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CAP_TURTLE
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Lime soaking straw
#18802706 - 09/05/13 10:18 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ok. I got some high yield hydrated lime as pictured in Aloha's hydrated lime walk through. I see nothing about using soap. Does that mean soaking in soap to ensure hydration as you would when heat pasteurizing isn't necessary? I've read that this lime method with no heat produces better fruits than heat pasteurization but it doesnt talk about heat pasteurization used in conjunction with lime. So I'm wondering if that would prove even better. I intend to soak for maybe roughly 20 hours in the hydrated lime solution if anyone has anything to say regarding that as well.
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OmSource


Registered: 03/09/11
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no need for soap with a lime soak... I'd aim for more like 16-18h soak with lime, you can inoculate it straight without heat treatment if you've got an aggressive oyster strain and use a bit higher spawn rate than normal (I use up to 10% and it's colonised in 7-10 days) It's a great tek!
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: OmSource]
#18804108 - 09/05/13 04:47 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Can you colonize cubensis too without heat pasteurization?
the lime will make the pH right so mold won't grow?
I've always been pasteurizing straw in my PC, but it's time consuming, and can't pasteurize much at one time
I usually don't use lime, and have had success with 3 monos with straw so far, no contams yet don't PC in clear water though, PC with the straw water
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CAP_TURTLE
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Well I did a mix of both. I didnt have the ability today to get it up to 150 or higher but I got it to around 145 with heat for an hour and will let it sit a good 18 hour or so after in the calcium hydroxide solution. I put about a cup and a half into 20 gallons of water or so. Hopefully it works. Tomorrow I will drain and add grain of a P. pleurotus that has had yet to produce sizeable fruits on sawdust.
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OmSource


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This threads pretty comprehensive on lime soak tek
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18503977
I tried it years ago and failed, changed my hydrated lime to one of the "high calcium" and tried it again recently. Been getting 100% success with oysters (soaked over 30kg dry straw) If you can skip the heat treatment why not? Saves time, money and uses less resources...nice!
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drake89
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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: OmSource]
#18804943 - 09/05/13 08:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Indeed I too have been using it for a while now, About 40 or 50 straw bales now. Unfortunately it did not repel bugs and I had to throw many logs out. Back at it bug free now!
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OmSource


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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: drake89]
#18805734 - 09/05/13 11:11 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
drake89 said: Indeed I too have been using it for a while now, About 40 or 50 straw bales now. Unfortunately it did not repel bugs and I had to throw many logs out. Back at it bug free now!
how'd you get rid of the bugs? Are you growing outdoors?
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CAP_TURTLE
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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: OmSource]
#18807250 - 09/06/13 12:14 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Do you think the lime in any way attracts the bugs? Also quick question. How dry do you want to let yoru straw get before you actually spawn to it? Since I will have holes in my bucket should i merely strain then add to bucket with straw and let it dry out as it needs?
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drake89
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Quote:
OmSource said:
Quote:
drake89 said: Indeed I too have been using it for a while now, About 40 or 50 straw bales now. Unfortunately it did not repel bugs and I had to throw many logs out. Back at it bug free now!
how'd you get rid of the bugs? Are you growing outdoors?
i'm growing in a warehouse that is not really sealed off, but my grow chambers are pretty well sealed. i'm somewhat ashamed to admit that I bug bombed it, though obviously not when any substrate was in there. I also have borax on the threshold, and sticky traps, and a bug zapper. I'm gonna spread diatomecous earth around the outside today. I hear humidity renders it ineffective. Crawly bugs, specifically earwhigs are a fucking nightmare here.
Quote:
CAP_TURTLE said: Do you think the lime in any way attracts the bugs? Also quick question. How dry do you want to let yoru straw get before you actually spawn to it? Since I will have holes in my bucket should i merely strain then add to bucket with straw and let it dry out as it needs?
doubtful that it attracts bugs. Though a bunch of flies and moths commited suicide into the tank that I left sitting unused for about a week. It was starting to anaerobically ferment, and smells like horse shit. I soak in burlap sacks and let them sit on cinder blocks to drain. I use them when they are drained and any excess water comes out after i poke holes. moisture in straw can be up to 70% unlike sawdust.
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solarity
mm... my favourite food



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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: drake89]
#18807648 - 09/06/13 02:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
I soak in burlap sacks and let them sit on cinder blocks to drain
Try onion/vegetable sacks. They are poly prop, I get at least 10 runs out of one and they are cheap as.
-------------------- Commercial exotics farmer for 8 years - now sold up!
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deadmandave
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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: solarity]
#18810071 - 09/07/13 12:14 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
moisture in straw can be up to 70% unlike sawdust.
the sawdust i have measured hydrated fully at around 70% moisture as well.
Solarity, where do you get those onion bags?
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solarity
mm... my favourite food



Registered: 03/31/09
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I get mine in small quantities from eBay (uk) I assume you have the same in USA, though may be called something different! This is what I mean:

For hydrating grain in bulk I just started using woven sandbags.
-------------------- Commercial exotics farmer for 8 years - now sold up!
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CAP_TURTLE
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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: solarity]
#18811237 - 09/07/13 11:24 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I was looking at some of those the other day. If they have limited uses though it may not be worth it for the ones I was seeing but I"m keeping my eyes out.
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uncle_rico
my own worst enemy


