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etdxx

Registered: 07/25/13
Posts: 48
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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Making LC with Lids, NO BANDS
#18807774 - 09/06/13 03:03 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Super n00b questions of the month:
I have half a dozen wide mouth jar lids, no extra bands. Any thoughts on making 2 jars of LC without using the bands to hold down the lids? How would you recommend I hold the lids in place during the PC stage?
I could always buy new bands, but hey, that would lower my return on investment. You have to be financially conscious... 
Thanks for the reply(ies)!
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bulkgrownoob
Registered: 03/21/11
Posts: 345
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Re: Making LC with Lids, NO BANDS [Re: etdxx]
#18807801 - 09/06/13 03:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Sometimes being financially conscious means spending a few extra bucks to do things the right way instead of cutting corners and failing as a result. Although I'm sure there's a way, i would recommend buying the bands
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Juiceh
Dabbing All Day



Registered: 09/25/12
Posts: 3,208
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Re: Making LC with Lids, NO BANDS [Re: etdxx]
#18807939 - 09/06/13 04:00 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
etdxx said:You have to be financially conscious... 
You want to be financially conscious? Then buy some bands. The cost of the bands will be a lot less than the cost of a fuck ton of stuff inoculated with a LC that got contaminated because you decided to cut corners.
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Fred Teddy
Flying with Turkeys


Registered: 07/18/11
Posts: 208
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Re: Making LC with Lids, NO BANDS [Re: etdxx]
#18808554 - 09/06/13 06:06 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Bands aint a lot of money. But, to answer your question, in a pinch use aluminum foil. That will cost you more than the bands though.
Peace, FT
-------------------- ... its all about fun and games ... and no one has poked their eye out ... yet. Peace. Disclaimer: Fact is ... Its all fiction.
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Re: Making LC with Lids, NO BANDS [Re: Fred Teddy]
#18808995 - 09/06/13 07:35 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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don't make LC in the first place.
OMG! Did I just start something?
If you insist, then buy the rings. Don't start by taking shortcuts.
-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 17 days, 15 hours
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Re: Making LC with Lids, NO BANDS [Re: SpitballJedi]
#18809198 - 09/06/13 08:19 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
SpitballJedi said: don't make LC in the first place.
OMG! Did I just start something?
If you insist, then buy the rings. Don't start by taking shortcuts.
LCs are sketchy to begin with....
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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etdxx

Registered: 07/25/13
Posts: 48
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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Re: Making LC with Lids, NO BANDS [Re: PussyFart]
#18816053 - 09/08/13 05:33 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks for the replies, guys. I'll avoid cutting corners and use lids AND bands.
Why are LC's sketchy? Its simply mycelium growing in liquid vs substrate (ie grains). (a link will do)
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 17 days, 15 hours
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Re: Making LC with Lids, NO BANDS [Re: etdxx]
#18816110 - 09/08/13 05:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
etdxx said: Why are LC's sketchy? Its simply mycelium growing in liquid vs substrate (ie grains). (a link will do)
Because unless you are making the LC from a clean colonized agar wedge, you cannot really know for sure that it's clean or not until test jars are shot up andf grown out.
Spores are never 100% clean, and the LC is the perfect breeding ground for everything not fungi related.
But once you have a clean agar wedge, it is kind of pointless to use it to make an LC, when you can just knock upo a grain jar with the wedge and G2G it out.
If we both started with the same isolate, I would have 100 quartys just about fully colonized by the time your LC was ready and tested.
You cannot transfer away from a contaminated LC, the entire thing must be thrown away.You can however with Agar.
LCs are just all around a risky waste of time IMO....
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
Edited by PussyFart (09/08/13 05:49 PM)
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Stromrider
This must be the place



Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 7,326
Loc: Dept of know what I'm say...
Last seen: 37 minutes, 7 seconds
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Re: Making LC with Lids, NO BANDS [Re: PussyFart]
#18816129 - 09/08/13 05:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Don't forget agar is fun as hell too! Sorry I keep saying that. I just started using agar about a month ago and I have been having a lot of fun with it.
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Re: Making LC with Lids, NO BANDS [Re: PussyFart]
#18816159 - 09/08/13 06:01 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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Helltick
Player


Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 684
Loc: Deep...
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Re: Making LC with Lids, NO BANDS [Re: PussyFart]
#18816163 - 09/08/13 06:03 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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LC's are like a thing of the past. Like 10yrs ago. Move on to Agar. GL.
-------------------- My Agar Tek. My Greenhouse Tek. "It's not good when it's done, it's done when it's good"
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etdxx

Registered: 07/25/13
Posts: 48
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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Re: Making LC with Lids, NO BANDS [Re: Helltick]
#18818903 - 09/09/13 01:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Great responses on both original Q as well as follow-up questions.
As of right now, I'm leaning towards making mycelium syringes (from sterilized water colonized jar mycelium). Down the road, tackling G2G is in order - Agar teks are a bit more advanced and, at this point, have very little knowledge on mycelium isolation to be able to use it to my advantage.
Let's wait until the 23 qt jars fully colonize and then we'll go from there... 23 of 24 as, for some reason, one jar was missed during spore inoculation, lol.
From there, the plan is to add spawn to hpoo/coir/verm/gypsum/coffee, listed in order of quantity.
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JohnnieYen
Okay



Registered: 03/15/11
Posts: 3,529
Loc: City Z
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Re: Making LC with Lids, NO BANDS [Re: etdxx]
#18819668 - 09/09/13 04:57 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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G2G is a helluva lot easier than grain LC. Safer too in my opinion.
I would leave the coffee out of your sub as well.

this is multispore orissa india. half qt spawn G2G into a 4qt spawn bag. Sub was coir/verm/gypsum
Keep it simple!
-------------------- [center
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etdxx

Registered: 07/25/13
Posts: 48
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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Re: Making LC with Lids, NO BANDS [Re: JohnnieYen]
#18822446 - 09/10/13 08:42 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Those are some bonafide monsters!!!
Let me toss a few q's in your direction to get a sense of your grow op:
-what was your intended grain to sub ratio and substrate depth? -in percent, how much of coir/verm/gypsum was your sub composed of?
This is my plan going fwd:
-Substrate of: hpoo 50% coir 20% verm 15% gyps 10% coffee 5%
-in monotubs, spawn to sub ratio of 1:2.95. in mini-monotubs, 1:4.2. -sub depth of 3".
Why do you suggest coffee is left out of the sub - is it to avoid dealing with its high probability of contamination? Based on my research (not experience), if hydrated and pasteurized properly, coffee should not see higher contam rates than hpoo...
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Nakor420
Fun Guy



Registered: 05/02/13
Posts: 1,616
Loc: The Spirit World
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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Re: Making LC with Lids, NO BANDS [Re: etdxx]
#18822484 - 09/10/13 08:57 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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If you are doing cubes...and based on your noob status I hope you are...then you don't need poo or coffee....just coir verm and gypsum...in fact the gypsum is optional too, but highly recommended. Use 2 quart jars full of verm per 1 brick coir, about a handful of gypsum and 5 quarts of hot tap water...boom, done...next step is proper pasteurization. If you are using an exotic species that requires poo, then go ahead and learn the teks, but for now if you are just starting out, I suggest going with cubes. They are very forgiving. Now as far as LC vs Agar and g2g....just get LC out of your mind. forget that it exists. Order one of these....

and some of this...

and get to work....
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etdxx

Registered: 07/25/13
Posts: 48
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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Re: Making LC with Lids, NO BANDS [Re: Nakor420]
#18822613 - 09/10/13 09:41 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nakor420 said: If you are doing cubes...and based on your noob status I hope you are...then you don't need poo or coffee....just coir verm and gypsum...in fact the gypsum is optional too, but highly recommended.
Of course just coir, verm and gypsum will do, but who wants to complete a project just using the bare minimum sub materials when more ingredients can be used? Coir provides partial nutrition - nothing wrong with adding more ingredients to ensure yields are optimal. Fact of the matter is, if I can get the pasteurizing process down, it really doesn't matter what proven sub materials I add.
The reason why I'm contemplating only using 5% spent coffee grounds is to get some of its benefits while minimizing probability of contams... Regarding gypsum, I already started using it (during grain soak) and will continue to use it as its readily available and incredibly cheap ($0.20/lb).
With one very successful pf tek under my belt, unless there's a ton of folks telling me the substrate previously mentioned should be avoided, I feel very confident proceeding with this plan... And yes, I've already started looking into agar & G2G - thanks for the suggestions...
Without disclosing what I'm cultivating, I'll safely say its not exotics.
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JohnnieYen
Okay



