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OfflineMush4Brains
LOOL HACKED!!!

Registered: 07/31/13
Posts: 4,419
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18794193 - 09/03/13 12:40 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
What substance Zappa?  All I see is a moron with a big mouth talking about things she has no business talking about.



The same goes in spades for you.




Likewise for you.


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: Icelander]
    #18794716 - 09/03/13 02:57 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

imachavel said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Please show how you know how I would act in these stressful situations. :lol:  I have faced a gun and gun fire and  never begged for my life.




prove it





Answer my question first.  Then I'll answer.




Im not going to answer shit. I doubt you have faced any of that shit. You would react like anyone else, crying "I need a medic"

Youve never been shot, shot at. You are a political debater. You argue paper stack morals. You dont know what people getting blown the hell up is. Its this:



You know what? Ive never really seen you post anything but useless arguments here. More over you have a know it all debate type attitude. Time for ignore


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: Lion]
    #18794841 - 09/03/13 03:28 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Lion said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Nobody besides the fringe Right cares what she thinks, or has to say.  She is helping destroy any credibility the GOP still has.



Do you have anything to say about the substance of her remarks?


Half obvious observation + Half vapid oversimplification = Policy genius?  I guess if that's the case you can pencil in most of us here at the Shroomery for illustrious careers at the State Dept.




Me, maybe, not most.
Quote:



By way of example:

Quote:

what vital American interests are at stake there today amidst yet another centuries-old internal struggle between violent radical Islamists and a murderous dictatorial regime


This is a complete and flagrant misapprehension of the dynamics of the present conflict and (more egregiously) the history of Syria.  This characterization of the conflict is like saying that the current U.S. political landscape is the result of "a centuries-old conflict between the Tea Party and left-wing blogs like Jezebel and Buzzfeed."  Basically, she doesn't know shit about Syria.  The only point in her favor is that she correctly sees intervention as a terrible move - or, more likely, has been advised to see it as such, since I doubt she gives a shit.




Methinks you have no idea what is going on there.  Assad is a murderous dictator and the majority of the opposition are Islamist nutcases and struggles like this are typical in the Islamic Middle East.  See Saddam/ Sadr.  See Iran mullahs v the Shah.  See Egypt Mubarak v Muslim Brotherhood. 

There is no centuries old struggle between liberal retards and libertarian conservatives since the liberal retards didn't come on to the scene in America until less than a hundred years ago.  You don't know what the fuck you're babbling about.


--------------------


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OfflineLion
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Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18794973 - 09/03/13 03:54 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Methinks you have no idea what is going on there.  Assad is a murderous dictator and the majority of the opposition are Islamist nutcases and struggles like this are typical in the Islamic Middle East.


Mmmhmm, thanks for the Kiddie History Lesson.  And the Assads have been in power for how long?  Centuries?  And Jabhat al-Nusra has existed for how long?  Centuries? :lol: 

The Assads have been in power for four decades, and many of the Islamist factions fighting them are groups that didn't even exist three years ago.  Did she or did she not use the term "centuries-old struggle" to describe the situation in Syria, specifically?  Yes, she did, and that is idiotic and comparable to the equally ridiculous analogy I made to U.S. politics.

As for the present dynamics on the ground: There are no credible parties that won't admit that the vast majority of Syrians who oppose the government (and the majority of fighters) have no affiliation whatsoever with any radical Islamist group.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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OfflineMush4Brains
LOOL HACKED!!!

Registered: 07/31/13
Posts: 4,419
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18795038 - 09/03/13 04:06 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

The Right is just looking to pounce on Obama.  He painted himself into a corner with his red-line comment.

Now if Obama doesn't act, the Right will blame him for being weak.  If congress doesn't approve military action, and he strikes anyway, they will blame him for ignoring congress.  If congress approves military action, then Obama should have done it sooner.  This isn't foreign policy, this is domestic political pandering.

We still haven't even been arming the rebels after the White House approved it.

So what you are saying, Zappa, is the same thing that Palin is saying.  "Let Allah sort it out."  What does that do to the United States' position in the world?  Let Russia and China know that their allies can slaughter civilians with chemical weapons and there will be no recourse from the United States?

How about we stop the name calling and start using our brains here?


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OfflineLion
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Registered: 09/20/05
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Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: Lion]
    #18795049 - 09/03/13 04:09 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Don't get me wrong, Zappa, I'm anti-intervention and 100% anti-Obama.  But we're talking about Sarah Palin and Syria here.
Sarah Palin doesn't know SHIT about Syria.  I would be dumbfounded if she could even do ONE of the following off-the-cuff:

1) Name a city in Syria besides the capital
2) Name Bashar al-Assad's father
3) Name a single member of the Syrian opposition
4) Name a prominent Syrian intellectual (hell, I'd settle for an intellectual in any country that borders Syria)
5) Say one coherent sentence about the Syrian regime's ideology

She's fucking Britney Spears in a pantsuit. 