Registered: 03/28/06
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Hydrated Lime Soak Pasteurization is getting TWO THUMBS UP from me.
I have been playing around with Pleurotus Ostreatus in bread bags, boxes and buckets. Pasteurization has been accomplished by hot water bath. My problem has been 100% colonization of the bulk substrate (bagasse).
The last two buckets I did (hot water pasteurization): Bucket 1 did not fully colonize and never fruited. Bucket 2 colonized where the rye spawn layers were (but not 100%) and fruited.
Here is a pic of the top of Bucket 2:
 The spawn did not fully colonize the substrate .. and as you can see, there is fruiting. (out of aprox. 1/3 of the holes that are over the spawn layers).
This time I did two buckets pasteurizing with lime water. Colonization of the bulk substrate was rapid and robust:
  and the two buckets are now fruiting (from probably 4/5ths of the holes.
Exciting. I'm very enthused with the hydrated lime pasteurization.
edit. here are pics of Bucket 1 (Bucket 2 is a day behind). It is fruiting out of damn near all the holes!

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Edited by uncle_rico (09/08/13 03:36 PM)
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OmSource


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Awesome uncle rico! That's very cool to see the two pasteurisation styles side by side. It's definitely a technique that needs to be explored more...I can't see the downside!
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CAP_TURTLE
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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: OmSource]
#18816206 - 09/08/13 06:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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My first run is two buckets with a lime soak but I also soaked it in soap water first and then did a sub par pasteurization of it. It is colonizing quickly and its only been 2 days! I did a little over 4 pounds between the two of them and failed to reach the top by a few inches. I'm really not sure if I'm doing a high spawn rate but I plan to toy with it. Straw is definitely fast. I have more straw soaking right now in just plain lime water. I will spawn it tomorrow to at least 2 more buckets maybe 3 if I'm lucky. Hope to post pics soon.
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liamtheloser
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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: OmSource]
#18816207 - 09/08/13 06:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Looks like the downside is looking for a place to throw the water after you're done... I have a blackberry patch in the greenbelt behind my place, was thinking about giving them the water, but I'm not sure what I'd do after they're all dead.
I'm guessing there's gotta be a way to neutralize it, maybe with acetic acid or something.
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CAP_TURTLE
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how big are your holes uncle_rico?
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OICU812
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Quote:
liamtheloser said: Looks like the downside is looking for a place to throw the water after you're done... I have a blackberry patch in the greenbelt behind my place, was thinking about giving them the water, but I'm not sure what I'd do after they're all dead.
I'm guessing there's gotta be a way to neutralize it, maybe with acetic acid or something.
You don't need to throw away the lime water, you can reuse it, especially if you do the lime shower. If you do want to dispose of it, use ascorbic acid to neutralize it down to a 7 PH.
-------------------- -------------- "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" --Benjamin Franklin "Those who give up liberty for security won't have, or deserve, either.". . . Benjamin Franklin ----> Read: The Fight of our Lives - Defeating the Ideological War Against the West - by Victor Davis Hanson
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liamtheloser
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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: OICU812]
#18817030 - 09/08/13 10:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
OICU812 said:
Quote:
liamtheloser said: Looks like the downside is looking for a place to throw the water after you're done... I have a blackberry patch in the greenbelt behind my place, was thinking about giving them the water, but I'm not sure what I'd do after they're all dead.
I'm guessing there's gotta be a way to neutralize it, maybe with acetic acid or something.
You don't need to throw away the lime water, you can reuse it, especially if you do the lime shower. If you do want to dispose of it, use ascorbic acid to neutralize it down to a 7 PH.
How to store between uses? I would think that reusing it would lead to alkaline tolerant bacterias as they sit in the solution between uses. Or am I just paranoid?
I will definitely look into lowering the pH, but will probably use phosphoric acid since it's much cheaper and readily available.
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uncle_rico
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Quote:
CAP_TURTLE said: how big are your holes uncle_rico?
the holes are 3/8".
I load the buckets and let them colonize outside in the same place they fruit. open air ... pretty ghetto, yet effective.
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deadmandave
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awesome uncle rico, those pins look fantastic! what's your spawn rate on those buckets?
anyone think there might be a possibility to ferment the alkaline straw tea and thus bring the ph down?
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CAP_TURTLE
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Reusing it would definitely be the preferred method for me since I hope to be doing this semi regularly after I am able to hit some markets. Is there anything in the typical household that would be good for regulating the ph when it does need to be dumped? Also during winter months I intend to do this indoors. Is it bad to dump this water down a drain? I also have my buckets setting right outside my greenhouse with the holes open and similar size holes but I didnt have a straing 3/4" drill bit so I used a mix of my 1/4" bit and a wood burning tool to creat my holes till I can come up wth something a little more convenient.
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drake89
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Quote:
deadmandave said: awesome uncle rico, those pins look fantastic! what's your spawn rate on those buckets?
anyone think there might be a possibility to ferment the alkaline straw tea and thus bring the ph down?
smells like poop, dont know about the pH, when you let it sit for a week or so. i'm rigging my tanks up to the waste water pipe at the warehouse so i'm no longer discharging to surface water.
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CAP_TURTLE
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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: drake89]
#18818249 - 09/09/13 09:19 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I have a drain in the floor of my growroom which goes to our waste line, whatever it would be called, and am hoping I can just add a filter drain to that. I had some lime water set for a number of days with no noticable smell. I also soaked that straw run in soap though too so I wonder if the addition of soap to the water might help keep it clean of foul smelling bacteria?
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uncle_rico
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"what's your spawn rate on those buckets?" deadmandave
The buckets are 3 1/2 gallons. I used 3 qt jars (4/5 full) of rye spawn per bucket.
An interesting side note ... after the lime water pasteurization, the bagasse turned a wild florescent orange color. ?
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FoxFire
Energized Matter



