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OfflineGoldenEye
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Absolute truth, does it exist?
    #18793256 - 09/03/13 06:42 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Do you believe there is such a thing as an absolute truth?

Why / why not?

note: what this absolute truth might be is irrelevant to this discussion.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #18793259 - 09/03/13 06:45 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Logical proof for existence;

If thoughts then existence
no existence
-----------------------------
Therefore no thoughts


If thoughts then existence
Thoughts
--------------------------
Therefore existence


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: teknix] * 1
    #18793263 - 09/03/13 06:47 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Existence must be absolutely true if there is a preponderance of anything at all.

Cogito ergo sum,

Je pense, donc je suis.


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #18793271 - 09/03/13 06:50 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Personally, I do not believe in absolute truths.

I think they belong to religions and are harmful and limiting.

Reasons for not believing in absolute truths:

- My beliefs change continuously
- There is no way for me to know wether my truth is more valid than somebody else's
- My truths are dictated by my experiences. My experiences are unique, so my truths must also be unique and therefore not absolute.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #18793283 - 09/03/13 06:59 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

How could you possibly/logically/rationally deny that there is existence?

Are there not ever thoughts inside that head?


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #18793287 - 09/03/13 07:01 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Your contention that there are no absolute truths would be more believable if you didn't use the words me and my.


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: teknix]
    #18793291 - 09/03/13 07:03 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Existence must be absolutely true if there is a preponderance of anything at all.

Cogito ergo sum,

Je pense, donc je suis.




I hate Descartes. Haha.

The problem with this is that you claimed that absolute truths stem from first hand experiences.

Thought is indeed a firsthand experience. But can we experience absence of thoughts? So can we check if indeed existence would cease if thoughts would cease?

This depends on the limits you put on the definition of thought I presume but I highly doubt it.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #18793293 - 09/03/13 07:05 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I already thought of that, but nice that you did too!

If there are ever thoughts then there has to be a place for them, no I don't think existence ceases, but you can't absolutely know existence unless there are thoughts at some point.

Existence is the most primal and basic place for anything and from that all else is built.


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: falcon]
    #18793294 - 09/03/13 07:05 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

falcon said:
Your contention that there are no absolute truths would be more believable if you didn't use the words me and my.




Well, I don't believe in absolute truths so I will always speak of my truths :laugh:


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #18793296 - 09/03/13 07:07 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

For instance, if there is existence, then there must to be experience of that existence if there are thoughts.

Would you deny that there is experience of thoughts?

With a bit of inductive reasoning the entire world can be built from that one absolute truth.


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #18793304 - 09/03/13 07:12 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

You are, is in order for there to be a you to use the word my, you are is a truth that you haven't acknowledged as absolute but accept without question in order to use the word my.


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Offlinejimiandtheshroom27
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: GoldenEye] * 1
    #18793309 - 09/03/13 07:14 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I think its very hard to deny existence as an absolute truth, although i'd love to see someone try and do it. I wonder, are there any other absolute truths besides existence?


--------------------
Are you a lucky little lady in the City of Light
Or just another lost angel?
City of Night, City of Night,
City of Night, City of Night, woo, c'mon


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: teknix] * 1
    #18793315 - 09/03/13 07:16 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Existence must be absolutely true if there is a preponderance of anything at all.




This statement doesn't make sense.  Nouns can't be true or false; only statements/propositions can.  It's meaningless to say "cats are false", but it is meaningful to say "'All cats are black' is false."

So, what proposition or statement do you mean by the word existence?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #18793316 - 09/03/13 07:16 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

GoldenEye said:
Do you believe there is such a thing as an absolute truth?

Why / why not?

note: what this absolute truth might be is irrelevant to this discussion.




I have no idea.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: teknix]
    #18793318 - 09/03/13 07:17 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

There is still the problem of objectivity.

I can't deny that I experience thoughts.
I never met anyone that denies the experience of thoughts.
Yet it would be an inductive and thus not entirely firm conclusion that therefor the experience of thoughts is universal and absolute...


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: falcon]
    #18793335 - 09/03/13 07:29 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

falcon said:
You are, is in order for there to be a you to use the word my, you are is a truth that you haven't acknowledged as absolute but accept without question in order to use the word my.




This is a very valid point! Thanks for pointing that out. It hurts my brain trying to find a way out of this one...


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: Icelander]
    #18793350 - 09/03/13 07:39 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

GoldenEye said:
Do you believe there is such a thing as an absolute truth?





I have no idea.




I'm leaning towards Icelander's approach at the moment.