Registered: 03/15/11
Posts: 3,529
Loc: City Z
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Re: Making LC with Lids, NO BANDS [Re: etdxx]
#18822646 - 09/10/13 09:54 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I use a 60L tub with 10qt coir, 2 qt verm, handful of gypsum. 4-5 qt spawn. depth is 3.5-4"
I would HIGHLY suggest going the simple route on your first bulk, then experimenting with hpoo and coffee.
but, do what you want...
-------------------- [center
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Nakor420
Fun Guy



Registered: 05/02/13
Posts: 1,616
Loc: The Spirit World
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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Re: Making LC with Lids, NO BANDS [Re: etdxx]
#18822753 - 09/10/13 10:19 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
etdxx said:
Of course just coir, verm and gypsum will do, but who wants to complete a project just using the bare minimum sub materials when more ingredients can be used? Coir provides partial nutrition - nothing wrong with adding more ingredients to ensure yields are optimal. Fact of the matter is, if I can get the pasteurizing process down, it really doesn't matter what proven sub materials I add.
The reason why I'm contemplating only using 5% spent coffee grounds is to get some of its benefits while minimizing probability of contams... Regarding gypsum, I already started using it (during grain soak) and will continue to use it as its readily available and incredibly cheap ($0.20/lb).
With one very successful pf tek under my belt, unless there's a ton of folks telling me the substrate previously mentioned should be avoided, I feel very confident proceeding with this plan... And yes, I've already started looking into agar & G2G - thanks for the suggestions...
Without disclosing what I'm cultivating, I'll safely say its not exotics.
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Nakor420
Fun Guy



Registered: 05/02/13
Posts: 1,616
Loc: The Spirit World
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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Re: Making LC with Lids, NO BANDS [Re: Nakor420]
#18822785 - 09/10/13 10:26 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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You aren't really gaining much of anything by doing that...your results won't be any better if you do everything properly to begin with. All you are doing is adding extra time and work to your tek with the only real result being a better environment for contaminates with negligible improvement to your grow. I've been a chef for 15 years, Italian, and the same goes... just cause you can add more ingredients to a dish doesn't make it better. Throwing everything on the spice rack into a sauce is't creating anything other than waste. Recipes call for certain things because they produce a certain flavor..you wouldn't add hot sauce to a shrimp scampi just because you can....idk if you see the parallel I'm attempting to draw...but it's truth my friend. Bow to experience here. Save your money and time and sweat.... and possibly tears when you see all the contaminates,lol. Or do what you are going to do...I have a feeling you are going to do what you want anyway. Heck...call it an experiment.
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etdxx

Registered: 07/25/13
Posts: 48
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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Re: Making LC with Lids, NO BANDS [Re: Nakor420]
#18823457 - 09/10/13 01:26 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Per RR in the Coco Coir vs Horse Poo thread:
"A complex substrate will outperform any single component by itself. My point above is that coir is the equal of horse manure...based on many years of grows using both. Many city dwellers have posted coir grows that match anything I or anyone else have grown on manure."
With all this being said, I understand your analogy with regards to your cooking experience. You think like chef and I think like an investor in many aspects of my life...
I'll tell you what - sounds like proceeding with a more simple coir tek could yield just as fruitful grows as with manure, however, I still want to give coffee a try without putting all my eggs in one basket. It is always wise to have diversified investments and manage risk accordingly; assuming a grow with spent coffee grounds offers higher risk (of contam) and potential higher return (in yields), the tubs will split 50/50 to follow a more risk averse approach: ~12 qts of grains spawned on coir/verm/gyps ~12 qts of grains spawned on coir/verm/gyps/coffee.
Best case scenario, all tubs colonize and provide at least 2 full flushes. Probable scenario, coir/verm/gyps colonize well, C/V/G/coffee tubs get "trich'ed." Worst case scenario, all get trich.
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