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Offlinezzripz
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Registered: 12/23/08
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Re: I've hit a wall [Re: endogenous]
    #18771891 - 08/29/13 05:27 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:
Quote:

zzripz said:
Quote:

endogenous said:
It is my belief that everyone has everything.

These days people think that you're born homosexual -- I think that everyone is born with the ability to be into it - and probably most people have experienced it when they were young.

So, it's a choice to be into it or not when you're older.




Can YOU choose to not be heterosexual...?




Yes.




So you mean that as well as being able to be sexually interested in a female, you can choose to be sexually interested in a male and have sex?
Has this actually happened in your life?


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Offlineeve69
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Re: I've hit a wall [Re: zzripz]
    #18771925 - 08/29/13 05:54 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
Quote:

endogenous said:
It is my belief that everyone has everything.

These days people think that you're born homosexual -- I think that everyone is born with the ability to be into it - and probably most people have experienced it when they were young.

So, it's a choice to be into it or not when you're older.




Can YOU choose to not be heterosexual...?




Regardless of whether there's a genetic element to sexuality, there is always a time when one must choose their identity. As a kid I had adults play with my thing, and I had to finally say, never again my same sex. I made a choice and never looked back. The idea that you're born gay is probably correct in one out of a thousand. I wasn't abused so much as lived near the street as a punkrocker and many of my friends turned tricks. And also, I had to decide to have sex with my own age group. I chose exery aspect of my sexuality. I don't blame the adults. They were just marks themselves.


--------------------
...or something







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Offlineendogenous
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Re: I've hit a wall [Re: zzripz]
    #18772909 - 08/29/13 12:37 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
So you mean that as well as being able to be sexually interested in a female, you can choose to be sexually interested in a male and have sex?
Has this actually happened in your life?




It had been happening. But I started to realize that there was something wrong and so I stopped being into homosexuality.


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: I've hit a wall [Re: endogenous]
    #18775906 - 08/30/13 02:21 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:
Quote:

zzripz said:
So you mean that as well as being able to be sexually interested in a female, you can choose to be sexually interested in a male and have sex?
Has this actually happened in your life?




It had been happening. But I started to realize that there was something wrong and so I stopped being into homosexuality.





Well if that is so, I think you may be bisexual, but you are suppressing your desire for males because of your judgement of being gay must mean it's wrong.


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OfflineSse
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Re: I've hit a wall [Re: endogenous]
    #18776905 - 08/30/13 11:06 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Nothing wrong with sex with a man or female or both. As long as you are happy.


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


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Offlineendogenous
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Re: I've hit a wall [Re: Sse]
    #18777287 - 08/30/13 01:13 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
Well if that is so, I think you may be bisexual, but you are suppressing your desire for males because of your judgement of being gay must mean it's wrong.




Quote:

Sse said:
Nothing wrong with sex with a man or female or both. As long as you are happy.




I believe that homosexuality is wrong. I also believe that ingesting cocaine, alcohol, opiates, etc., is wrong. But I believe that people should be free to do them.


Edited by endogenous (08/30/13 01:16 PM)


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: I've hit a wall [Re: endogenous]
    #18780127 - 08/31/13 02:14 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:
Quote:

zzripz said:
Well if that is so, I think you may be bisexual, but you are suppressing your desire for males because of your judgement of being gay must mean it's wrong.




Quote:

Sse said:
Nothing wrong with sex with a man or female or both. As long as you are happy.




I believe that homosexuality is wrong. I also believe that ingesting cocaine, alcohol, opiates, etc., is wrong. But I believe that people should be free to do them.




so in other words you believe that pretending to be heterosexual when you are deep down gay is wrong, right?


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Offlineendogenous
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Re: I've hit a wall [Re: zzripz]
    #18784667 - 09/01/13 10:16 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
so in other words you believe that pretending to be heterosexual when
you are deep down gay is wrong, right?




I believe that everyone is "deep down" a homosexual -- and heterosexual also.

I also believe that thinking you are homosexual just because you could be homosexual is brainwashing.

Humans have many things that they could be that they aren't because they believe it is wrong. People could be murderers, rapists, thieves, etc. These are all things that are "deep-down" in the mind. Does that mean that humans are "pretending" to be non-violent when they are deep down murderers?


