because none of it is what I am looking for. So why change subject and talk about genetics when I want feed?
If I can obtain the right info then I could simply order pure nutrients without dead weight online. I want the cake to be pure powerfood for the fungus.
Yes you can
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Dreaming Nomad
Psyborg



Registered: 01/15/13
Posts: 908
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I don't think the nutritional content of the substrate plays a major role in determining potency and yield. Hell, we don't even use the most nutritious materials available in our bulk grows because it'd be easier for contams to take hold, I think. Straw, poo and the like are mildly nutritious compared to grains. If you're trying to maximize quality, I'd focus on genetics and environment more than anything.
--------------------
They say curiosity killed the cat... Fortunately, I am not a cat.
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Shahal Rainrix
Stranger
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: Stromrider]
#18823935 - 09/10/13 03:34 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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fine, how?
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 17 days, 14 hours
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Strain isolation on agar.....
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
Edited by PussyFart (09/10/13 03:35 PM)
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Shahal Rainrix
Stranger
Registered: 09/07/13
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Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Quote:
Dreaming Nomad said: I don't think the nutritional content of the substrate plays a major role in determining potency and yield. Hell, we don't even use the most nutritious materials available in our bulk grows because it'd be easier for contams to take hold, I think. Straw, poo and the like are mildly nutritious compared to grains. If you're trying to maximize quality, I'd focus on genetics and environment more than anything.
Substrate effects on mushrooms
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Stromrider
This must be the place


Registered: 06/02/13
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Every time 2 spores meet they make unique genetics. You'll have to learn how to isolate and/or clone on agar. Start reading bud! It is quite a bit of info to take in.
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Shahal Rainrix
Stranger
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: Stromrider]
#18823977 - 09/10/13 03:41 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I know that and it is something I'll do, but people are ignoring me. I want stronger substrate to encouQuote:
psillyshroomer said: Every time 2 spores meet they make unique genetics. You'll have to learn how to isolate and/or clone on agar. Start reading bud! It is quite a bit of info to take in. 
That info is already everywhere and I've known it for a while. It also takes time to do that. So in the mean time, I want better substrate.
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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The number one nutrient mushrooms need to feed on comes from spores from bacteria, molds, and other fungi, especially trichoderma.
Good luck and happy cultivating.
-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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Stromrider
This must be the place


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Loc: Dept of know what I'm say...
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: SpitballJedi]
#18824030 - 09/10/13 03:59 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
SpitballJedi said: The number one nutrient mushrooms need to feed on comes from spores from bacteria, molds, and other fungi, especially trichoderma.
Good luck and happy cultivating.
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Shahal Rainrix
Stranger
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: Stromrider]
#18824101 - 09/10/13 04:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
SpitballJedi said: The number one nutrient mushrooms need to feed on comes from spores from bacteria, molds, and other fungi, especially trichoderma.
Good luck and happy cultivating.
Now what are those nutrients? A list would be nice.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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I think all of the substrate blends need to be reformulated they're just equine-crapshoots. I mean think about the thousands of failures and thousand more successes. Too bad none of that has yielded a super-substrate and it's unfortunate because we are all just sailing in the dark given that we could be making super substrates with our agar-time.
I wonder if it's the poor substrate(diet) that helps native Africans run so well surely it's not genetic(selection).
It's less what they eat and more how their genes eat what they get and transform it into a mushroom.
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Stromrider
This must be the place


Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 7,326
Loc: Dept of know what I'm say...
Last seen: 18 hours, 33 minutes
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Quote:
Shahal Rainrix said:
Quote:
SpitballJedi said: The number one nutrient mushrooms need to feed on comes from spores from bacteria, molds, and other fungi, especially trichoderma.
Good luck and happy cultivating.
Now what are those nutrients? A list would be nice.
thanks I needed that! I'm getting ready to work a 12 hour shift and I am not in the best mood but now I feel better. I owe you one spitball!
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Stromrider
This must be the place