Registered: 07/17/05
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Loc: PNW
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Quote:
uncle_rico said:
Quote:
CAP_TURTLE said: how big are your holes uncle_rico?
the holes are 3/8".
I load the buckets and let them colonize outside in the same place they fruit. open air ... pretty ghetto, yet effective.
Interesting you say that, I've been colonizing my buckets in the greenhouse with open holes as well, at least on this last one, as well as the first couple runs last summer, works great!
I don't really notice a difference in colonization times and when they are ready to fruit, they just go. I just noticed pins on my new oyster buckets after only 8 days with nighttime temps down around 55-60f.
Two runs ago I put 13 five gallon buckets in there, but inside of trash bags with slits in the sides. They colonized great but I was a day late and had tons of misshapen pin clusters and long stems. They sorted themselves out quickly but it was still a shitty experience.
I like the open colonization in fruiting conditions, if you can keep humidity high. Don't want your nice aerial mycelium dying back in the holes.
PS- I dont use a liner inside of the buckets, So my buckets with the big holes (3/4" to 1") are fairly exposed.
-FF
-------------------- Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.
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OmSource


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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: FoxFire]
#18821351 - 09/09/13 11:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
FoxFire said:
Interesting you say that, I've been colonizing my buckets in the greenhouse with open holes as well, at least on this last one, as well as the first couple runs last summer, works great!
I don't really notice a difference in colonization times and when they are ready to fruit, they just go. I just noticed pins on my new oyster buckets after only 8 days with nighttime temps down around 55-60f.
Two runs ago I put 13 five gallon buckets in there, but inside of trash bags with slits in the sides. They colonized great but I was a day late and had tons of misshapen pin clusters and long stems. They sorted themselves out quickly but it was still a shitty experience.
I like the open colonization in fruiting conditions, if you can keep humidity high. Don't want your nice aerial mycelium dying back in the holes.
PS- I dont use a liner inside of the buckets, So my buckets with the big holes (3/4" to 1") are fairly exposed.
-FF
This is excellent info! I've had the same experience incubating plastic straw logs outdoors around the same temp you mentioned. It took just a bit longer but perfect colonisation and great fruits!
Not to hijack the thread but do you have any issues with fungus gnats FoxFire? I'm going to be setting up something almost identical greenhouse-wise very soon....any threads on your setup?
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cubenpete
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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: OmSource]
#18822167 - 09/10/13 06:26 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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uncle_rico
my own worst enemy


Registered: 03/28/06
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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: cubenpete]
#18822895 - 09/10/13 10:51 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Buckets 1 and 2 .. first experiment with "no heat", lime water pasteurization.

before with hot water pasteurization, I was not getting full colonization of my bulk substrates.
 
The "box" I did with lime pasteurization is also fruiting.
Now that I can fully colonize substrates, it's time to build a humidity tent. excited here.
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FoxFire
Energized Matter



Registered: 07/17/05
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Quote:
uncle_rico said: Buckets 1 and 2 .. first experiment with "no heat", lime water pasteurization.

That's awesome man!
I'm interested in why the hot water pasteurization wasn't working for you.. Do you think it was a procedural thing? Genetics? I'm really curious because I've never had a straw log/bucket not colonize..
I also just realized that those buckets are bagasse which I have never used before.. Did you spawn through or layer those buckets?
@OmSource: The only pests I get in the greenhouse are a few slugs and the occasional curious rodent. The gnats can't fly in due to positive pressure from the fan.
-FF
-------------------- Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.
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CAP_TURTLE
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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: FoxFire]
#18823535 - 09/10/13 01:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Nice buckets dude! I also somehow misread your hole size as 3/4" instead of 3/8". I've heard people prefer the smaller holes. Hvae you ever done larger?
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cubenpete
Aminita good excuse



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Very Nice, definitely going to try the lime soon.
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OmSource


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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: FoxFire]
#18825335 - 09/10/13 09:05 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
FoxFire said:
@OmSource: The only pests I get in the greenhouse are a few slugs and the occasional curious rodent. The gnats can't fly in due to positive pressure from the fan.
-FF
Awesome. Any threads on the greenhouse set-up? I checked over at FungiForum but the sites still down
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FoxFire
Energized Matter



Registered: 07/17/05
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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: OmSource]
#18826081 - 09/11/13 12:48 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I know, it's killing me! Has anyone PM'd Cyrogenicz? He hasn't been on since 8/14, about the time FungiForum went down... 
I don't really have a thread for my current greenhouse, but I'll put something together here in a day or two for ya. Ill let you know 
PS- Check out my gallery, there are pics of most of my setup in there. I'll still make a thread about my processes and the humidifier build and all that...
PPS- Also wanted to say that this is a great thread and I hope more people experiment with this method for other species and post here. Using fewer resources is A+ work in my book!
Sláinte!
-FF
-------------------- Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.
Edited by FoxFire (09/11/13 01:08 AM)
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: FoxFire]
#18826479 - 09/11/13 04:32 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
FoxFire said:
Quote:
uncle_rico said: Buckets 1 and 2 .. first experiment with "no heat", lime water pasteurization.

