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Invisiblerackem
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Registered: 11/27/09
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why dont we make synthetic gasoline?
    #18797040 - 09/03/13 10:38 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

if humans can make synthetic oil, why not just make synthetic gasoline?

wouldnt it cure alot of this oil hunger?


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Invisibleluvdemboomers
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Registered: 01/11/13
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Re: why dont we make synthetic gasoline? [Re: rackem]
    #18797057 - 09/03/13 10:41 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I'm pretty sure synthetic oil still comes from crude oil.


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: why dont we make synthetic gasoline? [Re: luvdemboomers]
    #18797064 - 09/03/13 10:42 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

You would probably need more energy to create the chemical bonds than would be released by those bonds.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: why dont we make synthetic gasoline? [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #18797087 - 09/03/13 10:47 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
You would probably need more energy to create the chemical bonds than would be released by those bonds.




Bingo.

According to the laws of thermodynamics, it is impossible to find a more efficient fuel.

That said, there is some capitalist bullshit involved. The sun pounds the entire planet with a massive amount of energy every day, and the technology theoretically exists to put a massive solar battery in orbit that would beam its energy down to earth via microwaves. This would certainly replace the need for oil if the necessary technology were thoroughly implemented.

Why don't we ever hear about this? Probably because social stratification is thoroughly enjoyed by those who have the money to spare for such an endeavor.


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Invisibleabltsandwich
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Re: why dont we make synthetic gasoline? [Re: rackem]
    #18797092 - 09/03/13 10:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Thermal Depolymerization, yo.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: why dont we make synthetic gasoline? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #18797110 - 09/03/13 10:53 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:

Why don't we ever hear about this? Probably because social stratification is thoroughly enjoyed by those who have the money to spare for such an endeavor.



do you mean to say that an inanimate object, or idea, makes this possible? i thought people might just be able to do it themselves you without needing money.


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Invisiblerackem
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Re: why dont we make synthetic gasoline? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #18797117 - 09/03/13 10:55 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

man i dont even feel smart enough to come up with a question.

in other words it would take 10 pounds of shit to produce a 5 pound bag when it would come down to synthetic gasoline?


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: why dont we make synthetic gasoline? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18797135 - 09/03/13 10:59 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

It takes a lot of money to put things in orbit, and it would furthermore take a lot of money to retrofit existing technology to work with microwaves from outer space instead of locally-generated current conveyed by a thoroughly established (and very lucratively maintained) grid of wires.

A lot of wage workers are being put out of work by technological advances. They're not too happy. But just imagine the stink energy tycoons would put up.


--------------------
Enlil said:
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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: why dont we make synthetic gasoline? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #18797140 - 09/03/13 11:00 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

meh, money doesn't do anything but put people in motion cause they're lives are too stupid and meaningless for them to do anything about anything themselves with incentive.

hence = shitty world with shitty non-solutions to even shittier problems we create out of thin air.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: why dont we make synthetic gasoline? [Re: rackem] * 1
    #18797145 - 09/03/13 11:02 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

rackem said:
man i dont even feel smart enough to come up with a question.

in other words it would take 10 pounds of shit to produce a 5 pound bag when it would come down to synthetic gasoline?




Plants harvest energy from the sun, and carbon from the air, to make organic substances. These substances are too stable to effectively burn for fuel. However, if you let them sit under pressure for millions of years, they get broken down to the point where they are volatile and unstable. At this point they can be burned for fuel, and their energy is released into cars, airplanes, generators, what have you.

We're basically bottom feeders.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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Offlinekinkaku
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Re: why dont we make synthetic gasoline? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #18797769 - 09/04/13 02:15 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

dont worry when the world runs out of crude oil there will be the "next best thing" and if not it will probably be hydrogen again:shrug:


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InvisibleLegend
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Re: why dont we make synthetic gasoline? [Re: kinkaku]
    #18797772 - 09/04/13 02:18 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

If the world worked together money wouldn't even be a problem.