I have no way of testing wether a truth is absolute or not, so perhaps it's best to be aware of that and just select the beliefs that work for you without worrying wether they are in fact an absolute truth or not.

Maybe the word truth is just fucked up and should have never been invented.

I will just stick with beliefs. Acknowledging that they are ever changing, that they are no better than other beliefs. And sticking with them as long as they work for me.


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #18793352 - 09/03/13 07:40 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

:cheers:


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Offlinejonnymushroom
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #18793366 - 09/03/13 07:45 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Truth is truth there has to be a truth in many things.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: deCypher]
    #18793394 - 09/03/13 07:59 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Existence must be absolutely true if there is a preponderance of anything at all.




This statement doesn't make sense.  Nouns can't be true or false; only statements/propositions can.  It's meaningless to say "cats are false", but it is meaningful to say "'All cats are black' is false."

So, what proposition or statement do you mean by the word existence?




It says that if there is preponderance using thoughts then existence is true, not hard bro.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #18793402 - 09/03/13 08:01 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

GoldenEye said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

GoldenEye said:
Do you believe there is such a thing as an absolute truth?





I have no idea.




I'm leaning towards Icelander's approach at the moment.

I have no way of testing wether a truth is absolute or not, so perhaps it's best to be aware of that and just select the beliefs that work for you without worrying wether they are in fact an absolute truth or not.

Maybe the word truth is just fucked up and should have never been invented.

I will just stick with beliefs. Acknowledging that they are ever changing, that they are no better than other beliefs. And sticking with them as long as they work for me.




Absolute truth is worked subjectively and internally through experience, you can't say an absolute truth is necessarily true for everyone, only for you.

Like I don't know absolutely that you exist, but it seems likely considering there is existence and you seem to be thinking about it.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: teknix]
    #18793427 - 09/03/13 08:14 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Existence must be absolutely true if there is a preponderance of anything at all.




This statement doesn't make sense.  Nouns can't be true or false; only statements/propositions can.  It's meaningless to say "cats are false", but it is meaningful to say "'All cats are black' is false."

So, what proposition or statement do you mean by the word existence?




It says that if there is preponderance using thoughts then existence is true, not hard bro.




Again, nouns like existence can't be true or false--your statement is meaningless as written.  I suspect you mean something along the lines of "'Things exist' is true", which is a proper proposition, but you still need to clarify.


--------------------
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Invisibleliquidlounge

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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: teknix]
    #18793841 - 09/03/13 10:46 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Logical proof for existence;

If thoughts then existence
no existence
-----------------------------
Therefore no thoughts


If thoughts then existence
Thoughts
--------------------------
Therefore existence




What does this even mean?


--------------------
As far as I assume to know...


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Invisibletribesman
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #18793842 - 09/03/13 10:46 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

My inference is that there may be absolute states,
along with states of progress and regress towards them.
These could possibly be repeating in a cyclic fashion, and
possibly with underlying lineality. My own absolute truth
However; is that I cannot be certain.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: deCypher]
    #18794267 - 09/03/13 01:04 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Existence must be absolutely true if there is a preponderance of anything at all.




This statement doesn't make sense.  Nouns can't be true or false; only statements/propositions can.  It's meaningless to say "cats are false", but it is meaningful to say "'All cats are black' is false."

So, what proposition or statement do you mean by the word existence?




It says that if there is preponderance using thoughts then existence is true, not hard bro.




Again, nouns like existence can't be true or false--your statement is meaningless as written.  I suspect you mean something along the lines of "'Things exist' is true", which is a proper proposition, but you still need to clarify.




Where's your evidence?

It's been written in logical format, with a premise containing the antecedent and consequent followed by a conclusion, which is a valid modus ponens and modus tollens, now if it isn't sound point out how or why.


Edited by teknix (09/03/13 01:10 PM)


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18794281 - 09/03/13 01:09 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Logical proof for existence;

If thoughts then existence
no existence
-----------------------------
Therefore no thoughts


If thoughts then existence
Thoughts
--------------------------
Therefore existence




What does this even mean?




It means:

If P then Q
not Q
Therefore not P

If P then Q
P
Therefore Q

It is a modus tollens and modus ponens, (logic)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modus_tollens


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: teknix] * 4
    #18794288 - 09/03/13 01:11 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Evidence? :lol:  "Existence is true" is a proposition, sure, but it's an ill-formed proposition because it contains a category mistake: you're ascribing the property of truth/falsity to a noun, like I said.  A well-formed proposition would be of the form "'Things exist' is true", or "'Existence is a property' is true," because each of the things within the single quotes is a proper proposition, and as such actually has the property of truth/falsity.

