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tbagtag
Boomer Barron

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 1,432
Loc: Amsterdam
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Re: should i soak grains before g2g? [Re: GoldenArrow] 1
#18793466 - 09/03/13 08:42 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Awww shucks you're making me blush. That's why you haven't seen my agar thread pop back up. Just don't have the space to continue all these threads with photos lol.Quote:
GoldenArrow said:
Quote:
psillyshroomer said: Op I was just talking to someone who is experimenting with soaking grains before g2g and so far he has had success so I don't know what to tell you now. I know I said it was a bad idea and it still sounds risky to me so I would proceed with caution. Like I said he is still experimenting so I hate to tell you either way. He said he would do a write up of his results so stay tuned.
It's got to be a case of - dunking might give quicker results but will surely increase fail %age.
Then you're experimenting to see if the increased results - fail %age = higher or lower than the standard tek.
I think either way you'd want to suggest caution to noobs.
Agreed, this won't be spoken of in my grow along. The first time was an accident, I smoked too much, spaced and went into spawning mode. None of my other masters were ready and I was set up. Had to use it.
This experiment is to test fail % Only. If it works I'll use a clone or an isolate to test yield.
Again new growers, don't do this, I'm only running this test for failure rate. I have enough time and supplies to take one for the team.
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GoldenArrow
Chasing self up spiral staircase



Registered: 10/05/11
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Loc: UK
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Re: should i soak grains before g2g? [Re: tbagtag]
#18793468 - 09/03/13 08:44 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Cool, I've done some retarded shit just 'to see what happens' but you have to be willing to lose everything if it goes wrong - which most new growers aren't
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: should i soak grains before g2g? [Re: Stromrider]
#18793476 - 09/03/13 08:47 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
psillyshroomer said: Op I was just talking to someone who is experimenting with soaking grains before g2g and so far he has had success so I don't know what to tell you now. I know I said it was a bad idea and it still sounds risky to me so I would proceed with caution. Like I said he is still experimenting so I hate to tell you either way. He said he would do a write up of his results so stay tuned.
It is a bad idea. The odds of those being spawned and making it to a full harvest is pretty low. Not unheard of, but very low. Good luck tbag!
OP, it is my opinion that you should never dunk your grains before moving them to any kind of sterile grain.
And here's the picture of recovery of dunked grain (right) vs non-dunked (left), these are from the same isolate. so here is to show one of the primary benefits for our buddy vec:
Quote:
8/27 (24 hours after being placed on the dish):

8/29

8/30

8/31
Here is the not-dunked side vs dunked:
9/1

Given the choice between the two, I dunk every single jar and bag of spawn as it goes into the bulk substrate
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GoldenArrow
Chasing self up spiral staircase



Registered: 10/05/11
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Re: should i soak grains before g2g? [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#18793488 - 09/03/13 08:52 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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^^ not contaminated though and 'spawned' to a sterile substrate so kind of suggests that the G2G idea isn't *that* crazy?
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: should i soak grains before g2g? [Re: GoldenArrow]
#18793498 - 09/03/13 08:57 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
GoldenArrow said: ^^ not contaminated though and 'spawned' to a sterile substrate so kind of suggests that the G2G idea isn't *that* crazy?
The petris?
You can place a colonized grain on a dish with basically no sterile procedure and your myc will outrun most everything. Myc from a colonized grain is insanely aggressive.
However, the agar has one plane for growth to occur on and not much space to begin with.
Your jar of grains has exponentially more area to be covered. Assuming your grains have been exposed to open air and soaked in non-sterile water, it is way too risky to try to inoculate jars with this method.
None of my methods are ever intended to "sidestep" good technique...I believe it is Horrigan's law which states that "if it can contam, it will, given enough trials." 
I would not ever use those petris pictured without another transfer. You can never be too careful with sterile media.
Edited by FrankHorrigan (09/03/13 09:13 AM)
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tbagtag
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Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 1,432
Loc: Amsterdam
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Re: should i soak grains before g2g? [Re: GoldenArrow]
#18793507 - 09/03/13 09:01 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
GoldenArrow said: ^^ not contaminated though and 'spawned' to a sterile substrate so kind of suggests that the G2G idea isn't *that* crazy?
It could be, depending on the water source you could be introducing bacteria to your sterile grain. The beneficial bacteria in substrate will keep harmful bacteria at bay, it could still pop up regardless.
This experiment I'm doing, while the jars look good I could be really fucked when I fruit. These tubs are going to be kept in another room just in case.
I'm expecting them to fail, but I hope they don't. The colonization of the new jars appears more rapid and I believe it's the myc water that spreads it out further in the new jar. This is all hypothesis as I don't have enough data to make any conclusions.
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: should i soak grains before g2g? [Re: tbagtag]
#18793515 - 09/03/13 09:04 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
tbagtag said: It could be, depending on the water source you could be introducing bacteria to your sterile grain.
The grain is no longer sterile once you open that jar though. That's pretty much a given
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Stromrider
This must be the place



