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Offlinetreesniper119
No one of Consequence
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Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 1,893
Loc: rainbow land
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"The Canadian Problem"
    #18798431 - 09/04/13 09:06 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

http://www.thestarphoenix.com/touch/story.html?id=8843729

TORONTO - A new study sounds a cautionary note for work that is being done to try to develop vaccines to protect against all subtypes of influenza.

The research describes a phenomenon in which vaccination against one strain of flu actually seems to raise the risk of severe infection following exposure to a related but different strain, an effect called vaccine-associated enhanced respiratory disease.

The scientists say it's not currently known why the effect happens. Nor is it clear that it would be seen in other species — this research was done in piglets — or with the kinds of flu vaccines used to protect people. But they suggest the findings should be considered during the development and assessment of experimental universal flu vaccines.

"We need to ask questions and make sure the appropriate experiments and studies are done to ensure this will or will not happen in different vaccine scenarios," one of the senior authors, Dr. Amy Vincent, said in an interview Wednesday.

The study was published by the journal Science Translational Medicine.

Vincent is a research veterinary medical officer for the U.S Department of Agriculture's agriculture research service, based in Ames, Iowa. Her co-authors are also with the USDA or with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.

The authors cautioned against drawing a line between what happened to the pigs in the study and what might happen with people. For one thing, the animals were "naive" — they had never before been exposed to flu viruses or flu vaccines. As well, the study used vaccine made from whole, killed flu viruses. The injectable flu vaccines used to protect people are made from parts of killed flu viruses.

Still, the finding is reminiscent of something that was observed in people in Canada during the 2009 H1N1 pandemic.

Dr. Danuta Skowronski, a flu expert at the B.C. Centre for Disease Control in Vancouver, spotted a surprising and unsettling trend when she looked at data on people in British Columbia who contracted H1N1 in the spring and summer of 2009. People who had received a seasonal flu shot the previous autumn were more likely to contract the new pandemic strain.

Her findings, which were initially dismissed by many in the global influenza research community, were later replicated in studies done in other provinces as well, leading some to dub the phenomenon "the Canadian problem."

Later, Skowronski and colleagues ran an experiment in ferrets that was similar to the work Vincent is now describing, with comparable results.

Asked about Vincent's study, Skowronski said she's been watching results from that group for years, and even cited vaccine-associated enhanced respiratory disease when she was asked by skeptics to describe what might explain her unexpected results in 2009.

"I think ... what they're showing is a biological mechanism that warrants further evaluation in terms of its relevance to the use of seasonal vaccines in humans and what that may mean for the next pandemic threat," Skowronski said.

"It's concerning obviously because if this is the mechanism, then it means there needs to be a lot more ... attention paid to these universal vaccine candidates that are targeting that stalk antibody."

Her comment about the stalk antibodies refers to a popular target for flu vaccines currently in development.

Most flu vaccines aim to stimulate antibodies to the main protein on the outer shell of flu viruses, the hemagglutinin. Shaped like a lollipop, the hemagglutinin is what attaches to the cells a virus is attempting to invade.

It's a frustrating target for flu vaccine designers. There are 17 known hemagglutinins, which give flu viruses the H in their name. (Most don't currently infect people.) The hemagglutinins on H1 viruses look different than those on H3 viruses, and antibodies to one don't protect against another.

Even within a subtype — H1, for instance —there are different strains, and a vaccine against one might offer lots, some or no protection against another. And all these hemagglutinins are constantly changing, which is why flu vaccines have to be updated almost every year.

But these differing and mutating targets are the head of the lollipop. By contrast, the stalk or stem of the protein is relatively unchanged across viruses, a recent discovery that has led to renewed optimism that a universal flu vaccine could actually be made.

"There is a very high enthusiasm in the field right now about the possibility of a universal vaccine," says Dr. James Crowe, a viral immunologist with the Vanderbilt Vaccine Center at Vanderbilt University in Nashville, Tenn.

"The rationale is that if you removed the head, then the stem would be either exposed or just be the dominant protein being presented (to the immune system) and therefore the stem could more frequently induce antibodies and those antibodies are very cross-reactive."

But Vincent's study raises a red flag. She and her colleagues immunized piglets with an H1N2 vaccine, then exposed them to the H1N1 virus that caused the 2009 pandemic. Though both viruses were H1s, they were quite different genetically.

Instead of being protected, the H1N2-vaccinated pigs developed more severe disease than exposed pigs that hadn't been pre-vaccinated. When the researchers tested the blood of the vaccinated pigs, they found high levels of antibodies that attached to the stalk of the H1N1 hemagglutinin, but not to the head of the protein.

Vincent said she and her colleagues are still trying to figure out why this produces more severe disease. But the theory is that while the stalk antibodies can't neutralize or kill the invading viruses, they do bind to them. And that may actually help the viruses enter the cells and multiply to higher levels — the paper calls them "fusion enhancing."

