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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper



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atheism is small minded. 3
#18809034 - 09/06/13 07:43 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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it misses the bigger picture by not understanding the relationship between their lexicon, their use of logic, and their perceptions. The kind of person who says he is an atheist is typically trapped inside closed loop of the same deductive and inductive lines of reasoning until they eventually realize that the question is simply malformed. It could very easily be the case that people have just gotten a whole lot better at talking about the same thing they've always been talking about, but it may also be the case that truth is impossible because language captures a reality which always exists in one's perceptual past
if I am comepelled to label myself at all, I call my agnostic, meaning its literally definition, without knowledge. It does not rule out belief. I believe at all sorts of things at various moments that allow me to function with the world around me. I used to say I believed in God because I was raised that way but now I don’t. I don’t say I’m atheist, and if you ask me, I’ll say no. I don’t not believe in God. I think God is a Word that can mean anything. It’s silly to me that people with supposedly scientific attidudes act like there is some sort of mystical floating universal lexicon. Dictionaries are a relatively recent invention and language is a constantly changing organism. The fact remains that nothing explains existence in general. I have ideas in the realm of ontological philosophy and if I tell them people it sometimes sounds like I’m a cooky youtube addicted nutjob who has never read a book in his life but it isn’t true. I’ve read a shitload more books tan most people. I can have casual conversation at a decent level about topics ranging from classic literature to linguistics to biochemistry and astrophysics. Most of that is self education but I am pretty well educated as well as I am working towards a PhD. If if I were forced at gunpoint to say I believed something, I’d say something like this, “There is something like ontological reality, often colloquailly referred to as existence. There is something like ontological order, which means that ontological reality is somehow divided into different kinds such that each kind cannot be said to be co-existing by any kind which exists subordinate to those kinds to which the speaker is referring. The first kind of these things is what we call light. There were however three things which can be said to have co-existed. Those are the things commonly reffered to as space, perception, and something like a correlative processing computer for managing that perception. The first thing the perception did is alter the subordinate ontologically kind such that it represented all of that we currently refer to as the collective particles of light in the universe. The thing we call darkness became the thing which exists in the absence of light which is created by perceptual obstructions. The can next ontological kind created by perception was substance. THen you can roughly say that what is commonly called the big bang happened. The big bang was essentially sound. Vibrating subtance in a space. The rest is history. Primitive people have worshipped all sorts of things but oftentimes they were trying to address the basic proposition of existence, which, after all remains unexplained and probably unexplainable.
There are more things on heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy. William Shakespeare
Edited by morrowasted (09/06/13 07:59 PM)
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Camwritesgonzo
The Unflushable Stool



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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: morrowasted] 18
#18809045 - 09/06/13 07:45 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Atheism is a non-prophet organization.
-------------------- "I've always maintained that reality is for those who can't face drugs."-Tom Waits "I feel the same way about disco as I feel about herpes."-Hunter S. Thompson A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?
 
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Gilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: morrowasted] 5
#18809047 - 09/06/13 07:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Religion has failed everytime at explaining the universe science while not perfect improves over time instead of relying on what old goat herders thought thousands of years ago.
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JoieDeVivre
Hippie Babysitter



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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Gilgamesh18] 2
#18809050 - 09/06/13 07:47 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Atheism means not being theistic. I agree that people use god to mean anything. That doesn't mean I'm a theist. I'm not small minded because I'm not a theist. There is no evidence for theism and as such I do not subscribe to the belief system of any theistic sects nor do I come to my own theistic conclusions. 
Quote:
Gilgamesh18 said: Religion has failed everytime at explaining the universe science while not perfect improves over time instead of relying on what old goat herders thought thousands of years ago.
This too.
-------------------- Sapere aude "We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."
UBUNTU- I am because we are.
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Gilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: JoieDeVivre] 2
#18809060 - 09/06/13 07:48 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
JoieDeVivre said: Atheism means not being theistic. I agree that people use god to mean anything. That doesn't mean I'm a theist. I'm not small minded because I'm not a theist. There is no evidence for theism and as such I do not subscribe to the belief system of any theistic sects nor do I come to my own theistic conclusions. 
Quote:
Gilgamesh18 said: Religion has failed everytime at explaining the universe science while not perfect improves over time instead of relying on what old goat herders thought thousands of years ago.
This too.
Joie agrees with me!!
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MisterSandman
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: JoieDeVivre]
#18809063 - 09/06/13 07:48 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
JoieDeVivre said: Atheism means not being theistic. I agree that people use god to mean anything. That doesn't mean I'm a theist. I'm not small minded because I'm not a theist. There is no evidence for theism and as such I do not subscribe to the belief system of any theistic sects nor do I come to my own theistic conclusions. 
Quote:
Gilgamesh18 said: Religion has failed everytime at explaining the universe science while not perfect improves over time instead of relying on what old goat herders thought thousands of years ago.
This too.
Yeah this
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper



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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: JoieDeVivre]
#18809099 - 09/06/13 07:56 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
JoieDeVivre said: Atheism means not being theistic. I agree that people use god to mean anything. That doesn't mean I'm a theist. I'm not small minded because I'm not a theist. There is no evidence for theism and as such I do not subscribe to the belief system of any theistic sects nor do I come to my own theistic conclusions. 
Quote:
Gilgamesh18 said: Religion has failed everytime at explaining the universe science while not perfect improves over time instead of relying on what old goat herders thought thousands of years ago.
This too.
Not being atheist does not, according to make make one an atheist by definition. You believe this because you, whether consciously or not employing as part of your implicit reasoning what is usually formally referred to as the non-contradiction principle, which means that every statement must either be true or false. It is only since the invention of the formal subject in language that the possibility of negating subjects existed, and quite honestly didn't seriously happen in a way would could honestly call atheism until the last few thousand years at the earliest. It wasn't even a coherent question until then. It was like asking whether the Sun existed. The reason for religion and mythology as I see it involves an interaction between evolution, language, and simple time. As a linguist I would secretly like to believe that language is the first ontologically existing thing was language. In a way the thing I described sort of is just language.
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JoieDeVivre
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: morrowasted] 4
#18809122 - 09/06/13 08:02 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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You're seem to just be saying, "language man, so being an atheist is small minded."
The simple truth is that being an atheist implies nothing more than not being theistic. Literally, if you break the word down linguistically it means not theist. So, your assertion that being an atheist means I think "statments are always either true or false" is completely irrelevant and has literally nothing to do with what the word actually means. No atheists I know rule out the possibility of a god. Most of us just say we are not theists (literally, a theist) because none of our ventures into theism have met the sufficient and necessary parameters for us to accept them as true at this point.
In reality it seems like many people who say similar things as what you are saying here want to believe in something you term "god" and feel upset that other people don't agree and reason (due to cognitive dissonance) that they must be wrong or small minded.
-------------------- Sapere aude "We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."
UBUNTU- I am because we are.
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flugelizor
Furious ball of nothing


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I used to say I was agnostic too. Until years ago I heard something that "resonated within my soul"; (There, isn't that something that someone of faith would say?)
"An agnostic is an atheist without conviction" Or as Google finishes the query "agnostic is an atheist... (with no balls)"
I'm an atheist. You will probably admit it soon too. You seem bright (big words) do you know about Occam's Razor? How is it that an omnipotent being who wants nothing more than to be believed in does not make it's presence known?
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qman
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: morrowasted] 6
#18809196 - 09/06/13 08:18 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said:
Quote:
JoieDeVivre said: Atheism means not being theistic. I agree that people use god to mean anything. That doesn't mean I'm a theist. I'm not small minded because I'm not a theist. There is no evidence for theism and as such I do not subscribe to the belief system of any theistic sects nor do I come to my own theistic conclusions. 
Quote:
Gilgamesh18 said: Religion has failed everytime at explaining the universe science while not perfect improves over time instead of relying on what old goat herders thought thousands of years ago.
This too.
Not being atheist does not, according to make make one an atheist by definition. You believe this because you, whether consciously or not employing as part of your implicit reasoning what is usually formally referred to as the non-contradiction principle, which means that every statement must either be true or false. It is only since the invention of the formal subject in language that the possibility of negating subjects existed, and quite honestly didn't seriously happen in a way would could honestly call atheism until the last few thousand years at the earliest. It wasn't even a coherent question until then. It was like asking whether the Sun existed. The reason for religion and mythology as I see it involves an interaction between evolution, language, and simple time. As a linguist I would secretly like to believe that language is the first ontologically existing thing was language. In a way the thing I described sort of is just language.
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Dawks
Jolly African Potato


Registered: 06/09/10
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Quote:
Camwritesgonzo said: Atheism is a non-prophet organization.
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date ; unzip ; strip ; touch ; grep ; finger ; mount ; fsck ; more ; yes ; umount ; sleep
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morrowasted
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: flugelizor]
#18809286 - 09/06/13 08:42 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
flugelizor said: I used to say I was agnostic too. Until years ago I heard something that "resonated within my soul"; (There, isn't that something that someone of faith would say?)
"An agnostic is an atheist without conviction" Or as Google finishes the query "agnostic is an atheist... (with no balls)"
I'm an atheist. You will probably admit it soon too. You seem bright (big words) do you know about Occam's Razor? How is it that an omnipotent being who wants nothing more than to be believed in does not make it's presence known?
because it is an 'omnipotent being'. that is just something people have made up. intelligence according to the structure of belief proposed in the OP is just a higher order ontological kind interacting with perception. each kind subsubmes all of what is called often their information from its subordinate kinds in addition to altering it. intelligence at various subkinds correseponds to differen numbers perceptual units by being dividing itself into two which perceive only half as many subkinds. what we call people collectively make up part of that perception. perhaps the claims of earliest religions in India about the "number of souls" isn't so different from the idea of number of perceptual units in the universe at the time it was written
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elborito


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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Dawks] 2
#18809292 - 09/06/13 08:44 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't think you could pull that paragraph off at gun point, you would probably be a sweaty shaking mess you'd get to the third "ontological", mispronounce it and scream "FUCK!" and throw your arms in the air. This spooks the opinion seeking gunman and he shoots you in the legs several times.
Edited by elborito (09/06/13 08:45 PM)
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morrowasted
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: elborito]
#18809315 - 09/06/13 08:50 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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i've received better treatment from otd
Quote:
elborito said: I don't think you could pull that paragraph off at gun point, you would probably be a sweaty shaking mess you'd get to the third "ontological", mispronounce it and scream "FUCK!" and throw your arms in the air. This spooks the opinion seeking gunman and he shoots you in the legs several times.
subtle I never went to college post
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Blend
afferent orchestra


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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: elborito]
#18809342 - 09/06/13 08:53 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Atheism is the belief that there is no God. It seems like some of you have a different definition...
"An agnostic is an atheist without conviction" This is true. It has nothing to do with balls, but belief. To believe there is no God is, in my opinion, as unfounded as a belief in God.
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elborito


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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: morrowasted] 6
#18809353 - 09/06/13 08:56 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said: i've received better treatment from otd
Quote:
elborito said: I don't think you could pull that paragraph off at gun point, you would probably be a sweaty shaking mess you'd get to the third "ontological", mispronounce it and scream "FUCK!" and throw your arms in the air. This spooks the opinion seeking gunman and he shoots you in the legs several times.
subtle I never went to college post
Blatant sanctimonious post.
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flugelizor
Furious ball of nothing


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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: morrowasted]
#18809383 - 09/06/13 09:02 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said: intelligence according to the structure of belief proposed in the OP is just a higher order ontological kind interacting with perception. each kind subsubmes all of what is called often their information from its subordinate kinds in addition to altering it. intelligence at various subkinds correseponds to differen numbers perceptual units by being dividing itself into two which perceive only half as many subkinds. what we call people collectively make up part of that perception. perhaps the claims of earliest religions in India about the "number of souls" isn't so different from the idea of number of perceptual units in the universe at the time it was written
Oh Shit! I BEEN TROLLED!
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The_Aviator
High Flyer



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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Blend] 3
#18809402 - 09/06/13 09:06 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deadendeavor said: Atheism is the belief that there is no God. It seems like some of you have a different definition...
That was never the definition. That is what some religious people that are opposed to atheism like to define it as to make it seem silly. Atheism = a-theism = not theist. Is not playing soccer a sport? Maybe you are thinking about anti-theism?
Almost all atheists are agnostic. I am an atheist and I am philosophically agnostic. I live my life as if there is no omnipotent being pulling the strings but I acknowledge the idea that immaterial-ism cannot be proved nor disproved. Furthermore I think the idea of metaphysics is silly, but I'm open to any evidence that could substantiate some of the wild claims the majority of people throw around.
--------------------
Sartre on conciousness: "a being such that in its being, its being is in question in so far as this being implies a being other than itself." Being and Nothingness Easy no-nausea hbwr tek Phish videos and discussion!
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Blend
afferent orchestra


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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: The_Aviator] 1
#18809419 - 09/06/13 09:12 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The_Aviator said:
Quote:
deadendeavor said: Atheism is the belief that there is no God. It seems like some of you have a different definition...
That was never the definition. That is what some religious people that are opposed to atheism like to define it as to make it seem silly.
this is the accepted definition.
If atheism simply meant not theistic, there would be no point in agnosticism. They'd virtually be the exact same.
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qman
Stranger

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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: The_Aviator] 3
#18809421 - 09/06/13 09:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The_Aviator said:
Quote:
deadendeavor said: Atheism is the belief that there is no God. It seems like some of you have a different definition...
That was never the definition. That is what some religious people that are opposed to atheism like to define it as to make it seem silly. Atheism = a-theism = not theist. Is not playing soccer a sport? Maybe you are thinking about anti-theism?
Almost all atheists are agnostic. I am an atheist and I am philosophically agnostic. I live my life as if there is no omnipotent being pulling the strings but I acknowledge the idea that immaterial-ism cannot be proved nor disproved. Furthermore I think the idea of metaphysics is silly, but I'm open to any evidence that could substantiate some of the wild claims the majority of people throw around.

Thank you for clarifying this, most people don't get it.
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Blend
afferent orchestra


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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: qman]
#18809436 - 09/06/13 09:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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 ok well if you guys wanna make up your own definition for it, this thread is a total waste of time.
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JoieDeVivre
Hippie Babysitter



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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Blend]
#18809447 - 09/06/13 09:18 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deadendeavor said:
Quote:
The_Aviator said:
Quote:
deadendeavor said: Atheism is the belief that there is no God. It seems like some of you have a different definition...
That was never the definition. That is what some religious people that are opposed to atheism like to define it as to make it seem silly.
this is the accepted definition.
If atheism simply meant not theistic, there would be no point in agnosticism. They'd virtually be the exact same.
Did you read that definiton? "Ungodly" is the first. "Disbelief" is the second which just means "refusal or inability to accept as true" which is the same thing as "lacking belief". The third (meaning least applicable) definition is the only thing that mentions "there is no god" and that's something suggested by non-athiests IMO. No atheist I have ever met wouldn't change their mind about theism if there were anything at all in the world to actually suggest it were something worth accepting. 
Agnosticism = "I don't know" Atheistm = "based on the current evidence I do not accept theism"
-------------------- Sapere aude "We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."
UBUNTU- I am because we are.
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Dawks
Jolly African Potato


