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Dawks
Jolly African Potato


Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 4,935
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: The_Aviator]
#18809693 - 09/06/13 10:24 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
The_Aviator said: Sure, we can't know if there is no god. But we also can't know for certain that there aren't fairies, for example. How do we treat that?
We treat fairies exactly like I said I treat God in my first post.
Subjectively I experience fairies. Out of the corner of my eye, little things I can't explain. Certain synchronicities.
Of course objectively you could assert that what I'm experiencing is nothing more than the lasting effects for countless LSD trips and is nothing more than HPPD, delusion or psychosis. However internally these things are little creatures, with personalities and the works. Having this brings me joy and is something I actively choose to cultivate.
Like with God, you'll never prove my fairies exist. Because though a scientific lens they don't. They are manifestations of my mind. This doesn't mean they can't be shared however: Like with God, I can point out my fairies to open minded folk who can integrate them into their philosophy too and share in the magic.
Quote:
The_Aviator said: Below is the short transcript from the Feynman quote:
Quote:
I have a friend who's an artist and has sometimes taken a view which I don't agree with very well. He'll hold up a flower and say "look how beautiful it is," and I'll agree. Then he says "I as an artist can see how beautiful this is but you as a scientist take this all apart and it becomes a dull thing," and I think that he's kind of nutty. First of all, the beauty that he sees is available to other people and to me too, I believe. Although I may not be quite as refined aesthetically as he is ... I can appreciate the beauty of a flower. At the same time, I see much more about the flower than he sees. I could imagine the cells in there, the complicated actions inside, which also have a beauty. I mean it's not just beauty at this dimension, at one centimeter; there's also beauty at smaller dimensions, the inner structure, also the processes. The fact that the colors in the flower evolved in order to attract insects to pollinate it is interesting; it means that insects can see the color. It adds a question: does this aesthetic sense also exist in the lower forms? Why is it aesthetic? All kinds of interesting questions which the science knowledge only adds to the excitement, the mystery and the awe of a flower. It only adds. I don't understand how it subtracts.
~Richard Feynman
Oh yeah I seen someone quote that before.
I think it's a slightly different thing though when applied to the brain.
For instance, what is the color blue? Objectively speaking the color blue is a reflection of a particular wavelength of electromagnetic radiation onto the retina. Upon hitting the retina some chemical reaction takes place and sends a signal to the brain and we react by perceiving "blue."
Okay so that's the how. By I like to ponder as to the where... you know, that place where the color blue actually happens. Like I know there is probably a collection of cells in my visual cortex at the back of my head. But that's not what I'm experiencing, I'm experiencing the color blue on some kind of inner canvas but where exactly is that place/space? it's not in the outside world, it's inside and it's not bound by the laws of the universe.
I call it the mindscape. But I'm sure being better read than I you could give it a fancier name.
I understand the whole flower thing and agree with it. Scientific understanding can, in some people, lead to an enhanced appreciation of some things. But where is this appreciation happening? this experience is more than just an activation of neurons, if you catch my drift.
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date ; unzip ; strip ; touch ; grep ; finger ; mount ; fsck ; more ; yes ; umount ; sleep
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Blend
afferent orchestra


Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 2,949
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: JoieDeVivre]
#18809703 - 09/06/13 10:27 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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JoieDeVivre said:
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deadendeavor said: the definition I've grown so accustomed to. ...
I don't care what some people think this or that word means.
Clearly you only care about your own definition of a position you neither understand nor hold. Like another poster correctly said, asserting that agnosticism makes sense and atheism does not means you're dealing with epistimological issues. You're dealing with what we can and can't know. I'm not. I'm saying we can make reasonable inferences based on the evidence presented to us, which is what I have done with my atheism. Any new evidence I find leads to an integration of that into my current worldview. If it makes my worldview in question, I asses both and do further investigation then revise my view if necessary. So I don't need to claim "I don't know" because it's obvious we all don't know many things. If you say we can't know about god, you're basically calling all claims of knowledge into question. Are you agnostic about Santa Clause?
Btw, why is that that anyone is entitled to their own permutation of theism but people like you act like atheism can't come in different flavors?
I'm not arguing your theistic stance Joie. I'm merely pointing out there is a definition of the word that is not correctly being used here. That's really it. I haven't brought your, my, or anyone else's belief or lack thereof into question. I think it's stupid to have a word be open to interpretation. It completely destroys the point. And again I'll say you can call yourself atheist if that's what you want to do. But you aren't using the word in the way most people would, which will cause unnecessary confusion to people who prefer to just use the damn word the right way.
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JoieDeVivre
Hippie Babysitter