Vincent said her group got its first inkling of this phenomenon about 10 years ago and has done several studies like this one with different pairs of vaccines and viruses, including different H3N2 viruses.

Asked if this mechanism might explain "the Canadian problem," Vincent said more research would need to be done to answer that question. "I think it's not in my area of expertise and I think it's sort of outside of the data that's available. But I certainly think it's a legitimate question to ask."

Skowronski and others suggested the work demonstrates the complexity of influenza immunology — the science of how the viruses interact with immune systems. "The problem is everybody wants influenza to be simple and be like other vaccine-preventable diseases. And it's not," Skowronski said.

Infectious diseases expert Dr. Michael Osterholm said with influenza, there is always a complicated interplay between the virus and the person the virus infects, one that is influenced by what viruses and vaccines the person's immune system has previously encountered.

"I think as we move forward with vaccine for influenza, we need to understand ... the subsequent host-virus interaction with any response we get," said Osterholm, who is director of the Center for Infectious Diseases Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota.

"It really drives home the need to be very cautious about what are we actually accomplishing."

Both Crowe and Osterholm stressed that this phenomenon probably isn't exclusive to vaccination against influenza. Sequential infection with the right — or wrong —combination of flu viruses could also probably trigger this, they said.


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OfflineSillyputty67

Registered: 10/06/12
Posts: 2,239
Loc: Netherlands
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: "The Canadian Problem" *DELETED* [Re: treesniper119]
    #18798702 - 09/04/13 10:48 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Post deleted by Sillyputty67

Reason for deletion: 1



--------------------
1) Everything I ever posted or say is a lie.


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OfflineHardTrippin
The Ambivalent
Male


Registered: 11/05/09
Posts: 1,303
Loc: Canada Flag
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: "The Canadian Problem" [Re: Sillyputty67]
    #18799111 - 09/04/13 12:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

As a Canadian I feel much more strongly about the risks associated with vaccines than any other nationality does.


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OfflineSillyputty67

Registered: 10/06/12
Posts: 2,239
Loc: Netherlands
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: "The Canadian Problem" *DELETED* [Re: HardTrippin]
    #18799182 - 09/04/13 01:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Post deleted by Sillyputty67

Reason for deletion: 1



--------------------
1) Everything I ever posted or say is a lie.


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OfflineCamwritesgonzo
The Unflushable Stool
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Registered: 06/09/12
Posts: 2,333
Loc: On Uranus Flag
Last seen: 5 months, 23 days
Re: "The Canadian Problem" [Re: Sillyputty67] * 3
    #18799462 - 09/04/13 02:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I've said it before and I'll say it again, parents who do not get their kids vaccinated are putting their children and the children of others at risk. That is unless their children are own children are only allowed outside for a half hour a day between prayer services and homeschooling. Seriously though, I understand having a beef with pharmaceutical companies because they're a bunch of greed mongers pushing way too many pills for very easily remedied problems, but vaccines are why kids aren't walking around on crutches from polio anymore. Remember measles? Neither do I. Why? Vaccines!


--------------------
"I've always maintained that reality is for those who can't face drugs."-Tom Waits
"I feel the same way about disco as I feel about herpes."-Hunter S. Thompson
A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?


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Onlineshivas.wisdom
בּ
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,428
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 40 seconds
Re: [Re: Camwritesgonzo]
    #18801947 - 09/05/13 03:22 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

This article is referencing seasonal vaccines, rather than one off immunizations, so why don't you guys lay off the autism, measles, and save the children type stuff.

Also, smallpox has been eradicated in the wild so--barring a biological attack or accident at a research lab--one could say it is almost infinitely more likely that a child will be diagnosed with autism rather than smallpox--they don't even vaccinate for it anymore.


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Invisiblepwnasaurus
Stranger
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 12,317
Loc: Canada Flag
Re: "The Canadian Problem" [Re: HardTrippin]
    #18802548 - 09/05/13 09:11 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

HardTrippin said:
As a Canadian I feel much more strongly about the risks associated with vaccines than any other nationality does.



What does that even mean?  As a Canadian, I assure you that my nationality does not influence my decisions about ANYTHING.


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InvisibleGilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 11,671
Re: "The Canadian Problem" [Re: pwnasaurus]
    #18802678 - 09/05/13 10:07 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)



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Offlinetreesniper119
No one of Consequence
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Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 1,893
Loc: rainbow land
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
Re: "The Canadian Problem" [Re: Sillyputty67]
    #18810811 - 09/07/13 08:47 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

malicom said:
Vaccine hype is rampant right now. Misinformation flourishes. Autism is not linked to vaccination. This new study mentioned above is neat, but still does not have enough validity to warrant not vaccinating your child. If you dont vaccinate your child, the liklihood of them getting and dying from something like polio, or smallpox is of a magnitude of order much greater then ever getting autism.




no, there are associations with mercury (thiomersal) & autism...its pretty much a bad idea to inject heavy toxic metals into the brain where alzheimers parkinsons & autism are all being linked to large amounts of these heavy metals are stored in brain tissue.
also. all these diseases are cureable....

