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Offlinezzripz
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #18731805 - 08/20/13 11:26 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:
It's bullshit. There is nobody who has experienced ego death before death. It started as a statement about feeling loss of personal identity. I suggest this is more a feeling or thought thing, and not an ego thing.

I hate all those smily empty headed beatniks who think because they are high and have no material goods that they are spiritual - closer to truth - or egoless. The most 'egoless' people I have ever talked to really get touchy when you question them.

Enough already. Ego death is a travesty, a mere subjective blip, and not a real state, spiritual or otherwise.

The people who experience the closest thing to ego death are sociopaths and borderline personalities.

Why continue to promote this bullshit concept?

The spiritual experience is based in love.




Depends who is claiming it. For example have you heard about the Skull and Bones secret society that three generations of the Bush family were initiated in? Apparently part of that initiation is so-called 'ego death' where the initiate is even in a coffin! But, we we can see, whatever is "reborn" from that shit turns out a psycho. So THAT is not what I would recommend as authentic ego death. That is more the rebirth of a mammoth ego that pledges secret oaths of allegiance to their secret gang. So it sure aint THAT!

I also question the Jungian concept of the 'Self' which is supposed to be a death of the ego, and birth of a "Self", because it is too much part of the patriarchal hero monomyth who creates a static image of himself--or God-image, and resists through fear immersion into nature's visionary depths.

What I feel is the authentic ego-transcendence is part of lunar mythology not solar mythology, and this is where the initiate ecstatically immerses into the visionary realms of the Goddess, often with psychedelic inspiration, and then feels a deep ecstatic sense of merging with the natural world. Not feeling egotistically cut off, distant, and superior to others, other species and nature, but realizing that all of nature and life is a dynamic living process which is cyclic and self-regenerating and interconnected.


Edited by zzripz (08/20/13 11:28 AM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: zzripz]
    #18735025 - 08/20/13 11:15 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I also question the Jungian concept of the 'Self' which is supposed to be a death of the ego, and birth of a "Self", because it is too much part of the patriarchal hero monomyth who creates a static image of himself--or God-image, and resists through fear immersion into nature's visionary depths.

I believe that Individuation is a matter of the formation of an ego-Self axis, where in western myth, Jesus and God represent the ego and Self respectively. A strong ego-Self axis constellates Synchronicities (miracles) around one who manifests it. This is based on Edward Edinger's book Ego and Archetype. The ego emerges from the Self, the Great Round, the Great Mother-Mater-Matrix of the Unconscious. But Jung falls into the "Pre-Trans fallacy," that Wilber brilliantly explicated. Jung left the Superconscious out of his theories. He confused archetypal with universal, and immersion in the Unconscious with the Transcendental. Jung refused to meet Ramana Maharshi, obviously intimidated by the possibility of being corrected, he said only, "I know the type." No he didn't. So I agree with you on Jung's [mis]understanding of the Self.

What I feel is the authentic ego-transcendence is part of lunar mythology not solar mythology, and this is where the initiate ecstatically immerses into the visionary realms of the Goddess, often with psychedelic inspiration, and then feels a deep ecstatic sense of merging with the natural world. Not feeling egotistically cut off, distant, and superior to others, other species and nature, but realizing that all of nature and life is a dynamic living process which is cyclic and self-regenerating and interconnected.


I too feel the truth about the Lunar, but I believe in a Conjunction of Solar-Lunar principles. There is the Gnostic Christ-Sophia, the Alchemical Marriage, Shiva-Shakti, Yin-Yang, etc., etc.. Coincidentia Oppositorum.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlineeve69
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18736042 - 08/21/13 05:59 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

some beautiful writings in this thread


--------------------
...or something







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OfflineHannahMichelle
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #18788032 - 09/02/13 01:55 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I believe I have experienced ego death, and I don't believe I'm crazy. But who knows.(: I'm now beginning to think it's not a positive [spiritual?] experience but rather a negative one. Maybe it's not something humans were meant to be able to do, but because there's sin and Satan in the world, like adam and eve wished to gain knowledge.. Some people use it to gain knowledge too. In the long run or bigger picture maybe it's bad.. Keep an open mind!! It's definitely real though.


