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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Nimpo]
    #18801067 - 09/04/13 09:16 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Would using 90% of a song be stealing or sampling?  Answer the question. 
















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InvisibleNimpo
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18801078 - 09/04/13 09:18 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
Would using 90% of a song be stealing or sampling?  Answer the question. 




Are you daft?

Ill answer the question if you can find me a song that has sampled 20% or more of another song, and thats being generous with your hilarious 90%. With an average song thats 3 minutes long, I need to hear 36 seconds or more of the sampled song playing straight through (because looped bytes dont count).

Let me know. Please.


Edited by Nimpo (09/04/13 09:24 PM)


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Nimpo]
    #18801110 - 09/04/13 09:24 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Seeing is how I've gone on about this with him this long, I'm starting to wonder. 











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Mp3 of the month:  The Fe-Fi-Four Plus 2 - I Wanna Come Back (From the World of LSD)



Edited by Learyfan (09/04/13 09:30 PM)


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Nimpo]
    #18801139 - 09/04/13 09:30 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Nimpo said:
Ill answer the question if you can find me a song that has sampled 20% or more of another song, and thats being generous with your hilarious 90%. With an average song thats 3 minutes long, I need to hear 36 seconds or more of the sampled song playing straight through (because looped bytes dont count).

Let me know. Please.




Thank you for the 20%.  Now we're getting somewhere. 

Now it doesn't matter if that song has been made yet.  Let's say you, Nimpo, get the final say on these laws today.  Would you rule that artists would need to be paid if 20% of their song was used in someone else's song? 















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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18801210 - 09/04/13 09:47 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
if you're rearranging it, it's being used a sequence of "notes and progressions" that aren't inherent to the original song hence, is NOT STEALING.




So if I were to release an entire Doors album in full, except that each song has one second of noise other than what the original album had, in the middle of each song, then I should be able to legally sell that album to people as my own creation?  The songs are technically rearranged, because they are split in two by that one second of some other noise, and thus it's not stealing.  Yes or no. 

















yes or no? ok, no.

that's not even close to what i was saying, BTW.

by re-arrange, i mean entirely. you can't just put a noise in the middle of the song, and then it's a different song? WTF are you talking about?


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18801225 - 09/04/13 09:50 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
by re-arrange, i mean entirely. you can't just put a noise in the middle of the song, and then it's a different song? WTF are you talking about?




If you're making the laws, then you have to be very, very specific about what you mean by "entirely". 
















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InvisibleNimpo
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18801274 - 09/04/13 10:00 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:

Would you rule that artists would need to be paid if 20% of their song was used in someone else's song? 





No, I wouldn't. Sampling should always be free. A sample is a sample. You seem to be trying to misconstrued the argument here but fact is no one has ever used a sample thats been 20% or more of someone elses song because then it wouldnt be a sample and thus throws your entire argument into the trash. This thread is about

Quote:

Learyfan said:
the remaining Doors allowed Jay Z to sample their song 'Five To One' in his song 'The Takeover'.




So we are talking about samples, not segments, which you keep trying to fast ball here but it aint working.

Heres an interesting read for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_(music)

Heres a fantastic song sampling two different parts of another song thats irrelevant to this thread but worth sharing cause its hip hop sampling a song from '67:

The song they sampled:


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18801318 - 09/04/13 10:09 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
by re-arrange, i mean entirely. you can't just put a noise in the middle of the song, and then it's a different song? WTF are you talking about?




If you're making the laws, then you have to be very, very specific about what you mean by "entirely". 


















yeah, well, i could... but you'd just ask more questions to verify that your confusion some more, and then i'd get pissed and have you annihilated.

Entirely: an entire song, or section of a song.

Definition: a piece of composition recognized wholly as another song, entirely.

yeah, Nimpo, lets post more songs with cool bits like

Paris - The Days of Old


sampled from

The Blackbyrds


:yesnod: two very different songs.


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Nimpo]
    #18801338 - 09/04/13 10:13 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Nimpo said:
no one has ever used a sample thats been 20% or more of someone elses song because then it wouldnt be a sample




Okay then, no more dancing around.  You make the rules, Nimpo.  You have to give us the exact percentage of a song that an artist may use for their song before they have to pay.  What is that number. 

















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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18801343 - 09/04/13 10:14 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

let me guess Nimpo.

0%

right?
:lol:


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18801356 - 09/04/13 10:16 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Entirely: an entire song, or section of a song.

Definition: a piece of composition recognized wholly as another song, entirely.




So you say "section of a song" and then you go back to "entirely" again.  Which is it?  And what is the definition of "section".  Answer as if you're defending yourself in a court of law when someone sues you for taking a "section" of their intellectual property and then selling it. 
















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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18801393 - 09/04/13 10:26 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
let me guess Nimpo.

0%

right?
:lol:




I hope he does say 0%.  Then I'll take his entire (theoretical) song, release it in full under my name and make a million.  Okay, I personally couldn't do that, but you get the point. 

















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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18801403 - 09/04/13 10:29 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

it has to be to be recognized as a whole section of a song. it can't made any clearly without appealing to your foolishness, flat out.

YOU THINK, that as long as it's "recognized" period that it's something someone should sue someone over. you're fucked in the head.
Quote:

Learyfan said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
let me guess Nimpo.

