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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!



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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma] 1
#18795013 - 09/03/13 04:02 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Touched a nerve? I could care less dude. 
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: The Fe-Fi-Four Plus 2 - I Wanna Come Back (From the World of LSD)
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Nimpo
Big Black


Registered: 05/10/12
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
#18795014 - 09/03/13 04:02 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Learyfan said:
Yeah, but if you're going to release music that samples other people's music for sale, then you have to pay. That's how it should be.
Like airing music on American television, sampling/showing a song within a length of 30 seconds is free. These 30 seconds can be limited to 10 or 5 seconds depending on the network, but its always a free grab in the music industry if you stay WITHIN the limit and all samples are the same byte looped throughout the song
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
#18795028 - 09/03/13 04:04 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Learyfan said: Touched a nerve? I could care less dude. 

then try something other then project your bullshit onto another user, when you don't agree with his/her opinion. then you wouldn't appear as if you care.
he made a good point. you seem upset at the fact that the Doors were "personally misused" by a rapper, whom you could care less about.
not about anything else in particular. it's kinda infantile. if this is really about sampling, you're not making a very good argument against it.
Jay-Z is one of the biggest artists in the hip-hop world (unjustly, though this is besides the point) and if HE can do it, then really the rules are moot... if HE can do it, so can anyone else.
The Doors don't make the rules, and the rules are, like i said already, moot. 
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jewunit
Brutal!


Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 34,264
Loc: Ohio
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
#18795059 - 09/03/13 04:11 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Learyfan said:
Quote:
CidneyIndole said: Okay, on the one hand... to a certain degree hip hop, or at least some hip hop, could be seen as "fighting against the system."
On the other hand, Jay Z, specifically, and his brand of hip hop IS the fucking system.
I totally agree.
Except that was hardly the case in 2001, and even less so when he first started out. He is the system now but that hasn't always been the case, and I have a feeling plenty of counter-culture musicians (who were hardly counter culture) actually have a lot of respect for that. You could debate whether he was or wasn't ever fighting any kind of system, or "the man", but I have a feeling he at least thinks he was. I also think you are misunderstanding the whole situation. I have a feeling that he wasn't trying to sell Densmore for the sole purpose of using a sample for the specific song. It probably came about after. The conversation seems to be more about hip-hop in general than just getting a sample for a song.
The Doors didn't fucking "fight the man" either. They did drugs and made lame music.
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akira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: jewunit]
#18795086 - 09/03/13 04:15 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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dem rappers be taking all our songs!1
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something super extreme
NIGGA YOU A FUCK NIGGA!


Registered: 10/29/12
Posts: 17,397
Loc: TURNT UP!
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma] 1
#18795098 - 09/03/13 04:18 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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God, black people will just steal anything!! plz dont ban me for butthurts it is a joke
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jewunit
Brutal!


Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 34,264
Loc: Ohio
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It's okay, he gave him a tee shirt for it.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
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no wonder the 6o's died! that costumed black guy brought that gun to a knife fight, and then Jay-Z and Kenye West stole are psychedelic band's rights to their music, so now the new counter-culture is Urbanized Black Youth!1
it all makes sense! i'm a fucking prophet!1 everyone should listen to the Beatles!111
don't let the Hip-Hop Batman from that Rolling Stones concert ruin it, people... 
Quote:
jewunit said: It's okay, he gave him a tee shirt for it.
probably over fucking sized.
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!



Registered: 04/20/01
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: jewunit] 1
#18795169 - 09/03/13 04:30 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nimpo said: its always a free grab in the music industry if you stay WITHIN the limit and all samples are the same byte looped throughout the song
I'm almost certain that in the music industry you can't sample any portion of a song unless you pay for it. I'm 99.9% sure of that.
Quote:
akira_akuma said: if this is really about sampling, you're not making a very good argument against it.
I'm not against sampling. I don't know where you got that. I'm just surprised that Densmore let him use Doors music, given the group's history of not allowing that sort of thing.
Quote:
jewunit said:I also think you are misunderstanding the whole situation. I have a feeling that he wasn't trying to sell Densmore for the sole purpose of using a sample for the specific song. It probably came about after.
Your feeling is wrong. As usual, Densmore was the last hold out. Click here for a little more clarification on it.
Quote:
"before the world got to hear this verbal lashing over publishing, Hova himself had to convince The Doors’ drummer John Densmore to be able to clear the sample."
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: The Fe-Fi-Four Plus 2 - I Wanna Come Back (From the World of LSD)
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
#18795205 - 09/03/13 04:36 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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i thought this was about how Jay-Z "tricked" him into being a dolt.
when all along this was just about the Doors having rules against selling their music copyrights to individual artists, because it lacks merit in the eyes of the Doors?
oh. i c.
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Nimpo
Big Black


Registered: 05/10/12
Posts: 2,375
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
#18795215 - 09/03/13 04:37 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Learyfan said:
Quote:
Nimpo said: its always a free grab in the music industry if you stay WITHIN the limit and all samples are the same byte looped throughout the song
I'm almost certain that in the music industry you can't sample any portion of a song unless you pay for it. I'm 99.9% sure of that.
You need to educate yourself on the laws and loop holes of music sampling, then, because your 99.9% certainty is certainly wrong.
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akira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Nimpo]
#18795227 - 09/03/13 04:40 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hip Hop being living breathing proof of this. 
man, was i surprised to see King Crimsons 21 Century Skizoid Man being used in sample, by Kanye West... that kidna blew my mind... in a way that made me want to vomit, but yeah, at least Kanye knows that there is good music other then the constant blag that surrounds him from his peers. gotta give him props for that.
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!



