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OfflineMush4Brains
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Registered: 07/31/13
Posts: 4,419
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18795449 - 09/03/13 05:28 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

So sez you without one shred of evidence




The FSA is 80k strong.  You really think Al Nursa outnumber them?
Where is your evidence, Zappa?  Once again, actual journalism, not your beloved "commentators."

I'll start with actual journalism.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/freedom-fighters-cannibals-the-truth-about-syrias-rebels-8662618.html

You can see that although many are looking for an Islamist government, that doesn't mean they are al-Qaeda affiliated. As of right now, your "al nursa and pals" comment is making up maybe 25% MAXIMUM of the fighters against Assad (and that is being very generous).


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: Lion]
    #18795527 - 09/03/13 05:42 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Lion said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
She is spot on.  You are not.


So you agree with her assessment that the conflict in Syria is a centuries-old internal struggle between radical violent Islamists and a murderous dictatorial regime?[/quote}Yes[quote}

Quote:

So sez you without one shred of evidence


The Free Syrian Army has 80,000 fighters.  Do you think there are any terrorist organizations out there that have 80,000 fighters?


 

Yes
Quote:




Quote:

Secular governments had existed in the Muslim world since the 10th century. According to the scholar Ira M. Lapidus:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_secularism

Piss off.


Nice job.  You've pulled out a Wiki article that says nothing about any conflicts between "secular dictators" and "religious dictators", and which does not refer to any pre-20th century secular states by name.  The only pre-20th century mention is of the rulers of some early Caliphates.  Yes, when I think Caliphate, I think secular dictatorship battling radical violent Islamists!


:facepalm:

There most certainly is a centuries old struggle between the priest class and the political secular class..  She is right and you are a kneejerk hater


--------------------


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #18795573 - 09/03/13 05:55 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Ive heard that Al Qaeda in Iraq has less then 400 operatives in Syria, mostly training cadres. Al Nusra front is large too, but their are others, 25% sounds about right.

Also Assad has terrorists he supports as well, Hezbollah, Peoples front for the Liberation of Palestine,Hezbollah probably responsible for the assassination of Rafiq Hariri in Lebanon.

Although groups under the Syrian Liberation Front, do preach a salafist/al-ikwhan type of political doctrine,but they are also much different then Jabhat al Nusra, or Ahrar al Sham. They are moderate enough in their ideologies to be able to pursue a democratic Syria in which all religions are accepted, Syria is a country that has been much spared by ethnic clashes, Druze,Kurds,Alawites, Sunni, Shiite and Christian all have lived together peacefully (mostly) for centuries. Secularism has always been strong in Syria, most people see themselves as Syrians first, and Sunni, or Druze, or Kurd second. Im just afraid that the wider Shiite-Sunni split is going to leave no hope for a lasting peace in the region. The Sunni's would sooner ally with Israel before they would ever come to peace with Shiites and vice versa. The gulf states are really pushing hard for regime change in Syria, they really fear a spill over of hostilities into neighboring countries and allies, they also want to isolate the spread of revolutionary Shiite doctrine that's coming out of Iran.


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Offlinesweeper54
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Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #18795661 - 09/03/13 06:19 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Zap wrote: Except, apparently, it doesn't.  Only the French are on board.  That's it.  No Arab League, no UN, no Britain.


Refer to fact#3

This is not going to be a war, as President Empty Pants has declared numerous times

You are correct we are not going to 'war' but the fact is that once lied to in the last war people are reluctant to get consent in the next.

Bush had the Congress, the American people and the UN fully on board along with about 50 nations actively involved.  How come the great diplomat can't get shit?  I know.  Blame Bush.  Stupid.

lil'bush LIED to the congress, LIED to the UN and LIED to the world.

Arab League foreign ministers have urged the international community and the United Nations to take "deterrent" action against the Syrian regime over its alleged use of chemical weapons.

"The United Nations and the international community are called upon to assume their responsibilities in line with the UN Charter and international law by taking the necessary deterrent measures", the ministers said in a statement on Sunday following a meeting in Cairo.

It said that the Syrian regime of President Bashar al-Assad was "responsible" for the August 21 attack.

The foreign ministers also said those responsible for the attack should face trial, as other "war criminals" have done.

The neighborhood is calling for action, and that would include Israel, quietly.

Sounds like a more then a few countries.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: sweeper54]
    #18795671 - 09/03/13 06:20 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

sweeper54 said:
lil'bush LIED to the congress, LIED to the UN and LIED to the world.