0%

right?
:lol:




I hope he does say 0%.  Then I'll take his entire (theoretical) song, release it in full under my name and make a million.  Okay, I personally couldn't do that, but you get the point. 



















that's the dumbest thing, i think you've said yet.

all you care about is the gravy train, and still completely missing the point. you asked to make a distinction on how much is acceptable to use in a sample from a song, and how much is not acceptable, before being able to sue.

his answer, is probably like mine. 0%, as in NO AMOUNT should be un-acceptable, to make a suit about.

PS: oh and BTW, people would know that you stole it. so you wouldn't be making dick-all on your gravy train, dude. :lol:

Jim Morrison must have really been a tard if his argument was that "people really shouldn't sample our music, because i want people to only recognize it as the Doors."

:flowstone: yeah, the internet Jim; the internet saves you from your bleeding heart. no worries, everyone knows who you are, and what songs are yours. no need to pout or for heaven's sake, KILL YOURSELF, or anything? :loldongs:


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18801428 - 09/04/13 10:37 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
YOU THINK, that as long as it's "recognized" period that it's something someone should sue someone over. you're fucked in the head.
Quote:






No, not just me.  Whoever makes and enforces those laws think that also.  And they made it a (good) law.  Or did you think Jay Z paid The Doors out of the goodness of his heart? 






Quote:

akira_akuma said:
his answer, is probably like mine. 0%, as in NO AMOUNT should be un-acceptable, to make a suit about.




Okay, then as an artist, you're leaving yourself completely open.  Anyone can take 100% of your song and release it as theirs and it's legally a "sample".  Dude, you're only saying that because you're not in the position of the artist having his shit sold by someone else. 















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InvisibleNimpo
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18801439 - 09/04/13 10:40 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
Quote:

Nimpo said:
no one has ever used a sample thats been 20% or more of someone elses song because then it wouldnt be a sample




Okay then, no more dancing around.  You make the rules, Nimpo.  You have to give us the exact percentage of a song that an artist may use for their song before they have to pay.  What is that number. 




Anything beyond a SAMPLE needs to be paid for. Holy shit man, are we talking about rocket science here? How hard is this to grasp? Are you sure you know what a sample is?

Quote:

Learyfan said:
Anyone can take 100% of your song and release it as theirs and it's legally a "sample".




Guess you don't.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18801441 - 09/04/13 10:41 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

he paid him out of the goodness of his art. he wanted a reparte with one of the Doors personally, so he could clear with him, so that he would be being professional.


Quote:

Anyone can take 100% of your song and release it as theirs and it's legally a "sample"




AND NO THEY COULDN'T. what you think some hacker is gonna come, steal my tracks and sell it make millions? i will... :lol: go on the internet, and verify that it's my music, if in this crazy dimension that ever happened, and people would know it was mine because i'd show them tracks and/or samples i made the songs with.

no one would be so brazen as to try and do what you're insisting people would do without your silly ass law. no one ever. :lol:

PS: again, whole song as a sample? THAT CAN'T HAPPEN. :lol: how many times must i say this?


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18801467 - 09/04/13 10:49 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

let me just give an example, guess i'm starting to have some fun with this... :lol:

one of these days when i get some time and some good audio software, i'm gonna isolate the bass melodies of every single Parliment track, and slice two notes from every single one at random, to what sounds preferential, and then string them all together backwards chronologically, just for a good measure...

:lol: totally legal to sell. i'll call it um... "Fuck The Music Industry and Has-Been's, In General"


:yesnod:


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18801483 - 09/04/13 10:56 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Nimpo said:
Anything beyond a SAMPLE needs to be paid for.




Yes, but in the legal world, you will need to define how long or of what percentage of a song is a "sample".  That's the crux of the whole argument. 






Quote:

akira_akuma said:
he paid him out of the goodness of his art. he wanted a reparte with one of the Doors personally, so he could clear with him, so that he would be being professional.




What?  Why am I arguing with you.  You don't even believe that Jay Z had to pay The Doors.  So you don't understand the issue.  Let me clue you in.  He could not legally put that song on his album without gaining permission from and giving money to, The Doors. 




Quote:

akira_akuma said:
i will... :lol: go on the internet, and verify that it's my music, if in this crazy dimension that ever happened, and people would know it was mine because i'd show them tracks and/or samples i made the songs with.




It doesn't matter how you made the song or if you made it.  I "sampled" 100% of the song and sold it and made a fortune before you could make everyone aware of it.  No one will buy it from you because it's seen as being my creation.  And you can't sue me because you made the law that said that any artist can sell any amount of another artists intellectual property and get away with it. 




Quote:

akira_akuma said:
no one would be so brazen as to try and do what you're insisting people would do without your silly ass law. no one ever. :lol:

PS: again, whole song as a sample? THAT CAN'T HAPPEN. :lol: how many times must i say this?




No one ever?  Have you seen the internet?  It's all about pushing the envelope as far as possible.  People are fucking crazy.  If people know they can use 100% of an existing song and make money, they're going to do it. 















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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18801502 - 09/04/13 11:00 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

LOL, wrong on all fronts. he didn't have to pay them shit, according to what's fair use, he's just being professional, and he doesn't want to tarnish his name.

i wish i could show you how much you could get away with under fair use laws, but i'd have to have sanctioned a license for an sound installation playing chopped up and re-arranged Doors music, for you to get the point. :lol: if that.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18801514 - 09/04/13 11:04 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

double post, oops.


Edited by akira_akuma (09/04/13 11:10 PM)


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