Registered: 06/09/10
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: morrowasted] 1
#18809458 - 09/06/13 09:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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To contribute:
I agree OP I think atheism is “small minded.” Mainly because it looks at deities though a scientific lens rather than a philosophical one.
Scientifically speaking there is no reason to see that god exists. No more than any other unfalsifiable hypothesis such as “there are pink unicorns occupying every point in space but are simply unperceivable.” You can’t prove that that’s not true, but you have no evidence to say it does.
What it really boils down to is understanding that natural laws. Why things happen the way they do. Throwing philosophical concepts such as God into the mix is silly because God has no relevance. God is not going to help you put men on the moon.
Or is he? As far bending the nature of our external reality to our will God may not be very helpful. But what about our internal one? What about that part of the space cadet that is scared that something may go wrong on his mission? Or the engineer working night and day on a problem he just can’t wrap his head around?
Philosophy deals with the way in one manages their thoughts. God is a philosophical concept. Looking at a problem scientifically I may fatigue. But what if I know that God is right there with me. What if I know that no matter what, I’ll find the solution exactly when and how I should… suddenly the problem doesn’t seem so big.
If things aren’t going my way I can have faith that everything is on track. Even though my external reality may indicate otherwise, my internal one is at peace. My internal one has strength and it draws this strength from God (or whatever other philosophical concept you hold).
It doesn’t need to be God specifically. Your philosophy may not require God. You may see yourself as God. But the point is, unlike in the scientific, external reality where God has little relevance. In the internal world God can be the difference between sadness and happiness. Laziness and motivation. Compassion and hate. Life and death.
There was another thread here on the shroomery, the one about depression being like cancer. Where a member posed the question “is it possible for depression to be cured.” From my perspective it is and there is only one way to do it. By changing your philosophy.
Drugs and science may medicate the symptoms of depression but what is causing it in the first place? A neurochemical imbalance? Perhaps. But ultimately you have a lot of control over the way your internal mind works. You decide what you assign relevance too. You decide whether “it’s was just coincidence” or “God is helping me”. You decide whether the glass is half empty or half full. If you cultivate an internal reality in which an all loving father is always there for you, loves more than your human brain can imagine and wants what best for you, maybe life isn’t so bad? Maybe it’s a gift?
And I think this is what an atheist is closing their mind to. Atheists have decided that God doesn’t exist and that all the benefits one can get from having a relationship from God are fiction. The problem with this conclusion is that the benefits of having a relationship with God are very real and when you have cried tears of ecstasy from feeling God’s love, no amount of science is going to tell you it’s just “delusion”
So to sum up, God is a subjective phenomenon, rather than an objective one. God doesn’t influence the external universe but can make a tremendous difference to the internal one which in turn can lead you to have an effect on the external one.
And yes I know the hardcore rationalist can say “it’s all just brain chemistry.” But that’s devaluing the brain. The neurochemistry is how the brain works, yes, but the brain does something amazing, the brain creates a place in which art, music, philosophy and God can exist without the trappings of those pesky “laws of nature.” Isn’t that magical?
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Blend
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: JoieDeVivre]
#18809478 - 09/06/13 09:26 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
JoieDeVivre said:
Quote:
deadendeavor said:
Quote:
The_Aviator said:
Quote:
deadendeavor said: Atheism is the belief that there is no God. It seems like some of you have a different definition...
That was never the definition. That is what some religious people that are opposed to atheism like to define it as to make it seem silly.
this is the accepted definition.
If atheism simply meant not theistic, there would be no point in agnosticism. They'd virtually be the exact same.
Did you read that definiton? "Ungodly" is the first. "Disbelief" is the second which just means "refusal or inability to accept as true" which is the same thing as "lacking belief". The third (meaning least applicable) definition is the only thing that mentions "there is no god" and that's something suggested by non-athiests IMO. No atheist I have ever met wouldn't change their mind about theism if there were anything at all in the world to actually suggest it were something worth accepting. 
Agnosticism = "I don't know" Atheistm = "based on the current evidence I do not accept theism"
Ok so "a disbelief in the existence of a deity" does not at all imply "I do not believe in the existence of a deity"? I'm not sure how you can argue with that. It even goes onto say the following:
Quote:
Critique and denial of metaphysical beliefs in God or divine beings. Unlike agnosticism, which leaves open the question of whether there is a God, atheism is a positive denial.
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: morrowasted] 5
#18809498 - 09/06/13 09:30 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said:
Quote:
elborito said: I don't think you could pull that paragraph off at gun point, you would probably be a sweaty shaking mess you'd get to the third "ontological", mispronounce it and scream "FUCK!" and throw your arms in the air. This spooks the opinion seeking gunman and he shoots you in the legs several times.
subtle I never went to college post
If you're going to pull the "you can't understand what I wrote because you're uneducated" card, you could at least put a bit more effort into constructing intelligible statements. A lot of what you've written in this thread is overly dense, and a lot of sentences seem to have key words missing. The combined effect is to make it unnecessarily laborious to guess what you were trying to say.
Quote:
Not being atheist does not, according to make make (?) one an atheist by definition.
Quote:
You believe this because you, whether consciously or not (are?) employing as part of your implicit reasoning what is usually formally referred to as the non-contradiction principle, which means that every statement must either be true or false.
etc.
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JoieDeVivre
Hippie Babysitter



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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Blend] 2
#18809503 - 09/06/13 09:31 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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It does imply "I do not believe" it does NOT imply "I assert absolute knowledge that said being doesn't exist". But rather, as I have been saying the entire thread (and as every atheist I have ever known has said), "the evidence right now does not support any theistic beliefs I have explored, and thus I do not buy into/believe theism."
Why is so hard to understand that "I do not believe" =/= "I know it does not exist"???
-------------------- Sapere aude "We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."
UBUNTU- I am because we are.
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The_Aviator
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Dawks] 3
#18809506 - 09/06/13 09:32 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I couldn't disagree with that last post more.
"Atheists have decided that God doesn’t exist..." You have several atheists in this thread saying that our atheism is not a belief that a god exists. It is the lack of belief in a god.
"But that’s devaluing the brain." According to you. I could write out my opinion but Richard Feynman will explain it better in an analogy:
--------------------
Sartre on conciousness: "a being such that in its being, its being is in question in so far as this being implies a being other than itself." Being and Nothingness Easy no-nausea hbwr tek Phish videos and discussion!
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Blend
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: JoieDeVivre]
#18809537 - 09/06/13 09:39 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
JoieDeVivre said: It does imply "I do not believe" it does NOT imply "I assert absolute knowledge that said being doesn't exist". But rather, as I have been saying the entire thread (and as every atheist I have ever known has said), "the evidence right now does not support any theistic beliefs I have explored, and thus I do not buy into/believe theism."
Why is so hard to understand that "I do not believe" =/= "I know it does not exist"???
It's hard to understand why you would call yourself an atheist when you are open to the idea of the existence of a deity (which is why there is such a thing as agnosticism). That is an error in semantics, I'm sorry. Atheism is a denial of any deity. It has always meant that, in spite of what you have been saying throughout this thread. You can put your own spin on it, but don't expect anyone else to follow your lead.
To me this is pretty cut and dry. All I can do is post the definition again. I'm not going to sit here and argue the different interpretations one can have upon every single word in the definition. Atheism does not mean what you say it does. But believe as you wish.
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Dawks
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: The_Aviator]
#18809549 - 09/06/13 09:41 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The_Aviator said: I couldn't disagree with that last post more.
"Atheists have decided that God doesn’t exist..." You have several atheists in this thread saying that our atheism is not a belief that a god exists. It is the lack of belief in a god.
I understand however this is an issue of semantics.
I've encountered atheists in person that assert that God does not exist or has no practical significance and this is what I disagree with.
If you take atheist to mean simply not having God or any sort of deity as part of your philosophy than my post really doesn't have any relevance to you. What are you disagreeing with?
Quote:
The_Aviator said: "But that’s devaluing the brain." According to you. I could write out my opinion but Richard Feynman will explain it better in an analogy:
I can't youtube for a couple of days. Can you tl;dw it for me?
--------------------
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Blend]
#18809560 - 09/06/13 09:43 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Atheism is a disbelief/lack of acceptance of current theism, nothing more.
It doesn't believe what you think it does. Atheism has to do with the idea that there is not enough evidence to suggest theism. Why should I accept something there is no evidence of? With all my current knowledge and with all current human knowledge (at least that is publicly known), there is no proof of a god. I'm not uncertain of that.
-------------------- Sapere aude "We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."
UBUNTU- I am because we are.
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Blend
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: JoieDeVivre]
#18809584 - 09/06/13 09:50 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Alright, one more time. With a little more feeling.
Quote:
Merriam-Webster said: Unlike agnosticism, which leaves open the question of whether there is a God, atheism is a positive denial.
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4HO-DMT


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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: morrowasted]
#18809588 - 09/06/13 09:50 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Never really been asked about my beliefs. Beliefs, like most things, falls along a spectrum ranging from nothingness to reverend hallleluujah. I am probably classified as an atheist. But, that is far from trusting that science has nailed down the rules of existence.
I like to think about it in terms of physics, chemistry, and mathematics, and these uses logic quite a bit. Newton's laws are an example. One thing that seems to always be true is: Where there is mass, there is also energy. Furthermore, it appears that where there is life, there is mass and also energy. Is is logical to say: There are conservation principals that say you can't just create mass, you can only change its form? That is for you to decide.
From a logical perspective, a single entity running the show just doesn't resonate for me. Nor really does a collection of them likely control everything. Most likely an entity would be selfish, like the huge majority of humans or other animals. What I do believe though is that energy and mass always coincide with life. I don't think the reverse is true though. Or is it?
With the conservation principals in mind, I ponder if there are a great number of things that obey similar conservation principals. For instance, suppose that life is a conserved quantity. We zip into life for a while, then we zip out at some point. Birth and death are observable and to date there are no known cases of death not ultimately pairing with birth. So, if life is conserved, than what is it like before or after it changes form into our world?
Science doesn't explain the vast majority of phenomena.
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psi
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Blend] 2
#18809595 - 09/06/13 09:52 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deadendeavor said: It's hard to understand why you would call yourself an atheist when you are open to the idea of the existence of a deity (which is why there is such a thing as agnosticism). That is an error in semantics, I'm sorry. Atheism is a denial of any deity. It has always meant that, in spite of what you have been saying throughout this thread. You can put your own spin on it, but don't expect anyone else to follow your lead.
To me this is pretty cut and dry. All I can do is post the definition again. I'm not going to sit here and argue the different interpretations one can have upon every single word in the definition. Atheism does not mean what you say it does. But believe as you wish.
Referring to "the definition" suggests a single universally agreed upon definition. The Mirriam-Webster online dictionary you quoted earlier is not the final authority on such matters, and the looser definition that some people have advocated here is documented elsewhere if you look around.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/atheism
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The_Aviator
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Dawks] 2
#18809597 - 09/06/13 09:53 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Sure, we can't know if there is no god. But we also can't know for certain that there aren't fairies, for example. How do we treat that? That is why the whole atheist vs agnostic debate is a silly distraction. The point is that pure faith is required to accept or even seriously consider the god "theory." Pure faith is orthogonal to reality in every way that I can consider. It eludes observation and reason. It is all a fairy tale that was started by primitive humans. That is just my opinion, I know that makes me a "militant atheist" but do not mistake my bluntness as disrespect.
“There is no polite way to suggest to someone that they have devoted their life to a folly.” -Daniel Dennett
Below is the short transcript from the Feynman quote:
Quote:
I have a friend who's an artist and has sometimes taken a view which I don't agree with very well. He'll hold up a flower and say "look how beautiful it is," and I'll agree. Then he says "I as an artist can see how beautiful this is but you as a scientist take this all apart and it becomes a dull thing," and I think that he's kind of nutty. First of all, the beauty that he sees is available to other people and to me too, I believe. Although I may not be quite as refined aesthetically as he is ... I can appreciate the beauty of a flower. At the same time, I see much more about the flower than he sees. I could imagine the cells in there, the complicated actions inside, which also have a beauty. I mean it's not just beauty at this dimension, at one centimeter; there's also beauty at smaller dimensions, the inner structure, also the processes. The fact that the colors in the flower evolved in order to attract insects to pollinate it is interesting; it means that insects can see the color. It adds a question: does this aesthetic sense also exist in the lower forms? Why is it aesthetic? All kinds of interesting questions which the science knowledge only adds to the excitement, the mystery and the awe of a flower. It only adds. I don't understand how it subtracts.
~Richard Feynman
--------------------
Sartre on conciousness: "a being such that in its being, its being is in question in so far as this being implies a being other than itself." Being and Nothingness Easy no-nausea hbwr tek Phish videos and discussion!
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: qman] 2
#18809608 - 09/06/13 09:55 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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This is the classic philosophical question that people use to discuss without actually understanding the use and meaning of some definitions. We can group this definitions in two pairs of absolutes due to their nature. Then we can cross both pairs to define the intellectual inclination.
Theism / Atheism - deals directly with belief systems. Either you believe in god or you don't.
Gnostic / Agnostic - deals with the epistemological aspects of the issue. It means, either you accept you can know god or you don't.
Follow this link a read some more info http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/09/25/8419/ . Now try to define yourself.
I define myself as theist agnostic. I believe there can be a god but I can not know if god exists. I try to tell apart what is "belief" and what is "knowledge". I think that working on this capacity made see things more clearly. One conclusion I reached is that "belief" is the most subjective structure of the mind, thus it cannot be trusted as objective knowledge. It serves nothing but ourselves and our constructs. That's why I don't accept any religion and have my own personal view about what I believe. And what I believe needs no followers...
I really respect atheists because of their objectivity. Nevertheless, I still rest my case middle-ground because no one can prove, or disprove, the existence of something one cannot know.
-------------------- Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala
 Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy. Voltaire
Edited by MAIA (09/06/13 10:11 PM)
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MAIA
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: The_Aviator]
#18809613 - 09/06/13 09:58 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The_Aviator said: Pure faith is orthogonal to reality in every way that I can consider.
That's the very radical of the issue when it comes to understand this definitions.
-------------------- Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala
 Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy. Voltaire
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Blend
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: psi]
#18809624 - 09/06/13 10:01 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
psi said:
Quote:
deadendeavor said: It's hard to understand why you would call yourself an atheist when you are open to the idea of the existence of a deity (which is why there is such a thing as agnosticism). That is an error in semantics, I'm sorry. Atheism is a denial of any deity. It has always meant that, in spite of what you have been saying throughout this thread. You can put your own spin on it, but don't expect anyone else to follow your lead.
To me this is pretty cut and dry. All I can do is post the definition again. I'm not going to sit here and argue the different interpretations one can have upon every single word in the definition. Atheism does not mean what you say it does. But believe as you wish.
Referring to "the definition" suggests a single universally agreed upon definition. The Mirriam-Webster online dictionary you quoted earlier is not the final authority on such matters, and the looser definition that some people have advocated here is documented elsewhere if you look around.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/atheism
I checked out your link, which tended to agree with the definition I've grown so accustomed to. It did also mention there is a 'loose' definition that is reminiscent of some of these posts, but I have to say again that to me, that definition sounds alot more like agnosticism. And I'm sure there's a 'loose' definition for agnosticism that goes something like "The disbelief in God" if you look around. Does that mean it's correct?
If you can make a word mean whatever you want, then language becomes more and more pointless. I don't care what some people think this or that word means. What is the agreed-upon definition of the word? Clearly when you take a loose approach, arguments such as this become needlessly confusing.
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JoieDeVivre
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Blend]
#18809644 - 09/06/13 10:06 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deadendeavor said: the definition I've grown so accustomed to. ...
I don't care what some people think this or that word means.
Clearly you only care about your own definition of a position you neither understand nor hold. Like another poster correctly said, asserting that agnosticism makes sense and atheism does not means you're dealing with epistimological issues. You're dealing with what we can and can't know. I'm not. I'm saying we can make reasonable inferences based on the evidence presented to us, which is what I have done with my atheism. Any new evidence I find leads to an integration of that into my current worldview. If it makes my worldview in question, I asses both and do further investigation then revise my view if necessary. So I don't need to claim "I don't know" because it's obvious we all don't know many things. If you say we can't know about god, you're basically calling all claims of knowledge into question. Are you agnostic about Santa Clause?
Btw, why is that that anyone is entitled to their own permutation of theism but people like you act like atheism can't come in different flavors?
-------------------- Sapere aude "We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."
UBUNTU- I am because we are.
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psi
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Blend] 4
#18809658 - 09/06/13 10:11 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Lots of words have numerous meanings (some of which will inevitably overlap with meanings of other words,) but people manage to get by somehow. Once a person has clarified what they actually do mean by a given term, that ambiguity becomes sort of a non-issue.
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Nova

