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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: lessismore]
    #18825013 - 09/10/13 07:52 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

OP:
To my knowledge organic compost,wormcastings, aged hpoo+straw, coir

those are some of the best bulk substrates iirc

coffee is usually good too iirc, gives nitrogen for bigger shrooms

vermiculite helps the shrooms grow iirc, and helps retain moisture a bit, have had good luck with it for a casing 2 times before (sterilized verm) - worked nicely with crumbled pfcakes in mono

you need to stabilize the pH of your bulk sub for best results (hydrated lime i.e.)

using any of the above would give massive shrooms I'm sure, but needs to be prepared right
pasteurization usually

coir has the advantage that you can do bulk pasteurization in a bucket (see bucket tek)
and get very large shrooms, without much work

I've heard compost should be the best bulksub, but dunno how to case it (probably just mix it in trays with spawn + adjust pH with hydrated lime i.e.?)
making my own compost in my garden to test out one day :-)

A good bulk sub will be able to retain a lot of water while having plenty of nutrients + the right consistency(like coir/aged hpoo - shrooms love that), shrooms are 90% water, so that is what you want  (usually the spawn delivers the nutrients, but you can put the nutrients with your bulksub too)
A good casing will help hold the moisture so it doesn't evaporate away from the shrooms, providnig the microclimate for good pinning, casings are usually thin, 1/4" or so - helps pinning
Casings are usually non-nutrious , they're just there for moisture retention (that's why you can use dry verm as a casing i.e.)
(that is my understanding, it might not be accurate, research yourself)


Edited by lessismore (09/10/13 08:21 PM)


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: lessismore]
    #18825014 - 09/10/13 07:53 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mio said:
Can't find any coir here except in hydro shops

but that needs to be pasteurized, is there any easier way?

isn't there any places selling cheap coir that you don't have to pasteurize?

$25 for a handsized brick of coir sounds expensive, in a reptilian store
would only make for a few grows?




Coir should always be pasteurized, contam issues aside, it has been said a few times that pasteurization helps break it down, which makes it easier for the mycellium to digest. My local pet shop sells a 3 pack of bricks for $12. That's roughly 24 quarts of sub at 50cents a quart.


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OfflineSockadin
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: Shahal Rainrix]
    #18825044 - 09/10/13 08:00 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Shahal Rainrix said:
What I need to know is what shrooms feed on the most so I can make a more powerful substrate. Like if shrooms need carbs, how badly? A list of most needed to least needed would be a big help.

Also, is it possible to feed them with powered and liquid supplements? If that is possible with powers and misters? If I could add those to the substrate when mixing as well as later, topically, could I get a larger or longer lasting flush?

If people would test this for me,I'd be grateful.

NOTE: I am not looking for other peoples substrate blends. I want to make my own with the richest ingredients in order to increase the number of shrooms. This way I can research nutritional values and serving sizes to make my own blend.





So I have read a lot of this thread, and I am offended that you would think that it is ok to post a topic, and then troll everyone who wanted to help you by giving you sound advise.
  Take their advise, if you want to experiment with different additives and powders and what ever the hell you are thinking, do it your self. This hobby is time intensive, and can be expensive.

If you want to do this for real, make it a community project. Put together a list of ideas, then narrow down those into 4-5 different grows. Get one person to do the control, and make a Grow A Long.

But don't be a dick when good people want to help, everything these guys have said in the last 3 weeks has been amazingly helpful to me.


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OfflineShahal Rainrix
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: Hammburgler]
    #18825054 - 09/10/13 08:01 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Hammburgler said:
Quote:

Shahal Rainrix said:
I don't care, and I'll act how I like just as you do. I only wanted one thing and if no one wants to help, that's fine. If people don't want to be flamed then they should avoid posting things a person says they don't want.

All I wanted was a list of nutrients and thoughts on supplemental feeding. I asked here for new perspective. So now its on to plan B, trial and error.

To bad no one gave me anything that I didn't already know.




