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magnesium
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Registered: 08/08/13
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g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon?
#18802768 - 09/05/13 10:38 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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This is my first g2g. I have an older jar that I want to turn into 8 jars. The master jar is one giant clump and will not break even after 20 minutes of hitting it on things 
Can I just wipe some IPA on the spoon and dig it out into my receiving jars?
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ghostinthemist
off in the distance i stand



Registered: 08/01/13
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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: magnesium]
#18802802 - 09/05/13 10:48 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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yes.
-------------------- When all seems lost it has been neglected for too long to be found
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Pestile

Registered: 05/02/13
Posts: 875
Loc: Northern Europe
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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: magnesium]
#18802815 - 09/05/13 10:54 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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   The Corbett Report Open Source Intelligence News
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ghostinthemist
off in the distance i stand



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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: Pestile]
#18802844 - 09/05/13 11:01 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Using your hand will not be any better. You could just beat the hell out of it for another 20 mins. Dont use your hand without a clean glove though. Nothing but contams on hands
-------------------- When all seems lost it has been neglected for too long to be found
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: magnesium]
#18802855 - 09/05/13 11:04 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
magnesium said: Can I just wipe some IPA on the spoon and dig it out into my receiving jars?
You can if you want to increase your chance of failure.
If you must use a spoon, then wrap it in foil and PC it 30 mins. You may can do it for less time, but I would do it for 30. After you PC the spoon, unwrap it in your SAB or flowhood. Do not wipe it with IPA.
IPA will only sanitize the spoon. Your master jar is contam resistant, but your new sterile jar is not. If you just wipe the spoon with IPA, you have a high risk of contaminating the new jars.
-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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DeadPhan


Registered: 05/05/04
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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: SpitballJedi]
#18802979 - 09/05/13 11:38 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Couldn't you just flame sterilize the spoon in that case?
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Big Gulps! Alright! Well, See ya later! And if i claim to be a wise man, well, it surely means that i dont know!
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magnesium
Stranger

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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: DeadPhan]
#18803039 - 09/05/13 11:49 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
DeadPhan said: Couldn't you just flame sterilize the spoon in that case?
That's what I was thinking
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: magnesium]
#18803100 - 09/05/13 12:05 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Using any tool for grain-to-grain on to a sterile media will inevitably result in a high rate of failure.
Even a flame-sterilized spoon.
Grain to grain needs to be kept 100% aseptic. This is hard enough when using proper technique, let alone when you're flailing about the jar with a spoon 
OP, if your jar is so old that the myc won't break up after some hard pounding on a telephone book or bike tire, odds are it will not perform well for much. I would just fruit the grains as they are, break them up and case them.
How old is this jar?
It may also be contam'd, they will fruit invitro if they are clean.
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ghostinthemist
off in the distance i stand



Registered: 08/01/13
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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#18803159 - 09/05/13 12:23 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Take the grains and directly mix them with a sub start a new master
-------------------- When all seems lost it has been neglected for too long to be found
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magnesium
Stranger

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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#18803172 - 09/05/13 12:26 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said: Using any tool for grain-to-grain on to a sterile media will inevitably result in a high rate of failure.
Even a flame-sterilized spoon.
Grain to grain needs to be kept 100% aseptic. This is hard enough when using proper technique, let alone when you're flailing about the jar with a spoon 
OP, if your jar is so old that the myc won't break up after some hard pounding on a telephone book or bike tire, odds are it will not perform well for much. I would just fruit the grains as they are, break them up and case them.
How old is this jar?
It may also be contam'd, they will fruit invitro if they are clean.
Not too sure, but it's probably been fully colonized for about 6 weeks. I may just go ahead and crumble em and case them.
I have 7 jars that are ready to go g2g. Are these now useless? I don't have any syringes or spores to innoc them with.
Lastly, would there be any use in trying to g2g the jars (since I probably have no use for them now since I will be casing them)anyways. I have 2 quarts that I was going to g2g eventually. Maybe case 1.5 quarts and then try a g2g with the remaining .5 quart?
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: magnesium]
#18803187 - 09/05/13 12:31 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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You would want to grain to grain the half quart first and then you can safely take it out and case the rest in open air.
If you have the materials and you are willing to accept some failure, I say go for it. Experimenting is the best way to learn something.
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ghostinthemist
off in the distance i stand