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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: Stromrider]
#18824201 - 09/10/13 04:47 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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He is fucking with you shah! You see there is a small group of experienced cultivators that frequent this forum and answer most of the questions. These are a good group of guys that are very polite and helpful. However when you act like a tool they will flame you pretty hard. You can learn a lot on here if you go about it right. Remember that
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Shahal Rainrix
Stranger
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: Stromrider]
#18824280 - 09/10/13 05:02 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't care, and I'll act how I like just as you do. I only wanted one thing and if no one wants to help, that's fine. If people don't want to be flamed then they should avoid posting things a person says they don't want.
All I wanted was a list of nutrients and thoughts on supplemental feeding. I asked here for new perspective. So now its on to plan B, trial and error.
To bad no one gave me anything that I didn't already know.
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: Stromrider]
#18824304 - 09/10/13 05:07 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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StygianKnight
A Mushroom

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 2,717
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: Stromrider]
#18824315 - 09/10/13 05:09 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yep too bad for us! Now we will never get to eat your super grow! (Yes I just replaced a small but useful post with snark due to your most recent reply. You reap what you sow.)
My final advice is you need to think about what a mushroom really is and its job in the lifecycle.
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Shahal Rainrix
Stranger
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: StygianKnight]
#18824341 - 09/10/13 05:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Diet has an effect on all thing. A rich diet effects growth, size and many other things. After a few generations diet can have profound effects on genes.
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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All joking aside...
Quote:
Shahal Rainrix said: If I can obtain the right info then I could simply order pure nutrients without dead weight online. I want the cake to be pure powerfood for the fungus.
No. You can't. Someone might can, but it's not you. You don't have the skills, experience, or knowledge to accomplish this approach.
If you could collect the data on all the trajectories of all the particles in all the universe, then you could calculate where they started and where they will end up.
Quote:
Shahal Rainrix said: ...but I can't help but feel I'm missing something.

You are not likely to get the answers you are looking for just by simply asking. You are going to have to do heavy research and conduct experiments. What you are looking for is very complex and not as well understood as you might think. You might as well be asking for a nutrient list for producing humans.
Many people are aware of some of the basic elements mushrooms and mycelium use as nutrients. But a lot of what they need is still somewhat of a mystery.
Instead, over the years, what people have come up with is substrate and agar material.
Instead of trying to reinvent the wheel by simply asking "what do mushrooms like?", a better question may be like "what's in coir, vermiculite, and gypsum that mushrooms seem to like?" and that sort of stuff. If you have the answer to that type of question, then you will be on your way to answering your original question.
What part of the substrate is "dead weight"?
-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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Shahal Rainrix
Stranger
Registered: 09/07/13
Posts: 49
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: SpitballJedi]
#18824876 - 09/10/13 07:23 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
SpitballJedi said: All joking aside...
Quote:
Shahal Rainrix said: If I can obtain the right info then I could simply order pure nutrients without dead weight online. I want the cake to be pure powerfood for the fungus.
No. You can't. Someone might can, but it's not you. You don't have the skills, experience, or knowledge to accomplish this approach.
If you could collect the data on all the trajectories of all the particles in all the universe, then you could calculate where they started and where they will end up.
Quote:
Shahal Rainrix said: ...but I can't help but feel I'm missing something.