Registered: 06/02/13
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Re: should i soak grains before g2g? [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#18793545 - 09/03/13 09:23 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Love the new tips and tricks link frank. Nice
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tbagtag
Boomer Barron

Registered: 01/16/13
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Loc: Amsterdam
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Re: should i soak grains before g2g? [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#18793570 - 09/03/13 09:33 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said:
Quote:
tbagtag said: It could be, depending on the water source you could be introducing bacteria to your sterile grain.
The grain is no longer sterile once you open that jar though. That's pretty much a given 
I was more referring to inside a SAB. I would never g2g open air.
For clarification, if you dunk your master jar before a grain to grain and then dump your master jar into your sterile or once sterile grains there is a potential for higher failure rate.
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: should i soak grains before g2g? [Re: Stromrider]
#18793618 - 09/03/13 09:49 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
tbagtag said: I was more referring to inside a SAB. I would never g2g open air.
For clarification, if you dunk your master jar before a grain to grain and then dump your master jar into your sterile or once sterile grains there is a potential for higher failure rate.
I meant for the dunk, I assume you don't dunk in the SAB? 
I agree with what you're saying and I'm curious to see if you get fruits. I think it was zman who tried this once and his didn't make it to harvest.
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psillyshroomer said: Love the new tips and tricks link frank. Nice 

It's a work in progress.
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blueconfusion
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Re: should i soak grains before g2g? [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#18793710 - 09/03/13 10:11 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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From the man himself frank
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blueconfusion
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Re: should i soak grains before g2g? [Re: blueconfusion]
#18793720 - 09/03/13 10:13 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I owe a lot of success to him
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RogerRabbit
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Re: should i soak grains before g2g? [Re: michgan241]
#18793737 - 09/03/13 10:16 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
michgan241 said: if its good to soak grains before spawning to bulk, wouldnt it make sense to soak them before g2g?
No.
Never add an unnecessary vector of contamination, especially when expanding grain spawn. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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vaneazy
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Re: should i soak grains before g2g? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#18793760 - 09/03/13 10:22 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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im not going to read all these comments lol but no dont soak before G2G only before spawning to bulk for 20-30 minutes. GL
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mushrume man
Sadis Factory



Registered: 11/18/08
Posts: 375
Loc: PNW
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Re: should i soak grains before g2g? [Re: vaneazy]
#18794356 - 09/03/13 01:28 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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If we're talking about G2g we should all assume the entire process needs to be as sterile as possible. With this in mind the rehydration or soaking should be done in a seal jar with healing port, similar to making a myc suspension in water. Afterward pouring grains into receiving jars like normal G2g procedure.
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: should i soak grains before g2g? [Re: mushrume man]
#18794512 - 09/03/13 02:05 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushrume man said: If we're talking about G2g we should all assume the entire process needs to be as sterile as possible. With this in mind the rehydration or soaking should be done in a seal jar with healing port, similar to making a myc suspension in water. Afterward pouring grains into receiving jars like normal G2g procedure.
You would also need to use sterilized water, and you would want to understand that it is still an additional contaminant vector.
But that aside, why would you want to dunk before grain to grain?
My grain to grain jars and bags are colonized within a week, ten days at most.
If you need to speed colonization of your G2G, just dump more spawn into the jar.
Then rehydrate at spawning time
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mushrume man
Sadis Factory



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Re: should i soak grains before g2g? [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#18794648 - 09/03/13 02:37 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I dont. It would be interesting to see what difference it could make tho. Anything you do is a possible contam situation, the key is just to not over hydrate the sterile grain with the soaked substrate.
I have been considering a sterile soak for spawning to bulk so i can save the water for cloning when i get the supplies.
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Re: should i soak grains before g2g? [Re: mushrume man]
#18794804 - 09/03/13 03:20 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Even if it wasn't an additional contam risk, dunking grains for G2G seems like a lot of work for very little reward. I bet it would shave very little off your colonizing time.
Frank's agar and monotub experiments indicate dunking is beneficial. But I'm not so sure if it's worth it for G2G, considering the steps you would need to take.
It would be neat to know though.
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tbagtag
Boomer Barron

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 1,432
Loc: Amsterdam
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Re: should i soak grains before g2g? [Re: SpitballJedi]
#18794946 - 09/03/13 03:50 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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That's what I'm working on now. Things aren't looking good, I took those 12 jars pictured above and made 2 mini monos. I shake before I soak when spawning to bulk. But when I shook the grain looked slimey and over saturated. I didn't need to dunk, but I'm thinking I have a field of green in my future and not the good kind. I'll be doing a full write up in a few weeks don't know how many photos I can provide.
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blueconfusion
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Re: should i soak grains before g2g? [Re: tbagtag]
#18794995 - 09/03/13 03:57 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thanks tbag you have persuaded me to never dunk between g2g
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