Registered: 08/01/13
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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: magnesium]
#18803249 - 09/05/13 12:52 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't understand the g2g theory anyway. Is it that you are introducing colonized myce to an sub because it will take over quicker? how much faster is g2g than multi spore?
-------------------- When all seems lost it has been neglected for too long to be found
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: ghostinthemist]
#18803271 - 09/05/13 12:58 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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usually way faster. You use a jar of colonized grain to inoculate more jars. You don't have to wait for the germination process.
So, my PC holds 7 jars. Once colonized, I can easily g2g each of those 7 to 7 more to make a total of 49 jars and so on.
This saves my spores as well as allow me to fruit many monotubs with genetics I like.
-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
Edited by SpitballJedi (09/05/13 12:59 PM)
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DeadPhan


Registered: 05/05/04
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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: ghostinthemist]
#18803278 - 09/05/13 12:59 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
ghostinthemist said: I don't understand the g2g theory anyway. Is it that you are introducing colonized myce to an sub because it will take over quicker? how much faster is g2g than multi spore?
Much faster. With multispore you have to wait for spores to germinate. With grain to grain you are introducing mycelium, not spores.
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Big Gulps! Alright! Well, See ya later! And if i claim to be a wise man, well, it surely means that i dont know!
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jonnymushroom
the man of many teks

Registered: 07/27/13
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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: magnesium]
#18803504 - 09/05/13 02:12 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Get to a clean work area with a your glove box. Torch the spoon good let it cool off in the box on something sterile and use caution breaking up the myc. by keeping all thing but the sterile spoon away from around the jar lid to be successful .
good luck
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: jonnymushroom]
#18803511 - 09/05/13 02:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Trust me, my man, it is almost guaranteed to fail.
Your hands, sleeves, arm, etc will be nearby. Even with sanitized gloves and tyvek sleeves you'll be kicking stuff around in the air as you are moving in the SAB.
Don't use tools for G2G for best chances of success
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magnesium
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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#18803599 - 09/05/13 02:39 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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OP here. I PC'd the spoon for about 30 minutes and g2g to 7 jars. I used the spoon only at the beginning to stir up the master jar. It actually broke up quite easily with the spoon, I just couldn't get it broken up by hitting things.
Things were quite clunky my first time. I'll update this thread in a few days.
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jonnymushroom
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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#18803708 - 09/05/13 03:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yea there's high odds for failure, but it can be done by (some) because I have done it but it's not a walk in the park and not fun either .
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Kizzle
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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: Pestile]
#18804136 - 09/05/13 04:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pestilence said: Breaking up spawn jars with a spoon; Cause of contamination?
Read this first.
That's different really. The link is a question about breaking grains for spawning and not for g2g to another jar. Either way a spoon shouldn't be necessary to break up a properly prepared grain jar.
I definitely agree with Frank that
Quote:
Don't use tools for G2G for best chances of success 
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Pestile