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


Edited by endogenous (09/01/13 11:08 AM)


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: I've hit a wall [Re: endogenous]
    #18785133 - 09/01/13 12:38 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:
Quote:

zzripz said:
so in other words you believe that pretending to be heterosexual when
you are deep down gay is wrong, right?




I believe that everyone is "deep down" a homosexual -- and heterosexual also.

I also believe that thinking you are homosexual just because you could be homosexual is brainwashing.

Humans have many things that they could be that they aren't because they believe it is wrong. People could be murderers, rapists, thieves, etc. These are all things that are "deep-down" in the mind. Does that mean that humans are "pretending" to be non-violent when they are deep down murderers?




hmmmm. strange. I dont know if I understand you or not lol

First stence you SEEM to be saying everyone deep down is bisexual?

For me IF you bisexual you are, and if your not your not. You cannot pretend to be. If you are just into guys and a naked woman jumped in you would freak out, and same for the hetero couple. if you were bi you would love that

Your 2nd sentence~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ don't understand

3rd, yes we can be murderers and rapists, and many of us actually think these things but do not see them through--so if your aware of thinking eg I could kill him, it is conscious and not deep down isn't it?
Quote:

Does that mean that humans are "pretending" to be non-violent when they are deep down murderers?


IF you think it does that make you a murderer? Not really. Thinking it is allowing that part of you. I would fear suppressing such thoughts because they may BURST out as action one day.

But you cannot pretend to be gay. IF you fancy dick you fancy dick. etc. If you fancy pussy, the same. if you fancy both that is how it is for you. Your not pretending. I felt I HAD to pretend when I was growing up to fancy girls, so I know what I am talking about. I even pretended in a way to myself. That can fuck you up and this is a big reason I am very against homophobia.


Edited by zzripz (09/01/13 12:40 PM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: I've hit a wall [Re: endogenous]
    #18785543 - 09/01/13 02:25 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:
Quote:

zzripz said:
so in other words you believe that pretending to be heterosexual when
you are deep down gay is wrong, right?




I believe that everyone is "deep down" a homosexual -- and heterosexual also.

I also believe that thinking you are homosexual just because you could be homosexual is brainwashing.

Humans have many things that they could be that they aren't because they believe it is wrong. People could be murderers, rapists, thieves, etc. These are all things that are "deep-down" in the mind. Does that mean that humans are "pretending" to be non-violent when they are deep down murderers?




The psyche is like 'Schrödinger's cat,' all possibilities exist in potentia. It is erroneous to think of these possibilities and posit that such-and-such is what we 'really' are at bottom. This is where the wisdom of Forrest Gump comes in: "Stupid is, as stupid does." Possibilities become actualities in space-time. I am not a murderer until I commit murder. One cannot be a homosexual and a heterosexual in actuality. Schrödinger's cat is either dead OR alive in actuality, the paradox of being both dead AND alive only exists in potentiality.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlineendogenous
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Re: I've hit a wall [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18787084 - 09/01/13 09:10 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:One cannot be a homosexual and a heterosexual in actuality.




Actually, good and evil, God and Satan, exist in our bodies at the same time.

The more Conscious a person becomes (the closer they get to God, Entheogens), the more they see that. God is the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil.

St. Paul calls the good side his "true self" since he restrains his "unspiritual self" from acting out its desires. He calls himself "an ambassador in chains".

(Romans 7,14):  The Law, of course, as we all know, is spiritual, but part of me is unspiritual.  I have been sold as a slave to sin.  I cannot understand my own behavior.  I fail to carry out the things I want to do, and find myself doing the very things I reject. When I act against my own will, that means I have a self that acknowledges that the Law is good, and so the thing behaving in that way is not my self but sin living in me.
    The fact is, I know of nothing good living in my unspiritual self for though the will to do what is good is in me, the performance is often not, with the result that instead of doing the good things I want to do, I carry out the sinful things I do not want.  When I act against my will, then, it is not my true self doing it, but sin which lives in me.  In fact, this seems to be the law:  that many times when I want to do good it is something evil that comes to hand.  In my inmost self I dearly love God's Law, but I can see that my flesh follows a different law that battles against the Law which my Reason dictates.  This is what makes me a prisoner of the law of sin which lives inside my body. 
    Who will rescue me from the body of this death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 
    In short, it is I who with my Reason serve the Law of God, and no less I who serve in my unspiritual self the law of sin