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: HannahMichelle]
    #18793647 - 09/03/13 09:57 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Ego death to me means and end to the illusion that we are only our minds or bodies.  And while lots of people might accept this intellectually, the true ego death, as evidenced by psychedelics, is a really powerful experience where you perceive something that might even be highly analogous to physical death.


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


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Offlineeve69
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: HannahMichelle]
    #18794003 - 09/03/13 11:40 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

HannahMichelle said:
I believe I have experienced ego death, and I don't believe I'm crazy. But who knows.(: I'm now beginning to think it's not a positive [spiritual?] experience but rather a negative one. Maybe it's not something humans were meant to be able to do, but because there's sin and Satan in the world, like adam and eve wished to gain knowledge.. Some people use it to gain knowledge too. In the long run or bigger picture maybe it's bad.. Keep an open mind!! It's definitely real though.





In Hinduism there's some type fof mental phenomenon called 'ritam bhara pragyam' which means 'mind which envisions' and in yogic speak your have the mind's eye which is programmed to give you visuals of what you think as your dreams should proove. You can envision demons in 3d with the right helpers, but they still come from you.

All this talk of gods and demons but will you share your groceries?


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OfflineHannahMichelle
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #18796408 - 09/03/13 08:56 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:
Quote:

HannahMichelle said:
I believe I have experienced ego death, and I don't believe I'm crazy. But who knows.(: I'm now beginning to think it's not a positive [spiritual?] experience but rather a negative one. Maybe it's not something humans were meant to be able to do, but because there's sin and Satan in the world, like adam and eve wished to gain knowledge.. Some people use it to gain knowledge too. In the long run or bigger picture maybe it's bad.. Keep an open mind!! It's definitely real though.





In Hinduism there's some type fof mental phenomenon called 'ritam bhara pragyam' which means 'mind which envisions' and in yogic speak your have the mind's eye which is programmed to give you visuals of what you think as your dreams should proove. You can envision demons in 3d with the right helpers, but they still come from you.

All this talk of gods and demons but will you share your groceries?





I hear you and consider what you have said.

What do you mean am I willing to share my groceries?


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Offlinecrkhd
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #18798074 - 09/04/13 05:35 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:
Quote:

HannahMichelle said:
I believe I have experienced ego death, and I don't believe I'm crazy. But who knows.(: I'm now beginning to think it's not a positive [spiritual?] experience but rather a negative one. Maybe it's not something humans were meant to be able to do, but because there's sin and Satan in the world, like adam and eve wished to gain knowledge.. Some people use it to gain knowledge too. In the long run or bigger picture maybe it's bad.. Keep an open mind!! It's definitely real though.





In Hinduism there's some type fof mental phenomenon called 'ritam bhara pragyam' which means 'mind which envisions' and in yogic speak your have the mind's eye which is programmed to give you visuals of what you think as your dreams should proove. You can envision demons in 3d with the right helpers, but they still come from you.


All this talk of gods and demons but will you share your groceries?






I like you.



"All this talk of gods and demons but will you share your groceries?"

This is where spirituality begins, and ends. /thread/forum/internet/life


--------------------


"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."

"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker

"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific


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Offlinelolwut
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: crkhd]
    #18798100 - 09/04/13 05:46 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

crkhd said:
Quote:

eve69 said:
Quote:

HannahMichelle said:
I believe I have experienced ego death, and I don't believe I'm crazy. But who knows.(: I'm now beginning to think it's not a positive [spiritual?] experience but rather a negative one. Maybe it's not something humans were meant to be able to do, but because there's sin and Satan in the world, like adam and eve wished to gain knowledge.. Some people use it to gain knowledge too. In the long run or bigger picture maybe it's bad.. Keep an open mind!! It's definitely real though.