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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OfflineMush4Brains
LOOL HACKED!!!

Registered: 07/31/13
Posts: 4,419
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: Lion]
    #18795064 - 09/03/13 04:12 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Don't worry, Zappa will just come in here and tell you that you know nothing but Hollywood politics or some bullshit and then reiterate his support for Palin.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: Lion]
    #18795143 - 09/03/13 04:25 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Lion said:
Quote:

Methinks you have no idea what is going on there.  Assad is a murderous dictator and the majority of the opposition are Islamist nutcases and struggles like this are typical in the Islamic Middle East.


Mmmhmm, thanks for the Kiddie History Lesson.  And the Assads have been in power for how long?  Centuries?  And Jabhat al-Nusra has existed for how long?  Centuries? :lol:




Assad isn't the only murderous dictator to exist in the Middle East and he won't be the last, nor is al qaeda the first group of Islamic extremists.  This struggle does indeed go back centuries
Quote:



The Assads have been in power for four decades, and many of the Islamist factions fighting them are groups that didn't even exist three years ago.  Did she or did she not use the term "centuries-old struggle" to describe the situation in Syria, specifically?  Yes, she did, and that is idiotic and comparable to the equally ridiculous analogy I made to U.S. politics.


She was correct.  There is a centuries old struggle between secular dictators and religious dictators.  Wake up.
Quote:



As for the present dynamics on the ground: There are no credible parties that won't admit that the vast majority of Syrians who oppose the government (and the majority of fighters) have no affiliation whatsoever with any radical Islamist group.



ORLY?  Methinks you are quite full of shit wrong.


--------------------


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: Lion]
    #18795172 - 09/03/13 04:31 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Lion said:
Don't get me wrong, Zappa, I'm anti-intervention and 100% anti-Obama.  But we're talking about Sarah Palin and Syria here.
Sarah Palin doesn't know SHIT about Syria.  I would be dumbfounded if she could even do ONE of the following off-the-cuff:

1) Name a city in Syria besides the capital
2) Name Bashar al-Assad's father
3) Name a single member of the Syrian opposition
4) Name a prominent Syrian intellectual (hell, I'd settle for an intellectual in any country that borders Syria)
5) Say one coherent sentence about the Syrian regime's ideology

She's fucking Britney Spears in a pantsuit. 




Bullshit.  She knows more about it than you.  Which is irrelevant to the validity of what she said, which is a lot more intelligent than what either the President or the last two inept Secretaries of State have said.  As far as I can tell, you and they are Ozzie Osbourne.


--------------------


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OfflineLion
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Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18795188 - 09/03/13 04:33 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

You're being really dense, man.

Quote:

“We have no clear mission in Syria,” she wrote. “There’s no explanation of what vital American interests are at stake there today amidst yet another centuries-old internal struggle between violent radical Islamists and a murderous dictatorial regime, and we have no business getting involved anywhere without one.”


  There is no ambiguity here.  She is calling the current Syrian conflict "yet another centuries-old internal struggle."  She was not talking about the history of the Middle East (which would be even more absurdly out of the confines of her narrow intellect).  She was talking about Syria.  And the current Syrian conflict is not centuries-old, it is fundamentally a postcolonial conflict.

Quote:

ORLY?  Methinks you are quite ... wrong.


I'm not wrong.  The majority of fighters are in the Free Syrian Army, which is largely military defectors.  They are fighting because they didn't want to kill their own countrymen.  Even the most alarmist commentators are mostly concerned with foreign arms shipments to the F.S.A. accidentally falling into the hands of Jihadist groups.  I've never seen any of them say anything about a majority of fighters being radical Islamists, because it's a preposterous notion.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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OfflineLion
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Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 8,775
Last seen: 20 hours, 31 minutes
Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18795207 - 09/03/13 04:36 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Bullshit.  She knows more about it than you.


No, she doesn't.

Quote:

Which is irrelevant to the validity of what she said, which is a lot more intelligent than what either the President or the last two inept Secretaries of State have said.


They're all idiots.  Their immense idiocy doesn't exculpate her.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: Lion]
    #18795261 - 09/03/13 04:47 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Lion said:
You're being really dense, man.

Quote:

“We have no clear mission in Syria,” she wrote. “There’s no explanation of what vital American interests are at stake there today amidst yet another centuries-old internal struggle between violent radical Islamists and a murderous dictatorial regime, and we have no business getting involved anywhere without one.”