YEAH YEAH ! You tell them!.You only came here for info and to get people to do some free work for you. Fuck their feelings you don't need to treat them with any type of respect. Besides they don't know shit anyway everything anyone said to you you already know by default.



I have been diagnosed as schzoaggressive(visual and audio hallucinations), sociopath and I have aspergers syndrome. I am on so many pills that I feel nothing. Families member die, girls cry, people break up with me and I continue not to feel. And if I stop taking my meds, all I feel is anger. So yeah, to hell with everyone else's problems. It's not like I have empathy.


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OfflineHammburgler
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: Sockadin]
    #18825071 - 09/10/13 08:05 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Sockadin said:
So I have read a lot of this thread, and I am offended that you would think that it is ok to post a topic, and then troll everyone who wanted to help you by giving you sound advise.
  Take their advise, if you want to experiment with different additives and powders and what ever the hell you are thinking, do it your self. This hobby is time intensive, and can be expensive.

If you want to do this for real, make it a community project. Put together a list of ideas, then narrow down those into 4-5 different grows. Get one person to do the control, and make a Grow A Long.

But don't be a dick when good people want to help, everything these guys have said in the last 3 weeks has been amazingly helpful to me.




Yup:thumbup:


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OfflineSockadin
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: Shahal Rainrix]
    #18825074 - 09/10/13 08:06 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Shahal Rainrix said:
Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
All joking aside...

Quote:

Shahal Rainrix said:
If I can obtain the right info then I could simply order pure nutrients without dead weight online. I want the cake to be pure powerfood for the fungus.




No. You can't. Someone might can, but it's not you. You don't have the skills, experience, or knowledge to accomplish this approach.

If you could collect the data on all the trajectories of all the particles in all the universe, then you could calculate where they started and where they will end up.

Quote:

Shahal Rainrix said:
...but I can't help but feel I'm missing something.




:thumbup:

You are not likely to get the answers you are looking for just by simply asking. You are going to have to do heavy research and conduct experiments. What you are looking for is very complex and not as well understood as you might think. You might as well be asking for a nutrient list for producing humans.

Many people are aware of some of the basic elements mushrooms and mycelium use as nutrients. But a lot of what they need is still somewhat of a mystery.

Instead, over the years, what people have come up with is substrate and agar material.

Instead of trying to reinvent the wheel by simply asking "what do mushrooms like?", a better question may be like "what's in coir, vermiculite, and gypsum that mushrooms seem to like?" and that sort of stuff. If you have the answer to that type of question, then you will be on your way to answering your original question.

What part of the substrate is "dead weight"?



Nutrient List of the Human Body. It took one google search and it was top of the list. : )

To bad I can't find a straight answer on how mushrooms absorb nutrients. And I already asked my self that. I didn't even need a nutrient list for mushrooms. I was hoping people were smart enough to get the same list I did.

Here you go, a list of the makeup that make a mushroom.

) Nutritional value per 100 g (3.5 oz)

Carbohydrates         4.1 g
Fat                 0.1 g
Protein                 2.5 g
Thiamine (vit. B1) 0.1 mg (9%)
Riboflavin (vit. B2)  0.5 mg (42%)
Niacin (vit. B3) 3.8 mg (25%)
Pantothenic acid (B5) 1.5 mg (30%)
Vitamin C         0 mg (0%)
Calcium                 18 mg (2%)
Phosphorus         120 mg (17%)
Potassium        448 mg (10%)
Sodium                 6 mg (0%)
Zinc                 1.1 mg (12%)
((Also 1 google search))

Not hard to find. I should have seen atleast 1 person post this. No one seemed to care what I was after from the start though. But whatever.

Like I said before, I wanted fresh perspective. In case you are wondering why I didn't come out and post the info I already have.

And dead weight is anything that the mushroom doesn't need or need as much. Like zinc, how much zinc would be to much in the substrate.




This is what is wrong with this new generation. "I wanna know how my balls can reach my mouth." And the just freaking google it.