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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: JoieDeVivre]
#18809683 - 09/06/13 10:20 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Dawks
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: The_Aviator]
#18809693 - 09/06/13 10:24 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The_Aviator said: Sure, we can't know if there is no god. But we also can't know for certain that there aren't fairies, for example. How do we treat that?
We treat fairies exactly like I said I treat God in my first post.
Subjectively I experience fairies. Out of the corner of my eye, little things I can't explain. Certain synchronicities.
Of course objectively you could assert that what I'm experiencing is nothing more than the lasting effects for countless LSD trips and is nothing more than HPPD, delusion or psychosis. However internally these things are little creatures, with personalities and the works. Having this brings me joy and is something I actively choose to cultivate.
Like with God, you'll never prove my fairies exist. Because though a scientific lens they don't. They are manifestations of my mind. This doesn't mean they can't be shared however: Like with God, I can point out my fairies to open minded folk who can integrate them into their philosophy too and share in the magic.
Quote:
The_Aviator said: Below is the short transcript from the Feynman quote:
Quote:
I have a friend who's an artist and has sometimes taken a view which I don't agree with very well. He'll hold up a flower and say "look how beautiful it is," and I'll agree. Then he says "I as an artist can see how beautiful this is but you as a scientist take this all apart and it becomes a dull thing," and I think that he's kind of nutty. First of all, the beauty that he sees is available to other people and to me too, I believe. Although I may not be quite as refined aesthetically as he is ... I can appreciate the beauty of a flower. At the same time, I see much more about the flower than he sees. I could imagine the cells in there, the complicated actions inside, which also have a beauty. I mean it's not just beauty at this dimension, at one centimeter; there's also beauty at smaller dimensions, the inner structure, also the processes. The fact that the colors in the flower evolved in order to attract insects to pollinate it is interesting; it means that insects can see the color. It adds a question: does this aesthetic sense also exist in the lower forms? Why is it aesthetic? All kinds of interesting questions which the science knowledge only adds to the excitement, the mystery and the awe of a flower. It only adds. I don't understand how it subtracts.
~Richard Feynman
Oh yeah I seen someone quote that before.
I think it's a slightly different thing though when applied to the brain.
For instance, what is the color blue? Objectively speaking the color blue is a reflection of a particular wavelength of electromagnetic radiation onto the retina. Upon hitting the retina some chemical reaction takes place and sends a signal to the brain and we react by perceiving "blue."
Okay so that's the how. By I like to ponder as to the where... you know, that place where the color blue actually happens. Like I know there is probably a collection of cells in my visual cortex at the back of my head. But that's not what I'm experiencing, I'm experiencing the color blue on some kind of inner canvas but where exactly is that place/space? it's not in the outside world, it's inside and it's not bound by the laws of the universe.
I call it the mindscape. But I'm sure being better read than I you could give it a fancier name.
I understand the whole flower thing and agree with it. Scientific understanding can, in some people, lead to an enhanced appreciation of some things. But where is this appreciation happening? this experience is more than just an activation of neurons, if you catch my drift.
--------------------
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: JoieDeVivre]
#18809703 - 09/06/13 10:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
JoieDeVivre said:
Quote:
deadendeavor said: the definition I've grown so accustomed to. ...
I don't care what some people think this or that word means.
Clearly you only care about your own definition of a position you neither understand nor hold. Like another poster correctly said, asserting that agnosticism makes sense and atheism does not means you're dealing with epistimological issues. You're dealing with what we can and can't know. I'm not. I'm saying we can make reasonable inferences based on the evidence presented to us, which is what I have done with my atheism. Any new evidence I find leads to an integration of that into my current worldview. If it makes my worldview in question, I asses both and do further investigation then revise my view if necessary. So I don't need to claim "I don't know" because it's obvious we all don't know many things. If you say we can't know about god, you're basically calling all claims of knowledge into question. Are you agnostic about Santa Clause?
Btw, why is that that anyone is entitled to their own permutation of theism but people like you act like atheism can't come in different flavors?
I'm not arguing your theistic stance Joie. I'm merely pointing out there is a definition of the word that is not correctly being used here. That's really it. I haven't brought your, my, or anyone else's belief or lack thereof into question. I think it's stupid to have a word be open to interpretation. It completely destroys the point. And again I'll say you can call yourself atheist if that's what you want to do. But you aren't using the word in the way most people would, which will cause unnecessary confusion to people who prefer to just use the damn word the right way.
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JoieDeVivre
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Nova] 3
#18809706 - 09/06/13 10:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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No one said there was proof of absence. 
However there is certainly logical deductions that can be done with all human knowledge and the tenets of theistic doctrines. Unless you manipulate the theistic doctrines to something that solely resides in pockets of ignorance, it's pretty obvious humans have been wrong about divinity for all of history. I mean when you study any theistic doctrine most of them are heavily rooted in completely human ideas with the caveat that paradoxes = divinity which just means that what is incomprehensible we assume is some magical entity. If you study history, humans have always used religion to fill in the gaps of knowledge. So in my mind anything someone else says about religion or god, unless confirmed by my own experience, is more of a projection of their own mind than a verifiable conclusion of anything "divine".
-------------------- Sapere aude "We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."
UBUNTU- I am because we are.
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Nova

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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: JoieDeVivre]
#18809969 - 09/06/13 11:26 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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And how long were humans wrong when they claimed that the earth was flat? Until their ignorance on the subject was lessened. Agnostics accept their own ignorance towards the matter of the existence of god. Atheists assert a belief on the subject of god (just like religions people do), hence why OP calls them simple minded.
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: morrowasted] 1
#18809995 - 09/06/13 11:41 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I've always been confused about the distinction between agnosticism and atheism... whenever I call out atheists for projecting their own opinions onto the larger world via scientism, they insist that atheism is passive, that it's an absence of belief rather than the actual (often strident) belief that there is no god. So then what sets it apart from agnosticism at all? I'm onto you guys.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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Blend
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Quote:
BlindSophist said: I've always been confused about the distinction between agnosticism and atheism... whenever I call out atheists for projecting their own opinions onto the larger world via scientism, they insist that atheism is passive, that it's an absence of belief rather than the actual (often strident) belief that there is no god. So then what sets it apart from agnosticism at all? I'm onto you guys. 
Sorry, Soph, our narrow reasoning isn't wanted here. I know it would seem as though this were a matter of fact, but obviously atheism can mean whatever you want now.
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omegafaust
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Blend] 3
#18810018 - 09/06/13 11:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Regardless of your semantics, i think it is absolutely hilarious that someone can presume athfism = close minded, when most atheists agree with proven science compared to all the religion who are following more or less the same spiritual path as civilization of old for a couple thousand years. i believe close minded is more likely of a theist, follow a path that has been placed before them by someone else. and a lot of theist are very, very stuck in their ways and see 'atheism' as a big problem.
not changing or being open to other ideals is close minded.
On seconf thought,, op's original post was pretty close minded...
-------------------- The Universe has an interesting sense of irony, in that you are the universe experiencing itself. All you are is a thought.
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Blend] 1
#18810021 - 09/06/13 11:55 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Noun[edit] atheism (plural atheisms) 1. (narrowly) Belief that no deities exist (sometimes including rejection of other religious beliefs). [quotations ▼] 2. (broadly) Rejection of belief that any deities exist (with or without a belief that no deities exist). [quotations ▼] 3. (very broadly) Absence of belief that any deities exist (including absence of the concept of deities). [quotations ▼] 4. (loosely, uncommon) Absence of belief in a particular deity, pantheon, or religious doctrine (notwithstanding belief in other deities)
Self-identification implies a very narrow use of a word. Atheism is a broad movement, but there is no smaller unit of atheism than an individual person.
The definition to which Joie refers is definitely being used inappropriately. Anybody who self-identifies as an atheist obviously does have a concept of god(s) which they are able to reject.
But many atheists refuse to admit that their atheism is a belief. They are, after all, above such quaint illogic as untestable beliefs, so they must bury it under logical-sounding scientific notions of how reality should be apprehended.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
Edited by Sophistic Radiance (09/07/13 01:04 AM)
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morrowasted
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Accepted definition my ass. No such thing. to if someone asks if I am an atheist I will say no and I will not say that I am an atheist. That is my prerogative. I have my own motives and you don't get to tell me what I am. Everyone has their own lexicon; only rain man has webster in his head. don't even try arguing this point with me guys. you will only make yourselves look ignorant
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: morrowasted]
#18810056 - 09/07/13 12:10 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well then, what is the difference between agnosticism and atheism? Why do we have two words for (what I'm told is) one thing?
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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ModestMouse
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: morrowasted] 6
#18810058 - 09/07/13 12:10 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Op is small minded.
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morrowasted
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Quote:
BlindSophist said: Well then, what is the difference between agnosticism and atheism? Why do we have two words for (what I'm told is) one thing?
agnosticism is the belief that knowledge is impossible. that doesn't mean god is impossible. it means the question is stupid
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koraks
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: morrowasted]
#18810285 - 09/07/13 02:15 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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If you separate language from the non-linguistic concepts and 'real-world' phenomena it is generally used to refer to and start to reason using language only, bereft of any real meaning, it will fold in on itself - it will collapse. It will result in alternative explanations for phenomena that make sense linguistically, but not necessarily conceptually.
Having said that, I consider myself agnostic for methodological reasons: no satisfactory experiment or line of reasoning has ever been set up proving or disproving God. If there is a God, then I think his biggest trick yet is that he has been hiding in plain sight all the time.
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Beanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX


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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Dawks] 2
#18810573 - 09/07/13 05:29 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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can't explain.
must be fairies.
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rulesq
Bad Mogambo



Registered: 05/10/13
Posts: 5,317
Loc: Суомалиа
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Beanhead]
#18810586 - 09/07/13 05:37 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Fairies that were brought here by
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Apollyphelion
Dungeon Master/Princess(1009)


Registered: 03/15/07
Posts: 16,757
Loc: Festival of Deaths
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: rulesq] 5
#18810609 - 09/07/13 06:10 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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To quote XKCD,
the important thing here OP is that you found a way to feel superior to both theists and atheists.
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"I'm looking at you looking at it" SUBSCRIBE TO MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL PLEASE! www.youtube.com/apollyphelion Creator of the World's Worst Comic Book
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UnholyChild666
I'M GOD

Registered: 03/26/06
Posts: 8,940
Loc:
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: morrowasted]
#18810743 - 09/07/13 08:04 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm God rich kid I'll decide what is and isn't.
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"I am the Highest Power the leader of the pack" Actiavte My Dream Sequence Machine GOD of the hologram earth
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ModestMouse
IM WALKIN ON SUNSHINE


Registered: 05/06/13
Posts: 19,227
Loc: Upstate
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Quote:
UnholyChild666 said: I'm God rich kid I'll decide what is and isn't.
My favorite part about you is that you consistently shitpost in every religious thread thus destroying the thread so no one has to deal with it.
-------------------- Anyone got a lowpass filter in this biiiiash?
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BittrBuffalo
Deaconica

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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: morrowasted]
#18813337 - 09/07/13 10:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm less interested in the OP's definition of atheism and more interested in why he's bothered by what he believes that atheists believe (or don't believe). If you're not an atheist, why do you care?
-------------------- Disclaimer: This post is a work of fiction, provided for entertainment purposes only. Any resemblance to actual persons or events, past or present, is strictly coincidental. All celebrity voices are impersonated. If you begin your ID request with, "I just ate a bunch of these mushrooms…should I not have done that?" I'm just gonna sit back and watch Darwin at work.
Edited by BittrBuffalo (09/07/13 10:48 PM)
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wtffuck


Registered: 03/31/12
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Your small minded, you don't even know what you believe.
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: wtffuck]
#18813387 - 09/07/13 11:04 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
wtffuck said: Your small minded, you don't even know what you believe.
What are you basing that on?
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wtffuck


Registered: 03/31/12
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: psi] 1
#18813420 - 09/07/13 11:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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if theres a god he must have wiped his ass on this planet
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wtffuck


Registered: 03/31/12
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: psi]
#18813426 - 09/07/13 11:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
wtffuck said: if theres a god he must have wiped his ass on this planet
Quote:
psi said:
Quote:
wtffuck said: Your small minded, you don't even know what you believe.
What are you basing that on?
the topic
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King Klick
That Guy Everyone Knows



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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: wtffuck]
#18813690 - 09/08/13 01:00 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Was an atheist before this thread, will remain one after.
Now an agnostic is someone who is either:
A. A non believer who is afraid of denying a god and being condemned.
or
B. Someone who wastes their precious time debating where we came from until their dead and it won't matter.
-------------------- Your god is dead, and I killed him. When you’re lost, here I am. Forever with your soul
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!



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Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: King Klick]
#18813705 - 09/08/13 01:07 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
King Klick said: Was an atheist before this thread, will remain one after.
Now an agnostic is someone who is either:
A. A non believer who is afraid of denying a god and being condemned.
or
B. Someone who wastes their precious time debating where we came from until their dead and it won't matter.
Does that make you an agnostic?
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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King Klick
That Guy Everyone Knows



Registered: 11/13/11
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Quote:
BlindSophist said:
Quote:
King Klick said: Was an atheist before this thread, will remain one after.
Now an agnostic is someone who is either:
A. A non believer who is afraid of denying a god and being condemned.
or
B. Someone who wastes their precious time debating where we came from until their dead and it won't matter.
Does that make you an agnostic? 
Fuckkkkk I fell into the trap againnn.
-------------------- Your god is dead, and I killed him. When you’re lost, here I am. Forever with your soul
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: King Klick] 1
#18813724 - 09/08/13 01:15 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Buddhism is so full of shit.
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TwinEclipse
Psychedelic Alchemist


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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: King Klick]
#18813727 - 09/08/13 01:16 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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You should read Nieztsche's PARABLE OF A MADMAN .. Parable of a madman
It describes the nature of 'being an atheist' and the reasoning behind it.
I'm no atheist. I believe in hope, love, and most importantly, faith. god is unclear to me but I WANT to believe.
-------------------- My purpose: to love, to share, and to experience....all while conforming to my psychedelic experiences.
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tripp23
Kratom Freak



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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: TwinEclipse]
#18813902 - 09/08/13 02:41 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Good topic. I recently got into the "egyptian christian". It's basically a religion that involves perfect reasoning with science. The universe is written in geometrics. The flower of life, the solar cross that the great pyramids were built into, even yeshua ben her's main prayer is geometric. Geometry is universe and the universe is geometry. Prove me wrong on that.
Anyways, so far though. I've definitely got sucked in and I love it. Look into it, maybe youll find it decent too.
-------------------- Experience my nightmarish first time of smoking Ganja!

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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: tripp23]
#18813929 - 09/08/13 02:57 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
tripp23 said: Geometry is universe and the universe is geometry. Prove me wrong on that.
I'd say to you what I say to any religious person: convince me by proving your God (in your case, geometry) is real and omnipotent. At least you have a better starting position than most theists Anyway, I always find it sort of lame when people say "prove me x isn't there." It's the logical fallacy that kills, for example, all forms of risk management. You can't prove absence of something; you can only try to prove its presence in many ways and if you fail, cautiously assume that it probably isn't there...Then again, exactly this phenomenon leaves enough room for people to believe in irrational things. What is entertaining, of course, is that you seem to argue that your flavor of religion is wrought with reason 
Btw, when you speak of 'Egyptian christian', what do you actually mean? Coptic Christianity?
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Beanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX


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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koraks]
#18817443 - 09/09/13 12:16 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I was once walking in the country with a blind friend of mine. The day was hot and I said that I would enjoy a nice cool drink of milk. “Milk?” asked my friend. “Drink I understand, but what is milk?” “A white liquid,” I explained. “Liquid I understand, but what is white?” “The color of a swan’s feathers.” “Feathers I understand, but what is a swan?” “A bird with a crooked neck.” “Neck I understand, but what is crooked?” I gently took his arm and straightened it. “That’s straight,” I said. Then I bent it at the elbow. “And this is crooked.” “Oh,” exclaimed the blind man, “now I understand what you mean by milk.”
We believe that we understand the three dimensions of height, width, and depth. What about the fourth dimension, time. Do we really understand it? We cannot synthesize it or put it in a bottle. If we try to imagine what existed before the “big bang” that many physicists think (or, more recently, thought) was the beginning of the universe, the question arises, if there was nothingness, was there time? Could time exist if matter didn’t exist? And what about “nothingness”? If there was nothing before the universe existed, was that nothing very, very small or very, very large? Before the universe existed, was there an enormous emptiness or something infinitely small. If the latter, what was “outside” it? And what is outside the universe today? The point of this mental exercise is to illustrate that it is easy to see that something as commonplace and familiar to us as “time” and “nothing” is quite mysterious and hard to grasp. Pfft, Religion is like playing a game on easy-mode... Faith provides a comforting set of explanations for great questions and useful concepts for complex ideas without the need to disprove any of them.
Edited by Beanhead (09/09/13 01:16 AM)
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ShiVersblood
VAmPiRES HELLA ❤



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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Beanhead]
#18817461 - 09/09/13 12:24 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Going to hell is the last thing I need after all this crap happened to me. I'm Christian ish as in I believe in god and believe Jesus was his son. Following the bible gets hard sometimes, but overall I'm a good person.
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koods
Ribbit



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Atheism is an unfortunate consequence of having to react a world dominated by theists. It should be the default position, since it is the only viewpoint that doesn't actually require any information. It doesn't require any evidence. Theism requires an education (more like indoctrination).
Despite the literal meaning of the word "atheism" most atheists would not say there is no god. They will say there is no reason to believe there is a god, just as there is no reason to believe any other claim that is supported by absolutely zero evidence. The only reason there is a special word for the specific disbelief of this particular baseless claim is that the believers think they are special.
Atheism is not small minded. Most atheists come to their position by reason, as opposed to the believers who are told what to believe by their elders, their peers and told that really terrible shit goes down if you question or reject what they are being told,
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (09/09/13 02:30 AM)
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