You are not likely to get the answers you are looking for just by simply asking. You are going to have to do heavy research and conduct experiments. What you are looking for is very complex and not as well understood as you might think. You might as well be asking for a nutrient list for producing humans.
Many people are aware of some of the basic elements mushrooms and mycelium use as nutrients. But a lot of what they need is still somewhat of a mystery.
Instead, over the years, what people have come up with is substrate and agar material.
Instead of trying to reinvent the wheel by simply asking "what do mushrooms like?", a better question may be like "what's in coir, vermiculite, and gypsum that mushrooms seem to like?" and that sort of stuff. If you have the answer to that type of question, then you will be on your way to answering your original question.
What part of the substrate is "dead weight"?
Nutrient List of the Human Body. It took one google search and it was top of the list. : )
To bad I can't find a straight answer on how mushrooms absorb nutrients. And I already asked my self that. I didn't even need a nutrient list for mushrooms. I was hoping people were smart enough to get the same list I did.
Here you go, a list of the makeup that make a mushroom.
) Nutritional value per 100 g (3.5 oz)
Carbohydrates 4.1 g Fat 0.1 g Protein 2.5 g Thiamine (vit. B1) 0.1 mg (9%) Riboflavin (vit. B2) 0.5 mg (42%) Niacin (vit. B3) 3.8 mg (25%) Pantothenic acid (B5) 1.5 mg (30%) Vitamin C 0 mg (0%) Calcium 18 mg (2%) Phosphorus 120 mg (17%) Potassium 448 mg (10%) Sodium 6 mg (0%) Zinc 1.1 mg (12%) ((Also 1 google search))
Not hard to find. I should have seen atleast 1 person post this. No one seemed to care what I was after from the start though. But whatever.
Like I said before, I wanted fresh perspective. In case you are wondering why I didn't come out and post the info I already have.
And dead weight is anything that the mushroom doesn't need or need as much. Like zinc, how much zinc would be to much in the substrate.
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Hammburgler
Stranger


Registered: 08/13/13
Posts: 81
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Quote:
Shahal Rainrix said: I don't care, and I'll act how I like just as you do. I only wanted one thing and if no one wants to help, that's fine. If people don't want to be flamed then they should avoid posting things a person says they don't want.
All I wanted was a list of nutrients and thoughts on supplemental feeding. I asked here for new perspective. So now its on to plan B, trial and error.
To bad no one gave me anything that I didn't already know.
YEAH YEAH ! You tell them!.You only came here for info and to get people to do some free work for you. Fuck their feelings you don't need to treat them with any type of respect. Besides they don't know shit anyway everything anyone said to you you already know by default.
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: Stromrider]
#18824962 - 09/10/13 07:44 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
psillyshroomer said: Coco coir mixed with vermiculite works great and is super easy.
Poo is said to perform better but I have never used it since coir works so good for cubes and is so simple
My advice is if you want better performance think more about genetics and less about substrate blends
Can't find any coir here except in hydro shops
but that needs to be pasteurized, is there any easier way?
isn't there any places selling cheap coir that you don't have to pasteurize?
$25 for a handsized brick of coir sounds expensive, in a reptilian store would only make for a few grows?
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Stromrider
This must be the place


Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 7,326
Loc: Dept of know what I'm say...
Last seen: 18 hours, 33 minutes
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: lessismore]
#18824978 - 09/10/13 07:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I brick of coir at petco is $3
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Hammburgler
Stranger


Registered: 08/13/13
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: lessismore]
#18824994 - 09/10/13 07:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
mio said:
Quote:
psillyshroomer said: Coco coir mixed with vermiculite works great and is super easy.
Poo is said to perform better but I have never used it since coir works so good for cubes and is so simple
My advice is if you want better performance think more about genetics and less about substrate blends
Can't find any coir here except in hydro shops
but that needs to be pasteurized, is there any easier way?
isn't there any places selling cheap coir that you don't have to pasteurize?
$25 for a handsized brick of coir sounds expensive, in a reptilian store would only make for a few grows?
You are not gonna find any that does not need to be pasteurized. $25 is way way way too much. You should be able to find 3 bricks for around 7 bucks or so online + shipping if its your last choice. Otherwise check out any garden supply stores or home improvement stores in your area they should carry it.
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Kjetterfaen
Strangler