In Hinduism there's some type fof mental phenomenon called 'ritam bhara pragyam' which means 'mind which envisions' and in yogic speak your have the mind's eye which is programmed to give you visuals of what you think as your dreams should proove. You can envision demons in 3d with the right helpers, but they still come from you.


All this talk of gods and demons but will you share your groceries?






I like you.



"All this talk of gods and demons but will you share your groceries?"

This is where spirituality begins, and ends. /thread/forum/internet/life




:lol::thumbup:


--------------------
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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #18807048 - 09/06/13 11:26 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:

The spiritual experience is based in love.




A lesson for your ego? :wink:

Quote:

eve69 said:

I hate all those smily empty headed beatniks...




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Offlineeve69
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #18808282 - 09/06/13 05:06 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

If you don't hate you don't love. Knowing when to love and when to hate is wisdom. I just practice at the wisdom here, sometimes not so well, aye, ahahahahahahahahahhaahahhahahhahahaa

Give a man a hand and he becomes himself.
A woman too.

nimble wit
but quicker finger


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...or something







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Offlineg00ru
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #18808340 - 09/06/13 05:20 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:
If you don't hate you don't love.




i would disagree with that. anger or even hatred might be a feeling that arises...but it's certainly not needed to feel a state of love or compassion.


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: g00ru]
    #18808902 - 09/06/13 07:16 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Life is dualism.  If everyone could just feel love then they would.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineeve69
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: Icelander]
    #18809021 - 09/06/13 07:41 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Love is a complex emption. But if you say you love everybody then you love nobody in particular, and if you say you're compassionate to all, then (1) I know you're fucking psychotic, and (2) you aren't gonna get better soon.


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69] * 1
    #18809496 - 09/06/13 09:30 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:
if you say you're compassionate to all, then (1) I know you're fucking psychotic, and (2) you aren't gonna get better
soon.




well it's certainly something to cultivate...apparently you put no value in the concept of a buddha or boddhisattva?


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


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Offlineeve69
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: g00ru]
    #18810556 - 09/07/13 05:13 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I put no stock or faith in people with Bodhisattva complex.  They are more likely to sit around with piteous faces then to actually do something. If your intention is as a Bodhisattva then circumstances line up for you to accrue merit, you do not have to act all righteous. You might think I've missed the point, but I assure you that the point is larger than the words involved, and has to do with actions not ones tender wittle feewings.

For instance, a friend and I were at an outdoor weekend concert and we had gotten fresh cold beers. We were walking and saw a girl collapse. In our compassion we stopped and held our cold drinks to her neck and face while someone got a medic. That's compassion. The action in the moment defies feelings, thoughts, and actions and is not llinear. You can study up on your Bodhisattvaness your whole life and never take one fucking action to help others. I find that quite often amongst the compassionate bunch. Or else they rake you over the coals for help and jerk off your guilt feelings, thinking they're giving you a chance to evolve. The concept of compassion isn't as straight forward or simple as it seems.

You obviously didn't get my little aphorism there.  But say, if you try to love many women, they will all get jealous and cut your dick off when you're sleeping. So compassion and love for all is in fact compassion and love for none.  I am really sayin something huh?!

Furthermore, the Bodhisattva vows to benefit all sentient beings is so rote that it stops having meaning.  The intention, not the words or the high falutin Bodhisattva precepts.  You need not say some ritual formulation before and after meditation. "I am compassionate and sitting on my ass for all sentient beings, etc..."  Fact is, helping oneself spiritually develop and gain more sensitivity through meditation is ipso facto a benevolent action which show compassion integrally.  Formulaic notions lifestyle and religion do little to help one in exceptional behavior.