Registered: 10/13/11
Posts: 5,751
Loc: Gamehenge
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Nova] 3
#18809706 - 09/06/13 10:27 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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No one said there was proof of absence. 
However there is certainly logical deductions that can be done with all human knowledge and the tenets of theistic doctrines. Unless you manipulate the theistic doctrines to something that solely resides in pockets of ignorance, it's pretty obvious humans have been wrong about divinity for all of history. I mean when you study any theistic doctrine most of them are heavily rooted in completely human ideas with the caveat that paradoxes = divinity which just means that what is incomprehensible we assume is some magical entity. If you study history, humans have always used religion to fill in the gaps of knowledge. So in my mind anything someone else says about religion or god, unless confirmed by my own experience, is more of a projection of their own mind than a verifiable conclusion of anything "divine".
-------------------- Sapere aude "We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."
UBUNTU- I am because we are.
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Nova

Registered: 10/16/02
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: JoieDeVivre]
#18809969 - 09/06/13 11:26 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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And how long were humans wrong when they claimed that the earth was flat? Until their ignorance on the subject was lessened. Agnostics accept their own ignorance towards the matter of the existence of god. Atheists assert a belief on the subject of god (just like religions people do), hence why OP calls them simple minded.
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!



Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: morrowasted] 1
#18809995 - 09/06/13 11:41 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I've always been confused about the distinction between agnosticism and atheism... whenever I call out atheists for projecting their own opinions onto the larger world via scientism, they insist that atheism is passive, that it's an absence of belief rather than the actual (often strident) belief that there is no god. So then what sets it apart from agnosticism at all? I'm onto you guys.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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Blend
afferent orchestra


Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 2,949
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Quote:
BlindSophist said: I've always been confused about the distinction between agnosticism and atheism... whenever I call out atheists for projecting their own opinions onto the larger world via scientism, they insist that atheism is passive, that it's an absence of belief rather than the actual (often strident) belief that there is no god. So then what sets it apart from agnosticism at all? I'm onto you guys. 
Sorry, Soph, our narrow reasoning isn't wanted here. I know it would seem as though this were a matter of fact, but obviously atheism can mean whatever you want now.
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omegafaust
mycofarmer



Registered: 05/29/12
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Blend] 3
#18810018 - 09/06/13 11:54 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Regardless of your semantics, i think it is absolutely hilarious that someone can presume athfism = close minded, when most atheists agree with proven science compared to all the religion who are following more or less the same spiritual path as civilization of old for a couple thousand years. i believe close minded is more likely of a theist, follow a path that has been placed before them by someone else. and a lot of theist are very, very stuck in their ways and see 'atheism' as a big problem.
not changing or being open to other ideals is close minded.
On seconf thought,, op's original post was pretty close minded...
-------------------- The Universe has an interesting sense of irony, in that you are the universe experiencing itself. All you are is a thought.
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!



Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Blend] 1
#18810021 - 09/06/13 11:55 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Noun[edit] atheism (plural atheisms) 1. (narrowly) Belief that no deities exist (sometimes including rejection of other religious beliefs). [quotations ▼] 2. (broadly) Rejection of belief that any deities exist (with or without a belief that no deities exist). [quotations ▼] 3. (very broadly) Absence of belief that any deities exist (including absence of the concept of deities). [quotations ▼] 4. (loosely, uncommon) Absence of belief in a particular deity, pantheon, or religious doctrine (notwithstanding belief in other deities)
Self-identification implies a very narrow use of a word. Atheism is a broad movement, but there is no smaller unit of atheism than an individual person.
The definition to which Joie refers is definitely being used inappropriately. Anybody who self-identifies as an atheist obviously does have a concept of god(s) which they are able to reject.
But many atheists refuse to admit that their atheism is a belief. They are, after all, above such quaint illogic as untestable beliefs, so they must bury it under logical-sounding scientific notions of how reality should be apprehended.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
Edited by Sophistic Radiance (09/07/13 01:04 AM)
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper



Registered: 10/30/09
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Loc: House of Mirrors
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Accepted definition my ass. No such thing. to if someone asks if I am an atheist I will say no and I will not say that I am an atheist. That is my prerogative. I have my own motives and you don't get to tell me what I am. Everyone has their own lexicon; only rain man has webster in his head. don't even try arguing this point with me guys. you will only make yourselves look ignorant
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!



Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: morrowasted]
#18810056 - 09/07/13 12:10 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well then, what is the difference between agnosticism and atheism? Why do we have two words for (what I'm told is) one thing?
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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ModestMouse
IM WALKIN ON SUNSHINE


Registered: 05/06/13
Posts: 19,227
Loc: Upstate
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: morrowasted] 6
#18810058 - 09/07/13 12:10 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Op is small minded.
-------------------- Anyone got a lowpass filter in this biiiiash?
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper



Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,378
Loc: House of Mirrors
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Quote:
BlindSophist said: Well then, what is the difference between agnosticism and atheism? Why do we have two words for (what I'm told is) one thing?
agnosticism is the belief that knowledge is impossible. that doesn't mean god is impossible. it means the question is stupid
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,691
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: morrowasted]
#18810285 - 09/07/13 02:15 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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If you separate language from the non-linguistic concepts and 'real-world' phenomena it is generally used to refer to and start to reason using language only, bereft of any real meaning, it will fold in on itself - it will collapse. It will result in alternative explanations for phenomena that make sense linguistically, but not necessarily conceptually.
Having said that, I consider myself agnostic for methodological reasons: no satisfactory experiment or line of reasoning has ever been set up proving or disproving God. If there is a God, then I think his biggest trick yet is that he has been hiding in plain sight all the time.
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Beanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX


Registered: 10/11/08
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Dawks] 2
#18810573 - 09/07/13 05:29 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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can't explain.
must be fairies.
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rulesq
Bad Mogambo



Registered: 05/10/13
Posts: 5,317
Loc: Суомалиа
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Beanhead]
#18810586 - 09/07/13 05:37 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Fairies that were brought here by
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Apollyphelion
Dungeon Master/Princess(1009)


Registered: 03/15/07
Posts: 16,757
Loc: Festival of Deaths
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: rulesq] 5
#18810609 - 09/07/13 06:10 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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To quote XKCD,
the important thing here OP is that you found a way to feel superior to both theists and atheists.
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"I'm looking at you looking at it" SUBSCRIBE TO MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL PLEASE! www.youtube.com/apollyphelion Creator of the World's Worst Comic Book
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UnholyChild666
I'M GOD

Registered: 03/26/06
Posts: 8,940
Loc:
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: morrowasted]
#18810743 - 09/07/13 08:04 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm God rich kid I'll decide what is and isn't.
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"I am the Highest Power the leader of the pack" Actiavte My Dream Sequence Machine GOD of the hologram earth
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ModestMouse
IM WALKIN ON SUNSHINE


Registered: 05/06/13
Posts: 19,227
Loc: Upstate
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Quote:
UnholyChild666 said: I'm God rich kid I'll decide what is and isn't.
My favorite part about you is that you consistently shitpost in every religious thread thus destroying the thread so no one has to deal with it.
-------------------- Anyone got a lowpass filter in this biiiiash?
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BittrBuffalo
Deaconica

Registered: 05/19/13
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: morrowasted]
#18813337 - 09/07/13 10:46 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm less interested in the OP's definition of atheism and more interested in why he's bothered by what he believes that atheists believe (or don't believe). If you're not an atheist, why do you care?
-------------------- Disclaimer: This post is a work of fiction, provided for entertainment purposes only. Any resemblance to actual persons or events, past or present, is strictly coincidental. All celebrity voices are impersonated. If you begin your ID request with, "I just ate a bunch of these mushrooms…should I not have done that?" I'm just gonna sit back and watch Darwin at work.
Edited by BittrBuffalo (09/07/13 10:48 PM)
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wtffuck


Registered: 03/31/12
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Your small minded, you don't even know what you believe.
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