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Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18817683 - 09/09/13 02:28 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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So atheists believe themselves to be especially unspecial, then?
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,049
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 6 hours, 18 minutes
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Quote:
BlindSophist said: So atheists believe themselves to be especially unspecial, then? 
The theist thinks he is special because his claims don't require the evidence any other claim would. The atheist thinks there is nothing special about the theists claims. How can something be especially unspecial? That's like matter and anti-matter.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: TwinEclipse]
#18817718 - 09/09/13 03:07 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
TwinEclipse said: You should read Nieztsche's PARABLE OF A MADMAN .. Parable of a madman
It describes the nature of 'being an atheist' and the reasoning behind it.
I'm no atheist. I believe in hope, love, and most importantly, faith. god is unclear to me but I WANT to believe.
Wanting to believe in something when there is absolutely evidence that thing exists an absurd way to live your life. It's as useful as "the secret" or superstition. Sure, there may be some benefits realized by doing so, but this is nothing but chance. If things go well, it confirms your belief and when they don't, it doesn't. A plane crashes and everyone but a little baby is killed. It's a miracle... Lets thank god!
Belief in god doesn't teach you anything people haven't already learned through experience and investigation of the world we live in. I'm not sure why you think hope and love have any relationship to a particular belief.
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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pmoseman
Illogical Ninja


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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18817819 - 09/09/13 04:42 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I hate that Nietzsche guy. He gets all the chics.
Damn it, I see an actual atheist beat me to it. Oh well... this repeats a bit of what Koods said.
First, history. Christianity commands you to worship no other god than the one true God. That is the religion I was raised with. I took it to mean that you cannot believe there are any other gods; that all other religions are false. This was essentially non-belief toward all deities/beliefs, save God. This also gave me the belief that all religions were equally close-minded about other religions. To me, a true belief excluded others that seem to contradict it. But I realize now that people's beliefs are totally unlimited. Another thing Christianity commands is to remain faithful to God, and so some "straying" from the faith occurs. Non-believers also may stray a bit and not always be pure rationals.
When I rejected Christian faith, I saw no reason to substitute it with another belief, as it seems people often do. That is atheism. I choose not to believe in any religion.
The other definition for atheism, that atheists claim to KNOW that no God exists. This definition of atheism is wrong. Think of atheism as the observation that one does not know. Do not confuse atheism with a belief, it is vastly different. It is much akin to nihilism, and not a belief, because logically, neither can be proven.
Agnosticism simply states whether God exists or not cannot be proven. This is a belief. You either know God exists, and knowing about God, you know that He cannot be proven. OR You you know God does not exist, and knowing this, you know He cannot be proven. Either way you would KNOW and by definition and that requires proof. YOU CANNOT KNOW ABOUT SOMETHING THAT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO KNOW ABOUT UNLESS YOU KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT IT. So agnosticism, is a belief.
Nihilism can never be proven, because proving everything does not exist is impossible, especially if it is true. Nihilism is the null-hypothesis. You must prove something exists to replace it. You cannot have proof without it proving nihilism is false, so why bother hiding it? Nihilism itself must be assumed true and unlike an irrational belief, is also the root of some fairly good and original philosophical thought.
If it could not be proven false then I would not exist, or through the common expression, I think therefore I am. Both rejection and acceptance of nihilism, unlike the rejection or acceptance of one set of beliefs for a different set of beliefs, requires no faith.
I believed in nihilism, I still believe in nihilism. It is difficult to avoid poor word-choice, but you should be able to realize nihilism is absence, and itself would not exist as a belief, so how can anyone logically believe it?
Nihilism has its place, but anyone putting belief and nihilism together is wrong.
The argument works the same for atheism as it did for nihilism, but only more so. Atheism can never be proven nor disproven. You either adopt atheism or you believe in something.
Atheism rests in a very unstable position as a belief, as it makes no claims. They say the universe began. They say God exists. They say magic is real. They say unicorns fly. They say atheists think they know everything. Wrong! Atheism is vastly different from all those. Atheism is removing belief without replacing it. Your beliefs about atheism are an extension of your beliefs in other stuff.
You either understand the concept or not.
I am not saying atheists are perfect, or that they are a distinct subset of all people, but this concept has to be defined rigidly to be used properly. It also can easily be called a belief, but calling it a belief is a technically wrong description. For example, if God is real, but simply cannot be proven, or He can be proven, and is real, then atheism... remains valid. You may think, aha, those atheists have finally been proven wrong, but the FACT that God exists is not a BELIEF and therefore atheism remains unchanged.
This whole thread stinks like drunk chimpanzees.
Edited by pmoseman (09/09/13 04:49 AM)
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Fire is Born
wanderer



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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: pmoseman]
#18817835 - 09/09/13 05:02 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Fuck reading all this. Just riddle me one thing......Why do you believe in god? Or any god for that matter
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Fire is Born
wanderer



Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 2,016
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Let's heat this up a bit. If you are Christian. ...you're kind of an idiot. Same goes for Jewish, catjolic, muslim etc etc Also believing god may exist because you can not prove it?....you cannot disprove that a turd didn't create you either...do you believe that too? You believe it simply because you want to. As for believing in Christian gods.....please.
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Beanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX


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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Dawks]
#18817893 - 09/09/13 05:52 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dawks said: To contribute: 1. A neurochemical imbalance? Perhaps. But ultimately you have a lot of control over the way your internal mind works.
fu beanhead you're generalizing everything to brain chemistry.
3. last few sentences.
Do we? not all the neurons in our body produce awareness. For example, in persons who suffer a disconnection of the spinal cord from the brain, pinching a toe will still elicit a leg withdrawal reflex, but the person does not feel the pinch. The spinal cord neurons are activated by the pinch, but their activity does not produce awareness even though they are part of the person’s body. It is generally believed that consciousness is produced by the activity of neurons in the cerebral cortex. This is probably true. However, there is evidence that noncortical neuronal activity can produce some form of consciousness, as in the case of “blindsight,” in which persons who are clinically blind due to visual cortical damage are nevertheless able to make correct visual discriminations, even though they report that they cannot see. -Cowey. 2004
-Benjamin Libet (1999) who found that conscious intention to move, say, a finger, actually followed the onset of electrophysiological activity associated specifically with the volitional process. This raises a different issue as to the neurophysiological basis of “free will” and the question of the nature of “I.” Libet’s finding raises the extremely discomforting notion that my neurons make the decision before “I” do. It is the question of whether “I” can ever really decide to do anything, or whether free will is but an illusion produced by the prior activity of the neurons in the brain. Stated another way, can “I” control the activity of my neurons, or do they control “me"?
Not that I don't agree with you, it's astonishing how the power of will/the mind can mold it's enviroment however it's anything but devalueing the brain: i've chosen those two excerpts to adress that there's indeed more then the eye can perceive. It can make itself all too evident, as when we experience pain. And it doesn’t help if we tell ourselves that pain is just the result of chemical reactions in some cells that happen to be in our brain. So what if consciousness is a projection of the activity of our neurons into a(nother?) dimension in which we are embedded at all times? We know it from experiencing it when we are awake. Why does it disappear when we sleep and reappear in the form of our dreams, which are equally real—just another form of consciousness? The thought of consciousness (art, philosophy, music,...) as magical is annoying . Yes, it purports to explain something that we really don’t understand. i'm a bit lost inbetween faith and science perhaps. Untill the next hypothesis
Sorry that I came of as the hardcore rationalist, I really found it a very interesting post, I haven't come across a more beautiful explanation for the concept of "God", as you portray it this can be very strong. In your defintion I am closeminded but i'm too pragmatic to not take life in my own hands. When we are talking about survival, life and death, moral situations with either choice ending negatively, when there's only despair and the realization it will be over I find it too easy to have faith that the choice will be made for you.
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Dawks
Jolly African Potato


Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 4,935
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Quote:
Fire is Born said: Fuck reading all this. Just riddle me one thing......Why do you believe in god? Or any god for that matter
Imagine there is this drug, but it's free, legal and built into your brain. You can't overdose and there is no tolerance.. in fact the more you use it the better it feels. It is very euphoric and kills any sort of anxiety, worries and doubts and it motivates you to better yourself. Despite popular belief, using this drug doesn't stop you thinking logically/rationally and having a passion for science.
That's what having faith is like. Or any form of Bhakti/devotional yoga. Obviously you can "believe in god" and still feel like shit but belief is not important. It's the act of actually loving god and being thankful to god that causes the amazing feelings.
Think of it like a brain hack. Love is a powerfully positive emotion BUT no earthly love is unconditional. You may love your wife very much, but if she starts sleeping with other guys, treats you like dirt and takes all your money you don't love her as much any more do you? That love has conditions. However if you love God, Krishna or whatever deity you are in effect hacking the brains mechanism for love. You can love this deity as much as you like, love them more every day and all those positive feelings you get from love just keep growing because this love is without condition.
Asking why someone has faith is like asking why they drop acid. Feels good man.
--------------------
date ; unzip ; strip ; touch ; grep ; finger ; mount ; fsck ; more ; yes ; umount ; sleep
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Dawks]
#18817906 - 09/09/13 06:01 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Woo. Big time.
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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King Klick
That Guy Everyone Knows



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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Dawks]
#18817946 - 09/09/13 06:40 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dawks said:
Quote:
Fire is Born said: Fuck reading all this. Just riddle me one thing......Why do you believe in god? Or any god for that matter
Imagine there is this drug, but it's free, legal and built into your brain. You can't overdose and there is no tolerance.. in fact the more you use it the better it feels. It is very euphoric and kills any sort of anxiety, worries and doubts and it motivates you to better yourself. Despite popular belief, using this drug doesn't stop you thinking logically/rationally and having a passion for science.
That's what having faith is like. Or any form of Bhakti/devotional yoga. Obviously you can "believe in god" and still feel like shit but belief is not important. It's the act of actually loving god and being thankful to god that causes the amazing feelings.
Think of it like a brain hack. Love is a powerfully positive emotion BUT no earthly love is unconditional. You may love your wife very much, but if she starts sleeping with other guys, treats you like dirt and takes all your money you don't love her as much any more do you? That love has conditions. However if you love God, Krishna or whatever deity you are in effect hacking the brains mechanism for love. You can love this deity as much as you like, love them more every day and all those positive feelings you get from love just keep growing because this love is without condition.
Asking why someone has faith is like asking why they drop acid. Feels good man.
It's not faith your feeling, it's community. More so conformity. But that description gave us no indication of why you believe in a god other than it feels good to lie to myself.
-------------------- Your god is dead, and I killed him. When you’re lost, here I am. Forever with your soul
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Fire is Born
wanderer



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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Dawks]
#18817962 - 09/09/13 06:47 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dawks said:
Quote:
Fire is Born said: Fuck reading all this. Just riddle me one thing......Why do you believe in god? Or any god for that matter
Imagine there is this drug, but it's free, legal and built into your brain. You can't overdose and there is no tolerance.. in fact the more you use it the better it feels. It is very euphoric and kills any sort of anxiety, worries and doubts and it motivates you to better yourself. Despite popular belief, using this drug doesn't stop you thinking logically/rationally and having a passion for science.
That's what having faith is like. Or any form of Bhakti/devotional yoga. Obviously you can "believe in god" and still feel like shit but belief is not important. It's the act of actually loving god and being thankful to god that causes the amazing feelings.
Think of it like a brain hack. Love is a powerfully positive emotion BUT no earthly love is unconditional. You may love your wife very much, but if she starts sleeping with other guys, treats you like dirt and takes all your money you don't love her as much any more do you? That love has conditions. However if you love God, Krishna or whatever deity you are in effect hacking the brains mechanism for love. You can love this deity as much as you like, love them more every day and all those positive feelings you get from love just keep growing because this love is without condition.
Asking why someone has faith is like asking why they drop acid. Feels good man.
Not really. Plenty of people are happy all the time and don't believe in God. A lot of religious people are extremely unhappy as well. So I do not agree with you. That was just a generalization. I can shkw you many depressed and suicidal religous types, angry womanizers and rapists....
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Fire is Born
wanderer



Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 2,016
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I'd argue more a case of closure born from fear
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
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Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
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You can give something you've made up any properties you wish. It has unconditional love for you. How much more narcissistic can you get?
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Fire is Born
wanderer



Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 2,016
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18817994 - 09/09/13 07:11 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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So buying a sex doll = happiness/god?
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,049
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Quote:
Fire is Born said: So buying a sex doll = happiness?
I think sucking your own dick is a better analogy.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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TwinEclipse
Psychedelic Alchemist


Registered: 07/06/13
Posts: 1,499
Loc: NGC1097
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18818007 - 09/09/13 07:20 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Belief in god doesn't teach you anything people haven't already learned through experience and investigation of the world we live in. I'm not sure why you think hope and love have any relationship to a particular belief.
I believe hope and love demonstrate the CONNECTED nature between us(humans, respect for animals, organisms) and the future(hope).
See, thing is, atheism isn't enough to fulfill my sense of completeness(not a word?). I have been brought up with varying views of God, and although right now my beliefs are severely challenged, I still want to believe there is a higher order that created this universe.
However, the dark spots(currently incomprehensible/impossible physics) around the edges of our universe may spark controversy for the possibility of OTHER universes. And I thought infinity was big enough already 
My spirit is constantly learning. I will not blindly believe anymore. I need to KNOW. Which is why my theistic beliefs are challenged.
-------------------- My purpose: to love, to share, and to experience....all while conforming to my psychedelic experiences.
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Fire is Born
wanderer



Registered: 05/17/10
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18818010 - 09/09/13 07:21 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think my annology of lust and love for the imaginary and fake is more appropriate.
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Fire is Born
wanderer



Registered: 05/17/10
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: TwinEclipse]
#18818016 - 09/09/13 07:24 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
TwinEclipse said:
Quote:
koods said:
Belief in god doesn't teach you anything people haven't already learned through experience and investigation of the world we live in. I'm not sure why you think hope and love have any relationship to a particular belief.
I believe hope and love demonstrate the CONNECTED nature between us(humans, respect for animals, organisms) and the future(hope).
See, thing is, atheism isn't enough to fulfill my sense of completeness(not a word?). I have been brought up with varying views of God, and although right now my beliefs are severely challenged, I still want to believe there is a higher order that created this universe.
However, the dark spots(currently incomprehensible/impossible physics) around the edges of our universe may spark controversy for the possibility of OTHER universes. And I thought infinity was big enough already 
My spirit is constantly learning. I will not blindly believe anymore. I need to KNOW. Which is why my theistic beliefs are challenged.
Theism is for philistines
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Eggtimer
HotSauce Lover

Registered: 05/04/13
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18818024 - 09/09/13 07:27 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Gotta think of the big picture.
-------------------- It's all for the s
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Eggtimer]
#18818030 - 09/09/13 07:33 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Eggtimer said: Gotta think of the big picture.

Did you steal that from a knight?
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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UnholyChild666
I'M GOD

Registered: 03/26/06
Posts: 8,940
Loc:
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: ModestMouse]
#18818757 - 09/09/13 12:31 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
ModestMouse said:
Quote:
UnholyChild666 said: I'm God rich kid I'll decide what is and isn't.
My favorite part about you is that you consistently shitpost in every religious thread thus destroying the thread so no one has to deal with it.
I don't post in religious threads rich kid let me make the decisions not that you have a choice.
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"I am the Highest Power the leader of the pack" Actiavte My Dream Sequence Machine GOD of the hologram earth
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


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what is OP on about? Does he realize atheism is no belief system, philosophy, or anything else?
Next he's gonna bitch about 'OFF' being the worst tv channel ever.
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
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Is "rich kid" some kind of literary tic, the way people use "like" or "umm?"
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: what is OP on about? Does he realize atheism is no belief system, philosophy, or anything else?
Next he's gonna bitch about 'OFF' being the worst tv channel ever.
Very nice analogy,
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (09/09/13 12:57 PM)
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pmoseman
Illogical Ninja


Registered: 08/29/13
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Eggtimer]
#18818877 - 09/09/13 01:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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 The Nickle (Ni) is taken. Have to go with midenismós (Mi).
Edited by pmoseman (09/09/13 01:28 PM)
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idiotek


Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 40,728
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods] 1
#18818884 - 09/09/13 01:14 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said: Accepted definition my ass. No such thing. to if someone asks if I am an atheist I will say no and I will not say that I am an atheist. That is my prerogative. I have my own motives and you don't get to tell me what I am. Everyone has their own lexicon; only rain man has webster in his head. don't even try arguing this point with me guys. you will only make yourselves look ignorant
You don't get to choose the definition of words in your vocabulary regardless of what you think. What you're really saying here is, don't bother arguing with me, because I'm going to twist the meaning of words until they fit my purposes. You seem to enjoy crediting yourself as some kind of linguistics expert yet your posts are generally rambling and awkwardly verbose.
Quote:
JoieDeVivre said: However there is certainly logical deductions that can be done with all human knowledge and the tenets of theistic doctrines. Unless you manipulate the theistic doctrines to something that solely resides in pockets of ignorance, it's pretty obvious humans have been wrong about divinity for all of history. I mean when you study any theistic doctrine most of them are heavily rooted in completely human ideas with the caveat that paradoxes = divinity which just means that what is incomprehensible we assume is some magical entity. If you study history, humans have always used religion to fill in the gaps of knowledge. So in my mind anything someone else says about religion or god, unless confirmed by my own experience, is more of a projection of their own mind than a verifiable conclusion of anything "divine".