Dude if you want in on some ground breaking cultivation information, don't be a wiener and join this community the right way, by posting things that have worked for you and asking good questions. Together we can reinvent the wheel.


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InvisibleKjetterfaen
Strangler

Registered: 07/21/13
Posts: 495
Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: Shahal Rainrix]
    #18825092 - 09/10/13 08:11 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Shahal Rainrix said:
Quote:

Hammburgler said:
Quote:

Shahal Rainrix said:
I don't care, and I'll act how I like just as you do. I only wanted one thing and if no one wants to help, that's fine. If people don't want to be flamed then they should avoid posting things a person says they don't want.

All I wanted was a list of nutrients and thoughts on supplemental feeding. I asked here for new perspective. So now its on to plan B, trial and error.

To bad no one gave me anything that I didn't already know.




YEAH YEAH ! You tell them!.You only came here for info and to get people to do some free work for you. Fuck their feelings you don't need to treat them with any type of respect. Besides they don't know shit anyway everything anyone said to you you already know by default.



I have been diagnosed as schzoaggressive(visual and audio hallucinations), sociopath and I have aspergers syndrome. I am on so many pills that I feel nothing. Families member die, girls cry, people break up with me and I continue not to feel. And if I stop taking my meds, all I feel is anger. So yeah, to hell with everyone else's problems. It's not like I have empathy.




And nobody has any with you, because you act like an indignant and self-righteous little shit. I am willing to bet you are not the only one with serious mental and/or physical issues on the board. Life sucks, get a helmet. Or a rope. Whatever you decide, don't tell me about it.


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: Shahal Rainrix]
    #18825104 - 09/10/13 08:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Shahal Rainrix said:
What I need to know is what shrooms feed on the most so I can make a more powerful substrate. Like if shrooms need carbs, how badly? A list of most needed to least needed would be a big help.





Quote:

Shahal Rainrix said:
I was hoping people were smart enough to get the same list I did.

Here you go, a list of the makeup that make a mushroom.

) Nutritional value per 100 g (3.5 oz)

Carbohydrates         4.1 g
Fat                 0.1 g
Protein                 2.5 g
Thiamine (vit. B1) 0.1 mg (9%)
Riboflavin (vit. B2)  0.5 mg (42%)
Niacin (vit. B3) 3.8 mg (25%)
Pantothenic acid (B5) 1.5 mg (30%)
Vitamin C         0 mg (0%)
Calcium                 18 mg (2%)
Phosphorus         120 mg (17%)
Potassium        448 mg (10%)
Sodium                 6 mg (0%)
Zinc                 1.1 mg (12%)





Maybe people are smart enough to know that the nutritional value of something is not the same thing as "...what shrooms feed on the most so I can make a more powerful substrate."

Quote:

Shahal Rainrix said:
In case you are wondering why I didn't come out and post the info I already have.




I've read every post you ever made under the name "Shahal Rainrix". You have not posted this list under this name. And if it was so easy to obtain, then why ask us? Why are you trying to bullshit us?

It's obvious you are lost. I wished you got the info you were looking for, and you may have gotten farther if you didn't insult those who were only trying to help. I'm sure people looked at the first few posts and said"fuck this dude" and moved on. Some of those people may have had info for you.

We can wipe the slate clean, but you need to come correct.


--------------------
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A little civility goes a long way

The Noob Forum
The Hammock Hangers' Forum


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OfflineHammburgler
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #18825135 - 09/10/13 08:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

SpitballJedi said:[/b
We can wipe the slate clean, but you need to come correct.



yeah get your mind right yo :laugh:


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OfflineSockadin
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #18825159 - 09/10/13 08:28 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

So lets do that because I don't disagree with this doochy's thinking.

  What nutrients do we know of that mycelium likes to eat?

What is the ideal PH balance for mycelium development?

What are the ideal fruiting conditions for mushroom production?


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InvisibleStygianKnight
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #18825186 - 09/10/13 08:36 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Lol did you really pull the "I was just testing you guys" and you all failed, losers!
This is becoming a hilarious thread.

