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akira_akuma
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Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
#18801531 - 09/04/13 11:09 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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LOL, wrong on all fronts. he didn't have to pay them shit, according to what's fair use, he's just being professional, and he doesn't want to tarnish his name.
i wish i could show you how much you could get away with under fair use laws, but i'd have to have sanctioned a license for an sound installation playing chopped up and re-arranged Doors music, for you to get the point. if that.
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Yes, but in the legal world, you will need to define how long or of what percentage of a song is a "sample". That's the crux of the whole argument.
Sample: a isolated bit of music that gets used in a loop, sequence, or synthesizer. how long? any amount of length.
legal issues: determine whether the sample has the entire composition intact in the sample, or whether it is a piece of the composition, un-intact.
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It doesn't matter how you made the song or if you made it. I "sampled" 100% of the song and sold it and made a fortune before you could make everyone aware of it. No one will buy it from you because it's seen as being my creation. And you can't sue me because you made the law that said that any artist can sell any amount of another artists intellectual property and get away with it.
that's laughable too. so when i prove it's not yours, people are still gonna buy it? (no) but they'd be idiots, i don't want as my fanbase anyways.
you'd make the money, by being a fraud, and i wouldn't care but it would happen like that anyways. you steal my whole idea, and pass it off as your own? no where in the history of man, has that ever happened with music.
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Learyfan said:
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akira_akuma said: no one would be so brazen as to try and do what you're insisting people would do without your silly ass law. no one ever. 
PS: again, whole song as a sample? THAT CAN'T HAPPEN. how many times must i say this?
No one ever? Have you seen the internet? It's all about pushing the envelope as far as possible. People are fucking crazy. If people know they can use 100% of an existing song and make money, they're going to do it.
whoever did that would be putting a stake in any possible future career's heart, and also be ostracized. unless someone wanted to do this purely for the trolling; but in that case, whatever, let them go down for it. he won't be making money, period.
the fact that you think you can just do that make millions and never be exposed, is just silly, man.
you'd be exposed before you made anywhere close to that money, and you can guarantee, i'd be able to sue you then. legitimately.
Edited by akira_akuma (09/04/13 11:17 PM)
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Nimpo
Big Black


Registered: 05/10/12
Posts: 2,375
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan] 1
#18801549 - 09/04/13 11:16 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Learyfan said:
Quote:
Nimpo said: Anything beyond a SAMPLE needs to be paid for.
Yes, but in the legal world, you will need to define how long or of what percentage of a song is a "sample". That's the crux of the whole argument.
There is no length definition of a sample because its a SAMPLE. Anywhere from 1 frame to within 15 seconds, and can even be LONGER, via loopholes found in the system, such as changing it or manipulating it. A sample is a sample is a sample. A sample is not a segment.
You also cant take someone elses song and
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sell it and made a fortune before you could make everyone aware of it. No one will buy it from you because it's seen as being my creation. And you can't sue me because you made the law that said that any artist can sell any amount of another artists intellectual property and get away with it.
because that person sent a copyright of their song to the copyright offices PRIOR to release, like any musician does, and guess what comes back on his copyright form? A stamped date. Thats all he needs to take you to court and prove he was the original creator, ram your ass for the "fortune" you made, plus royalties (because if you take my music Ill make sure my defense team finds every way to fuck you), and then all is good with the world because I have my song, my money, and most likely your house.
You honestly need to meet with an entertainment lawyer as suggested earlier so you can sit down and ask him all these questions and get all your answers because you think this is a white or black issue but the hard truth is that the grey area is infinitely larger than both white and black.
And you still havent showed us a song sampling another song for over 20% of its entirety.
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Have you seen the internet?
I have, and I havent found a single case of what you are claiming is possible, be it a whole song used as a sample, or someone ripping off a song from a musician and claiming it to be their own (and getting away with it).
Id ask you try again, but we are all going in circles here and I have work early morning. If you respond, Ill address it tomorrow.
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akira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Nimpo]
#18801558 - 09/04/13 11:21 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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he thinks he can just hax0r his way into stealing songs from people. 
[/endthread]?
- stealing a whole work of art or a whole song is stealing
- sampling a piece of a song, is just like using a common series of notes, only a digitally done version of this concept.
- sampling is like using Monet impressionism, in a Van Gogh. it's simply an influence or inquiry determined by the artists use of the brush. it's recognized as Monet, but it's Van Gogh because it's Van Gogh, even if it's got a bit of Monet.
- sampling is not illegal, nor should any use of any isolated piece of music; and this needs to change.
Edited by akira_akuma (09/04/13 11:49 PM)
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!