Registered: 07/21/13
Posts: 495
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That... is the nutritional value of "Mushrooms, brown, Italian, or Crimini, raw". And you know that very well, because it says so on the page you found the information, right above the list. It even still contains the "relative percentage of recommended daily intake for adult human male" for crying out loud.
Quote:
Shahal Rainrix said: Not hard to find. I should have seen atleast 1 person post this. No one seemed to care what I was after from the start though. But whatever.
Was this really what you wanted? Cause I think the answers you got were better..
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: lessismore]
#18825013 - 09/10/13 07:52 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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OP: To my knowledge organic compost,wormcastings, aged hpoo+straw, coir
those are some of the best bulk substrates iirc
coffee is usually good too iirc, gives nitrogen for bigger shrooms
vermiculite helps the shrooms grow iirc, and helps retain moisture a bit, have had good luck with it for a casing 2 times before (sterilized verm) - worked nicely with crumbled pfcakes in mono
you need to stabilize the pH of your bulk sub for best results (hydrated lime i.e.)
using any of the above would give massive shrooms I'm sure, but needs to be prepared right pasteurization usually
coir has the advantage that you can do bulk pasteurization in a bucket (see bucket tek) and get very large shrooms, without much work
I've heard compost should be the best bulksub, but dunno how to case it (probably just mix it in trays with spawn + adjust pH with hydrated lime i.e.?) making my own compost in my garden to test out one day :-)
A good bulk sub will be able to retain a lot of water while having plenty of nutrients + the right consistency(like coir/aged hpoo - shrooms love that), shrooms are 90% water, so that is what you want (usually the spawn delivers the nutrients, but you can put the nutrients with your bulksub too) A good casing will help hold the moisture so it doesn't evaporate away from the shrooms, providnig the microclimate for good pinning, casings are usually thin, 1/4" or so - helps pinning Casings are usually non-nutrious , they're just there for moisture retention (that's why you can use dry verm as a casing i.e.) (that is my understanding, it might not be accurate, research yourself)
Edited by lessismore (09/10/13 08:21 PM)
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: lessismore]
#18825014 - 09/10/13 07:53 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
mio said: Can't find any coir here except in hydro shops
but that needs to be pasteurized, is there any easier way?
isn't there any places selling cheap coir that you don't have to pasteurize?
$25 for a handsized brick of coir sounds expensive, in a reptilian store would only make for a few grows?
Coir should always be pasteurized, contam issues aside, it has been said a few times that pasteurization helps break it down, which makes it easier for the mycellium to digest. My local pet shop sells a 3 pack of bricks for $12. That's roughly 24 quarts of sub at 50cents a quart.
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Sockadin



Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 7,244
Last seen: 2 months, 21 days
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Quote:
Shahal Rainrix said: What I need to know is what shrooms feed on the most so I can make a more powerful substrate. Like if shrooms need carbs, how badly? A list of most needed to least needed would be a big help.
Also, is it possible to feed them with powered and liquid supplements? If that is possible with powers and misters? If I could add those to the substrate when mixing as well as later, topically, could I get a larger or longer lasting flush?
If people would test this for me,I'd be grateful.
NOTE: I am not looking for other peoples substrate blends. I want to make my own with the richest ingredients in order to increase the number of shrooms. This way I can research nutritional values and serving sizes to make my own blend.
So I have read a lot of this thread, and I am offended that you would think that it is ok to post a topic, and then troll everyone who wanted to help you by giving you sound advise. Take their advise, if you want to experiment with different additives and powders and what ever the hell you are thinking, do it your self. This hobby is time intensive, and can be expensive.
If you want to do this for real, make it a community project. Put together a list of ideas, then narrow down those into 4-5 different grows. Get one person to do the control, and make a Grow A Long.
But don't be a dick when good people want to help, everything these guys have said in the last 3 weeks has been amazingly helpful to me.
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Shahal Rainrix
Stranger
Registered: 09/07/13
Posts: 49
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: Hammburgler]
#18825054 - 09/10/13 08:01 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hammburgler said:
Quote:
Shahal Rainrix said: I don't care, and I'll act how I like just as you do. I only wanted one thing and if no one wants to help, that's fine. If people don't want to be flamed then they should avoid posting things a person says they don't want.
All I wanted was a list of nutrients and thoughts on supplemental feeding. I asked here for new perspective. So now its on to plan B, trial and error.
To bad no one gave me anything that I didn't already know.
YEAH YEAH ! You tell them!.You only came here for info and to get people to do some free work for you. Fuck their feelings you don't need to treat them with any type of respect. Besides they don't know shit anyway everything anyone said to you you already know by default.
I have been diagnosed as schzoaggressive(visual and audio hallucinations), sociopath and I have aspergers syndrome. I am on so many pills that I feel nothing. Families member die, girls cry, people break up with me and I continue not to feel. And if I stop taking my meds, all I feel is anger. So yeah, to hell with everyone else's problems. It's not like I have empathy.
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Hammburgler
Stranger