That's awesome man!
I'm interested in why the hot water pasteurization wasn't working for you.. Do you think it was a procedural thing? Genetics? I'm really curious because I've never had a straw log/bucket not colonize..
I also just realized that those buckets are bagasse which I have never used before.. Did you spawn through or layer those buckets?
@OmSource: The only pests I get in the greenhouse are a few slugs and the occasional curious rodent. The gnats can't fly in due to positive pressure from the fan.
-FF
I had the issue of straw not colonizing completely
But haven't tried lime soaking yet, that was with hot waster pasteurization...:
It was too dry, now I soak 24 hours before pasteurization, had forgotten that.. (had used a short soak... that doesn't work... unless you soak in soap iirc to reduce surface tension for better absorption, they have to soak for long normally)
It only colonized partially, but still fruited
Could be due to bacteria too though... they often look like transparent mycellium/smell a bit different/bad
Also I always squeeze my straw / add weight on top so it colonizes easier, dunno how to apply that for buckets, since I use monotubs
Edited by lessismore (09/11/13 04:44 AM)
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drake89
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Anyone tried wood ash yet? I've been thinking about it every time I dump the grill out, been grillin n chillin a lot here lately.
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CAP_TURTLE
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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: drake89]
#18826947 - 09/11/13 08:46 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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No. I wish I had drake. I dumped out my fire pit right before I read the thread on wood ash :/ As for the charcoal is this the same thing? Or are you using a certain type of charcoal? I'm wondering if grease drippings into the ash as it was burned would have any foul effects as well. As for the Lime process the one I did with lime and a mild pasteurization, meaning I didn't get it above 145 and only for 45 mins at most turned out great and 2 buckets are now fully colonized. I also did 2 large straw bags as well with only lime, no heat, and mild temps(cold water out of the garden hose) and this is starting to take off as well but a couple more days will be needed to fully see the results. I will post pics as they become available though.
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drake89
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yeah i'm starting to wonder if treating the straw is even necessary to begin with. I know if you start with moldy straw you're going to get mold problems no matter what. But since you've got to soak it anyway the lime certainly doesn't seem to be hurting. I use it exclusively and I make 20 straw logs a week. I'll post pics once I get my room full. Too bashful to show it otherwise
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OmSource


Registered: 03/09/11
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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: FoxFire]
#18829271 - 09/11/13 06:47 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
FoxFire said: I know, it's killing me! Has anyone PM'd Cyrogenicz? He hasn't been on since 8/14, about the time FungiForum went down... 
I don't really have a thread for my current greenhouse, but I'll put something together here in a day or two for ya. Ill let you know 
PS- Check out my gallery, there are pics of most of my setup in there. I'll still make a thread about my processes and the humidifier build and all that...
-FF
I know! A lost resource for sure. I'm setting up something almost identical to yours very soon so I'll definitely check the gallery and keep my eye out for more. Cheers!
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uncle_rico
my own worst enemy


Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 2,664
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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: FoxFire]
#18830359 - 09/11/13 10:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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"I'm interested in why the hot water pasteurization wasn't working for you.. Do you think it was a procedural thing? Genetics? I'm really curious because I've never had a straw log/bucket not colonize..
I also just realized that those buckets are bagasse which I have never used before.. Did you spawn through or layer those buckets?" FF
I don't think it was a procedural or genetics thing. I'm thinking it was a ph thing.
The spawn was layered.
CAP_TURTLE ... I haven't done holes larger than 3/8". These are the first buckets I drilled ... and 3/8" was the biggest bit I could 'chuck up' in my little drill.
Some of the pins didn't develop past the initial pinset ... I figure there were too many for the substrate to support. .. I think fewer, larger holes may work out better.
FoxFire has various sized holes in the buckets in his gallery. do you recommend fewer, larger holes?
 1st two lime buckets continuing to develop.
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FoxFire
Energized Matter



Registered: 07/17/05
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I'd say those are good to go Rico!  What if, when we are pasteurizing it's been the lime doing the job all along, and the heat is only secondary... 
Quote:
FoxFire has various sized holes in the buckets in his gallery. do you recommend fewer, larger holes?
No. I recommend the same 4-5 inch spacing with smaller holes. Especially in the 5 gallon buckets, it's still a lot of holes which = a lot of surface area. I'm thinking 3/8" to 1/2" holes are best.
My newest run has mostly 3/8 inch holes that are pinning as of a few days ago, looks like Saturdays Farmers Market is a go! 
The bucket with the red warning label is from the old run, and the one bucket that is past its prime is for a spore photo op fyi
    (Sorry, I never miss a chance to show off )
Another thing I noticed when using the smaller holes is that when you pack the straw into it, it doesn't poke out the sides as much,. and the grain spawn doesn't fall out the holes as much either.
The 1" holes can give you some HUGE clusters, but at the sacrifice of most of the other clusters that grow poorly or just abort. 
Buckets are great, but I can't wait to have the facilities to hang up a bunch of columns! And if these oysters eat up the lime soaked straw en masse, that could prove to be very profitable...