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Offlinelolwut
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #18810574 - 09/07/13 05:29 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:
I put no stock or faith in people with Bodhisattva complex.  They are more likely to sit around with piteous faces then to actually do something. If your intention is as a Bodhisattva then circumstances line up for you to accrue merit, you do not have to act all righteous. You might think I've missed the point, but I assure you that the point is larger than the words involved, and has to do with actions not ones tender wittle feewings.

For instance, a friend and I were at an outdoor weekend concert and we had gotten fresh cold beers. We were walking and saw a girl collapse. In our compassion we stopped and held our cold drinks to her neck and face while someone got a medic. That's compassion. The action in the moment defies feelings, thoughts, and actions and is not llinear. You can study up on your Bodhisattvaness your whole life and never take one fucking action to help others. I find that quite often amongst the compassionate bunch. Or else they rake you over the coals for help and jerk off your guilt feelings, thinking they're giving you a chance to evolve. The concept of compassion isn't as straight forward or simple as it seems.

You obviously didn't get my little aphorism there.  But say, if you try to love many women, they will all get jealous and cut your dick off when you're sleeping. So compassion and love for all is in fact compassion and love for none.  I am really sayin something huh?!

Furthermore, the Bodhisattva vows to benefit all sentient beings is so rote that it stops having meaning.  The intention, not the words or the high falutin Bodhisattva precepts.  You need not say some ritual formulation before and after meditation. "I am compassionate and sitting on my ass for all sentient beings, etc..."  Fact is, helping oneself spiritually develop and gain more sensitivity through meditation is ipso facto a benevolent action which show compassion integrally.  Formulaic notions lifestyle and religion do little to help one in exceptional behavior.





:raisemyglass:


--------------------
Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth, and taste...

:haha:


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #18810582 - 09/07/13 05:34 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:
If you don't hate you don't love.




It might be said that without the existence of hate, there cannot be love which would ring true, however a person does not have to practice hate to practice love.

If a person is dedicating time to hating, they are dedicating time to the ego which taxes directly from the spiritual.

You can work with the essence or you can project what is not.


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Offlineeve69
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #18810640 - 09/07/13 06:50 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Actually, look through history and see the wars of all those egoless lovers of spirituality. That's the raw truth. 

Denying, and transmuting, and subjugating, and mortifying ones negative emotions is not such a good outlet for them as merely utilizing those powerful emotions in a positive manner.

Denying feelings denying ego, in fact denial at all relegates those things to someplace where they don't go away but get bigger unseen.

I am sorry for all of you who have been taught not to feel not to think and not to have egos. You have all been manipulated by people who were like, "don't hate, here let me suck your weiner. It's not good to hate. "  Actually it is very good to hate, and to act upon it, when it is just.


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: I'm tired of this bullshit travesty called ego death. [Re: eve69]
    #18810692 - 09/07/13 07:34 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

It's not about denying ego.

If a person claims they are "egoless", however true that may or may not be, they have by means of the suffix "less" already proposed that ego does exist. They have in reality, perhaps, just made it a less prominent part of their being.

People who live less by the ego, don't have to contend with the problems related to herding and expressing negative emotions for the simple fact that they don't allow resource for it to manifest in the first place. 

A hateful person isn't doing good by cultivating it in the comfort of knowing they can release.  They are just chanelling the same energy elsewhere albeit in a different format. Your accusation of manipulation and "sucking weiner" comment was a transmutation right here from your own deep rooted dislike of people who have a contrary opinion in the discussion. Perhaps such words are a personal release, but there's no universal benefit.  You'll only evoke angst in others in the exact same way that this post might do the same to you.  Note the energy transfer which spawned from you and might return to you (in a small scale loop) It's all simple stuff. :wink:

Anyone who deems it "good to hate" has demonstrated unquestionably that they are significantly disconnected from the spiritual self since hate is the single most powerful component of the ego which is an unpure projection of who a persons assumes themselves to be or who they want to be.


Edited by Duncan Rowhl (09/07/13 07:58 AM)


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