CUREABLE!!!!!

Just recently autism.org reported in 98 people fully recovering from autism within 48 hrs from drinking MMS/CDS made by jim humble.

red cross just cured 100% of 154 malaria cases in uganda within 24-48 hrs after giving this MMS/CDS solution to locals who were infected.

fuck vaccines for a number of reasons thanks very much.

most all major diseases were well on their way out through natural human immunity before vaccines took off.
http://www.google.com/search?client=ms-null&hl=en&source=android-browser-type&v=133247963&ei=5TkrUuiFFaSujALk8IHgAQ&q=autism+cured+MMS&oq=autism+cured+MMS&gs_l=mobile-gws-serp.12..0i22i30.131.8148.0.10118.13.12.0.0.0.0.854.1958.2-1j6-2.3.0....0...1c.1.26.mobile-gws-serp..10.3.1956.4ygEZEgcwag
here are links to autism & malaria cures with redcross & autism.org



http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&redir_esc=&client=ms-null&source=android-browser-type&v=133247963&qsubts=1378564596588&q=redcross+uganda+MMS+malaria+cure&v=133247963


--------------------
Icelander said: I'd like to fund unlimited abortions. Finally some good coming from my tax dollars.

Repetoire89 said: I love abortion and fully condone it - some should make it into a sport.

Treesniper119 said: Any one who is willing to start life & also willing to deny life to their form/seed/child/offspring is cursed.
For you have severed your own cord to lifes worth.
Anyone who condones these actions is cursed as well...



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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
Mycologist
Male User Gallery
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
Last seen: 8 hours, 48 minutes
Re: "The Canadian Problem" (moved) [Re: treesniper119]
    #18811697 - 09/07/13 01:57 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

This thread was moved from Shroomery News Service.

Reason:
Not drug or mushroom related.  Vaccines are not drugs.


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Invisibleabltsandwich
JFK = Jelly Donut
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 06/16/09
Posts: 11,537
Loc: Dildoville Flag
Re: "The Canadian Problem" (moved) [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #18811711 - 09/07/13 02:00 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Too much syrup and milk bags.


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Invisiblepsi
TOAST N' JAM
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613 Flag
Re: "The Canadian Problem" (moved) [Re: abltsandwich]
    #18811719 - 09/07/13 02:06 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

malicom said:
Will any of this help the canucks not be so confused about bacon or ham?

Thats the real problem....

lol




We are not confused about bacon and ham. They're pretty straightforward actually.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
Mycologist
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Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
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Re: "The Canadian Problem" [Re: treesniper119] * 2
    #18811722 - 09/07/13 02:08 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

treesniper119 said:

Just recently autism.org reported in 98 people fully recovering from autism within 48 hrs from drinking MMS/CDS made by jim humble.






Why not just drink bleach?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_Mineral_Supplement


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Female


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
Re: "The Canadian Problem" [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #18811759 - 09/07/13 02:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

treesniper119 said:

Just recently autism.org reported in 98 people fully recovering from autism within 48 hrs from drinking MMS/CDS made by jim humble.






Why not just drink bleach?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_Mineral_Supplement




Holy shit! :uh:


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
Mycologist
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Registered: 03/10/07
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Re: "The Canadian Problem" [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #18811804 - 09/07/13 02:31 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I actually know someone who likes this stuff, and he gave me some a few times, for my health.  I did not know what I was drinking, but it seemed kind of caustic and tasted like bleach.  Luckily a little bleach is not all that harmful....But shameful of them to sell it as medicine.


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OfflineSillyputty67

Registered: 10/06/12
Posts: 2,239
Loc: Netherlands
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: "The Canadian Problem" (moved) *DELETED* [Re: psi]
    #18811816 - 09/07/13 02:35 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Post deleted by Sillyputty67

Reason for deletion: 1



--------------------
1) Everything I ever posted or say is a lie.


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Invisiblepsi
TOAST N' JAM
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613 Flag
Re: "The Canadian Problem" (moved) [Re: Sillyputty67] * 1
    #18811824 - 09/07/13 02:38 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah calling it bacon is kind of a letdown, clearly it is an inferior food to real bacon. Sort of like calling "American cheese" cheese... :lol:


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OfflinePatlal
You ask too many questions
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Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa Flag
Last seen: 2 hours, 37 minutes
Re: "The Canadian Problem" [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #18811865 - 09/07/13 02:48 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

We don't have any problems in Canada. We have issues :snub:


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Female


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
Re: "The Canadian Problem" [Re: Patlal]
    #18811874 - 09/07/13 02:51 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Ugh, that's so... so Europeany of you. :argh:


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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Invisiblerulesq
Bad Mogambo
Male


Registered: 05/10/13
Posts: 5,317
Loc: Суомалиа
Re: "The Canadian Problem" [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #18811877 - 09/07/13 02:53 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

What's wrong with being European :crankey:


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