-FF
-------------------- Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 1,135
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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: FoxFire]
#18831957 - 09/12/13 10:40 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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It looks like you have a lot of buckets in your room with 1" plus holes? Are those older buckets? Also do you use food safe buckets? They are more expensive but I have been buying them in case that becomes an issue in the future with any of the markets I wish to attend. I am planning a setup more or less exactly like yours though! Also forgive me if I've already asked you lol it's hard to remember all the great people around here but what are you doing for humidity and what about exhaust?
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FoxFire
Energized Matter



Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 1,281
Loc: PNW
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I dont want to thread jack this most excellent of threads, so I made this thread about my green house and buckets and whatnot.
To answer your question, most of the new batch is in buckets with 3/8" holes, but there are some of the bigger ones in there.
All my buckets are food grade, either pickle buckets or the ones I got off ebay from an ice cream place (they all smell like raspberry jam ).
My GH has no exhaust, it's outside so it's always full of fresh air, that seems to have come new-made from snowy mountains high beneath a dome of stars, or from shores of silver far away washed by seas of foam.
Yeah, it's that fresh.

-FF
-------------------- Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: FoxFire]
#18836516 - 09/13/13 11:18 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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When examining my lime soaked straw today I realized there are sprouts in it! I seen there was light wheat grains in it but figured so long as no contams ate it they'd be fine. Well no contams got to them but they sprouted lol I'm not sure if this will cause me any issues in the future. Will it just continue to grow if i let it and i can dispose of it when I dispose of the bags/buckets or will it die while being taken over by the mycelium then be prone to contams later. The ones I pasteurized for 30-45 mins at 145 before it dropped along with teh lime didn't get any sprouts but was a hassle so I'd like to continue with the lime and have 4 ful bales of this straw left.
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worowa
Professor

Registered: 06/29/07
Posts: 299
Last seen: 8 months, 25 days
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Quote:
CAP_TURTLE said: When examining my lime soaked straw today I realized there are sprouts in it! I seen there was light wheat grains in it but figured so long as no contams ate it they'd be fine. Well no contams got to them but they sprouted lol I'm not sure if this will cause me any issues in the future. Will it just continue to grow if i let it and i can dispose of it when I dispose of the bags/buckets or will it die while being taken over by the mycelium then be prone to contams later. The ones I pasteurized for 30-45 mins at 145 before it dropped along with teh lime didn't get any sprouts but was a hassle so I'd like to continue with the lime and have 4 ful bales of this straw left.
Yeh, I've had the same thing when using oat chaff and lime. The blocks fruited mushies, but the oats only got a few leaves, grew about 15cm, then shrivelled up. What I found interesting was some of the bags I didn't spawn-the ones left open sprouted oats, the ones I folded up never did,so CO2 (my guess)seems important for seed sprouting. I've had success with enoki, king oysters,a shimeji (not sure if it's Llyophylum) and shiitake using lime soaked eucalypt sawdust.
-------------------- We are all in this together. Visit my site, forestfungi.com.au, let me know what you think.
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 1,135
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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: worowa]
#18839234 - 09/13/13 10:52 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Just curious foxfire, what area are you in and what do you sell oysters for?
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FoxFire
Energized Matter



Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 1,281
Loc: PNW
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I'm up in the San Juan Islands, Washington.
I sell my oysters for $10/pound to the restaurants, and $4/quarter pound ($16/lb) at the farmers market.
I am the only person, as far as I know, who is doing this in the whole county, at least on this scale, which isn't all that big in the grand scheme of things.. 
-FF
-------------------- Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.
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liamtheloser
Advanced Idiot

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 1,453
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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: FoxFire]
#18839738 - 09/14/13 01:15 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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You on orcas?
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uncle_rico
my own worst enemy


Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 2,664
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well .... guys ... I have had some left-over lime water sitting in a closed bin for 3 days (it is Friday night and I spawned buckets Tuesday night). I opened the lid ... PU!
stinky ... like fish .. fishy bacteria.
I am not so keen on reusing this lime water, in fact, I won't. keeping the water use to a minimum and then neutralizing/discarding it seems like the direction I will go.
I'm loving the lime water pasteurization. (just started another batch soaking tonight)
  1st two buckets ... harvested .. and dunked. two other buckets made up Tuesday .... next batch of bulk is pasteurizing now.
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deadmandave
Slime


Registered: 02/16/10
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those are some good looking oysers! I used a stinky batch of lime and after 48 hours the log smelled normal so that was nice.
i've found that throwing a few kgs of wood chips into the lime water and letting it soak for a while brings the ph down to ~8. These are mostly cottonwood and a bit of aspen chips.
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OICU812
NC Tree Farm owner


Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 1,064
Loc: Foothills of NC
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Generally, the fishy smell from the leftover lime water will be due to anaerobic bacteria, that is, bacteria formed in the absence of oxygen. Try using a small aquarium air pump with some tubing and an air stone. Bubbling some air in the water continuously will inject oxygen and thus prevent this bacterium.
-------------------- -------------- "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" --Benjamin Franklin "Those who give up liberty for security won't have, or deserve, either.". . . Benjamin Franklin ----> Read: The Fight of our Lives - Defeating the Ideological War Against the West - by Victor Davis Hanson
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: OICU812]
#18840702 - 09/14/13 10:59 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thats an awesome idea OICU812! I knew I saved that fish pump for something lol I found ause for the aquarium it was to to pump mist into my greenhouse the other day. It had a lid with 2 removeable holes so fan goe into one and exhaust for mist out the other. I will try this immediately and let all know how it works. As far as the smell though I havent noticed this yet.
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