  There is no ambiguity here.  She is calling the current Syrian conflict "yet another centuries-old internal struggle."  She was not talking about the history of the Middle East (which would be even more absurdly out of the confines of her narrow intellect).  She was talking about Syria.  And the current Syrian conflict is not centuries-old, it is fundamentally a postcolonial conflict.


  I disagree.  The entire Islamic world has been involved in a struggle between murderous dictators of the secular stripe and murderous dicators of the religious stripe.  You're just being a false parsing tool here.
Quote:



Quote:

ORLY?  Methinks you are quite ... wrong.


I'm not wrong.  The majority of fighters are in the Free Syrian Army, which is largely military defectors.  They are fighting because they didn't want to kill their own countrymen.  Even the most alarmist commentators are mostly concerned with foreign arms shipments to the F.S.A. accidentally falling into the hands of Jihadist groups.  I've never seen any of them say anything about a majority of fighters being radical Islamists, because it's a preposterous notion.




ORLY?  At this point I think most of the actual fighters are al Nusra and pals.  In fact, pretty much all of the commentators I've read have said it has been taken over by these scumbags.  You think most of the fighters are army defectors?

There has been a centuries old struggle in the middle east between religious dictators and secular dictators.  To deny this is idiotic.  The particular players may change but the game remains the same.


--------------------


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: Lion]
    #18795266 - 09/03/13 04:48 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Lion said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Bullshit.  She knows more about it than you.


No, she doesn't.

Quote:

Which is irrelevant to the validity of what she said, which is a lot more intelligent than what either the President or the last two inept Secretaries of State have said.


They're all idiots.  Their immense idiocy doesn't exculpate her.



Right.  And you know something they don't.  She is correct in everything she said.


--------------------


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Offlinesweeper54
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Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18795288 - 09/03/13 04:54 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

The Half Term Gov. of AK hasn't got the brains your god gave a Piss Ant.

You won't accept anything O has to say I refuse to give the Clueless Whore from Wassila any credit.

Fact #1. Chemical Weapons were used. Those weapons are illegal. That is why the world should care.

Fact #2. History shows that you fight a current war based on the last war.

Fact #3. lil'bush fucked up the trust of the people of the US and the world, that is why the British won't go and we have not yet.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: sweeper54]
    #18795308 - 09/03/13 05:00 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

sweeper54 said:
The Half Term Gov. of AK hasn't got the brains your god gave a Piss Ant.

You won't accept anything O has to say I refuse to give the Clueless Whore from Wassila any credit.

Fact #1. Chemical Weapons were used. Those weapons are illegal. That is why the world should care.




Except, apparently, it doesn't.  Only the French are on board.  That's it.  No Arab League, no UN, no Britain. 
Quote:



Fact #2. History shows that you fight a current war based on the last war.




This is not going to be a war, as President Empty Pants has declared numerous times
Quote:



Fact #3. lil'bush fucked up the trust of the people of the US and the world, that is why the British won't go and we have not yet.




Bush had the Congress, the American people and the UN fully on board along with about 50 nations actively involved.  How come the great diplomat can't get shit?  I know.  Blame Bush.  Stupid.


--------------------


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OfflineLion
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Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18795314 - 09/03/13 05:01 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I disagree.  The entire Islamic world has been involved in a struggle between murderous dictators of the secular stripe and murderous dicators of the religious stripe.  You're just being a false parsing tool here.


I'm not parsing.  It's clear that she is referring to the present Syria conflict as a centuries-old conflict between radical Islamists and one regime. :rolleyes:  This is basic reading comp:

Quote:

“We have no clear mission in Syria,” she wrote. “There’s no explanation of what vital American interests are at stake there today amidst yet another centuries-old internal struggle between violent radical Islamists and a murderous dictatorial regime..."


This is a misstatement that belies utter ignorant's of the country's history and eagerness to simplify the conflict and lump it with other regional conflicts.  That's usual the mark of a pundit, not a policy genius.

Quote:

ORLY?  At this point I think most of the actual fighters are al Nusra and pals.  In fact, pretty much all of the commentators I've read have said it has been taken over by these scumbags.  You think most of the fighters are army defectors?


I know that the majority are Free Syrian Army, not Jabhat al-Nusra.  And that a major element of the F.S.A. is army defectors, though it also has many civilians in its ranks.  Al-Nusra has been the most militarily successful opposition faction, but it does not represent a majority of fighters, nor any but a small percentage of civilians.

Quote:

There has been a centuries old struggle in the middle east between religious dictators and secular dictators.  To deny this is idiotic.  The particular players may change but the game remains the same.


Centuries old struggle between religious dictators and secular dictators in the Middle East? :lol:  I don't think that's really an overarching narrative that most regional historians would agree on.  Would you mind pointing out to me some examples of the secular Middle Eastern dictators of antiquity? :rofl2:


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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OfflineMush4Brains
LOOL HACKED!!!