--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: I've hit a wall [Re: endogenous]
    #18787209 - 09/01/13 09:32 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Always live by what makes you and others happy

that is the true self, true self is happiness everyday, follow what makes you happy

Share the love, because in the moment getting costs, giving is free
(giving is better than receiving)

Good and evil is in all of us all the time, but the evil we can chose not to participate in (observe thoughts/desires/emotions , realize that they are not who you are, see they do no good to you/others often, living as desires creates frustration/worries/attachment)

So I agree with St Paul it seems :-)

Desire is not our friend, it must be moderated/removed, and we all know it :-)

Meditation is key, nature / doing what you love at all times works too
and avoiding stress

Great truths in that quote you just made :-)


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: I've hit a wall [Re: endogenous]
    #18787255 - 09/01/13 09:41 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:
The more Conscious a person becomes (the closer they get to God, Entheogens), the more they see that. God is the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil.






Not sure about god is the tree of knowledge though

God is love to me

and no knowledge, (no thoughts)  to experience the love

knowing nothing , experiencing
only knowing when needed

knowledge often gets us further from god I think


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: I've hit a wall [Re: endogenous]
    #18788157 - 09/02/13 03:16 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:
Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:One cannot be a homosexual and a heterosexual in actuality.




Actually, good and evil, God and Satan, exist in our bodies at the same time.

The more Conscious a person becomes (the closer they get to God, Entheogens), the more they see that. God is the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil.

St. Paul calls the good side his "true self" since he restrains his "unspiritual self" from acting out its desires. He calls himself "an ambassador in chains".

(Romans 7,14):  The Law, of course, as we all know, is spiritual, but part of me is unspiritual.  I have been sold as a slave to sin.  I cannot understand my own behavior.  I fail to carry out the things I want to do, and find myself doing the very things I reject. When I act against my own will, that means I have a self that acknowledges that the Law is good, and so the thing behaving in that way is not my self but sin living in me.
    The fact is, I know of nothing good living in my unspiritual self for though the will to do what is good is in me, the performance is often not, with the result that instead of doing the good things I want to do, I carry out the sinful things I do not want.  When I act against my will, then, it is not my true self doing it, but sin which lives in me.  In fact, this seems to be the law:  that many times when I want to do good it is something evil that comes to hand.  In my inmost self I dearly love God's Law, but I can see that my flesh follows a different law that battles against the Law which my Reason dictates.  This is what makes me a prisoner of the law of sin which lives inside my body. 
    Who will rescue me from the body of this death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 
    In short, it is I who with my Reason serve the Law of God, and no less I who serve in my unspiritual self the law of sin










'St Paul' and his inner battle between the 'Flesh' and the 'Law' is grim to me, and makes me shudder. I sense there evil. I see there the countless kids who have been brought up in utterly joyless households by parents who believe such a divide-and-control dogma as comes from the likes of St Paul and Christianity. Because that is exactly what it is--DIVIDE and CONTROL at a very deep personal level.


Look, when you begin looking deeply at how elites, the 'masters' try and control their 'slaves', you keep seeing their major strategy of divide and control. And what they have done with these patriarchal stories or myths is bring this strategy internally so that the victim feels literally divided from their own body and nature, and thus they are unsteady (juddering/anxious/fearful) and in constant turmoil---distrusting themselves, AND fixing their allegiance to......? To 'God' and what does this 'God' represent, the 'Law', and what is this 'Law' in allegiance with? The State! BECAUSE OF FEAR, and that is the point of their strategy! See how it works? If the 'God/author-ity/State can divide you from your self, this means you are a shuddering wreck who is easily manipulated, because you are not whole, and are dependent on their authority. You fear and are divided from your body and nature, and also the natural world, because remember that myth blames the natural world for sin, calling it 'fallen'. So they psychologically cut you off from your own nature, and the natural world, and the other species.

And the trouble continues, because when the culture supposedly casts all this religious dogma off, because it has not really been resolved (examined, and deeply seen through) it goes unconscious and acts out from their social-controlling institutions like Psychiatry, where masturbation became a "mental illness", as did "homosexuality" etc etc. So again we see the divide and control strategy continuing, right?


