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OfflineTerry M
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"The Sacred Mushroom and The Cross: A study of the nature and origins of Christianity within
    #18810810 - 09/07/13 08:47 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Here's a book that some here may like:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Sacred-Mushroom-Cross-Christianity/dp/0982556276

I haven't read it, but a friend posted it to me, and I thought I'd share it with anyone here interested.


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Liberté, égalité, humidité.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: [Re: Terry M]
    #18810936 - 09/07/13 09:27 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Well, read Allegro first, then maybe discuss it. He was largely discredited at the end of his life by most scholars of Christian history. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Allegro Look into Andrija Puharich's work too  http://www.amazon.com/The-Sacred-Mushroom-Door-Eternity/dp/B001NPNT8G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1378567787&sr=8-1&keywords=andrija+puharich ; This is not to say that some Christians did not employ Amanita muscaria mushrooms into their worship (shoot, I do with P. cubensis), but that since the New Testament is mythic for the most part, that speaks for itself in terms of the alteration of consciousness. Myths are the conceptual lenses through which we see the world, and we all have mythic elements informing us whether we're religious or not. The very unconscious is structured by myths, archetypes. Dreams, superstitions, beliefs, fairy tales, and folk lore all have mythic foundations, and we all are informed by some or all of these in varying degrees, conscious of them or not. Authors Carl Ruck and Clark Heinrich see Amanitas EVERYWHERE!

http://distelrath.tripod.com/fabbro.htm


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18811766 - 09/07/13 02:20 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Interesting book! :thatistroubling:

His conclusion might have been off.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #18812293 - 09/07/13 05:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Puharich had to learn hieroglyphics just to pursue his hypothesis. It seems to be true that a majority of NT stories were lifted almost verbatim from the Egyptian Pyramid and Coffin Texts. If so, there is a direct line between Christianity (probably via Alexandria, Egypt) and ancient Egyptian practices. But Allegro's hypothesis was purely fanciful IMO.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18812346 - 09/07/13 05:44 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

What of the deconstruction of the language?  And why would he make up such a claim?


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #18813488 - 09/07/13 11:40 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Delusional I suppose. :shrug: Delusionals can't simply be blamed for making shit up. Ideas hit like a bolt of lightning. They're received as insights, revelations.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinep-nut
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Re: [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18813949 - 09/08/13 03:08 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

It's fairly important to really to try and read this book before discussing it.
Anybody with a boner for the comparative morphology of Semitic languages will love it!
For the rest of us, we will have to be satisfied that Jesus and Amanita Muscaria (and Santa!) come with a red and white dominant color scheme, and that badly drawn trees can sometimes look like mushrooms, if you squint your eyes.
Allegro's career and the controversy he sometimes provoked are a pretty interesting subject in itself. At least, unlike Wasson, he could read the primary texts on which his theory hinged.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: [Re: p-nut]
    #18815397 - 09/08/13 02:10 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Good points, all. Most people don't go so far as to relegate the Jesus of the Bible to religious myth, but insist that it is all historical narrative (AS IF there was a reporter from the Bethlehem, or Nazareth Gazette, taking notes on an astronomical anomaly that shone down upon a tiny manger in which a 16 year old Jewish virgin had just delivered her first child. In my experience, a 16 year old Jewish virgin is miracle enough, but I digress). If one's base-line is a historical worker of healings and resuscitations, one struggles to find rational explanations for inexplicable phenomena. One approach is to read the entire written account as metaphor, which is fine, and the answer then lies in myth-making. But if one instead attributes myth to a metaphor for a religious mystery tradition that is centered on a mycological sacrament, weirdness obviously results. Not only that, while I have not yet imbibed A. muscaria, I understand that it is not a reliable source of anything transcendental in nature. The copious salivation, lethargy, and delirium that I've read about doesn't make sense to me (outside of Fabbro Franco's work http://distelrath.tripod.com/fabbro.htm). I get Viking Berserkers in the North using it, as well as Siberian shamans, after watching their reindeer consume them and even watching their reindeer drink each other's urine. But the Soma of the Rig Vedas seems to me to be the 'golden' caps of Psilocybian species, springing up from cow dung, thereby imparting sacrality to that cow dung (which, unfortunately has been anointing infant's umbilicals for centuries, and causing a 25% infant mortality from tetanus bacilli). I contend that the cow is sacred because of the Sacred Mushroom, but that is my own idiosyncratic idea.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinep-nut
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Re: [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18815475 - 09/08/13 02:39 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Interesting!
A digression, but while we are talking about Soma, there are butt-loads of plants with various effects well known to ayurvedic practitioners, some common, some regional, that are excellent candidates for a mind bending Soma. Foremost is ganja, the sub-continental psychotropic par excellence, but a bit too common and beatnik-y for Wasson!
As to sub-continental mushroom use, I don't know, but I lived in India for years and never heard of them being used. Indeed, I lived in Orissa, where the currently popularly available South Asian spores come from (or do they?).
As for the eating of cows; the very widespread proscription amongst meat-eating caste Hindus against eating specifically female animals is all too often missing from discussions of why Hindus don't eat cows. Dunno why?


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: [Re: p-nut]
    #18815758 - 09/08/13 04:03 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

One understanding about mushrooms is that their effects gave rise to Yoga practices. I know from a lifetime of psychedelic use that I need Hatha Yoga to move the pooled energy in my Manipura chakra, if only a Bow posture. Other asanas also help with moving the energy around. Perhaps Yoga morphed from its shamanic roots to its non-substance status because yogis wanted to be free of externals. Neem Karolie Baba supposedly said, after taking LSD, that 'these substances were known in the Kulu Valley long ago, but the knowledge was lost,' or was it? Maybe it was made secret, or rejected. The Buddha is sometimes depicted with a 'medicine bowl.' In my back yard, a statue has a mushroom I put in his medicine bowl to make a point. One version of Buddha's death is due to bad pork. The other is from accidental mushroom poisoning. I think the latter is more probable than Buddha eating a dead pig.

There's a hypothesis that Amanitas became unavailable in India, but unlike yourself, I've never visited there and it's a big place. Amanitas only grow in a relationship with the rhizome-systems of certain pine trees, where they spring up in 'fairy circles' around the edges of the root system. I've seen pics, and my friend sent me pics and specimens. Do Amanitas even grow in India? I don't know about now, let alone several millennia ago.



--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18816130 - 09/08/13 05:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I know they grow under rhododendron bushes in Seattle.  I've had my fair share of experiences and I've never had the effects that you speak of.


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #18816134 - 09/08/13 05:55 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

If anything it was power, truth, and clarity, although anger.


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