Registered: 07/31/13
Posts: 4,419
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: sweeper54]
    #18795320 - 09/03/13 05:02 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:


ORLY?  At this point I think most of the actual fighters are al Nusra and pals.  In fact, pretty much all of the commentators I've read have said it has been taken over by these scumbags.  You think most of the fighters are army defectors?





Any credible sources?  That say most, i.e. the majority, of fighters are jihadists.  Commentators don't count, how about actual journalists, instead of listening to what idiots like Glen Beck, Sarah Palin, and any half-wit that writes for Breitbart?


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: sweeper54]
    #18795342 - 09/03/13 05:08 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

This notion is nuts that if someone somewhere does something really really bad, its the job of usa to punish them. That goes back to the discredited world cop idea. Discredited among reasonable people but alive and well among obamas rank and file, also known as 'tards. "Let god or allah sort it out", works for me.

Its as if the usa never learns anything from its many miscalculations. We worked to over throw the shah, now we have a religious run iran. We overthrew saddam because he was really really bad, now people get killed every day by nutjob bombings. Under saddam, the few he tortured to death each week is less than the typical number killed now each and every day. Under saddam there was stability, now there is chaos.

We intervened in libya, now there is chaos, we intervened in afghanistan, now after losing billions of dollars and thousands of usa soldiers, its still a mess. As soon as we pull out of a country after bringing "democracy" to them at the point of a gun, the whole thing we set up falls apart. So what does the genius in the white house want to do? Get into the syrian conflict of course. He is joined by lunatics on the right such as graham and mccain who never saw a war they didn't like.

Meanwhile, the economy is on the verge of collapse, our borrowing power is getting near empty, we are relying on counterfeit money to keep from going under and we are trying to get into trouble in yet another volatile region. The lunatics have taken over the asylum.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: Lion]
    #18795365 - 09/03/13 05:12 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Lion said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I disagree.  The entire Islamic world has been involved in a struggle between murderous dictators of the secular stripe and murderous dicators of the religious stripe.  You're just being a false parsing tool here.


I'm not parsing.  It's clear that she is referring to the present Syria conflict as a centuries-old conflict between radical Islamists and one regime. :rolleyes:  This is basic reading comp:

Quote:

“We have no clear mission in Syria,” she wrote. “There’s no explanation of what vital American interests are at stake there today amidst yet another centuries-old internal struggle between violent radical Islamists and a murderous dictatorial regime..."


This is a misstatement that belies utter ignorant's of the country's history and eagerness to simplify the conflict and lump it with other regional conflicts.  That's usual the mark of a pundit, not a policy genius.


  She is spot on.  You are not.
Quote:



Quote:

ORLY?  At this point I think most of the actual fighters are al Nusra and pals.  In fact, pretty much all of the commentators I've read have said it has been taken over by these scumbags.  You think most of the fighters are army defectors?


I know that the majority are Free Syrian Army, not Jabhat al-Nusra.  And that a major element of the F.S.A. is army defectors, though it also has many civilians in its ranks.  Al-Nusra has been the most militarily successful opposition faction, but it does not represent a majority of fighters, nor any but a small percentage of civilians.




So sez you without one shred of evidence
Quote:



Quote:

There has been a centuries old struggle in the middle east between religious dictators and secular dictators.  To deny this is idiotic.  The particular players may change but the game remains the same.


Centuries old struggle between religious dictators and secular dictators in the Middle East? :lol:  Not really.  Would you mind pointing out to me some examples of the secular Middle Eastern dictators of antiquity? :rofl2:




Quote:

Secular governments had existed in the Muslim world since the 10th century. According to the scholar Ira M. Lapidus:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_secularism

Piss off.


--------------------


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OfflineLion
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Registered: 09/20/05
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Re: Sarah Palin, foreign policy genius [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18795438 - 09/03/13 05:26 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
She is spot on.  You are not.


So you agree with her assessment that the conflict in Syria is a centuries-old internal struggle between radical violent Islamists and a murderous dictatorial regime?

Quote:

So sez you without one shred of evidence


The Free Syrian Army has 80,000 fighters.  Do you think there are any terrorist organizations out there that have 80,000 fighters?


Quote:

Secular governments had existed in the Muslim world since the 10th century. According to the scholar Ira M. Lapidus:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_secularism

Piss off.


Nice job.  You've pulled out a Wiki article that says nothing about any conflicts between "secular dictators" and "religious dictators", and which does not refer to any pre-20th century secular states by name.  The only pre-20th century mention is of the rulers of some early Caliphates.  Yes, when I think Caliphate, I think secular dictatorship battling radical violent Islamists!


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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