Registered: 04/20/01
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
#18802232 - 09/05/13 06:21 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I should have known you guys didn't have the slightest grasp of the issue when you claimed that Jay Z was not legally forced to get permission and pay The Doors to use that sample and that he got permission "out of the kindness of his heart".
Look up Rick James vs. MC Hammer ("Super Freak"/ "U Can't Touch This") and Queen/David Bowie vs. Vanilla Ice ("Under Pressure"/ "Ice Ice Baby"). These two issues should be a good introduction to the issue for you. Spoiler, Rick James, Queen and David Bowie only had three or four seconds of their music sampled and got filthy rich when they sued.
Anyone else out there want to claim that Jay Z wasn't legally forced to pay The Doors/Electra Records?
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: The Fe-Fi-Four Plus 2 - I Wanna Come Back (From the World of LSD)
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Konyap

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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
#18802245 - 09/05/13 06:28 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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If you're making money off of it, but people nowaday's are armchair lawyers and think if something is copyrighted it can only be distributed through transactions...
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
#18802267 - 09/05/13 06:38 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Learyfan said: I should have known you guys didn't have the slightest grasp of the issue when you claimed that Jay Z was not legally forced to get permission and pay The Doors to use that sample and that he got permission "out of the kindness of his heart".
Look up Rick James vs. MC Hammer ("Super Freak"/ "U Can't Touch This") and Queen/David Bowie vs. Vanilla Ice ("Under Pressure"/ "Ice Ice Baby"). These two issues should be a good introduction to the issue for you. Spoiler, Rick James, Queen and David Bowie only had three or four seconds of their music sampled and got filthy rich when they sued.
Anyone else out there want to claim that Jay Z wasn't legally forced to pay The Doors/Electra Records?

you missed the point that sensible people don't care. those fuckers were greedy. oh and PS: the days of greedy monopolized musicians, has fallen out of style. outside the mainstream pop shit most people have come to despise, that is.
most people don't care if a mere four seconds of a song was used, as long as they are credited. fuck paying a stupid cocksucker for 4 seconds, and fuck the big wigs for letting them.
morons. money makes morons, i swear. it's not that i hate money... i mean, but just look at these results. everyone with the love of money has fucked up something good and free in this world, in some way or another.
pigs. scum. scumfucks.
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!



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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
#18802269 - 09/05/13 06:41 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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So you admit you're wrong and that Jay Z was legally forced to get permission from and pay money to The Doors.
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: The Fe-Fi-Four Plus 2 - I Wanna Come Back (From the World of LSD)
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akira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
#18802272 - 09/05/13 06:44 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Learyfan said: So you admit you're wrong and that Jay Z was legally forced to get permission from and pay money to The Doors.

i wasn't wrong about anything. it's a non-issue. what did you expect everyone to come in here to state how right you are? it's a fact, he probably had to pay him legally, because the Doors are old sons of bitches. they have no tact, nor any idea what music represents anymore. they are washed up fucking losers; which is why it's safe to say, they'd sue. that's irrelevant, however. to the bigger issue. that old washed up fucks can sue because yes, they have the ability. should they? no. no because...
Jay-Z really make that beat unrecognizable as anything amount of the melody or beat form the Doors, so you're whole wanna-be legal battle can go fuck itself straight up.
plus, anyone who thinks they can own music, seriously die. just go die make the world a better place.
oh and PS: he wasn't forced, he was coerced. 
Edited by akira_akuma (09/05/13 06:49 AM)
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elax420
Anal Destroyer


Registered: 10/16/12
Posts: 15,536
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
#18803223 - 09/05/13 12:43 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Way to say it Akira.
Saying you can own music is about as stupid as the companies that think they can own genes and genetic material.
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twighead
mͯó



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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: elax420]
#18803285 - 09/05/13 01:01 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Can an artist own a painting?
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Konyap

Registered: 06/30/07
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: twighead]
#18803331 - 09/05/13 01:15 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Akira, leading the shroomerites out of the dark
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elax420
Anal Destroyer


