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InvisibleXlea321
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Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Bush asks for help
    #1879764 - 09/04/03 01:43 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Makes you wonder what happened to the "coalition of the willing"..

Bush asks UN for help in Iraq

Resolution is defeat for hawks in White House

Gary Younge in New York
Thursday September 4, 2003
The Guardian

The Bush administration suffered a humiliating diplomatic climbdown over Iraq yesterday as it presented a draft resolution to the UN, asking for military and financial help to rescue it from the ballooning human, financial and political costs of the occupation.
The draft resolution calls for a security council mandate for a multinational military force, under a unified command and with American commanders ultimately in charge.

The draft will also invite the Iraqi governing council to set out its own timetable for elections which will be administered by the US, and a return to sovereignty.

The Americans hope a UN mandate will pave the way for other states, such as Pakistan, India and Turkey, to contribute troops on the ground to assist with the deteriorating security situation.

"Certainly, the United States will continue to play a dominant role," the secretary of state, Colin Powell, said. "But a dominant role does not mean the only role."

With the Bush administration having sidestepped the UN in order to go to war, the move marks a defeat for the White House, where defence department hawks had dismissed the UN as irrelevant. But the move will nonetheless come under stern criticism from the French, Germans and security council members who have argued that if the international community is going to share the burdens of occupation, it must share the decision-making.

Diplomats expect France to exact a heavy price for agreeing to the resolution. A vote is not expected for several weeks.

"The authority in Iraq should be the UN, as opposed to the occupying powers," said Mexico's UN ambassador, Adolfo Aguilar Zinser, a security council member.

The UN secretary general, Kofi Annan, has made it clear that he does not want UN blue helmets to be deployed in Iraq.

The French also believe that control must be handed over to the Iraqis as soon as possible. "The transfer of responsibility to the Iraqis is something which is a priority," said Jean-Marc de La Sabliere, the French UN ambassador. "On the whole subject we have to move fast, because the situation is deteriorating.

The Americans have made it clear that such power-sharing is not up for negotiation. They point to operations in Bosnia, Kosovo and East Timor as precedents for UN-mandated military operations under a unified command, with a single country in charge.

The US plans to follow up the draft resolution with a diplomatic offensive, with telephone calls to foreign ministers to rally support.

The latest initiative comes primarily in a response to the widespread perception that Washington is losing control of the security situation in Iraq, prompted by the recent bombings by Iraqi insurgents of a senior Shia cleric, the UN's offices in Baghdad and the Jordanian embassy.

It is a view compounded by domestic concerns that America's military forces are being stretched too thin, the daily increase in US military casualties and the huge cost of the occupation in the runup to US elections next year. A congressional study released yesterday showed that the US army lacks the active-duty troops to sustain the occupation past next March without either receiving help from other states, calling on other services and reserves, or spending vastly more money.

At present the army operates a rotation system where a unit serves in Iraq for six months to a year before returning home for rest and training. The report shows that, given its commitments in Afghanistan, Kosovo, Bosnia and South Korea, the Pentagon does not have enough personnel to keep that up.

"The need to maintain levels of training and readiness, limit family separation and ... retain high quality personnel would most likely constrain the US occupation force to be smaller than its current size," it says.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1035366,00.html


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Bush asks for help [Re: Xlea321]
    #1880203 - 09/04/03 04:02 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I think they're thinking that if they help Iraq then they're just helping us clean up before the next war.


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: Bush asks for help [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1880254 - 09/04/03 04:40 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Ah well at least we keep some of the oil.. (j/k)

I think Britain is considering sending more troops, not sure about the number. A letter from the Foreign Secretary leaked to the press reportedly says something like

Quote:


"there needs to be a visible, physical improvement [In Iraq] within 6 weeks"




As a supposed reason for strengthening our forces. I think the situation will improve and other countries contributing troops will help to calm the situation but I doubt it will halt guerilla attacks altogether. Im sure there will have to be an incentive for the other countries to get involved though.


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Offlineshakta
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Re: Bush asks for help [Re: Xlea321]
    #1880483 - 09/04/03 09:02 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

That article, as usual from the Guardian, is totally slanted. This does not mark a defeat of any type. The UN is not going to be sending bluehats in to do anything. This will just open the door for more countries to contribute soldiers and moneys to the rebuilding of Iraq.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Bush asks for help [Re: shakta]
    #1880706 - 09/04/03 11:35 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

But where are the coalition of the willing shak? Why does he have to go crawling on his belly to the UN after "dissing" them 6 months?