It's some bullshit that we worry about money on a global scale.


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Offlinekinkaku
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Re: why dont we make synthetic gasoline? [Re: kinkaku]
    #18797774 - 09/04/13 02:18 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

also the future of power is in fusion technology, then cold fusion if you believe in it,then antimatter reactors once they figure out how to collct it from space.


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Offlinekinkaku
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Re: why dont we make synthetic gasoline? [Re: Legend]
    #18797775 - 09/04/13 02:19 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Legend said:
If the world worked together money wouldn't even be a problem.

It's some bullshit that we worry about money on a global scale.




are you suggesting.......railroad bonds?:lmafo:


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InvisibleLegend
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Re: why dont we make synthetic gasoline? [Re: kinkaku]
    #18797776 - 09/04/13 02:20 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

We don't even know what anti matter is. It's just what they call the unknown extra gravity we can't explain


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Offlinekinkaku
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Re: why dont we make synthetic gasoline? [Re: Legend]
    #18797780 - 09/04/13 02:23 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

eh, it was something I ended up reading:shrug: something about large amounts of it collect in saturns rings or something. and an antimatter reactor is estemated to outproduce a fusion reactor by as much as 500% or something like that.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: why dont we make synthetic gasoline? [Re: kinkaku]
    #18797782 - 09/04/13 02:23 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I would argue the future of power is in renewable energy.


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InvisibleLegend
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Re: why dont we make synthetic gasoline? [Re: Shroomism] * 1
    #18797783 - 09/04/13 02:24 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Renewable is a controversial term though. Elaborate?


--------------------
No sympathy for the devil, keep that in mind.
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]Buy the ticket, take the ride. [/url]
Are you lost?


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Offlinekinkaku
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Re: why dont we make synthetic gasoline? [Re: Shroomism]
    #18797790 - 09/04/13 02:30 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
I would argue the future of power is in renewable energy.




fusion reactors are (in a sense) renewable energy that is nuclear power specific. as in you can use fusion reactors to breed tritium by making it come in contact with lithium.

but you're right i'd much rather see a feild of windmills than a nuclear power plant:thumbup:


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Offlinekinkaku
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Re: why dont we make synthetic gasoline? [Re: kinkaku]
    #18797791 - 09/04/13 02:31 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

kinkaku said:
Quote:

Shroomism said:
I would argue the future of power is in renewable energy.




fusion reactors are (in a sense) renewable energy that is nuclear power specific. as in you can use fusion reactors to breed tritium by making it come in contact with lithium.

but you're right i'd much rather see a field of windmills than a nuclear power plant:thumbup:




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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: why dont we make synthetic gasoline? [Re: Legend] * 1
    #18797800 - 09/04/13 02:42 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Solar, wind, geothermal, hydro, biomass, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy

Solar technology alone has made ridiculous advances in efficiency in the past 10 years.

I like driving from Socal out to Joshua Tree, you always pass this massive fucking Windmill farm in the middle of the desert, there's thousands of giant ones

Also check this shit out
http://www.solarroadways.com/intro.shtml

Now that's a fucking vision. Solar roadways would solve numerous problems all in one.
And this is just the tip of the iceberg


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: why dont we make synthetic gasoline? [Re: Shroomism]
    #18797824 - 09/04/13 03:03 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Why don't we ever hear about this?



Because you're talking to the wrong people or reading the wrong literature, web pages, etc. There's a fuckload of research being done right now into things like syngas and Fisher-Tropsch processing (put them together and you can make oil from water and CO2, adding lots of energy in several process steps).

The big question is how interesting it is in terms of economics and energy balance to make synthetic oil. For niche applications, sure, but for the bulk of the requirement of our energy system (i.e. heating, movement, light), there are more energy-efficient options available that 'plug in' more directly to sustainable energy sources.

Quote:

Shroomism said:
I would argue the future of power is in renewable energy.