Registered: 03/11/05
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I accidentally soaked my straw around 40 or so hours instead of 24. Anyone think I will have a problem using this? I used fresh water for this batch.
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Ripjohnnyc
ninja


Registered: 11/18/11
Posts: 115
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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I accidentally left my soak for 2 days, and I tried it out. The straw was so dark and looked over saturated, but I inoculated some 3 ft logs anyways. The mycelium started growing, but after a couple days the whole thing was disgusting so I tossed them outside. I just threw them in the forrest at the back of my property, and they are recovering. I hope to have some "wild" oysters next year if these logs end up fruiting out there. I think if I had a way to dry the straw out more it would of work, I just find it hard getting the straw to field capacity because the cold wet straw just doesn't dry nicely like hot pasteurized straw. I am going to give those onion bags a try others have mentioned. Good luck!
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drake89
Mushroom Magnate



Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 4,168
Loc: TN
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Quote:
Ripjohnnyc said: I accidentally left my soak for 2 days, and I tried it out. The straw was so dark and looked over saturated, but I inoculated some 3 ft logs anyways. The mycelium started growing, but after a couple days the whole thing was disgusting so I tossed them outside. I just threw them in the forrest at the back of my property, and they are recovering. I hope to have some "wild" oysters next year if these logs end up fruiting out there. I think if I had a way to dry the straw out more it would of work, I just find it hard getting the straw to field capacity because the cold wet straw just doesn't dry nicely like hot pasteurized straw. I am going to give those onion bags a try others have mentioned. Good luck!
Quote:
Ripjohnnyc said: I accidentally left my soak for 2 days, and I tried it out. The straw was so dark and looked over saturated, but I inoculated some 3 ft logs anyways. The mycelium started growing, but after a couple days the whole thing was disgusting so I tossed them outside. I just threw them in the forrest at the back of my property, and they are recovering. I hope to have some "wild" oysters next year if these logs end up fruiting out there. I think if I had a way to dry the straw out more it would of work, I just find it hard getting the straw to field capacity because the cold wet straw just doesn't dry nicely like hot pasteurized straw. I am going to give those onion bags a try others have mentioned. Good luck!
Quote:
Ripjohnnyc said: I accidentally left my soak for 2 days, and I tried it out. The straw was so dark and looked over saturated, but I inoculated some 3 ft logs anyways. The mycelium started growing, but after a couple days the whole thing was disgusting so I tossed them outside. I just threw them in the forrest at the back of my property, and they are recovering. I hope to have some "wild" oysters next year if these logs end up fruiting out there. I think if I had a way to dry the straw out more it would of work, I just find it hard getting the straw to field capacity because the cold wet straw just doesn't dry nicely like hot pasteurized straw. I am going to give those onion bags a try others have mentioned. Good luck!
I gave laundry bags a try yesterday cause I can strap them straight to my woodchipper, I don't know why I didn't think of this before. Now I spend a half hour rather than a full hour every afternoon with the straw shredding. Liberating!
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cyt333
Stranger



Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 11
Loc: Oregon
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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: drake89]
#18851270 - 09/16/13 09:03 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I have used the mesh laundry bags bungeed to my chipper for a few years now. They would go from the chipper right into my barrel pasturizer. Cheap from Wallyworld and would usually last a few months. Don't know how long the bags will last with a lime soak. The lime tek looks very promising.
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NSF
Eager to learn


Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 548
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: OICU812] 1
#18855411 - 09/17/13 08:43 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
OICU812 said: Generally, the fishy smell from the leftover lime water will be due to anaerobic bacteria, that is, bacteria formed in the absence of oxygen. Try using a small aquarium air pump with some tubing and an air stone. Bubbling some air in the water continuously will inject oxygen and thus prevent this bacterium.

I wonder whether or not oxygenating the water is a good idea, here's a video where stamets talks about anaerobic pasteurisation in salt water, then using oxygen to kill the bacteria Stamets at the Uplift festival Australia
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: NSF]
#18857283 - 09/18/13 10:03 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Slightly off topic but how are you guys cutting your straw? right now i'm using the mower but I need a way to do it indoors. Either leaf blower setup or trash can and weed eater is the other option. Any bad experiences with either?
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Forrester
aspiring sociopath


Registered: 02/05/13
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Loc: Northeast USA
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^^ I haven't used either method myself, but a friend of mine is a big fan of the weed-eater in a trash can method. He just modified the lid with a hole only big enough to stick the handle of the weed-eater through. He used it indoors in his basement, said it worked well and kept pieces from flying all over the place.
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: Forrester]
#18857479 - 09/18/13 11:11 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I have a weedeater I just can't figure out how to replace the head. I may get a leafblower just cause I need one too so if It doesnt work I have one for the yard. I think a piece is missing off my weedeater but I"m about to find out I suppose as well.
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liamtheloser
Advanced Idiot

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 1,453
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Why do you need to take the head off?
Just cut a slit in the garbage can lid that leads to the hole in the middle and slide it over the weed whacker.
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



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No. I can't get string to stay on the spool. I tried to string the existing spool and it didnt work. I think I need to put a new spool altogether and I think whatever feeds the line is missing.
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ghiajake
Myco-Viking