So you can show us proof that he lied?

Or are you stating as fact that which is clearly opinion?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: imachavel] * 1
    #18796148 - 09/03/13 08:09 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

imachavel said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Please show how you know how I would act in these stressful situations. :lol:  I have faced a gun and gun fire and  never begged for my life.




prove it





Answer my question first.  Then I'll answer.




Im not going to answer shit. I doubt you have faced any of that shit. You would react like anyone else, crying "I need a medic"

Youve never been shot, shot at. You are a political debater. You argue paper stack morals. You dont know what people getting blown the hell up is. Its this:



You know what? Ive never really seen you post anything but useless arguments here. More over you have a know it all debate type attitude. Time for ignore





I had seven shots fired at me and another time had a gun pulled on me in a parking lot.  I dared the person to fire.  You're fos.  And it's no surprise you make claims about others that are bogus. Just because you'd whimper for mercy doesn't mean everyone would. :facepalm:

I'm so glad you're putting me on ignore.  It's your style when you got nothing but bs and get called on it.  :haha:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinesweeper54
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Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #18796256 - 09/03/13 08:30 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

sweeper54 said:
lil'bush LIED to the congress, LIED to the UN and LIED to the world.




So you can show us proof that he lied?

Or are you stating as fact that which is clearly opinion?




Dude there are several books written about it. Get your head out of the sand.


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: sweeper54]
    #18796871 - 09/03/13 10:09 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Zappa, where are your numbers here coming from?  If it is so plainly obvious, shouldn't there be some reputable sources saying that the majority of the people fighting against Assad are al-Nursa/al-Qaeda affiliated?


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #18796947 - 09/03/13 10:22 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

sweeper54 said:
lil'bush LIED to the congress, LIED to the UN and LIED to the world.




So you can show us proof that he lied?

Or are you stating as fact that which is clearly opinion?




o·pin·ion
əˈpinyən/
noun
noun: opinion; plural noun: opinions

1.a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.


You can find the reports here

Here's just a few of the lies:

Quote:

-- Statements and implications by the President and Secretary of State suggesting that Iraq and al-Qa'ida had a partnership, or that Iraq had provided al-Qa'ida with weapons training, were not substantiated by the intelligence.

-- Statements by the President and the Vice President indicating that Saddam Hussein was prepared to give weapons of mass destruction to terrorist groups for attacks against the United States were contradicted by available intelligence information.

-- Statements by President Bush and Vice President Cheney regarding the postwar situation in Iraq, in terms of the political, security, and economic, did not reflect the concerns and uncertainties expressed in the intelligence products.

-- Statements by the President and Vice President prior to the October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate regarding Iraq's chemical weapons production capability and activities did not reflect the intelligence community's uncertainties as to whether such production was ongoing.

-- The Secretary of Defense's statement that the Iraqi government operated underground WMD facilities that were not vulnerable to conventional airstrikes because they were underground and deeply buried was not substantiated by available intelligence information.

-- The Intelligence Community did not confirm that Muhammad Atta met an Iraqi intelligence officer in Prague in 2001 as the Vice President repeatedly claimed.




This is so easily verifiable, why not just admit it?


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #18797089 - 09/03/13 10:47 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Freedom of speech and education are beautiful things. It's amazing to me what the world would be like without the freedom we have here to say the things we know. Thank god for knowledge, the most valuable commodity. Of all time.

Obama, meet the new boss same as the old boss


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk


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OfflineLion
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Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18797943 - 09/04/13 04:08 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
There most certainly is a centuries old struggle between the priest class and the political secular class..  She is right and you are a kneejerk hater


I don't know how much less relevant anything could be to your original statement that there is a centuries-old conflict in the Middle East between "secular dictators" and "Islamist dictators", or to anything that Sarah Palin has ever said.  Sarah Palin was making a comment about Syria specifically, not about the ages-old ideological struggles between clerics and philosophers/politicians in Islamic states.  How you can impute that level of historical insight into her straightforward misrepresentation of a modern conflict is beyond me.


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Lion said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
She is spot on.  You are not.


So you agree with her assessment that the conflict in Syria is a centuries-old internal struggle between radical violent Islamists and a murderous dictatorial regime?[/quote}Yes

Quote:

So sez you without one shred of evidence


The Free Syrian Army has 80,000 fighters.  Do you think there are any terrorist organizations out there that have 80,000 fighters?