"I have been diagnosed as schzoaggressive(visual and audio hallucinations), sociopath and I have aspergers syndrome."
That's unfortunate, welcome to the real world, where if you want people to help you, treating them like crap will get you the exact opposite, especially on the internet.


Ok giving you a single benefit of the doubt...
-----

First of all you need to think about what a mushroom really is.
I'll wait…
While I would compare them to other plants or animals I think this is a common trap as they are inherently different thus no comparison will be accurate.

Ultimately you are feeding the mycelium, not the mushroom.
"But I want mushrooms!" you say
Exactly!  Which is why it's best to think beyond just food.  You can come up with the perfect Mycelium feed and it will happily sit around eating it and doing nothing.

Mushrooms are the reproductive bodies of mycelium.  They grow because the mycelium feels like it's time to start getting it on and making some spore babies.  You're just the hotel manager making sure there's no stains on the bed with nice mood lighting, etc.

Dealing with the substrate if you want a place to start looking I would suggest Gypsum and other Calcium and Sulphur containing minerals, they can be added in large amounts without serious detriment.  Now if you want a place to start experimenting (well besides genetics), start researching Nitrogen content and mushrooms.  Multiple studies point to mycelium loving and wanting more nitrogen rich nutrients.  This isn't without its issues as too much Nitrogen rich substrate can destabilize PH levels, burn mycelium and provide a great source of nutrition for contams.

As far as *How* mycelium consumes food, there is a lot of research on that, but a quick description is that it wraps itself around the food, secretes digestive enzymes then sucks it up when it feels like it.  A bit like an inverse stomach.  The mycelium will only consume what it needs at any given time, more nutrients provide a stockpile but don't actually 'bulk' up mycelium like a human body builder.

Frankly it's obvious you are new at this, as almost every newbie wants to find the magical substrate additive that will produce super fruits, and it just doesn't exist.  Mushrooms are not the same as plants or animals and thus often means a different approach than normal.


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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: StygianKnight]
    #18825358 - 09/10/13 09:10 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

well said sir.



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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: Sockadin]
    #18827236 - 09/11/13 10:52 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Feeding shrooms only nutrients sounds like those futuristic programs where people just eat nutrient pills to live. What ever made you think that the shrooms don't like to eat? We could sip on a nutrient broth made from everything we know that our body gets from food but then what the fuck is the point of our enzymes, acids, cell walls etc... Half of the biological cascade is just eating substrate to obtain nutrients. I would suspect if not presented in a food form and rather just nutrients the mushroom or human body wouldn't know WTF to do with it. Appropriate biological signaling wouldn't occur the protein synthesis cascades would fail etc...


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: Shahal Rainrix]
    #18827274 - 09/11/13 11:01 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Shahal Rainrix said:
What I need to know is what shrooms feed on the most so I can make a more powerful substrate. Like if shrooms need carbs, how badly? A list of most needed to least needed would be a big help.

Also, is it possible to feed them with powered and liquid supplements? If that is possible with powers and misters? If I could add those to the substrate when mixing as well as later, topically, could I get a larger or longer lasting flush?

If people would test this for me,I'd be grateful.

NOTE: I am not looking for other peoples substrate blends. I want to make my own with the richest ingredients in order to increase the number of shrooms. This way I can research nutritional values and serving sizes to make my own blend.




The most nutritious substrate is BRF + verm. But you have to keep this sterile until it is fully colonized.

As far as standard (pasteurized) bulk, high nutritional value of the substrate is not going to help much of anything really. Pasteurized bulk substrate is low-nutrient for many reasons.

Highly nutritious substrate will just make everything more likely to contam as well as slowing your colonization and fruiting times significantly.

My 66qt monotubs with a simple substrate (coir/verm) and good genetics will give me 8+ ounce (dry) first flushes any day.

If you are not working with agar (which I don't believe you to be) then the best thing to do for big yields is to get your fruiting conditions dialed in perfectly.

My signature has many links to things I have written that may help you out.