Registered: 01/10/13
Posts: 3,846
Loc: Indiana
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Hey liam, finding you everywhere here.
To everyone else, this is awesome! I am making the transition from actives to edibles (like so many have). One I get my partner fully trained I'll be forgoing actives and strictly growing edible and medicinal fungi, as I am starting a local mycological society. I have been wondering how I was gonna pasteurize large batches and the hydrated lime idea is perfect for me. Will be a few weeks before I'm ready to give it a try, but I'm feeling rather excited about it. Thanks for the info guys!
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drake89
Mushroom Magnate



Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 4,168
Loc: TN
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Quote:
CAP_TURTLE said: Slightly off topic but how are you guys cutting your straw? right now i'm using the mower but I need a way to do it indoors. Either leaf blower setup or trash can and weed eater is the other option. Any bad experiences with either?
troy bilt wood chippers. i have two because as you will find in 'survivalist' literature, having one is none and two is one. This way when one fails I can use the other while it is being fixed. They are not commercial grade and will eventually suck straw into the carburetor or otherwise fail.
That said, I started with weed eater from the flea market in barrel method, and it works fine. modifying the lid sounds good.
On the topic of straw logs, I got pinks pinning today, 12 days after inoculation. And using lime bath.
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 1,135
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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: drake89]
#18857981 - 09/18/13 01:08 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm purchasing a utility sink today and was thinking I could maybe just use that for my soak and drain when finished. It will hold 22 gallons so maybe it will do enough for 4 buckets at a time.
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OICU812
NC Tree Farm owner


Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 1,064
Loc: Foothills of NC
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Somewhere I saw a post where someone turned an electric mower upside down and mounted a steel drum with both ends cut out onto it. He rigged up a spout on the mower exit chute that would hold large laundry bags.
Also, I saw a local grower use a gas-powered hedge clipper on several bails. It went pretty quickly and there was hardly any fly at all.
-------------------- -------------- "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" --Benjamin Franklin "Those who give up liberty for security won't have, or deserve, either.". . . Benjamin Franklin ----> Read: The Fight of our Lives - Defeating the Ideological War Against the West - by Victor Davis Hanson
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OICU812
NC Tree Farm owner


Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 1,064
Loc: Foothills of NC
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Quote:
CAP_TURTLE said: I'm purchasing a utility sink today and was thinking I could maybe just use that for my soak and drain when finished. It will hold 22 gallons so maybe it will do enough for 4 buckets at a time.
Old bathtubs work great and hold about a bale. You can usually get them free if you look around.
-------------------- -------------- "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" --Benjamin Franklin "Those who give up liberty for security won't have, or deserve, either.". . . Benjamin Franklin ----> Read: The Fight of our Lives - Defeating the Ideological War Against the West - by Victor Davis Hanson
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Forrester
aspiring sociopath


Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 9,351
Loc: Northeast USA
Last seen: 25 days, 8 hours
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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: OICU812]
#18860693 - 09/18/13 10:16 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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That hedge clipper idea ran through my head once, interesting to hear someone's tried it! Also, great idea on the bath tub.
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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worowa
Professor

Registered: 06/29/07
Posts: 299
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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: Forrester]
#18863488 - 09/19/13 03:24 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Bath tubs also make great fruiting containers. Soak, drain, spawn,fruit.
-------------------- We are all in this together. Visit my site, forestfungi.com.au, let me know what you think.
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



Registered: 03/11/05
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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: worowa]
#18864510 - 09/19/13 07:00 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I burnt out a weed eater already before I could do 2 full trash cans of straw :/ I finished with the leaf blower though and it was so much easier! I bought the extended warranty on it as well so i'll see how far it gets me
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cubenpete
Aminita good excuse



Registered: 03/13/12
Posts: 837
Loc: Kentucky
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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Quote:
CAP_TURTLE said: I burnt out a weed eater already before I could do 2 full trash cans of straw :/ I finished with the leaf blower though and it was so much easier! I bought the extended warranty on it as well so i'll see how far it gets me 
How do you use a leaf blower to shred straw?
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liamtheloser
Advanced Idiot

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 1,453
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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: cubenpete]
#18864540 - 09/19/13 07:06 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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The kind that sucks them up and mulches.
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cubenpete
Aminita good excuse



Registered: 03/13/12
Posts: 837
Loc: Kentucky
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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Sounds like a sucker not a blower Liam..lol How much do those cost? Seriously how much.
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liamtheloser
Advanced Idiot

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 1,453
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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: cubenpete]
#18864640 - 09/19/13 07:24 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Sixty five on amazon, probably similar price in store.
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



Registered: 03/11/05
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I got mine at menards for 35 bucks! 5 dollars more for a total of 3 years warranty! I said blower just because it is a second option of hte blowers. I didnt buy a mulcher itself but yeah its a blower/mulcher. It even has a bag to collect the straw so I can fill a trash can with straw, loosen it up so it sucks up easily, then just suck it up, empty the bag, repeat. I read some people do it 2x but 1x got it to where my mower has been getting me so i'm satisfied with that for now
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cubenpete
Aminita good excuse



Registered: 03/13/12
Posts: 837
Loc: Kentucky
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Looks like a great idea and might work for me in my limited space. The warranty was probably a good decision as straw can be some tough stuff.
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: cubenpete]
#18865062 - 09/19/13 08:42 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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While most promised 10 to 1 breakdown of leaf matter, the one I got says 16:1 So that may be why i only had to run it through once while others run it 2x but yeah 35 bucks i might as well just buy an extra lol. Falls coming anyways so it was perfect timing. They are on sale til at least sunday at mendards.
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ghiajake
Myco-Viking