Registered: 10/16/12
Posts: 15,536
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: twighead]
#18803547 - 09/05/13 02:26 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
twighead said: Can an artist own a painting?
This is all my opinion and where you start getting into the murkier legalese,
but they can own the painted they created. Its image and what happens with it after its sold is free game.
for instance if i wanted to make a copy of this

everyone is going to know that is a picasso so he gets his fame either way but if i had the ability i should be able to paint it myself and hang it
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Adden

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 39,201
Loc:
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: elax420]
#18804168 - 09/05/13 05:02 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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The world's most important 6 second drum loop.
It's an 18 minute video. You're all unemployed stoners. Even you can do it.
The tl;dr is that a segment of sound has been affecting you via media/gov't/advertizing/etc if you were born after 1969.
You probably heard it a few times today listening to the radio or a TV was on in the background.
No conspiracy theory (here, anyway) some people go nuts about this about the beat doing something to the brain.
I think you both should watch it and re-evaluate where you stand. I think you'll see each others' opinions.
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Adden

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 39,201
Loc:
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Adden]
#18804172 - 09/05/13 05:03 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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2:42 explains fucking sampling too you morons (no offense I love you both)
edit -
[The Amen Break] gained fame from the 1980s onwards when four bars (6 seconds) sampled from the drum-solo (or imitations thereof) became very widely used as sampled drum loops in breakbeat, hip hop, breakbeat hardcore, hardcore techno and breakcore, jungle and drum and bass (including oldschool jungle and ragga jungle), and digital hardcore music.[1] The Amen Break was used extensively in early hiphop and sample-based music, and became the basis for drum-and-bass and jungle music—"a six-second clip that spawned several entire subcultures." It is arguably the most sampled drum beat of all time and unarguably one of the most sampled loops in contemporary electronic music.[2]
Neither the performer, drummer G.C. Coleman or the copyright owner Richard L. Spencer have ever received any royalties or clearance fees for the use of the sample, nor has either sought royalties.[3] Spencer considers musical works based on the sample "plagiarism".[4]
They'd be so fucking rich. Filthy, drooling rich if this drum break was copyrighted. I'm not kidding when I say the average person must hear it at least once a day if around electronics/advertising.
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elax420
Anal Destroyer


Registered: 10/16/12
Posts: 15,536
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Adden]
#18804190 - 09/05/13 05:06 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dystopia said: The world's most important 6 second drum loop.
It's an 18 minute video. You're all unemployed stoners. Even you can do it.
The tl;dr is that a segment of sound has been affecting you via media/gov't/advertizing/etc if you were born after 1969.
You probably heard it a few times today listening to the radio or a TV was on in the background.
No conspiracy theory (here, anyway) some people go nuts about this about the beat doing something to the brain.
I think you both should watch it and re-evaluate where you stand. I think you'll see each others' opinions.
Wait what is the most important 6 second drum beat? Cant be 5-1
you piqued my inner
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twighead
mͯó



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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Adden]
#18804348 - 09/05/13 05:46 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I've heard things pretty fucking similar to the amen before the "amen" existed - its a pretty damn easy/natural beat to come up with.
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akira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: twighead]
#18804372 - 09/05/13 05:55 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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which is why if they had copyrighted it, he'd be another greedy fucking loser, who's trying to control natural rhythms anyone would come up with.
it's like if some Japanese guy took a Taiko drumming song, and just said, "i copyrighted it, it's mine and no one can play this song we've played for centuries at religious ceremonies, anymore, without paying me large sums of money."
said person is an example of a sour, fucking loser piece of shit, who wants control of a series of notes. only retards want this.
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Konyap

Registered: 06/30/07
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
#18804380 - 09/05/13 05:58 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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which is why if they guy had copyrighted it, he'd a fucking loser.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Konyap]
#18804383 - 09/05/13 05:59 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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that guy - he'd be a fucking loser
not so clever.
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Konyap

Registered: 06/30/07
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
#18804419 - 09/05/13 06:12 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Fucking I'm actually in a battle about this right now
Basically if someone has a creative commons on it, you can use it where ever
but now watch this
If you go on youtube, download/"stream" a video to watch, you can share it with anyone in your household, because it's personal use.
Now what if someone copied someone else's work, but only used part of it?
Then it's a copyright issue that is a civil law broken, not a federal one. So the person who owns that work has to sue the person who copied for it to be brought to court.
So what they are trying to do with SOPA is make it illegal to stream to other peoples copyrighted work.
But like I said before, if I share someone's copyrighted work that they copied from someone else, am I sharing copyrighted work?
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