Nothing further really needs to be said beyond that eloquent statement.
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: idiotek]
#18818897 - 09/09/13 01:20 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Everyone has their own lexicon
Ahhhh. That's not how it is supposed to work. A lexicon is what everybody agrees upon, pretty much the opposite of what you think it is.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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ClockCode
A Lonely Hypha


Registered: 11/12/12
Posts: 546
Loc: The Highest Desert
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18818907 - 09/09/13 01:26 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I remember when I wasted time with silly discussions like this.
-------------------- Psilovibing
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods] 1
#18818912 - 09/09/13 01:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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When someone is losing the argument, they change the argument.
Pretty soon we'll have the Pope saying "God IS science!"
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The Doobie Dude


Registered: 04/28/13
Posts: 13,498
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18818916 - 09/09/13 01:28 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I call myself an antagonizing agnostic because I'm just a slightly advanced ape on a rock floating a ball of hydrogen gas. I know nothing of the existence after life. Although I do enjoy pissing off christians.
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"There are a million reasons to drink and one just popped into my head. If a man can't drink when he's living how the Hell can he drink when he's dead?" - Irish Limerick I PLURed once because it was PLUR or die. - D.M.T.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


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Quote:
The Doobie Dude said: I call myself an antagonizing agnostic because I'm just a slightly advanced ape on a rock floating a ball of hydrogen gas. I know nothing of the existence after life. Although I do enjoy pissing off christians.
Agnosticism is the tits if you're an empirical type. But you better start coming up with terms for the uncertainty of literally everything that is or isnt in existence. Vampires, werewolves, flying spaghetti monsters, etc.
Agnostics are just too pussy to commit to logic. Its a watered down Pascal's wager.
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
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Loc: Turtle Island
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that's small minded
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The Doobie Dude


Registered: 04/28/13
Posts: 13,498
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Are you legally retarted? So tell me Mr. All Knowing what happens after death? If you're wrong I hope you know you're stupid.
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"There are a million reasons to drink and one just popped into my head. If a man can't drink when he's living how the Hell can he drink when he's dead?" - Irish Limerick I PLURed once because it was PLUR or die. - D.M.T.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
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Quote:
The Doobie Dude said: Are you legally retarted? So tell me Mr. All Knowing what happens after death? If you're wrong I hope you know you're stupid.
Can you be more specific?
What happens to my body or my consciousness?
If we're speaking in general terms, after I die the world will rip itself apart in anguish and hopelessness.
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pmoseman
Illogical Ninja


Registered: 08/29/13
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Quote:
The Doobie Dude said: What happens after death?
What happened before you are born.
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: pmoseman]
#18818975 - 09/09/13 01:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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your parents do it
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pmoseman
Illogical Ninja


Registered: 08/29/13
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: your parents do it
Birth is conception. Baby killer. What happens after people die is that they lay down. Obviously not what we are after.
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qman
Stranger

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Quote:
The Doobie Dude said: Are you legally retarted? So tell me Mr. All Knowing what happens after death? If you're wrong I hope you know you're stupid.
We visit a Jewish man that lived 2000 years ago?
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teenagehippie
Stranger


Registered: 05/30/13
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: qman]
#18819022 - 09/09/13 02:04 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Religion is the worst thing to ever happen to humanity. Period. The above video also pretty much shows it as a sham.
Having faith is good. Following religion is man's downfall.
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
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Quote:
The Doobie Dude said: Are you legally retarted? So tell me Mr. All Knowing what happens after death? If you're wrong I hope you know you're stupid.
Ooo! Ooh! I know! It is actually VERY well documented. Your body decomposes, and all the little connections that made you who you were crumble. Your body ceases to exist and since your mind and your consciousness are merely a manifestation of the way atoms and molecules were organized in said body, your mind ceases to function and your consciousness simply vanishes. There is absolutely no evidence to believe anything else. Of course, you WANT to believe that can't possibly be true, but it appears to be.
So, you better make the most of this life, because you don't get any more.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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pmoseman
Illogical Ninja


Registered: 08/29/13
Posts: 61
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18819056 - 09/09/13 02:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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.Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
The Doobie Dude said: Are you legally retarted? So tell me Mr. All Knowing what happens after death? If you're wrong I hope you know you're stupid.
Ooo! Ooh! I know! It is actually VERY well documented. Your body decomposes, and all the little connections that made you who you were crumble. Your body ceases to exist and since your mind and your consciousness are merely a manifestation of the way atoms and molecules were organized in said body, your mind ceases to function and your consciousness simply vanishes. There is absolutely no evidence to believe anything else. Of course, you WANT to believe that can't possibly be true, but it appears to be.
So, you better make the most of this life, because you don't get any more.
I am not entirely in agreement. The way you describe consciousness is as something that arises out from the atoms and molecules, that it can be destroyed and created, joining and leaving existence. Not saying that is not possible, it seems so, but it does require an explanation.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: pmoseman]
#18819080 - 09/09/13 02:18 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
pmoseman said: .Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
The Doobie Dude said: Are you legally retarted? So tell me Mr. All Knowing what happens after death? If you're wrong I hope you know you're stupid.
Ooo! Ooh! I know! It is actually VERY well documented. Your body decomposes, and all the little connections that made you who you were crumble. Your body ceases to exist and since your mind and your consciousness are merely a manifestation of the way atoms and molecules were organized in said body, your mind ceases to function and your consciousness simply vanishes. There is absolutely no evidence to believe anything else. Of course, you WANT to believe that can't possibly be true, but it appears to be.
So, you better make the most of this life, because you don't get any more.
I am not entirely in agreement. The way you describe consciousness is as something that arises out from the atoms and molecules, that it can be destroyed and created, joining and leaving existence. Not saying that is not possible, it seems so, but it does require an explanation.
So you think everything else in the entire universe that exists because of matter, except consciousness?
Bro. Your brain is just a very complicated electrical circuit that acts based on proteins and acids. Theres no magic involved. Sorry, but we're not special. Just a sack of water finding the best way to make new sacks of water.
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: pmoseman]
#18819087 - 09/09/13 02:20 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
pmoseman said: .Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
The Doobie Dude said: Are you legally retarted? So tell me Mr. All Knowing what happens after death? If you're wrong I hope you know you're stupid.
Ooo! Ooh! I know! It is actually VERY well documented. Your body decomposes, and all the little connections that made you who you were crumble. Your body ceases to exist and since your mind and your consciousness are merely a manifestation of the way atoms and molecules were organized in said body, your mind ceases to function and your consciousness simply vanishes. There is absolutely no evidence to believe anything else. Of course, you WANT to believe that can't possibly be true, but it appears to be.
So, you better make the most of this life, because you don't get any more.
I am not entirely in agreement. The way you describe consciousness is as something that arises out from the atoms and molecules, that it can be destroyed and created, joining and leaving existence. Not saying that is not possible, it seems so, but it does require an explanation.
Consciousness, self awareness, personality - whatever you wish to call it - is clearly nothing but a property of the brain and there is all of human history to back that claim up. Damage to the brain alters these things in demonstrable AND predictable ways. Enough damage, and they cease to exist.
It may be a difficult idea to understand or accept, but that doesn't mean it isn't true,
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (09/09/13 02:21 PM)
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18819100 - 09/09/13 02:26 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sorry, but we're not special. Just a sack of water finding the best way to make new sacks of water.
We exist as vehicles to carry our genes safely through time and space. The only thing that that lives on after we die is the code stored in our DNA,
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18819116 - 09/09/13 02:31 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Sorry, but we're not special. Just a sack of water finding the best way to make new sacks of water.
We exist as vehicles to carry our genes safely through time and space. The only thing that that lives on after we die is the code stored in our DNA,
And the little microbes that are finally free to devour us without those pesky antibodies.
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18819118 - 09/09/13 02:31 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Sorry, but we're not special. Just a sack of water finding the best way to make new sacks of water.
We exist as vehicles to carry our genes safely through time and space. The only thing that that lives on after we die is the code stored in our DNA,
Arguably parts of our consciousness sort of live on in the minds of people who remember us, kind of a "ghost in the machine" thing.
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: psi]
#18819130 - 09/09/13 02:37 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think we are special. A few simple physical laws and constants have enabled matter to assemble in such a way that over the lifetime of the universe, these assemblages of common atoms have become aware of themselves and the natural forces that lead to their own complexity. That's fucking awesome.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18819171 - 09/09/13 02:51 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: I think we are special. A few simple physical laws and constants have enabled matter to assemble in such a way that over the lifetime of the universe, these assemblages of common atoms have become aware of themselves and the natural forces that lead to their own complexity. That's fucking awesome.
it really is 
reminds me of a quote: "we exist as a means for the universe to experience itself."
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
koods said: I think we are special. A few simple physical laws and constants have enabled matter to assemble in such a way that over the lifetime of the universe, these assemblages of common atoms have become aware of themselves and the natural forces that lead to their own complexity. That's fucking awesome.
it really is 
reminds me of a quote: "we exist as a means for the universe to experience itself."
It's so much more spectacular than "god did it."
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Fire is Born
wanderer