Registered: 08/13/13
Posts: 81
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: Sockadin]
#18825071 - 09/10/13 08:05 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sockadin said: So I have read a lot of this thread, and I am offended that you would think that it is ok to post a topic, and then troll everyone who wanted to help you by giving you sound advise. Take their advise, if you want to experiment with different additives and powders and what ever the hell you are thinking, do it your self. This hobby is time intensive, and can be expensive.
If you want to do this for real, make it a community project. Put together a list of ideas, then narrow down those into 4-5 different grows. Get one person to do the control, and make a Grow A Long.
But don't be a dick when good people want to help, everything these guys have said in the last 3 weeks has been amazingly helpful to me.
Yup
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Sockadin



Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 7,244
Last seen: 2 months, 21 days
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Quote:
Shahal Rainrix said:
Quote:
SpitballJedi said: All joking aside...
Quote:
Shahal Rainrix said: If I can obtain the right info then I could simply order pure nutrients without dead weight online. I want the cake to be pure powerfood for the fungus.
No. You can't. Someone might can, but it's not you. You don't have the skills, experience, or knowledge to accomplish this approach.
If you could collect the data on all the trajectories of all the particles in all the universe, then you could calculate where they started and where they will end up.
Quote:
Shahal Rainrix said: ...but I can't help but feel I'm missing something.

You are not likely to get the answers you are looking for just by simply asking. You are going to have to do heavy research and conduct experiments. What you are looking for is very complex and not as well understood as you might think. You might as well be asking for a nutrient list for producing humans.
Many people are aware of some of the basic elements mushrooms and mycelium use as nutrients. But a lot of what they need is still somewhat of a mystery.
Instead, over the years, what people have come up with is substrate and agar material.
Instead of trying to reinvent the wheel by simply asking "what do mushrooms like?", a better question may be like "what's in coir, vermiculite, and gypsum that mushrooms seem to like?" and that sort of stuff. If you have the answer to that type of question, then you will be on your way to answering your original question.
What part of the substrate is "dead weight"?
Nutrient List of the Human Body. It took one google search and it was top of the list. : )
To bad I can't find a straight answer on how mushrooms absorb nutrients. And I already asked my self that. I didn't even need a nutrient list for mushrooms. I was hoping people were smart enough to get the same list I did.
Here you go, a list of the makeup that make a mushroom.
) Nutritional value per 100 g (3.5 oz)
Carbohydrates 4.1 g Fat 0.1 g Protein 2.5 g Thiamine (vit. B1) 0.1 mg (9%) Riboflavin (vit. B2) 0.5 mg (42%) Niacin (vit. B3) 3.8 mg (25%) Pantothenic acid (B5) 1.5 mg (30%) Vitamin C 0 mg (0%) Calcium 18 mg (2%) Phosphorus 120 mg (17%) Potassium 448 mg (10%) Sodium 6 mg (0%) Zinc 1.1 mg (12%) ((Also 1 google search))
Not hard to find. I should have seen atleast 1 person post this. No one seemed to care what I was after from the start though. But whatever.
Like I said before, I wanted fresh perspective. In case you are wondering why I didn't come out and post the info I already have.
And dead weight is anything that the mushroom doesn't need or need as much. Like zinc, how much zinc would be to much in the substrate.
This is what is wrong with this new generation. "I wanna know how my balls can reach my mouth." And the just freaking google it.
Dude if you want in on some ground breaking cultivation information, don't be a wiener and join this community the right way, by posting things that have worked for you and asking good questions. Together we can reinvent the wheel.
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Kjetterfaen
Strangler