 

Yes


So for the record, when you are saying "Yes", you are also saying yes to the first question, indicating you believe that the present conflict in Syria is a "centuries-old internal struggle between violent radical Islamists and a murderous dictatorial regime..."  All right.

Now would you care to provide some statistics supporting the idea that Jabhat al-Nusra, or any radical Islamist group or combination of several groups with a substantial presence in Syria, has more than 80,000 fighters?  Even Hezbollah, one of the largest and most well-funded terrorist organizations in the Middle East, has at best 5,000-10,000 fighters at its disposal.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


Edited by Lion (09/04/13 04:16 AM)


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: Lion]
    #18797955 - 09/04/13 04:16 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I've already posted a quality article that calls him on his bullshit, and he ignored it.  I bet he comes in here and tries to spin your words, insults your intelligence, and possibly call you names.

Don't count on any intelligent conversation, just remember, he started this thread with the title "Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius."


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: sweeper54]
    #18798043 - 09/04/13 05:16 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

sweeper54 said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

sweeper54 said:
lil'bush LIED to the congress, LIED to the UN and LIED to the world.




So you can show us proof that he lied?

Or are you stating as fact that which is clearly opinion?




Dude there are several books written about it. Get your head out of the sand.




To take my head out of the sand would require it to be there in the first place. I've been reading claims that Bush lied for years. Funny thing... no-one has proved it.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #18798045 - 09/04/13 05:18 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
This is so easily verifiable, why not just admit it?




If it's so easy, do it.

The best you'll be able to do is prove he was wrong, not that he lied.

Let's see the smoking gun.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #18799000 - 09/04/13 12:18 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Exactly.  You will refuse to believe anything posted.  I have provided the link to the senate reports on the Iraq intelligence that show that the Bush administration told the American public things that they had no evidence for, and in some instances had evidence against.  If you won't believe a multiple year investigation by the US Senate, than so be it.

Like the other poster said, there are also plenty of books from people within the Bush administration that said the administration was intentionally misrepresenting the facts (LYING) in order to build support for the war.

Quote:

One chilling moment in the film comes in an interview with retired General Anthony Zinni, a former commander in chief of US Central Command. In August 2002, the Bush-Cheney administration opened its propaganda campaign for war with a Cheney speech at the annual Veterans of Foreign Wars convention. The veep made a stark declaration: “There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us.” No doubt, he proclaimed, Saddam was arming himself with WMD in preparation for attacking the United States.

Zinni was sitting on the stage during the speech, and in the documentary he recalls his reaction:

“It was a shock. It was a total shock. I couldn’t believe the vice president was saying this, you know? In doing work with the CIA on Iraq WMD, through all the briefings I heard at Langley, I never saw one piece of credible evidence that there was an ongoing program. And that’s when I began to believe they’re getting serious about this. They wanna go into Iraq.”




Ignorance is bliss, I guess. 


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #18799086 - 09/04/13 12:47 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Nothing ignorant about wanting proof. No-one has given any.

Did he say shit that turned out to not be correct? Sure. That's not a lie.

Did he do so knowingly and with intent to deceive? That is a lie.

Show me the proof.

Now, instead of worrying about what I will and won't believe... show me proof Bush lied.

Or, admit it's your opinion.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #18799132 - 09/04/13 01:01 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Intentionally misleading someone is lying.  Saying you have evidence you don't actually have is lying.  Saying you have evidence that the actual evidence contradicts is lying. 

All of those things happened.  Bush's administration lied.  You refuse to read anything I have posted, you refuse to believe the countless officials from his administration that say he lied.  That is ignorance.  Nothing more, nothing less.


Edited by Mush4Brains (09/04/13 01:09 PM)


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #18799336 - 09/04/13 01:52 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Right.

So you have no proof but repeating your claim ad nauseum will somehow help.

Proof will set you free. Got any?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineMush4Brains
LOOL HACKED!!!

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Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #18799478 - 09/04/13 02:31 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

The evidence is overwhelming.  Read the Senate reports.  Whether you believe them or not is inconsequential.  You still have not given me any reason to disagree with their findings.  You want to talk ad nauseam, simply look at your posts.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #18799487 - 09/04/13 02:35 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

You made a claim you can't back up.

I've read extensively on this subject. The proof doesn't exist.

Thanks for demonstrating you can't back up your claim.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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