Registered: 04/20/01
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Nimpo] 1
#18795253 - 09/03/13 04:46 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nimpo said: You need to educate yourself on the laws and loop holes of music sampling, then, because your 99.9% certainty is certainly wrong.
Can you show me a source that says that you can legally use some portion of copyrighted music without paying the owner? Because I got 99.9% certainty, but there's always that .1.
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: The Fe-Fi-Four Plus 2 - I Wanna Come Back (From the World of LSD)
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akira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
#18795273 - 09/03/13 04:49 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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When Sample Clearance Is Required
You plan to distribute copies to the public but meet one of the following: (1) an average listener would not notice the similarities between your end product and the sample, or (2) your use of the sample falls under the "fair use" doctrine. For more information on these, see "Defending a Lack of Sample Clearance," below.
Your Use is a Fair Use What is fair use? Fair use is the right to copy a portion of a copyrighted work without permission because your use is for a limited purpose, such as for educational use in a classroom or to comment upon, criticize, or parody the work being sampled. Factors in determining fair use. Generally, when reviewing fair use questions, courts look for three things: You did not take a substantial amount of the original work. You transformed the material in some way. You did not cause significant financial harm to the copyright owner.
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/permission-sampled-music-sample-clearance-30165.html
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Nimpo
Big Black


Registered: 05/10/12
Posts: 2,375
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
#18795284 - 09/03/13 04:53 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nimpo said:
Educate yourself
Id start with a google search or finding an entertainment lawyer whos willing to give you some of their time (they are everywhere).
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jewunit
Brutal!


Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 34,264
Loc: Ohio
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
#18795294 - 09/03/13 04:54 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ah, I was a bit off about that. I still fail to see how there is any trickery though. Densmore was skeptical about the merits of hip-hop and Jay Z gave an argument. You're just being a bit foolish I think.
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!



Registered: 04/20/01
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma] 1
#18795295 - 09/03/13 04:55 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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If you sampled someone's song, but only long enough that your sample can't be recognized, then what's the point? It would have to be a fraction of a second, because someone can and will name that song in one note.
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: The Fe-Fi-Four Plus 2 - I Wanna Come Back (From the World of LSD)
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!



Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,134
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: jewunit] 1
#18795319 - 09/03/13 05:02 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
jewunit said: I still fail to see how there is any trickery though. Densmore was skeptical about the merits of hip-hop and Jay Z gave an argument.
I just think Jay Z kinda worked him by appealing to him in a way that John could understand, even though it wasn't true. Public Enemy and Ice T fought against the man. Jay Z, who is a great rapper, don't get me wrong, talked about money, cash and hoes. I think John didn't understand hip hop enough to know the difference. Just my opinion.
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: The Fe-Fi-Four Plus 2 - I Wanna Come Back (From the World of LSD)
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akira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
#18795323 - 09/03/13 05:04 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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that's missing the point... you can also change the sample into something new. you could also use a bit that is recognizable, but not use it as a hook or a prevalent part of the song, but maybe use it an artful, and maybe slightly subtle way. the less obtuse the better, because essentially, you're not TRYING to rip off the artist you're sampling, typically; and that's the point.
if it makes a "statement" and you're not just trying to use someone else's "idea" or "work" to say it's original for your artwork; but instead make it work for your art as a statement (parody, message or comment in correlation with where the sample is from; ask why) or as a wholly manipulated section of music, that has no context from any body of work you may have took said sample(s) from... 
it's not about using a piece of music that's recognizable, it's about making a point... a statement.
these hip hip guys are making a couple points i can see... firstly, apparently they seem to wanna say "hey, look Rap is cool and all, but look at these old school classics, they can be worked right into our Rap songs and it stills sounds like cool Rap. look at both things are similar, go people, and find out some old school music like this classic shit! doesn't it sound dope?"
secondly, it's like look, they're saying "hey, it seems that you CAN take whole sections of other songs, and rework them into entirely different arrangements of music for other genres; AND make it a success. double standards of the music business bitches!"
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!



Registered: 04/20/01
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma] 1
#18795396 - 09/03/13 05:17 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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You're trying to sell me on sampling, but I'm already sold. I like most sampling and I understand why people do it. The question is whether or not you can use a portion of someone else's music in your music without paying. The answer is no. There's a documentary on the history of sampling on Netflix. You should watch it. DJs talk about actually playing a game with samples. They try to see how many they can get away with without the owner(s) of the copyrighted song realizing it. Because as soon as they realize it, the DJ has to pay.
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: The Fe-Fi-Four Plus 2 - I Wanna Come Back (From the World of LSD)
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