Registered: 07/21/13
Posts: 495
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Quote:
Shahal Rainrix said:
Quote:
Hammburgler said:
Quote:
Shahal Rainrix said: I don't care, and I'll act how I like just as you do. I only wanted one thing and if no one wants to help, that's fine. If people don't want to be flamed then they should avoid posting things a person says they don't want.
All I wanted was a list of nutrients and thoughts on supplemental feeding. I asked here for new perspective. So now its on to plan B, trial and error.
To bad no one gave me anything that I didn't already know.
YEAH YEAH ! You tell them!.You only came here for info and to get people to do some free work for you. Fuck their feelings you don't need to treat them with any type of respect. Besides they don't know shit anyway everything anyone said to you you already know by default.
I have been diagnosed as schzoaggressive(visual and audio hallucinations), sociopath and I have aspergers syndrome. I am on so many pills that I feel nothing. Families member die, girls cry, people break up with me and I continue not to feel. And if I stop taking my meds, all I feel is anger. So yeah, to hell with everyone else's problems. It's not like I have empathy.
And nobody has any with you, because you act like an indignant and self-righteous little shit. I am willing to bet you are not the only one with serious mental and/or physical issues on the board. Life sucks, get a helmet. Or a rope. Whatever you decide, don't tell me about it.
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Quote:
Shahal Rainrix said: What I need to know is what shrooms feed on the most so I can make a more powerful substrate. Like if shrooms need carbs, how badly? A list of most needed to least needed would be a big help.
Quote:
Shahal Rainrix said: I was hoping people were smart enough to get the same list I did.
Here you go, a list of the makeup that make a mushroom.
) Nutritional value per 100 g (3.5 oz)
Carbohydrates 4.1 g Fat 0.1 g Protein 2.5 g Thiamine (vit. B1) 0.1 mg (9%) Riboflavin (vit. B2) 0.5 mg (42%) Niacin (vit. B3) 3.8 mg (25%) Pantothenic acid (B5) 1.5 mg (30%) Vitamin C 0 mg (0%) Calcium 18 mg (2%) Phosphorus 120 mg (17%) Potassium 448 mg (10%) Sodium 6 mg (0%) Zinc 1.1 mg (12%)
Maybe people are smart enough to know that the nutritional value of something is not the same thing as "...what shrooms feed on the most so I can make a more powerful substrate."
Quote:
Shahal Rainrix said: In case you are wondering why I didn't come out and post the info I already have.
I've read every post you ever made under the name "Shahal Rainrix". You have not posted this list under this name. And if it was so easy to obtain, then why ask us? Why are you trying to bullshit us?
It's obvious you are lost. I wished you got the info you were looking for, and you may have gotten farther if you didn't insult those who were only trying to help. I'm sure people looked at the first few posts and said"fuck this dude" and moved on. Some of those people may have had info for you.
We can wipe the slate clean, but you need to come correct.
-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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Hammburgler
Stranger


Registered: 08/13/13
Posts: 81
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: SpitballJedi]
#18825135 - 09/10/13 08:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
SpitballJedi said:[/b We can wipe the slate clean, but you need to come correct.
yeah get your mind right yo
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Sockadin



Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 7,244
Last seen: 2 months, 21 days
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: SpitballJedi]
#18825159 - 09/10/13 08:28 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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So lets do that because I don't disagree with this doochy's thinking.
What nutrients do we know of that mycelium likes to eat?
What is the ideal PH balance for mycelium development?
What are the ideal fruiting conditions for mushroom production?
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StygianKnight
A Mushroom