Registered: 05/02/13
Posts: 875
Loc: Northern Europe
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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: Kizzle]
#18804387 - 09/05/13 06:00 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kizzle said:
Quote:
Pestilence said: Breaking up spawn jars with a spoon; Cause of contamination?
Read this first.
That's different really. The link is a question about breaking grains for spawning and not for g2g to another jar. Either way a spoon shouldn't be necessary to break up a properly prepared grain jar.
It was meant to say the same as this quote;
Quote:
Don't use tools for G2G for best chances of success 
Other guy can't break up spawn in jar, used spoon and had contaminants. This guy can't break up spawn in jar, used spoon and maybe has contaminants.
It's almost the same, no?
--------------------
   The Corbett Report Open Source Intelligence News
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: Pestile]
#18804851 - 09/05/13 07:50 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pestilence said: Other guy can't break up spawn in jar, used spoon and had contaminants. This guy can't break up spawn in jar, used spoon and maybe has contaminants.
It's almost the same, no? 
It's exactly the same in every regard except for one is to be spawned to a sterile medium and the other is to be spawned to a pasteurized medium, which actually makes them worlds apart. A spoon that's been sent through the dishwasher is more than acceptable for the purpose of breaking up spawn for a bulk substrate. But when working with sterile substrate, nothing short of sterile is acceptable IMO.
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krypto2000
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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: Pestile]
#18804867 - 09/05/13 07:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Why us this not an issue when taking agar wedges and transferring to grain jars? We use tools for that.
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: Psilicon]
#18804886 - 09/05/13 07:58 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
van der griegen said:
Quote:
Pestilence said: Other guy can't break up spawn in jar, used spoon and had contaminants. This guy can't break up spawn in jar, used spoon and maybe has contaminants.
It's almost the same, no? 
It's exactly the same in every regard except for one is to be spawned to a sterile medium and the other is to be spawned to a pasteurized medium, which actually makes them worlds apart. A spoon that's been sent through the dishwasher is more than acceptable for the purpose of breaking up spawn for a bulk substrate. But when working with sterile substrate, nothing short of sterile is acceptable IMO.
I agree.
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: krypto2000]
#18804974 - 09/05/13 08:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
krypto2000 said: Why us this not an issue when taking agar wedges and transferring to grain jars? We use tools for that.
scalpels are easily flame sterilized.
Using a sterilized spoon should only be used as a last ditch effort and one should understand the risk.
If you just can't get the grains broken up and you don't mind risking your materials and work and your only other option is to throw it away, then fuck it, use a sterilized spoon.
BUT under no circumstances wipe the spoon with IPA. Which is what the OP asked about.
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Psilicon
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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: SpitballJedi]
#18805283 - 09/05/13 09:30 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I just did some research for another thread and found that mycelium can survive past 10,000g without lysing. The limiting factor here is the jar, and I just think OP isn't being rough enough with it.
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krypto2000
Unknown


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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: Psilicon]
#18806831 - 09/06/13 10:12 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah, I find it *really* depends on what you beat it on, just listen for the sound as to whether the glass will break or not. I've found the best things to beat it on are either some ground outside or my hands/the dirt. You basically want something that will cushion the impact to spread the force throughout the jar, yet not in a central point enough that it will break the glass. I used to actually use a spoon for all of my work until I found this out, I used to simply think you couldn't break them up by banging it on things until I tried different materials.
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DeadPhan


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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: krypto2000]
#18807543 - 09/06/13 01:52 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Fully inflated bike tire is best. Down the line I have used phone books, (pretty nonexistent in parts these days) carpet, or the lawn. I've went to town on the ground or carpet when bike tire dont do it. Mason jars can take a beating.
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Big Gulps! Alright! Well, See ya later! And if i claim to be a wise man, well, it surely means that i dont know!
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rohr
silly cybin



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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: DeadPhan]
#18807669 - 09/06/13 02:29 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I find breaking up spawn literally exhausting.
I have to ask my big strong handsome man to break up my jars for me
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invitro


Registered: 05/03/13
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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: rohr]
#18810098 - 09/07/13 12:33 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I did a batch of g2g with a spoon about 5 days ago, about 30+ jars, no contams so far. IME its about the same contam rate, maybe a tad higher but not bad.
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: invitro]
#18810367 - 09/07/13 03:09 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
invitro said: I did a batch of g2g with a spoon about 5 days ago, about 30+ jars, no contams so far. IME its about the same contam rate, maybe a tad higher but not bad.
5 days isn't that long really. If your spawn got contaminated during a transfer it will generally take 10-35 days before you see any signs of it.
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invitro


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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: Kizzle]
#18810796 - 09/07/13 08:39 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I try to make it so my g2g jars finish colonizing after 5-7 days to prevent contams. I add a lot of colonized grain to each jar to ensure this happens.
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: invitro]
#18810804 - 09/07/13 08:42 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
invitro said: I try to make it so my g2g jars finish colonizing after 5-7 days to prevent contams. I add a lot of colonized grain to each jar to ensure this happens
If your jars are contamming after only a week then you need to sterilize them better.
It should not be a "race" against the contams, there should be no contams.
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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invitro