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Offlineshakta
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Re: Bush asks for help [Re: Xlea321]
    #1880721 - 09/04/03 11:40 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

They are in Iraq right now, and you know this. Polish troops are actually responsible for much of central and south Iraq now. No one 'crawled on their belly' to anyone. This is just a way for other countries that want to help in the rebuilding effort to do so. Some of the countries that want to help are leary to do so without a UN resolution. I fully expected your illogical rhetoric to come out on this issue.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Bush asks for help [Re: shakta]
    #1880725 - 09/04/03 11:43 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

So why didn't he invite the UN in 5 months ago?


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: Bush asks for help [Re: Xlea321]
    #1880726 - 09/04/03 11:43 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

The coalition of the willing was composed of countries that were willing to support the invasion of Iraq to topple Saddam's regime. Now that has been accomplished more international support is needed to help stabilise and rebuild the country. Isn't that the point of the United Nations?


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Bush asks for help [Re: shakta]
    #1880733 - 09/04/03 11:46 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I think Alex's point is that Bush and Blair made a big deal out of the so called coalition of the willing but if it was such a big deal why does Bush now need to go and ask for more help. Exageration( a nice way of saying lie) seems to be the common denominator in alot of this whole debacle.

BTW I love your spin that what this is about is Bush saying come on if you want a chance to be a part of the wonderful success story in Iraq then your welcome. We dont need you we're just being nice!

Gimme a break.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Bush asks for help [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #1880735 - 09/04/03 11:46 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

So the UN exists to help out countries who have blatantly defied it and invaded a country when they find occupation isn't as easy as they thought?

I hope not.

If the UN has total and complete control of Iraq then perhaps it should go in. But to go in so more UN troops get killed and less americans just to improve Bush's election chances seems a little cynical.


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Offlineshakta
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Re: Bush asks for help [Re: GazzBut]
    #1880739 - 09/04/03 11:47 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

My 'spin' never said anything like that. So quit putting words in my mouth when I have not said them.


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Offlineshakta
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Re: Bush asks for help [Re: Xlea321]
    #1880752 - 09/04/03 11:53 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

There are not going to be any UN troops. The resolution does not call for any UN troops. Read this slowly. OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE EXPRESSED INTEREST WITH HELPING IN IRAQ, BUT THEY WANT A UN RESOLUTION PASSED BEFORE THEY DO.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Bush asks for help *DELETED* [Re: shakta]
    #1880755 - 09/04/03 11:54 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Did you read the article?


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Offlineshakta
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Re: Bush asks for help [Re: Xlea321]
    #1880756 - 09/04/03 11:55 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Yes I have read several articles on it. No bluehats are being requested. Read this part again if you will.

Quote:

The Americans hope a UN mandate will pave the way for other states, such as Pakistan, India and Turkey, to contribute troops on the ground to assist with the deteriorating security situation.




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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: Bush asks for help [Re: Xlea321]
    #1880760 - 09/04/03 11:55 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

So the UN exists to help out countries who have blatantly defied it and invaded a country when they find occupation isn't as easy as they thought?




Where did I say that?, perhaps you should re-read my post. You have taken to seperate points and obviously confused the two.


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The punishment which the wise suffer, who refuse to take part in government, is to live under the government of worse men.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Bush asks for help [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #1880765 - 09/04/03 11:58 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

My apologies  :laugh: 


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Anonymous

Re: Bush asks for help [Re: shakta]
    #1880834 - 09/04/03 12:30 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

shakta said:
That article, as usual from the Guardian, is totally slanted. This does not mark a defeat of any type. The UN is not going to be sending bluehats in to do anything. This will just open the door for more countries to contribute soldiers and moneys to the rebuilding of Iraq. 




Yes.  From what I have read in this forum I think the Guardian must be the british version of our National Enquirer.  :rolleyes: 


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Bush asks for help [Re: ]
    #1880898 - 09/04/03 01:06 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Yes. From what I have read in this forum I think the Guardian must be the british version of our National Enquirer.




Its amazing what some people believe! The Guardian is one of the most highly respected papers in the UK. Could your view be somehow prejudiced by the fact that Alex reads it?


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Offlineshakta
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Re: Bush asks for help [Re: GazzBut]
    #1880931 - 09/04/03 01:20 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

It has nothing to do with Alex, but more likely the fact that it's articles are always completely biased. This is much like the LA and NY Times in this country.


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Anonymous

Re: Bush asks for help [Re: GazzBut]
    #1880954 - 09/04/03 01:28 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

It has nothing to do with Alex but the articles he has posted from it have been some of the most distorted journalism (if you could call it that) I have ever read in my life.

Nothing against you or your posts btw. :smile:

Some people respect the CommunistNewsNetwork too but that doesn't mean anything to me either.


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