There's very little argument in that; it's already a moot point.


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: why dont we make synthetic gasoline? [Re: koraks]
    #18797830 - 09/04/13 03:05 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Btw, when I say 'research', I don't mean fundamental research either. I'm talking about demonstration projects and pilot plants. Things that are really close to wide-scale implementation. Or, as in the case of Fisher-Tropsch, that are already being implemented on a substantial scale.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: why dont we make synthetic gasoline? [Re: koraks]
    #18798535 - 09/04/13 09:50 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not too excited about anything that gets done with natural gas, TBH. I was talking about orbiting solar batteries, not synthesis of the shitty fuel we already have.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



Edited by Sophistic Radiance (09/04/13 09:59 AM)


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Invisibleluvdemboomers
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Re: why dont we make synthetic gasoline? [Re: kinkaku]
    #18798930 - 09/04/13 11:59 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

kinkaku said:
dont worry when the world runs out of crude oil there will be the "next best thing" and if not it will probably be hydrogen again:shrug:



I could still see hydrogen in our future. Yes, it takes more energy to create hydrogen than you get out of it BUT that energy doesn't have to come from an internal combustion engine. It could be nuclear, solar, wind, etc


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: why dont we make synthetic gasoline? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #18798946 - 09/04/13 12:02 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

You're missing the point. You can synthesize methane from sustainable energy sources and then ft it into liquids. The Pearl plant demonstrates the viability of the second part of the process. You really need to adopt a systems perspective when it comes to understanding energy.


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Offlinerew736
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Re: why dont we make synthetic gasoline? [Re: koraks] * 1
    #18799063 - 09/04/13 12:39 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I heard of a system where liquid hydrogen (fuel) cools wires till they're superconductive. That way you can pump fuel to people and use it's inherent properties to move electricity with almost no loss. I think geothermal is nice for domestic use, but I see no applications for it in electricity generation. Solar is nice, but I am concerned with the efficiency. Also they take up lots of space. Wind is just ugly and large in my opinion. The windmills also screw with radar, are loud, and kill birds. I think -IF- fusion is a possibility, especially cold fusion, it would be amazing. Antimatter I don't think will work, because you need TONS of power to use magnetic containment. Also I see no source of antimatter... :2cents:


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Offlineincubescence
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Re: why dont we make synthetic gasoline? [Re: rew736]
    #18799101 - 09/04/13 12:52 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Synthetic gasoline is possible...  But most of the time it is more efficient to generate energy to take load off of the continuously running coal and nuclear based power plants.  It's about the application and use that you need for the energy, and it's always ideal to use it in its most unrefined form, i.e. if you're going to use solar power to heat your water, you would not make it produce steam(or make it electrically heat the water). you'd make it produce 140deg water and then insulate the thermal mass.

Some windmills were proposed a looong time ago that were supposed to operate offshore in the ocean and use the saltwater to produce anhydrous ammonia as an "energy storage" option.  they would then take this to shore and blend it with waste vegetable oil to produce a light biofuel much like gasoline.  but production of this biofuel is largely limited to supply of waste vegetable oil.

By the way, the guy that invented diesel power used vegetable oil biofuel, and the technology was adapted to petroleum products.

Any extra anhydrous ammonia could be easily sold as fertilizer, too, as this is a much needed chemical for boosting the nitrogen supply.


Edited by incubescence (09/04/13 12:53 PM)


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Offlinekinkaku
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Re: why dont we make synthetic gasoline? [Re: incubescence]
    #18799287 - 09/04/13 01:38 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

[quoteI think -IF- fusion is a possibility]


they just installed one of the first fusion reactors:thumbup: it works via a tokamak and uses way more power than it creats but thats to be expected in the early stages:shrug: also I hear if tokamaks have a melt down they blow up and will rain molten metal (most likely radioactive at that point) down on the surrounding land:shrug:

aren't scientist working on a feul created by algea?


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