Edited by zzripz (09/02/13 03:21 AM)


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Offlinelolwut
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Re: I've hit a wall [Re: zzripz]
    #18788195 - 09/02/13 03:30 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

And the trouble continues, because when the culture supposedly casts all this religious dogma off, because it has not really been resolved (examined, and deeply seen through) it goes unconscious and acts out from their social-controlling institutions like Psychiatry, where masturbation became a "mental illness", as did "homosexuality" etc etc. So again we see the divide and control strategy continuing, right?




That makes me consider the boss/worker relationship, and how it's taken as read that the boss has the power to instill fear, try to force respect, are allowed to be absolute smart-asses, can literally reduce people to almost tears and get away with it, while the worker feels shaken and feels the need to just do more and more and more work to try to get the boss to stop it while the boss sees that they now "own" the worker so force them to try even harder ad infinitum. I'd like to hear your take on this


--------------------
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OfflineLysergicX7
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Re: I've hit a wall [Re: lolwut]
    #18788725 - 09/02/13 08:50 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Life is full of ups and downs dude. They are not negative, they are just learning experiences allowing you to evolve and get a more clear picture of your life. It's how you grow and evolve dude, embrace it.


--------------------
“Everybody is fundamentally, the ultimate reality. Not god in the political kingly sense, but god in the sense of being the self – the deep down basic whatever there is. And you’re all that… only you’re pretending you’re not.” -Alan Watts

I think that in human evolution it has never been as necessary to have this substance LSD. It is just a tool to turn us into what we are supposed to be.”
― Albert Hofmann


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: I've hit a wall [Re: lolwut]
    #18788884 - 09/02/13 09:41 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

lolwut said:
Quote:

And the trouble continues, because when the culture supposedly casts all this religious dogma off, because it has not really been resolved (examined, and deeply seen through) it goes unconscious and acts out from their social-controlling institutions like Psychiatry, where masturbation became a "mental illness", as did "homosexuality" etc etc. So again we see the divide and control strategy continuing, right?




That makes me consider the boss/worker relationship, and how it's taken as read that the boss has the power to instill fear, try to force respect, are allowed to be absolute smart-asses, can literally reduce people to almost tears and get away with it, while the worker feels shaken and feels the need to just do more and more and more work to try to get the boss to stop it while the boss sees that they now "own" the worker so force them to try even harder ad infinitum. I'd like to hear your take on this




Yes that is like a micro scenario of the macro scenario--the big myths that control millions through the generations. it is the same design--the master/slave hierarchy

The bos has the power to take away you money. If he does you lose your home, you may starve, you may have kids you need to support and od and on, and he then can fuck with you cause he feels he has the power.
With the 'God' it is even 'after death' the threat continues, because you are guilted that if you don't obey then this means EVER-LASTING punishment in "Hell"! So if the 'police' don't get you in this life they well when yer dead.

So you can see a similar theme between the small scene and the larger manipulations.

Also with this comes the victim-perpetrator syndrome. This is exampled in the battered wife scenario where the husband batters her, and takes away all her confidence and has her like a shuddering wreck, especially when he comes into her space, BUT often she will defend him to others, and believe she loves him and can change him and/or that she must deserve the abuse she's getting. This pattern is also part of the Christian religious abuse where peoples who have been taken over by that belief system end up defending it, and pushing it on their kids----so the abuse goes down the line.

In sexuality often people who have suffered abuse psychologically transfer this into their sexual identity and you get the S&M trip where people will 'choose' to be submissive to a 'master/sadist' for sexual gratification, and so go to extremes in this!


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Offlineendogenous
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Re: I've hit a wall [Re: zzripz]
    #18797044 - 09/03/13 10:38 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

It seems that you are thinking that the "Law" that St. Paul is talking about is the same "law" that the "Jews" of his time considered to be the law.

But that wasn't the case then, and it's still not the case.

The "Law" that St. Paul is talking about is the Law of Reason. That is very different from the worldly law -- which was actually the law of sin.

St. Paul wrote: We would have been justified by the Law if the Law we were given had been capable of giving life, but it is not: scripture makes no exceptions when it says that sin is master everywhere. -- Galatians 3, 21


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


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