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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: PussyFart]
#18810823 - 09/07/13 08:51 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I didn't say they were all contaming, but sometimes 10 or even 20% do after 10-14 days. According to RR's thoery that is how long it takes contams that were originally in the pced grains to wake up. So it is a race against the contams IMO. He says that the grains are not truly serilized after a pc run and that it would take 24 hours of continual pcing to truly sterilize a batch. I try to make it colonize as fast as possible as a precautionary approach, less to worry about I guess.
Edited by invitro (09/07/13 08:53 AM)
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: invitro]
#18810833 - 09/07/13 08:55 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
invitro said: I didn't say they were all contaming, but sometimes 10 or even 20% do after 10-14 days. According to RR's thoery that is how long it takes contams that were originally in the pced grains to wake up.
My grain jars stay contam free for a month or 2.
And that is not a theory, that is personal experience.
If your grain jars are contamming after only 2 weeks, something is not right.
Quote:
invitro said: So it is a race against the contams IMO.
If your mycellium has to race against contams, it has already lost.
Quote:
invitro said: He says that the grains are not truly serilized after a pc run and that it would take 24 hours of continual pcing to truly sterilize a batch.
Yes, but you do not need them to be 100% truly sterile, but at the same time they should not contaminate in 2 weeks time.
Just sayin....
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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invitro


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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: PussyFart]
#18810850 - 09/07/13 09:02 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well I dunno what to say, I pc them at the recommended time and some of them do seem to contam within 2 weeks. The contam rate is low enough that's it's not that big a deal, but I usually just chalk it up to the fact that I have to use a SAB and not a flow hood, and the house I live in is in no way shape of form sterile, and due to the fact that I do a lot of work outside, often times with moldy stuff as part of my job, no way around this. I should pc some grains and leave them unmolested for 2 weeks and see what the contam rate is, that way I'll know if it's my pc procedure or my SAB.
I didn't mean to say "theory" it's RR's personal experience too I'm sure. How many jars have you ever let sit for 2 months and 100% of them stayed good?
Edited by invitro (09/07/13 09:06 AM)
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: invitro]
#18810855 - 09/07/13 09:05 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
invitro said: The contam rate is low enough that's it's not that big a deal, but I usually just chalk it up to the fact that I have to use a SAB and not a flow hood, and the house I live in is in no way shape of form sterile, and due to the fact that I do a lot of work outside, often times with moldy stuff as part of my job, no way around this.
I only work in a SAB and have just about 100% success rate, with no plans on building a flow hood anytime soon.
Sounds like your sterile procedure needs some work.
Quote:
invitro said: I should pc some grains and leave them unmolested for 2 weeks and see what the contam rate is, that way I'll know if it's my pc procedure or my SAB.
Yes....right on....
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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invitro


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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: PussyFart]
#18810965 - 09/07/13 09:36 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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With most contams all is lost, esp if it's green or cobweb mold, but I just had a jar of myc win a battle against bacteria. some grains on the bottom were wet and greasy looking with white blotches. The rest of the jar was good myc. For about 2 weeks each party held their own ground but eventually the myc took over to my surprise. I think the jar dried out a bit making conditions harder for the bacteria.
I know what you meant though, that when you see contams the practical thing to do is pitch it. Even if you could win out it's not practical to wait an extra 2 weeks. But when I said race against contams I didn't mean 2 active networks racing aginst each other, I meant active mushrrom myc racing to colonize before the endospores wake up from their pc induced coma.
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: invitro]
#18811908 - 09/07/13 03:07 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
I didn't say they were all contaming, but sometimes 10 or even 20% do after 10-14 days.
Bacteria?
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magnesium
Stranger


Registered: 08/08/13
Posts: 31
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: Kizzle]
#18827079 - 09/11/13 09:37 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Update: It's been about a week and the jars are almost done. No sign of contams yet. G2g seems like a great way to get spawn
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invitro


Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 1 month, 20 days
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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: magnesium]
#18828170 - 09/11/13 02:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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All the ones I did are still good too.
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: invitro]
#18835274 - 09/13/13 12:49 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Of course they look good. You only have about 7-12 days for g2g to be fully colonized.
Any molds that germinate in that time will be very small colonies...but when you spawn those jars to bulk substrate, you may end up with molds during the first flush.
Regardless, I hope it works out for you.
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magnesium
Stranger


Registered: 08/08/13
Posts: 31
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
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Re: g2g: Master jar won't break up. Can I use a spoon? [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#18837139 - 09/13/13 02:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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5 of them are done. The other 2 are a little slower in a few spots. Could be that I used less transfer spawn in those jars. Also I shook them at different times so I guess only time will tell....
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