People are just trying to tell you that you should focus less on the substrate.

Now please, calm down before the moderators notice you.

We are just trying to steer you in the right direction. We are a collective of hobby cultivators, not professional mycologists. If you have info to share, please do because it is the same thing we are doing for you :thumbup:


--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


Frank's tips and tricks. Updated on 3/21/14
AMU- Get an answer here -AMU


Edited by FrankHorrigan (09/11/13 11:06 AM)


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18827329 - 09/11/13 11:24 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
Quote:

Shahal Rainrix said:
What I need to know is what shrooms feed on the most so I can make a more powerful substrate. Like if shrooms need carbs, how badly? A list of most needed to least needed would be a big help.

Also, is it possible to feed them with powered and liquid supplements? If that is possible with powers and misters? If I could add those to the substrate when mixing as well as later, topically, could I get a larger or longer lasting flush?

If people would test this for me,I'd be grateful.

NOTE: I am not looking for other peoples substrate blends. I want to make my own with the richest ingredients in order to increase the number of shrooms. This way I can research nutritional values and serving sizes to make my own blend.




The most nutritious substrate is BRF + verm. But you have to keep this sterile until it is fully colonized.

As far as standard (pasteurized) bulk, high nutritional value of the substrate is not going to help much of anything really. Pasteurized bulk substrate is low-nutrient for many reasons.

Highly nutritious substrate will just make everything more likely to contam as well as slowing your colonization and fruiting times significantly.

My 66qt monotubs with a simple substrate (coir/verm) and good genetics will give me 8+ ounce (dry) first flushes any day.

If you are not working with agar (which I don't believe you to be) then the best thing to do for big yields is to get your fruiting conditions dialed in perfectly.

My signature has many links to things I have written that may help you out.

People are just trying to tell you that you should focus less on the substrate.

Now please, calm down before the moderators notice you.

We are just trying to steer you in the right direction. We are a collective of hobby cultivators, not professional mycologists. If you have info to share, please do because it is the same thing we are doing for you :thumbup:




Or show him a plate of what myc looks like on agar that's way to nutritious. I really think mushrooms enjoy the eating part since it's what they're designed to do which means it's very much a part of the whole picture. Throwing race gas into your car wouldn't have wonderful effects it's not made to eat super octane gas. There's a lot of better options that would make your car faster.


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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: Shahal Rainrix]
    #18827443 - 09/11/13 11:54 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Shahal Rainrix said:
Like I said before, I wanted fresh perspective.




You aren't asking for "perspective", otherwise you would have searched for some tried and true actual scientific data through google or the shroomery search engine.

You got perspectives on what you should focus on for bigger yields, but your response is to post the answer you think you should have gotten instead :rolleyes:

Here's a post on an ideal substrate and why it is so: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/3466237#3466237

I'm sure that won't suit your fancy either, but YOU'RE WELCOME anyway.


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: FooMan]
    #18827503 - 09/11/13 12:09 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

FooMan said:
Here's a post on an ideal substrate and why it is so: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/3466237#3466237




:thumbup:

Good ol' agar, where is he nowadays?

PS. Shahal, it seems a moderator has noticed you. Play nice.


--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


Frank's tips and tricks. Updated on 3/21/14
AMU- Get an answer here -AMU


Edited by FrankHorrigan (09/11/13 12:14 PM)


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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: Feeding Shroom (Need Help w/ info) [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18827669 - 09/11/13 12:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
Good ol' agar, where is he nowadays?





I've heard all sorts of rumors regarding his health and possible passing, but none of them were ever confirmed. I swear he has popped in under different aliases since we last saw him, but the members I suspected were his aliases have since disappeared also.

I wish he was still around. He was definitely an innovator, provided a wealth of information to everyone and was a huge influence on our community. He was among the first TC's appointed on the board and I believe he is the only TC to this day to be appointed a TC despite his account being inactive for some time prior to the tag being created.

The guy was a legend and I still refer back to his posts first when I have questions of my own. He is definitely missed :frown:


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