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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18819443 - 09/09/13 04:06 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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When I die I'm coming back as a fucking eagle. Its what i want to believe. If you think I'm wrong then you're small minded
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
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Quote:
Fire is Born said: When I die I'm coming back as a fucking eagle. Its what i want to believe. If you think I'm wrong then you're small minded
And you're so open minded your brain has fallen out.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Gilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 11,671
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18819491 - 09/09/13 04:16 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Fire is Born said: When I die I'm coming back as a fucking eagle. Its what i want to believe. If you think I'm wrong then you're small minded
And you're so open minded your brain has fallen out.
Damn owned koods im stealing that phrase and using it!
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18819513 - 09/09/13 04:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Consciousness exists outside of physical reality. We are just beginning to understand the nature of multiple dimensions. To think we have it all figured out is folly.
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Shroomism]
#18819576 - 09/09/13 04:36 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Consciousness requires a brain, and the condition of that consciousness is directly related to the condition of that brain. It's not really something serious people would consider debatable.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18819580 - 09/09/13 04:37 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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If consciousness requires a brain, how are people able to go out of their body?
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Shroomism] 1
#18819598 - 09/09/13 04:41 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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They don't.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18819600 - 09/09/13 04:41 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Says who? You? You some kind of expert on the subject?
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Shroomism]
#18819630 - 09/09/13 04:48 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Out of body experiences are easily explained without resorting to supernatural forces.
I've personally had episodes of sleep paralysis where I have seen myself on the floor next to my bed or couch. These visions have been real enough to me that when this has happened while other people are in the room I've gotten mad at them for not helping me when I fell off the couch, They always say "dude, you've been in the same spot this whole time."
It's fairly well understood that out of body experiences are the result of mismatched sensory inputs.
Researchers can easily induce the effect using a couple mirrors and some touching. An example of the effect on a small scale is the trick where two people put their hands together and you stroke two fingers together. It feels like the finger is not part of your own body.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (09/09/13 04:56 PM)
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RiderOnTheStorm
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Shroomism]
#18819655 - 09/09/13 04:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said: If consciousness requires a brain, how are people able to go out of their body?
The brain is a powerful computer that is insanely good at creating sensory hallucinations. Lucid dreaming, psychedelics, NDEs and OOBEs are just demonstrations of how powerful it is. I've had a sober OOBE and I don't believe for one minute that a "soul" actually left my body. My brain simply projected what it would see from the given point and it overrode my actual field of vision for a short while.
One things is beyond any doubt for me though, if someone had shot me in the head while I was having the experience it would have ended.
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Shroomism
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Ok, I guess we will see wont we. This isn't the sort of thing that can be proven empirically anyhow. Not at our current level of understanding. So arguing about it is rather pointless.
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koods
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This is psychedelic drug forum. It should be a no brainer. ( ) We like to take drugs that alter our consciousness and the way these drugs work is they alter the normal functions in the brain.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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pmoseman
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:So you think everything else in the entire universe that exists because of matter, except consciousness? Bro. Your brain is just a very complicated electrical circuit that acts based on proteins and acids. Theres no magic involved. Sorry, but we're not special. Just a sack of water finding the best way to make new sacks of water.
Astronomers are currently perplexed because matter appears to be only 4% of stuff in the universe. The amount of living material is 10^40 times less than the amount of all that material. So I do not know what "everything else" is, if it is not consciousness.
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koods
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: pmoseman]
#18819706 - 09/09/13 05:07 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
pmoseman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:So you think everything else in the entire universe that exists because of matter, except consciousness? Bro. Your brain is just a very complicated electrical circuit that acts based on proteins and acids. Theres no magic involved. Sorry, but we're not special. Just a sack of water finding the best way to make new sacks of water.
Astronomers are currently perplexed because matter appears to be only 4% of stuff in the universe. The amount of living material is 10^40 times less than the amount of all that material. So I do not know what "everything else" is, if it is not consciousness.
Well, there ya go. This is where the type of reasoning.championed by the religious takes you: if you don't know what something is or how it works, it must be God Consciousness.
It could be invisible marshmallows. Or the socks that disappear from dryers.
Edited by koods (09/09/13 05:08 PM)
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RiderOnTheStorm
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Shroomism]
#18819713 - 09/09/13 05:08 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Shroomism said: Ok, I guess we will see wont we. This isn't the sort of thing that can be proven empirically anyhow. Not at our current level of understanding. So arguing about it is rather pointless.
I don't think we will, unfortunately.
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Shroomism
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My past 4,000 lives say otherwise
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koods
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Quote:
RiderOnTheStorm said:
Quote:
Shroomism said: Ok, I guess we will see wont we. This isn't the sort of thing that can be proven empirically anyhow. Not at our current level of understanding. So arguing about it is rather pointless.
I don't think we will, unfortunately.
Yes, it is a property of things that do not exist that they never reveal themselves.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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koods
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Shroomism]
#18819725 - 09/09/13 05:11 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said: My past 4,000 lives say otherwise 
Name them
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (09/09/13 05:12 PM)
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shivas.wisdom
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what about near death experiences?
consciousness continuing through periods of zero EEG activity seems to suggest something beyond the physical brain
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koods
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: what about near death experiences?
consciousness continuing through periods of zero EEG activity seems to suggest something beyond the physical brain
It suggests to me that somebody should invent a better EEG. Seriously, a device that detects electrical activity of an organ through layers of brain, fat, skin and skull is a pretty crude instrument.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (09/09/13 05:19 PM)
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RiderOnTheStorm
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: what about near death experiences?
consciousness continuing through periods of zero EEG activity seems to suggest something beyond the physical brain
What about them?
No it doesn't, it seems to suggest that we either don't know as much about brain activity as we thought, or that certain manufacturers suck at making EEG machines. In no concrete or empirical way does it suggest that consciousness resides externally of the mind.
Not to mention that all three of the articles I've read where what you're describing was said to have happened ended up having holes and discrepancies that called the credibility of the story into question, so I'm not even convinced such a thing has really taken place.
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But I'll accept your premise for a moment and allow for the fact that there was for a short period zero brain activity. You still need to demonstrate that this experience occurred during that short time frame, and there is really nobody available to testify to the time frame - the only witness was dead.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Dawks
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Quote:
King Klick said: It's not faith your feeling, it's community. More so conformity. But that description gave us no indication of why you believe in a god other than it feels good to lie to myself.
No offense Mr. Klick but it sounds like you didn't even read my post. What I said has nothing to do with religion, scripture or going to church. It deals with personal practice of cultivating internal feelings of well-being though positive and fantastic thinking.
Lie to myself? So if I chose to look at a glass as being half full I'm lying to myself? It's really half empty right? 
Quote:
Fire is Born said: Not really. Plenty of people are happy all the time and don't believe in God. A lot of religious people are extremely unhappy as well. So I do not agree with you. That was just a generalization. I can shkw you many depressed and suicidal religous types, angry womanizers and rapists....
I'm not saying you need to have faith to be happy. I certainly don't believe in God as an objective quantifiable phenomenon, no more than unicorns and fairies. However I certainly enjoy the positive effects of this subjective, psychological phenomenon.
What I'm saying is that faith is a practice of the mind that a person can use to cultivate feelings of well-being. It's not the only way to do it. Just one of many. Unfortunately these days people are only concerned with learning what to think, rather than how to think. Knowledge is useless without a way of managing/applying it.
Anyone who argues over whether or not God is "real" have lost the plot completely. God is no more or less real than Homer Simpson.
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koods
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Dawks]
#18819836 - 09/09/13 05:40 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
So if I chose to look at a glass as being half full I'm lying to myself? It's really half empty right?
The problem is there is no glass.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Dawks
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18819854 - 09/09/13 05:45 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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pmoseman
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18819918 - 09/09/13 06:04 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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koods said:
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pmoseman said: .Quote:
koods said:
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The Doobie Dude said: Are you legally retarted? So tell me Mr. All Knowing what happens after death? If you're wrong I hope you know you're stupid.
Ooo! Ooh! I know! It is actually VERY well documented. Your body decomposes, and all the little connections that made you who you were crumble. Your body ceases to exist and since your mind and your consciousness are merely a manifestation of the way atoms and molecules were organized in said body, your mind ceases to function and your consciousness simply vanishes. There is absolutely no evidence to believe anything else. Of course, you WANT to believe that can't possibly be true, but it appears to be.
So, you better make the most of this life, because you don't get any more.
I am not entirely in agreement. The way you describe consciousness is as something that arises out from the atoms and molecules, that it can be destroyed and created, joining and leaving existence. Not saying that is not possible, it seems so, but it does require an explanation.
Consciousness, self awareness, personality - whatever you wish to call it - is clearly nothing but a property of the brain and there is all of human history to back that claim up. Damage to the brain alters these things in demonstrable AND predictable ways. Enough damage, and they cease to exist.
It may be a difficult idea to understand or accept, but that doesn't mean it isn't true,
Mind or consciousness is a phenomena to do with the brain. After observed loss of mental activity life has not appeared to resume. The mind is produced to assist survival. Our brain is a combination of different layers, each with a sub-conscience effect, engineered in stages by evolution. This placing of all consciousness on a scale may explain various abnormal states and personalities. Simpler organisms possessing only a rudimentary awareness. The mind is kind of like a vehicle or a computer in the sense that it is a complex assemblage of parts, with every part by itself easily understood and when placed together the operation is thought of as a single unit and when we do not understand it, we fail to see its many parts. Your description just had me thinking you meant it was more than its parts. Something "manifest" that is not explained. We do not have an explanation of each simple process. That is required and then there will be no room left for a "mind" that travels beyond death.
Edited by pmoseman (09/09/13 06:13 PM)
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koods
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: pmoseman]
#18820059 - 09/09/13 06:36 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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pmoseman
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18820072 - 09/09/13 06:38 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
pmoseman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:So you think everything else in the entire universe that exists because of matter, except consciousness? Bro. Your brain is just a very complicated electrical circuit that acts based on proteins and acids. Theres no magic involved. Sorry, but we're not special. Just a sack of water finding the best way to make new sacks of water.
Astronomers are currently perplexed because matter appears to be only 4% of stuff in the universe. The amount of living material is 10^40 times less than the amount of all that material. So I do not know what "everything else" is, if it is not consciousness.
Well, there ya go. This is where the type of reasoning.championed by the religious takes you: if you don't know what something is or how it works, it must be God Consciousness.
It could be invisible marshmallows. Or the socks that disappear from dryers.
I do not know what he thinks the "everything else" is or how things exists because of it. See?
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: pmoseman]
#18820156 - 09/09/13 06:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Is the glass half full or empty... the glass is technically always full, be it of water or oxygen you're just percieving half of the contents and assuming the rest is "nothing". like religion you assume that which you don't doesn't exist so you fill it with a concept to bridge the gap and find some comfort in yourself.
-------------------- The Universe has an interesting sense of irony, in that you are the universe experiencing itself. All you are is a thought.
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Dawks
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: omegafaust] 1
#18820196 - 09/09/13 07:00 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
omegafaust said: Is the glass half full or empty... the glass is technically always full, be it of water or oxygen you're just percieving half of the contents and assuming the rest is "nothing". like religion you assume that which you don't doesn't exist so you fill it with a concept to bridge the gap and find some comfort in yourself.
Half full [of water]. The "Of water" is implicit. Hell if you're gonna durp the durr why not point out that matter is 99% empty space and the glass is pretty much always empty?
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18820246 - 09/09/13 07:12 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
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koods said: I think we are special. A few simple physical laws and constants have enabled matter to assemble in such a way that over the lifetime of the universe, these assemblages of common atoms have become aware of themselves and the natural forces that lead to their own complexity. That's fucking awesome.
it really is 
reminds me of a quote: "we exist as a means for the universe to experience itself."
It's so much more spectacular than "god did it."
You know, I've learned something today. I never really knew the actual definitions of atheists and agnostics, I just always considered myself agnostic because they tend to be less annoying than atheists and less anti-religion. But if the true definition of atheist is simply "without theistic belief" then I guess I am an atheist. Although I'm still on the fence about the nature of how the fuck all those particles got together to form beings that are aware of themselves and their surroundings and down to the very building blocks we are made of. A lot of people think the Big Bang was some miracle, and it is, don't get me wrong. But I honestly think the big bang of life, the first proteins to form, the first cells and organisms to form, the first thoughts and reasoning to form.... that stuff blows my mind even more.
Whether God did it, or the universe simply did it to itself, really doesn't matter... it's absolutely mind-blowing no matter how it came to be, and it makes life very special to me. These are the type of things my brain ponders all the time so I'm in this sort of amazed daze of awe for the majority of my conscious life.
Life sure is trippy
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pmoseman
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: omegafaust]
#18820299 - 09/09/13 07:23 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
omegafaust said: Is the glass half full or empty... the glass is technically always full, be it of water or oxygen you're just percieving half of the contents and assuming the rest is "nothing". like religion you assume that which you don't doesn't exist so you fill it with a concept to bridge the gap and find some comfort in yourself.
Oh yes, I agree. I have jumped ship on my rigid classification of everything as 0 or 1. You cannot effectively spend time in a purely inward focus. You have to loosen up and become cognizant of what other people thinking. If that half a cup of water has been sitting around as long as that analogy, it obviously has something else in it.
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18821023 - 09/09/13 09:48 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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koods said:
Quote:
BlindSophist said: So atheists believe themselves to be especially unspecial, then? 
The theist thinks he is special because his claims don't require the evidence any other claim would. The atheist thinks there is nothing special about the theists claims. How can something be especially unspecial? That's like matter and anti-matter.
Hmm, atheists and theists do release enormous amounts of energy upon collision. Well played, koods... well played.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods] 1
#18821045 - 09/09/13 09:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
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shivas.wisdom said: what about near death experiences?
consciousness continuing through periods of zero EEG activity seems to suggest something beyond the physical brain
It suggests to me that somebody should invent a better EEG. Seriously, a device that detects electrical activity of an organ through layers of brain, fat, skin and skull is a pretty crude instrument.
They have imaging technology that can capture cortical interactions through a very thin layer of bone. That said, figuring out which regions of the cortex continue functioning in a dying brain would probably be like finding a needle in a haystack, except the needle only exists very briefly and you have to kill each straw individually. And this is assuming that the prevailing model of consciousness (that it is generated locally by the brain) is correct-- a parsimonious but unverified assumption.
I have a sneaky feeling that the physical and energetic nature of consciousness can't be pinned down according to currently existing models of energy transfer. I haven't seen that we've gone any farther than correlating subjective experiences with objective measurements of brain functioning. There is no satisfactory proof that consciousness is generated by the brain, only the working assumption. I could be wrong about this, and if so I'd just love to be corrected...
I generally believe that the brain operates as a "receiver" or even just as a focusing lens for a larger energy field which is universal consciousness. This is actually a more parsimonious explanation than the local model for most intents and purposes that don't involve the study of energy transfer under the prevailing scientific paradigm.
Edited by Sophistic Radiance (09/09/13 10:05 PM)
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Shins
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Pantheism
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g00ru
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Quote:
BlindSophist said: This is actually a more parsimonious explanation than the local model for most intents and purposes that don't involve the study of energy transfer under the prevailing scientific paradigm.
yep explains so much more imo
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koods
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: g00ru]
#18821173 - 09/09/13 10:35 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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There is no satisfactory proof that consciousness is generated by the brain, only the working assumption. I could be wrong about this, and if so I'd just love to be corrected...
Hardly an assumption. There is a direct correlation between the physical structure and conscious awareness. Damage to brain structure results in predictable changes or deficits in consciousness. This isn't merely a correlation, it is cause and effect. Drugs change brain function, and this manifests itself in alterations in our consciousness,
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18821309 - 09/09/13 11:09 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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"There are a million reasons to drink and one just popped into my head. If a man can't drink when he's living how the Hell can he drink when he's dead?" - Irish Limerick I PLURed once because it was PLUR or die. - D.M.T.
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BittrBuffalo
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Shins]
#18821372 - 09/09/13 11:25 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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The major problem with the God(s) vs. No God(s) argument is that it almost always begins as a pissing match between two sides in which one attempts to prove superiority over the other, then as the discourse is eventually dominated by one side, it collapses into a massive, sweaty circlejerk.
Being a meatbag animated by the movement of electrical currents that have evolved into patterns over time by the movement of atoms, molecules and chemical reactions that express themselves in a form that we call "consciousness" in order to facilitate the movement of DNA through the Universe--this implies that our actual "points of view" are biologically useful energy patterns that help us get laid. All of our thoughts and philosophies and ideas could be biologically useful total bullshit fantasy. This, arguably, goes all ways, and everything we think of as factual or reasonable or holy might be an illusion, and it wouldn't matter to the Universe. Therefore, to claim we know the truth about anything, or have a better handle on The Way Shit Really Is than that Other Douchebag Over There, is both useless and probably false. It's all an illusion, man...
Everything I just said could be wrong, and fuck you guys for making me sound like a stoner.
-------------------- Disclaimer: This post is a work of fiction, provided for entertainment purposes only. Any resemblance to actual persons or events, past or present, is strictly coincidental. All celebrity voices are impersonated. If you begin your ID request with, "I just ate a bunch of these mushrooms…should I not have done that?" I'm just gonna sit back and watch Darwin at work.
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18821374 - 09/09/13 11:26 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
There is no satisfactory proof that consciousness is generated by the brain, only the working assumption. I could be wrong about this, and if so I'd just love to be corrected...
Hardly an assumption. There is a direct correlation between the physical structure and conscious awareness. Damage to brain structure results in predictable changes or deficits in consciousness. This isn't merely a correlation, it is cause and effect. Drugs change brain function, and this manifests itself in alterations in our consciousness,
What if you crack a magnifying glass and can no longer use it to light your pipe with the sun? Does it imply that the sun no longer exists, since you can't take sun hits anymore?
If you were on an island full of weed but no flint or tinder, that magnifying glass would be the only way to smoke it.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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koods
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Oh shit. I didn't know it was dumb to use your brain to think. Why didn't someone tell me that God would think for me? I feel like I've been drugged with stupidcain.
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koods
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Quote:
BlindSophist said:
Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
There is no satisfactory proof that consciousness is generated by the brain, only the working assumption. I could be wrong about this, and if so I'd just love to be corrected...
Hardly an assumption. There is a direct correlation between the physical structure and conscious awareness. Damage to brain structure results in predictable changes or deficits in consciousness. This isn't merely a correlation, it is cause and effect. Drugs change brain function, and this manifests itself in alterations in our consciousness,
What if you crack a magnifying glass and can no longer use it to light your pipe with the sun? Does it imply that the sun no longer exists, since you can't take sun hits anymore?
If you were on an island full of weed but no flint or tinder, that magnifying glass would be the only way to smoke it.
Well those are nice sentences but they don't really make much sense - they certainly don't provide any insight into our understanding of consciousness. You seem to be introducing the premise that consciousness is like the sun, an external beam of energy? I don't accept that premise at all. There is no reason to suspect this would be true.
We already have a theory of the mind that is testable, and that theory is that consciousness is a property of the physical brain. We are perfectly capable of messing with consciousness by messing with the brain. We have a decent map of the brain and where functions are located. A mad scientist could take your self identity away one piece at a time with a scalpel.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Sophistic Radiance
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18821437 - 09/09/13 11:48 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: Well those are nice sentences but they don't really make much sense - they certainly don't provide any insight into our understanding of consciousness. You seem to be introducing the premise that consciousness is like the sun, an external beam of energy? I don't accept that premise at all. There is no reason to suspect this would be true.
There is every reason to suspect that this would be true in situations that don't demand falsifiable hypotheses according to measurable data. In most cases, it is far more parsimonious to assume consciousness is common, instead of discrete. For example, I assume that I see the same color blue that you do, and for all practical intents and purposes, this is true. In most given conversations it would be a tragic waste of time and effort to try to describe the color blue in terms of synaptic activity or wavelength instead of just saying "blue".
Quote:
We already have a theory of the mind that is testable, and that theory is that consciousness is a property of the physical brain. We are perfectly capable of messing with consciousness by messing with the brain. We have a decent map of the brain and where functions are located. A mad scientist could take your self identity away one piece at a time with a scalpel.
Just like an electrician could modify a color TV to display black and white? That doesn't mean the color TV displaying black-and-white images is receiving a black-and-white signal, and the brain's functioning is a bit more complex than that of a TV set.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
Edited by Sophistic Radiance (09/09/13 11:57 PM)
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koods
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Have you considered that we have common perceptions and cognition because we generally have the same physiology? Our brains are discrete but they all came from the same blueprint.
I'm not talking about changing the color palette. I'm talking about ripping the knobs and antenna off.
Color is initially nothing more than cells sensitive to certain wavelengths firing under the appropriate stimuli. That basic information works it way through the non conscious parts of the mind and is tanslated and manipulated to be eventually presented to the conscious part as the color we perceive.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (09/10/13 12:10 AM)
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Sophistic Radiance
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18821509 - 09/10/13 12:19 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: Have you considered that we have common perceptions and cognition because we generally have the same physiology? Our brains are discrete but they all came from the same blueprint.
And what are those common experiences? I'm not satisfied until I hear an explanation for how all of my experiences and those of others are actually generated by controlled electrical discharges. I acknowledge the possibility (or likelihood) that I don't have the knowledge necessary to understand or even recognize such an explanation. But until I get that explanation in some form, I really don't see how either model of consciousness reflects truth. They are each useful in its own domain and there doesn't seem to be any way of disproving one on the basis of the other.
Quote:
I'm not talking about changing the color palette. I'm talking about ripping the knobs and antenna off.
By that logic, ripping the knobs and antenna off a TV actually destroys the signals it would be capable of receiving if functional.
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koods
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Yeah, I guess I stumbled into that one. It's a closed circuit TV.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Sophistic Radiance
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18821526 - 09/10/13 12:27 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ooh, classic... do the images still exist if there is no TV upon which they can be displayed?
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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koods
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18821535 - 09/10/13 12:30 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Direct electrical stimulation of neurons can elicit memories, emotions, physical sensations, words, symbols, etc., strong magnetic fields of specific frequencies can induce what is deserved as "the presence of god"
You should read some Oliver Sacks. He has a couple books describing cases of strange effects being caused by different neurological issues.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (09/10/13 12:32 AM)
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Sophistic Radiance
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18821567 - 09/10/13 12:41 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Though I have experienced "the presence of god" thanks to DMT, that's not part of the basis of my reasoning. That said, I'll admit the experience could probably provide motivation for my reasoning in a way that paranoid psychosis from amphetamines couldn't.
I haven't read Oliver Sacks, but I do listen to a lot of NPR so I'm vaguely familiar with the God Helmet. I can only imagine it looks something like this:

EDIT: Hey, the Sacks fellow has got an episode of Nova about him. Might be a good starting point.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
Edited by Sophistic Radiance (09/10/13 12:56 AM)
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Schmendrick
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Quote:
atheism is small minded.
FALSE.
I am an atheist and I have a very large head. My wife bought a hat for me for our anniversary and we had to special order it online because no local Haberdasher carries sizes that large.
I suppose the argument could still be made that my head, though large, contains a physically small brain, but that seems unlikely... I cannot conclusively discount the idea though, because I have never had a CT scan of my head to confirm the mass of the brain therein.
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Schmendrick]
#18821862 - 09/10/13 02:45 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Schmendrick said: I suppose the argument could still be made that my head, though large, contains a physically small brain, but that seems unlikely... I cannot conclusively discount the idea though, because I have never had a CT scan of my head to confirm the mass of the brain therein.
Then you've got nothing, NOTHING! 
Come back when you've replaced 99% of your cranium with the light-conductive polymer necessary for an ultrahigh-resolution camera to make accurate and true statements about your neurophysiology.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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koods
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Or wait until he dies and make slices.
The summer after my first year in college, I had an internship at NIH (NIMH specifically). In the hallway outside the lab was the refrigerator where they kept the brains. I had two duties that summer: make and run western blots and decapitate live rats with a manually operated guillotine and extract their brains, kidneys and livers.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (09/10/13 03:16 AM)
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Sophistic Radiance
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18821929 - 09/10/13 03:15 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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But then we'll miss the precious split-second discharge of high-falutin kilo s that would prove the existence of the soul and make such measurements necessary in the first place.
Clearly, we must vivisect.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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Fire is Born
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18821931 - 09/10/13 03:17 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Fire is Born said: When I die I'm coming back as a fucking eagle. Its what i want to believe. If you think I'm wrong then you're small minded
And you're so open minded your brain has fallen out.
Sarcasm detector failed
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Fire is Born
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18821935 - 09/10/13 03:19 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: Or wait until he dies and make slices.
The summer after my first year in college, I had an internship at NIH (NIMH specifically). In the hallway outside the lab was the refrigerator where they kept the brains. I had two duties that summer: make and run western blots and decapitate live rats with a manually operated guillotine and extract their brains, kidneys and livers.
You sound like a hero
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Sarcasm2=butthurt
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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koods
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Quote:
BlindSophist said: Clearly, we must vivisect. 
My internship experience may come in handy
Quote:
Fire is Born said:
Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Fire is Born said: When I die I'm coming back as a fucking eagle. Its what i want to believe. If you think I'm wrong then you're small minded
And you're so open minded your brain has fallen out.
Sarcasm detector failed
You should have it checked twice a year, and replace the batteries.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18821939 - 09/10/13 03:21 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: The summer after my first year in college, I had an internship at NIH (NIMH specifically). In the hallway outside the lab was the refrigerator where they kept the brains. I had two duties that summer: make and run western blots and decapitate live rats with a manually operated guillotine and extract their brains, kidneys and livers.
Western blots sound fun...
...western blots sound fun.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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koods
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Quote:
Fire is Born said:
Quote:
koods said: Or wait until he dies and make slices.
The summer after my first year in college, I had an internship at NIH (NIMH specifically). In the hallway outside the lab was the refrigerator where they kept the brains. I had two duties that summer: make and run western blots and decapitate live rats with a manually operated guillotine and extract their brains, kidneyws and livers.
You sound like a hero
No glory in basic research.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Fire is Born
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Butthurt? I was being facetious. ...I'm an atheist
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Sophistic Radiance
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I'm a me.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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koods
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Quote:
BlindSophist said:
Quote:
koods said: The summer after my first year in college, I had an internship at NIH (NIMH specifically). In the hallway outside the lab was the refrigerator where they kept the brains. I had two duties that summer: make and run western blots and decapitate live rats with a manually operated guillotine and extract their brains, kidneys and livers.
Western blots sound fun...
...western blots sound fun. 
They were not. We had some problem with the actual chemicals used to make them, and they kept failing overnight. It was the guy who ran the labs fault, He made the stock solution wrong, but we didn't figure that out for weeks and me and the other intern took most of the blame in the interim. The guy was one of the worlds top hematologists and I can't remember his fucking name, all I remember was that he was a complete asshole.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (09/10/13 03:32 AM)
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koods
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18821956 - 09/10/13 03:28 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm alert.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Fire is Born
wanderer



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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18821983 - 09/10/13 03:42 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm Johnnys festering liver
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koods
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IQuote:
Fire is Born said: I'm Johnnys festering liver
I'll cook some fava beans and open up a nice Chianti.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (09/10/13 03:51 AM)
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Fire is Born
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18822020 - 09/10/13 04:26 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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You don't want it. I'm vegan.....so naturally im wasting away due to lack of protein and iron. No calcium so my bones are brittle.
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koods
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Quote:
Fire is Born said: You don't want it. I'm vegan.....
Cool. I've never talked to an alien before.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Fire is Born
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18822056 - 09/10/13 04:58 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Vegon spangler
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Blend
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This may be the first thread I've ever skimmed. I generally will read threads and not post in them. The few things I have read here though have been hilarious.
So having little knowledge at this moment where exactly this conversation is...
A reason I identify as an agnostic and not an atheist, even while taking the passive approach, and also know that I'm on the downslope of a very interesting night with mxe, is this... Wtf do you know? Wtf do any of us know? Do you really take yourself so seriously as to deny Anything At All? Maybe we are the second evolution of humans. Maybe we figured out space exploration a billion years ago, left behind the seeds of survival and our mother race is observing from afar. Maybe the big bang was the result of the one and only question an omnipotent god could have - Can I destroy myself - and reality is just the answer to that question, the debris culminating into a giant resounding No. Why would anyone take the anti stance and actually believe themselves to be open minded? I'm not saying I believe in any particular delusion, but I love to entertain the big question. And I'm not so sure of myself or anyone else to believe in any definitelys or definitely nots
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Beanhead
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Blend]
#18822196 - 09/10/13 06:46 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Further approval =/ anti-stance.
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Fire is Born
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Blend]
#18822253 - 09/10/13 07:14 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Atheists don't "believe" in things because it's nice. Quote:
deadendeavor said: This may be the first thread I've ever skimmed. I generally will read threads and not post in them. The few things I have read here though have been hilarious.
So having little knowledge at this moment where exactly this conversation is...
A reason I identify as an agnostic and not an atheist, even while taking the passive approach, and also know that I'm on the downslope of a very interesting night with mxe, is this... Wtf do you know? Wtf do any of us know? Do you really take yourself so seriously as to deny Anything At All? Maybe we are the second evolution of humans. Maybe we figured out space exploration a billion years ago, left behind the seeds of survival and our mother race is observing from afar. Maybe the big bang was the result of the one and only question an omnipotent god could have - Can I destroy myself - and reality is just the answer to that question, the debris culminating into a giant resounding No. Why would anyone take the anti stance and actually believe themselves to be open minded? I'm not saying I believe in any particular delusion, but I love to entertain the big question. And I'm not so sure of myself or anyone else to believe in any definitelys or definitely nots
Not believing something because there is no evidence or even logic behind it is fine. Atheists don't deny a y possibility beyond that of scientific evidence. ..they just don't go about "believing in any old bollocks because it sounds good" I think, like many people, you misunderstand Atheism means no theism
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TwinEclipse
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Would you believe that the future holds the REAL truth for many of our current beliefs?
I do. The future obtains limitless opportunity.
Every developing human being seeks truth, but the mind chooses to believe.
-------------------- My purpose: to love, to share, and to experience....all while conforming to my psychedelic experiences.
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Fire is Born
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: TwinEclipse]
#18822308 - 09/10/13 07:43 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
TwinEclipse said: Would you believe that the future holds the REAL truth for many of our current beliefs?
I do. The future obtains limitless opportunity.
Every developing human being seeks truth, but the mind chooses to believe.
Aren't you just pointing out the blatantly obvious?
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Blend
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Quote:
Fire is Born said: Atheists don't "believe" in things because it's nice. Quote:
deadendeavor said: This may be the first thread I've ever skimmed. I generally will read threads and not post in them. The few things I have read here though have been hilarious.
So having little knowledge at this moment where exactly this conversation is...
A reason I identify as an agnostic and not an atheist, even while taking the passive approach, and also know that I'm on the downslope of a very interesting night with mxe, is this... Wtf do you know? Wtf do any of us know? Do you really take yourself so seriously as to deny Anything At All? Maybe we are the second evolution of humans. Maybe we figured out space exploration a billion years ago, left behind the seeds of survival and our mother race is observing from afar. Maybe the big bang was the result of the one and only question an omnipotent god could have - Can I destroy myself - and reality is just the answer to that question, the debris culminating into a giant resounding No. Why would anyone take the anti stance and actually believe themselves to be open minded? I'm not saying I believe in any particular delusion, but I love to entertain the big question. And I'm not so sure of myself or anyone else to believe in any definitelys or definitely nots
Not believing something because there is no evidence or even logic behind it is fine. Atheists don't deny a y possibility beyond that of scientific evidence. ..they just don't go about "believing in any old bollocks because it sounds good" I think, like many people, you misunderstand Atheism means no theism
Check the first couple pages of this thread. You say I misunderstand atheism, along with many people. What makes you think those many people are wrong? Again, go back to the beginning. Many sources define atheism as a positive denial of deities. Show me a source that definitely states that this is incorrect.
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Blend]
#18822411 - 09/10/13 08:24 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Discussions involving atheism always seem to have this problem with what the correct definition of the term is.

copied from wikipedia; A diagram showing the relationship between the definitions of weak/strong and implicit/explicit atheism.

Explicit positive/strong/hard atheists (in purple on the right) assert that "at least one deity exists" is a false statement. Explicit negative/weak/soft atheists (in blue on the right) reject or eschew belief that any deities exist without actually asserting that "at least one deity exists" is a false statement. Implicit negative/weak/soft atheists (in blue on the left) would include people (also some agnostics) who do not believe in a deity, but have not explicitly rejected such belief.
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koods
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Quote:
Check the first couple pages of this thread. You say I misunderstand atheism, along with many people. What makes you think those many people are wrong? Again, go back to the beginning. Many sources define atheism as a positive denial of deities. Show me a source that definitely states that this is incorrect.
Fuck the dictionary. Atheists do not say god does not exist. WE HAVE NO POSITION ON GODS. We dont want to talk about god because the existence of god is baseless claim. We would like to not give a shit about other people's magical made up entities, but they force us to talk about them. Atheist is a thing only because there are powerful adults in the world that have imaginary friends.
Do you understand that the idea of god is a fabrication of the human mind.? He is imaginary. Atheists deny that the made up god of the bible exists, but there may be REAL god somewhere.
One more attempt to get the point across
Until God leaves evidence to the contrary, he is a FICTIONAL character.
Edited by koods (09/10/13 09:01 AM)
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TwinEclipse
Psychedelic Alchemist


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Quote:
Fire is Born said:
Quote:
TwinEclipse said: Would you believe that the future holds the REAL truth for many of our current beliefs?
I do. The future obtains limitless opportunity.
Every developing human being seeks truth, but the mind chooses to believe.
Aren't you just pointing out the blatantly obvious?
Well, if truth were so obvious, why wouldn't the great minds of shroomery agree on concepts of higher order in this universe? So many contrasting views on this thread.
I said that to demonstrate that the present will never hold all the answers; not during the birth of nihilism and probably not in the near future.
What I take from that is...have fun with life and enjoy the ride, cuz that's all you got and respect OTHER's beliefs, cuz that's all THEY got.
-------------------- My purpose: to love, to share, and to experience....all while conforming to my psychedelic experiences.
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UnholyChild666
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: TwinEclipse] 1
#18822470 - 09/10/13 08:53 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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any of you rich kids wanna see if I can get tis thread shutdown without getting myself banned?
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"I am the Highest Power the leader of the pack" Actiavte My Dream Sequence Machine GOD of the hologram earth
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18822474 - 09/10/13 08:54 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Check the first couple pages of this thread. You say I misunderstand atheism, along with many people. What makes you think those many people are wrong? Again, go back to the beginning. Many sources define atheism as a positive denial of deities. Show me a source that definitely states that this is incorrect.
Fuck the dictionary. Atheists do not say god does not exist. WE HAVE NO POSITION ON GODS. We dont want to talk about god because the existence of god is baseless claim. We would like to not give a shit about other people's magical made up entities, but they force us to talk about them. Atheist is a thing only because there are powerful adults in the world that have imaginary friends.
atheism has no centralized dogma--there is no unified 'we' that you can claim represents all atheists--some lack belief in a deity, others hold the belief that no deity exists--both fit under the umbrella of atheist
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shivas.wisdom
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Quote:
UnholyChild666 said: any of you rich kids wanna see if I can get tis thread shutdown without getting myself banned?
i'm a poor adult can i still vote?
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UnholyChild666
I'M GOD

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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:
UnholyChild666 said: any of you rich kids wanna see if I can get tis thread shutdown without getting myself banned?
i'm a poor adult can i still vote?
not if your a women or black.
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"I am the Highest Power the leader of the pack" Actiavte My Dream Sequence Machine GOD of the hologram earth
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koods
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Whatever.
An atheist who says god does not exist is making unsupportable claims. He doesn't understand what atheism is.
I've never heard a so called militant atheist say such things - I think people just assume because they don't understand what atheism is.
Edited by koods (09/10/13 09:08 AM)
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18822531 - 09/10/13 09:11 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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maybe to you atheism is about only making the most logical conclusions based on the currently available evidence, but perhaps to another atheist it is solely about denying the existence of a god that they consider forced on them
atheism has no centralized dogma, beyond perhaps the simplest expression of 'lacking belief in a deity'--beyond that it is anyones game--who are you to try and force your personal dogmas onto atheism as a whole?
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qman
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18822534 - 09/10/13 09:12 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Check the first couple pages of this thread. You say I misunderstand atheism, along with many people. What makes you think those many people are wrong? Again, go back to the beginning. Many sources define atheism as a positive denial of deities. Show me a source that definitely states that this is incorrect.
Fuck the dictionary. Atheists do not say god does not exist. WE HAVE NO POSITION ON GODS. We dont want to talk about god because the existence of god is baseless claim. We would like to not give a shit about other people's magical made up entities, but they force us to talk about them. Atheist is a thing only because there are powerful adults in the world that have imaginary friends.
Do you understand that the idea of god is a fabrication of the human mind.? He is imaginary. Atheists deny that the made up god of the bible exists, but there may be REAL god somewhere.
One more attempt to get the point across
Until God leaves evidence to the contrary, he is a FICTIONAL character.

Koods, you have done a good job in this thread, keep it up!
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18822541 - 09/10/13 09:16 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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militant != hard
for example, dawkins does not consider himself to be a hard atheist (ie, he does not make the claim to know there is no god) yet few, including himself, would deny he is a militant atheist
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koods
Ribbit



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A hard atheist is just a horny non-believer.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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RiderOnTheStorm
Reject thug culture


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Way to bring another subjective definition into the thread. 
So what's a militant atheist, someone who shares and defends his position of disbelief with others? Does the atheist have to start the conversation to be militant? Does he have to be politically involved with modern atheism? Why is he labeled militant when atheists are the only group of people not starting wars over their beliefs (or lack thereof)?
People act like there are atheists going around disrupting church services on the reg, holding Bible burnings and shit, attacking innocent bystanders for wearing Jesus shirts. Dawkins does most of his speaking at universities, where religious people show up and attack his ideas. Even when he interviews stubborn, deluded creationists he mostly stays polite and composed, so what makes him militant?
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Nova

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Lets break things down a bit.
Theism = believing Gnosticism = knowing
All people are either theist/atheist AND ALSO either gnostic/agnostic (they arent mutually exclusive). I think everybody in this thread would fall under the agnostic side for that part of the equation.
Now what is left is whether you are theist or atheist (your beliefs). Another way of thinking about this is your opinion. People here are (for the most part) all agnostic so no one claims to KNOW if there is a god. So we can then describe our OPINION on the matter.
This leaves two categories: atheist agnostic - don't know but opinion on the matter is there is no god (aka not knowing, non believer). Theist agnostic - dont know but opinion on the matter is a higher order/god exists (aka not knowing, believer).
(For gnostics there would be atheist gnostic (nihilists) or theist gnostic (religious)).
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Blend
afferent orchestra


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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18823395 - 09/10/13 01:11 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Check the first couple pages of this thread. You say I misunderstand atheism, along with many people. What makes you think those many people are wrong? Again, go back to the beginning. Many sources define atheism as a positive denial of deities. Show me a source that definitely states that this is incorrect.
Fuck the dictionary. Atheists do not say god does not exist. WE HAVE NO POSITION ON GODS. We dont want to talk about god because the existence of god is baseless claim. We would like to not give a shit about other people's magical made up entities, but they force us to talk about them. Atheist is a thing only because there are powerful adults in the world that have imaginary friends.
Do you understand that the idea of god is a fabrication of the human mind.? He is imaginary. Atheists deny that the made up god of the bible exists, but there may be REAL god somewhere.
One more attempt to get the point across
Until God leaves evidence to the contrary, he is a FICTIONAL character.
What a convoluted, self-contradicting mess of a post. No offense.
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Nova]
#18823417 - 09/10/13 01:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
What a convoluted, self-contradicting mess of a post. No offense.
You're wrong. Why would I be offended?
I don't believe the theists
Simple as that.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Blend
afferent orchestra