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 2,717
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: SpitballJedi]
#18825186 - 09/10/13 08:36 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Lol did you really pull the "I was just testing you guys" and you all failed, losers! This is becoming a hilarious thread.
"I have been diagnosed as schzoaggressive(visual and audio hallucinations), sociopath and I have aspergers syndrome." That's unfortunate, welcome to the real world, where if you want people to help you, treating them like crap will get you the exact opposite, especially on the internet.
Ok giving you a single benefit of the doubt... -----
First of all you need to think about what a mushroom really is. I'll wait… While I would compare them to other plants or animals I think this is a common trap as they are inherently different thus no comparison will be accurate.
Ultimately you are feeding the mycelium, not the mushroom. "But I want mushrooms!" you say Exactly! Which is why it's best to think beyond just food. You can come up with the perfect Mycelium feed and it will happily sit around eating it and doing nothing.
Mushrooms are the reproductive bodies of mycelium. They grow because the mycelium feels like it's time to start getting it on and making some spore babies. You're just the hotel manager making sure there's no stains on the bed with nice mood lighting, etc.
Dealing with the substrate if you want a place to start looking I would suggest Gypsum and other Calcium and Sulphur containing minerals, they can be added in large amounts without serious detriment. Now if you want a place to start experimenting (well besides genetics), start researching Nitrogen content and mushrooms. Multiple studies point to mycelium loving and wanting more nitrogen rich nutrients. This isn't without its issues as too much Nitrogen rich substrate can destabilize PH levels, burn mycelium and provide a great source of nutrition for contams.
As far as *How* mycelium consumes food, there is a lot of research on that, but a quick description is that it wraps itself around the food, secretes digestive enzymes then sucks it up when it feels like it. A bit like an inverse stomach. The mycelium will only consume what it needs at any given time, more nutrients provide a stockpile but don't actually 'bulk' up mycelium like a human body builder.
Frankly it's obvious you are new at this, as almost every newbie wants to find the magical substrate additive that will produce super fruits, and it just doesn't exist. Mushrooms are not the same as plants or animals and thus often means a different approach than normal.
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Sockadin



Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 7,244
Last seen: 2 months, 21 days
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: StygianKnight]
#18825358 - 09/10/13 09:10 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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well said sir.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: Sockadin]
#18827236 - 09/11/13 10:52 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Feeding shrooms only nutrients sounds like those futuristic programs where people just eat nutrient pills to live. What ever made you think that the shrooms don't like to eat? We could sip on a nutrient broth made from everything we know that our body gets from food but then what the fuck is the point of our enzymes, acids, cell walls etc... Half of the biological cascade is just eating substrate to obtain nutrients. I would suspect if not presented in a food form and rather just nutrients the mushroom or human body wouldn't know WTF to do with it. Appropriate biological signaling wouldn't occur the protein synthesis cascades would fail etc...
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Quote:
Shahal Rainrix said: What I need to know is what shrooms feed on the most so I can make a more powerful substrate. Like if shrooms need carbs, how badly? A list of most needed to least needed would be a big help.
Also, is it possible to feed them with powered and liquid supplements? If that is possible with powers and misters? If I could add those to the substrate when mixing as well as later, topically, could I get a larger or longer lasting flush?
If people would test this for me,I'd be grateful.
NOTE: I am not looking for other peoples substrate blends. I want to make my own with the richest ingredients in order to increase the number of shrooms. This way I can research nutritional values and serving sizes to make my own blend.
The most nutritious substrate is BRF + verm. But you have to keep this sterile until it is fully colonized.
As far as standard (pasteurized) bulk, high nutritional value of the substrate is not going to help much of anything really. Pasteurized bulk substrate is low-nutrient for many reasons.
Highly nutritious substrate will just make everything more likely to contam as well as slowing your colonization and fruiting times significantly.
My 66qt monotubs with a simple substrate (coir/verm) and good genetics will give me 8+ ounce (dry) first flushes any day.
If you are not working with agar (which I don't believe you to be) then the best thing to do for big yields is to get your fruiting conditions dialed in perfectly.
My signature has many links to things I have written that may help you out.
People are just trying to tell you that you should focus less on the substrate.
Now please, calm down before the moderators notice you.
We are just trying to steer you in the right direction. We are a collective of hobby cultivators, not professional mycologists. If you have info to share, please do because it is the same thing we are doing for you
Edited by FrankHorrigan (09/11/13 11:06 AM)
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#18827329 - 09/11/13 11:24 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said:
Quote:
Shahal Rainrix said: What I need to know is what shrooms feed on the most so I can make a more powerful substrate. Like if shrooms need carbs, how badly? A list of most needed to least needed would be a big help.
Also, is it possible to feed them with powered and liquid supplements? If that is possible with powers and misters? If I could add those to the substrate when mixing as well as later, topically, could I get a larger or longer lasting flush?
If people would test this for me,I'd be grateful.
NOTE: I am not looking for other peoples substrate blends. I want to make my own with the richest ingredients in order to increase the number of shrooms. This way I can research nutritional values and serving sizes to make my own blend.
The most nutritious substrate is BRF + verm. But you have to keep this sterile until it is fully colonized.
As far as standard (pasteurized) bulk, high nutritional value of the substrate is not going to help much of anything really. Pasteurized bulk substrate is low-nutrient for many reasons.
Highly nutritious substrate will just make everything more likely to contam as well as slowing your colonization and fruiting times significantly.
My 66qt monotubs with a simple substrate (coir/verm) and good genetics will give me 8+ ounce (dry) first flushes any day.
If you are not working with agar (which I don't believe you to be) then the best thing to do for big yields is to get your fruiting conditions dialed in perfectly.
My signature has many links to things I have written that may help you out.
People are just trying to tell you that you should focus less on the substrate.
Now please, calm down before the moderators notice you.
We are just trying to steer you in the right direction. We are a collective of hobby cultivators, not professional mycologists. If you have info to share, please do because it is the same thing we are doing for you 
Or show him a plate of what myc looks like on agar that's way to nutritious. I really think mushrooms enjoy the eating part since it's what they're designed to do which means it's very much a part of the whole picture. Throwing race gas into your car wouldn't have wonderful effects it's not made to eat super octane gas. There's a lot of better options that would make your car faster.
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Quote:
Shahal Rainrix said: Like I said before, I wanted fresh perspective.
You aren't asking for "perspective", otherwise you would have searched for some tried and true actual scientific data through google or the shroomery search engine.
You got perspectives on what you should focus on for bigger yields, but your response is to post the answer you think you should have gotten instead
Here's a post on an ideal substrate and why it is so: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/3466237#3466237
I'm sure that won't suit your fancy either, but YOU'RE WELCOME anyway.
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Quick WBS Prep
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: FooMan]
#18827503 - 09/11/13 12:09 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
FooMan said: Here's a post on an ideal substrate and why it is so: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/3466237#3466237

Good ol' agar, where is he nowadays?
PS. Shahal, it seems a moderator has noticed you. Play nice.
Edited by FrankHorrigan (09/11/13 12:14 PM)
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#18827669 - 09/11/13 12:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said: Good ol' agar, where is he nowadays?
I've heard all sorts of rumors regarding his health and possible passing, but none of them were ever confirmed. I swear he has popped in under different aliases since we last saw him, but the members I suspected were his aliases have since disappeared also.
I wish he was still around. He was definitely an innovator, provided a wealth of information to everyone and was a huge influence on our community. He was among the first TC's appointed on the board and I believe he is the only TC to this day to be appointed a TC despite his account being inactive for some time prior to the tag being created.
The guy was a legend and I still refer back to his posts first when I have questions of my own. He is definitely missed
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Quick WBS Prep
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