Registered: 01/10/13
Posts: 3,846
Loc: Indiana
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Quote:
CAP_TURTLE said: I finished with the leaf blower though and it was so much easier! I bought the extended warranty on it as well so i'll see how far it gets me 
Glad it worked good for you. I have a nice blower/mulcher (own a landscaping business). Tried gas-powered hedge trimmers before but they didn't work very well. Very inconsistent sizes of shredded straw. Would be interesting to see if you could shred straight to the onion/vegetable bags suggested earlier. Don't see why it wouldn't work fabulously.
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



Registered: 03/11/05
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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: ghiajake]
#18865951 - 09/20/13 12:48 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I picked up some rather durable laundry bags but if doing this indoors it probalby wouldnt be a great idea as all the dust would fly through it, but outdoors it may definitely be convenient.
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ghiajake
Myco-Viking


Registered: 01/10/13
Posts: 3,846
Loc: Indiana
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I had planned on doing it outdoors anyways. Girlfriend would have my ass for doing it inside. Need to get some new clean straw first though.
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deadmandave
Slime


Registered: 02/16/10
Posts: 3,355
Loc:
Last seen: 14 hours, 41 minutes
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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: ghiajake]
#18892295 - 09/26/13 01:14 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Just wanted to share a pic of mushrooms growing on lime treated straw. ~9lbs straw, 8 jars of spawn.
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



Registered: 03/11/05
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any idea how much the bag weighs overall? Also how do you weigh your straw? I have buckets of HK variety pinning like crazy and have been picking outgrows pulmonarius strain but it is still fruiting very weak :/ So I won't share those.......
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deadmandave
Slime


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the log probably weighs about 35 lbs total. I estimated the weight of the straw based on how much of the bale i used when chopping/pasteurizing. so all these numbers are just estimations
im using pulmonarius as well. How old is your culture & what's your spawn ratio?
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CAP_TURTLE
Adventurer



Registered: 03/11/05
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My culture was one from outgrow and not old at all. My spawn ratio is approximately 2-2.5lbs of spawn to a 5 gallon bucket.
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ghiajake
Myco-Viking


Registered: 01/10/13
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So I did my first attempt at lime pasteurizing straw today. Did enough for one bag each of King and Pink Oysters. I have a question. I plan on spawning from grain to plugs for noc'ing downed trees and stumps. My question is has anyone tried lime pasteurizing dowels?
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cubenpete
Aminita good excuse



Registered: 03/13/12
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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: ghiajake]
#18962208 - 10/11/13 12:19 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Seems that plugs(hard wood) might benefit from heat pasteurization by allowing the higher temps to expand the less dense, outer wood or the adhering, resin layers within. These checks and cracks created in the process would allow spawn to gain foot holds within the plug's core. However, A dose of Lyme surly couldn't hurt by saturating the heated, opened .pores of the inner wood .
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ghiajake
Myco-Viking


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Posts: 3,846
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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: cubenpete]
#18962249 - 10/11/13 12:39 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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That brings up another thought. Creating a mild to moderate vacuum on the plugs while soaking should help open the pores of the wood without over saturation. I've noticed it helps with my grain spawn hydration when I pour boiling water onto dry grains in a 5 gallon bucket, then seal the lid, shake, burp, and repeat until the lid stays sucked in. Really sucks the plastic bucket in tight on the sides. I think I'll try a batch of plugs vacuum sealed during lime pasteurizing soak in a couple quart jars and see how they do.
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liamtheloser
Advanced Idiot

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 1,453
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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: ghiajake]
#18962288 - 10/11/13 01:01 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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You could use a vacuum sealer... I use mine to marinate mushrooms and veggies, really gets the marinade deep into the organism.
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ghiajake
Myco-Viking


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I borrowed my gf's mom's food sealer, I just don't know if the vacuum would be strong enough to open the pores of the wood without heat. No harm in giving it a shot though.
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liamtheloser
Advanced Idiot

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 1,453
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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: ghiajake]
#18962436 - 10/11/13 02:23 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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It's under vacuum, after you vacuum seal it, put it in a pot of boiling water. I'm sure it's enough to force water into them though.
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akalais
Low cost grower



Registered: 09/20/13
Posts: 79
Loc: Strait of Gibraltar
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Would lime work on sawdust too?
Following this thread, since I'm very interested on the viability of chemical pasteurization.
Edited by akalais (10/11/13 01:07 PM)
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ghiajake
Myco-Viking


Registered: 01/10/13
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Loc: Indiana
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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: akalais]
#18967921 - 10/12/13 11:15 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I did see either on this thread or one of the others about lime pasteurizing sawdust. If I remember correctly it worked good.
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deadmandave
Slime


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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: ghiajake]
#18970854 - 10/13/13 01:38 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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yeah i tried it for p pulmonarius. It did work nice. I mixed the lime and water together and then mixed water with the sawdust until it was hydrated.. and that was it! pasteurized! all 9 bags i made colonized without a problem and fruited wonderfully.
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ghiajake
Myco-Viking


Registered: 01/10/13
Posts: 3,846
Loc: Indiana
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What ratio of lime to water did you use?
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deadmandave
Slime


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Re: Lime soaking straw [Re: ghiajake]
#18970873 - 10/13/13 01:53 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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