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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18823446 - 09/10/13 01:24 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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But that stance is absolutely baffling. Gods are an imaginary thing, yet you aren't denying the existence of such a concept? You seem reasonably intelligent, but I have no idea what to make of that. To me, not a believer by the way, you're dipping a cup in the ocean, taking a look, and saying there are no such thing as fish.
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Blend]
#18823503 - 09/10/13 01:39 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm not denying the concept of an imaginary god. I could imagine one, and it would exist. Theist have an imaginary god they claim is a real god. I dismiss this claim for lack of evidence.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Blend
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods]
#18823554 - 09/10/13 01:53 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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That's a very clever way of being right no matter what the truth happens to be while taking no responsibility and making no commitments. I kinda admire it to be honest. The only reason you'd have to worry is if the theists turn out to be right. Its no wonder you hold them in such low regard. But as militant an atheist you may be, the theistic route is wrought with the very same reasoning of 'better safe than sorry.'
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RiderOnTheStorm
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Blend]
#18823629 - 09/10/13 02:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deadendeavor said: That's a very clever way of being right no matter what the truth happens to be while taking no responsibility and making no commitments. I kinda admire it to be honest. The only reason you'd have to worry is if the theists turn out to be right. Its no wonder you hold them in such low regard. But as militant an atheist you may be, the theistic route is wrought with the very same reasoning of 'better safe than sorry.' 
You seem to either be intentionally twisting his logic or you've got your own all bungled up.
Koods, Joie, myself and the other atheists in this thread are saying that most atheists do not believe that there is a 0% chance of god existing. Most take the stance that because no compelling evidence of any kind has ever been presented, there is no reason to believe in the existence of any of the gods in modern or ancient religions.
You know there are cross-cultural concepts and stories of mermaids, but also that there's never been any evidence they exist (despite what the "History" channel might farce up). Are you agnostic about mermaids? Theoretically, though quite improbably, they could exist in some small pocket of the ocean that we've yet to explore.
Koods and I would agree that mermaids don't exist. If a mermaid appeared on south beach and marine biologists presented evidence that determined it was a genuine organic creature, we would then change our stances. If a carcass got fished up by a boat, we might even reevaluate our doubts on their existence. There's no reason to presently be agnostic about mermaids though, nor is there any reason to be about god.
Agnosticism is not the base level stance like agnostics want to make it sound, you're not agnostic about the Flying Spaghetti Monster or sharknados or mermaids, yet all of those have more evidence supporting the possibility of their existence than god does. And you accuse atheism of dodging responsibility and commitment!
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Gilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

Registered: 03/01/12
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Blend]
#18823635 - 09/10/13 02:19 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deadendeavor said: That's a very clever way of being right no matter what the truth happens to be while taking no responsibility and making no commitments. I kinda admire it to be honest. The only reason you'd have to worry is if the theists turn out to be right. Its no wonder you hold them in such low regard. But as militant an atheist you may be, the theistic route is wrought with the very same reasoning of 'better safe than sorry.' 
Actually the burden of proof is on the theist making the god claim as you are doing. So if you can prove your god claim with scientific evidence then I will take the claim seriously.
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Gilgamesh18]
#18823699 - 09/10/13 02:43 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gilgamesh18 said: Actually the burden of proof is on the theist making the god claim as you are doing. So if you can prove your god claim with scientific evidence then I will take the claim seriously.
ARGUMENT FROM GUITAR MASTERY (1) Eric Clapton is God. (2) Therefore, God exists.
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Nova]
#18823751 - 09/10/13 02:56 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nova said: Lets break things down a bit.
Theism = believing Gnosticism = knowing
All people are either theist/atheist AND ALSO either gnostic/agnostic (they arent mutually exclusive). I think everybody in this thread would fall under the agnostic side for that part of the equation.
Now what is left is whether you are theist or atheist (your beliefs). Another way of thinking about this is your opinion. People here are (for the most part) all agnostic so no one claims to KNOW if there is a god. So we can then describe our OPINION on the matter.
This leaves two categories: atheist agnostic - don't know but opinion on the matter is there is no god (aka not knowing, non believer). Theist agnostic - dont know but opinion on the matter is a higher order/god exists (aka not knowing, believer).
(For gnostics there would be atheist gnostic (nihilists) or theist gnostic (religious)).
You better watch it buddy, I'm an areligious gnostic theist.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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Fire is Born
wanderer



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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: TwinEclipse]
#18823764 - 09/10/13 02:59 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
TwinEclipse said:
Quote:
Fire is Born said:
Quote:
TwinEclipse said: Would you believe that the future holds the REAL truth for many of our current beliefs?
I do. The future obtains limitless opportunity.
Every developing human being seeks truth, but the mind chooses to believe.
Aren't you just pointing out the blatantly obvious?
Well, if truth were so obvious, why wouldn't the great minds of shroomery agree on concepts of higher order in this universe? So many contrasting views on this thread.
I said that to demonstrate that the present will never hold all the answers; not during the birth of nihilism and probably not in the near future.
What I take from that is...have fun with life and enjoy the ride, cuz that's all you got and respect OTHER's beliefs, cuz that's all THEY got.
So as time goes on we learn more 
Edited by Fire is Born (09/10/13 03:08 PM)
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Gilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 11,671
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:
Gilgamesh18 said: Actually the burden of proof is on the theist making the god claim as you are doing. So if you can prove your god claim with scientific evidence then I will take the claim seriously.
ARGUMENT FROM GUITAR MASTERY (1) Eric Clapton is God. (2) Therefore, God exists.
If you can link me to some peer reviewed studies on Eric Claptons God status I will build a shrine in his honor and hold services every week praising him to the high heavens!
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Gilgamesh18]
#18824043 - 09/10/13 04:02 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Does Rolling Stone count?
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Gilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

Registered: 03/01/12
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No but good try
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Gilgamesh18]
#18824339 - 09/10/13 05:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gilgamesh18 said:
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:
Gilgamesh18 said: Actually the burden of proof is on the theist making the god claim as you are doing. So if you can prove your god claim with scientific evidence then I will take the claim seriously.
ARGUMENT FROM GUITAR MASTERY (1) Eric Clapton is God. (2) Therefore, God exists.
If you can link me to some peer reviewed studies on Eric Claptons God status I will build a shrine in his honor and hold services every week praising him to the high heavens!
We do know god is rather negligent when it comes to taking care of his children, so... Yes. Eric Clapton could be god. If Clapton called his Manhattan highrise apartment "Grace," I think that would be confirmation.
Too soon?
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (09/10/13 05:25 PM)
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The Ecstatic
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods] 2
#18824396 - 09/10/13 05:29 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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JESUS CHRIST!
atheism is a lack, LACK, of belief, dogma, philosophy or anything else.
And Gnosticism, and agnosticism, are total bullshit. Any other topic ever debated, there have been propenents and detractors. There's no fence, or belief supported by unsubstantiated claims.
Imagine an entire subset of people claiming to "know" that bigfoot exists. And another saying they dont know one way or another. For tue record there is absolute zero evidence for such, along with facts from all facets of science supporting that lack of existence.
Then imagine some soft-minded blowhard claim people who know for a fact there isnt a bigfoot have some agenda behind that. Despite it being the only logical conclusion, imagine all these idiots trying to dance around the issur instead of just fucking admitting that there is absolutely no reason to believe, or know, there is a bigfoot.
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BittrBuffalo
Deaconica

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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: maybe to you atheism is about only making the most logical conclusions based on the currently available evidence, but perhaps to another atheist it is solely about denying the existence of a god that they consider forced on them
atheism has no centralized dogma, beyond perhaps the simplest expression of 'lacking belief in a deity'--beyond that it is anyones game--who are you to try and force your personal dogmas onto atheism as a whole?
I like you.
Anyway....
Proselytization is annoying, no matter what your dogma. What irritates people about "militant" atheists and bible-beaters alike is the inherent belief that the adherent has it all figured out and everyone else is an idiot for not understanding that--the folks that are certain that they possess The Truth, and if only you adopt their beliefs, you will also be one of the Enlightened. One might ask why anyone would be so stupid to believe something that isn't proven to exist, but something has to be said for Inspiration, which is ultimately the source of all proven and non-proven things--the Creator-God of Science.
-------------------- Disclaimer: This post is a work of fiction, provided for entertainment purposes only. Any resemblance to actual persons or events, past or present, is strictly coincidental. All celebrity voices are impersonated. If you begin your ID request with, "I just ate a bunch of these mushrooms…should I not have done that?" I'm just gonna sit back and watch Darwin at work.
Edited by BittrBuffalo (09/10/13 07:10 PM)
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pmoseman
Illogical Ninja


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Quote:
BittrBuffalo said: The major problem with the God(s) vs. No God(s) argument is that...
Try reading all of it. What is the point of writing if we do not even bother reading all of it, before adding more and more stuff to read.
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pmoseman
Illogical Ninja


Registered: 08/29/13
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Blend]
#18824643 - 09/10/13 06:28 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deadendeavor said: Do you really take yourself so seriously as to deny Anything At All?
Yes. I have given my reasons.
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pmoseman
Illogical Ninja


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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Nova]
#18824746 - 09/10/13 06:52 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nova said: Lets break things down a bit.
Theism = believing Gnosticism = knowing
All people are either theist/atheist AND ALSO either gnostic/agnostic (they arent mutually exclusive).
"They are mutually exclusive. Agnosticism simply states whether God exists or not cannot be proven. This is a belief. You either know God exists, and knowing about God, you know that He cannot be proven. OR You you know God does not exist, and knowing this, you know He cannot be proven. Either way you would KNOW and by definition and that requires proof. YOU CANNOT KNOW ABOUT SOMETHING THAT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO KNOW ABOUT UNLESS YOU KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT IT. So agnosticism, is a belief.
You either adopt atheism or you believe in something." So you cannot be both an agnostic and an atheist.
Edited by pmoseman (09/10/13 07:14 PM)
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pmoseman
Illogical Ninja


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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Blend]
#18824773 - 09/10/13 06:58 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deadendeavor said: That's a very clever way of being right no matter what the truth happens to be while taking no responsibility and making no commitments. I kinda admire it to be honest. The only reason you'd have to worry is if the theists turn out to be right. Its no wonder you hold them in such low regard. But as militant an atheist you may be, the theistic route is wrought with the very same reasoning of 'better safe than sorry.' 
"For example, if God is real, but simply cannot be proven, or He can be proven, and is real, then atheism... remains valid. You may think, aha, those atheists have finally been proven wrong, but the FACT that God exists is not a BELIEF and therefore atheism remains unchanged." Other than that I think you've got it right.
Edited by pmoseman (09/10/13 07:00 PM)
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BittrBuffalo
Deaconica

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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: pmoseman]
#18824804 - 09/10/13 07:05 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
pmoseman said:
Quote:
BittrBuffalo said: The major problem with the God(s) vs. No God(s) argument is that...
Try reading all of it. What is the point of writing if we do not even bother reading all of it, before adding more and more stuff to read.
That statement was independent of anything specific that anyone has said and wasn't intended to refute anything, but was an observation of what happens in conversations on this particular topic. Since this is the Internet, and we're a bunch of strangers bickering over abstractions that can't possibly be settled, I suspect that the conversation will end predictably. But I have been surprised thus far in that we engaged in hair-splitting over definitions and managed to climb out of that ditch before indulging in the dissecting grammar or spelling as a straw-man. I also expected serious trolling or flaming by this point, possibly accusations of espousing Nazism. So well done, kids. 
Continue.
-------------------- Disclaimer: This post is a work of fiction, provided for entertainment purposes only. Any resemblance to actual persons or events, past or present, is strictly coincidental. All celebrity voices are impersonated. If you begin your ID request with, "I just ate a bunch of these mushrooms…should I not have done that?" I'm just gonna sit back and watch Darwin at work.
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pmoseman
Illogical Ninja


Registered: 08/29/13
Posts: 61
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Quote:
Fire is Born said:
Quote:
TwinEclipse said:
Quote:
Fire is Born said:
Quote:
TwinEclipse said: Would you believe that the future holds the REAL truth for many of our current beliefs?
I do. The future obtains limitless opportunity.
Every developing human being seeks truth, but the mind chooses to believe.
Aren't you just pointing out the blatantly obvious?
Well, if truth were so obvious, why wouldn't the great minds of shroomery agree on concepts of higher order in this universe? So many contrasting views on this thread.
I said that to demonstrate that the present will never hold all the answers; not during the birth of nihilism and probably not in the near future.
What I take from that is...have fun with life and enjoy the ride, cuz that's all you got and respect OTHER's beliefs, cuz that's all THEY got.
So as time goes on we learn more 
Not necessarily. Remember the dark ages? Didn't think so. How about those flying cars, it is 2015 after-all. 2 more years?!! My argument is moot. We are obviously dealing with a time lord.
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pmoseman
Illogical Ninja


Registered: 08/29/13
Posts: 61
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Quote:
BittrBuffalo said:
Quote:
pmoseman said:
Quote:
BittrBuffalo said: The major problem with the God(s) vs. No God(s) argument is that...
Try reading all of it. What is the point of writing if we do not even bother reading all of it, before adding more and more stuff to read.
That statement was independent of anything specific that anyone has said and wasn't intended to refute anything, but was an observation of what happens in conversations on this particular topic. Since this is the Internet, and we're a bunch of strangers bickering over abstractions that can't possibly be settled, I suspect that the conversation will end predictably. But I have been surprised thus far in that we engaged in hair-splitting over definitions and managed to climb out of that ditch before indulging in the dissecting grammar or spelling as a straw-man. I also expected serious trolling or flaming by this point, possibly accusations of espousing Nazism. So well done, kids. 
Continue. 
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Blend
afferent orchestra


Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 2,949
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Quote:
RiderOnTheStorm said:
Quote:
deadendeavor said: That's a very clever way of being right no matter what the truth happens to be while taking no responsibility and making no commitments. I kinda admire it to be honest. The only reason you'd have to worry is if the theists turn out to be right. Its no wonder you hold them in such low regard. But as militant an atheist you may be, the theistic route is wrought with the very same reasoning of 'better safe than sorry.' 
You seem to either be intentionally twisting his logic or you've got your own all bungled up.
Koods, Joie, myself and the other atheists in this thread are saying that most atheists do not believe that there is a 0% chance of god existing. Most take the stance that because no compelling evidence of any kind has ever been presented, there is no reason to believe in the existence of any of the gods in modern or ancient religions.
You know there are cross-cultural concepts and stories of mermaids, but also that there's never been any evidence they exist (despite what the "History" channel might farce up). Are you agnostic about mermaids? Theoretically, though quite improbably, they could exist in some small pocket of the ocean that we've yet to explore.
Koods and I would agree that mermaids don't exist. If a mermaid appeared on south beach and marine biologists presented evidence that determined it was a genuine organic creature, we would then change our stances. If a carcass got fished up by a boat, we might even reevaluate our doubts on their existence. There's no reason to presently be agnostic about mermaids though, nor is there any reason to be about god.
Agnosticism is not the base level stance like agnostics want to make it sound, you're not agnostic about the Flying Spaghetti Monster or sharknados or mermaids, yet all of those have more evidence supporting the possibility of their existence than god does. And you accuse atheism of dodging responsibility and commitment!
It only seems that I'm passing judgment. You may be right about twisting logic. My mind has indeed been twisting lately. And my stance is no "better" or "worse" than anyone's as I see it. I like the agnostic approach of simply admitting that I Don't Know. I am more skeptical than some of you seem to catch onto. Even if there Were some evidence pointing toward any "Truth" I would hesitate to believe it to be legit. Science is never complete, remember. I'm not knocking science, that would be inane. Only pointing out that anything we may think we know with certainty seems historically to be a never learned lesson in futility. You say you and others don't believe mermaids exist, for instance. Why rule it out like that? I mean I know you'll come back and play the "until further evidence " card, but there seems to be two contradicting forces at work here. That's what I'm finding interesting. Where I would say "maybe", and perhaps even think up ways of finding out, you seem to say "lol, I doubt it", and perhaps even think up ways of debunking such claims.
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Blend
afferent orchestra


Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 2,949
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Blend]
#18826092 - 09/11/13 12:51 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Again, I'm not saying either side is superior, I just prefer one approach over another. Really I'm just trying to better understand the stance.
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pmoseman
Illogical Ninja


Registered: 08/29/13
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Blend]
#18826112 - 09/11/13 12:59 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deadendeavor said: ... That's what I'm finding interesting. Where I would say "maybe", and perhaps even think up ways of finding out, you seem to say "lol, I doubt it", and perhaps even think up ways of debunking such claims.
These would both lead us toward the truth.
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Blend
afferent orchestra


Registered: 08/16/06
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: pmoseman]
#18826134 - 09/11/13 01:03 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Correct! I definitely agree.
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