It may help you to properly elaborate what you're trying to say if you express what you mean by "existence is true" in other words.  What, exactly, are you trying to say is true?


--------------------
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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: deCypher]
    #18794290 - 09/03/13 01:11 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Existence must be absolutely true if there is a preponderance of anything at all.




This statement doesn't make sense.  Nouns can't be true or false; only statements/propositions can.  It's meaningless to say "cats are false", but it is meaningful to say "'All cats are black' is false."

So, what proposition or statement do you mean by the word existence?




It says that if there is preponderance using thoughts then existence is true, not hard bro.




Again, nouns like existence can't be true or false--your statement is meaningless as written.  I suspect you mean something along the lines of "'Things exist' is true", which is a proper proposition, but you still need to clarify.




You have no reason to ban any noun.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: teknix]
    #18794299 - 09/03/13 01:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
You have no reason to ban any noun.




:dudewtf: are you talking about?  No idea what you mean by ban, but nouns do not possess the property of truth/falsehood; only propositions do.  :lol:


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: teknix]
    #18794307 - 09/03/13 01:16 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

existence exists is probably the proposition :smile:


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Invisibleliquidlounge

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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: teknix]
    #18794330 - 09/03/13 01:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

liquidlounge said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Logical proof for existence;

If thoughts then existence
no existence
-----------------------------
Therefore no thoughts


If thoughts then existence
Thoughts
--------------------------
Therefore existence




What does this even mean?




It means:

If P then Q
not Q
Therefore not P

If P then Q
P
Therefore Q

It is a modus tollens and modus ponens, (logic)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modus_tollens




Thanks for explaining.

Not that I get it, it's too advanced for me.


--------------------
As far as I assume to know...


Edited by liquidlounge (09/03/13 01:22 PM)


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: deCypher]
    #18794379 - 09/03/13 01:35 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

teknix said:
You have no reason to ban any noun.




:dudewtf: are you talking about?  No idea what you mean by ban, but nouns do not possess the property of truth/falsehood; only propositions do.  :lol:




lol, that is the premise bro . . .


If thoughts then existence


It could just as well be;

If there are thoughts then there is existence.

I cut out the erroneous words that cause confusion such as are and is which implicates existence. Which I can't implicate existence in the premise before it is found logically.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #18794390 - 09/03/13 01:38 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

GoldenEye said:
existence exists is probably the proposition :smile:




Rofl, you wish :P


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #18794391 - 09/03/13 01:38 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
If there are thoughts then there is existence.




Now this is a well-formed statement!  Eliminating those "erroneous" words unfortunately rendered your statement meaningless.

Quote:

GoldenEye said:
existence exists is probably the proposition :smile:




Yah, that's what I figured.


--------------------
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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: deCypher]
    #18794412 - 09/03/13 01:43 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

No, it make a sound argument without unnecessary words.

If that was the premise then it wouldn't be sound, it doesn't have to be grammatically correct to show the validity of the argument, I mean we are working with 2 variables, thoughts and existence, thought imply existence, or a place for thoughts to be.

You only need a couple variables to make an if then else statement, much like programming, no meaning is lost by omitting are and is, unless you can't read between the lines.

(Which could have been the case, however i explained it to you so now you shouldn't have much of a problem)



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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: deCypher]
    #18794429 - 09/03/13 01:47 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

teknix said:
If there are thoughts then there is existence.




Now this is a well-formed statement!  Eliminating those "erroneous" words unfortunately rendered your statement meaningless.

Quote:

GoldenEye said:
existence exists is probably the proposition :smile:




Yah, that's what I figured.




Circular logic . . .

:weirdeyes:


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: teknix]
    #18794504 - 09/03/13 02:03 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
No, it make a sound argument without unnecessary words.

If that was the premise then it wouldn't be sound, it doesn't have to be grammatically correct to show the validity of the argument, I mean we are working with 2 variables, thoughts and existence, thought imply existence, or a place for thoughts to be.

You only need a couple variables to make an if then else statement, much like programming, no meaning is lost by omitting are and is, unless you can't read between the lines.

(Which could have been the case, however i explained it to you so now you shouldn't have much of a problem)






Sorry, but your original statement isn't sound because you omitted the verb--for the third time it's not a valid proposition otherwise.  :lol:  Just because you know what you were trying to say doesn't mean that you've succeeded in communicating it without ambiguity.  :shrug:

At any rate, "a place for thoughts to be" is a weird way to use the word existence.  Thoughts imply the property/capability of existence would be a better way to phrase it, or at least a more valid way to do so.  The problem is that there's still an implicit verb in your premise: since a noun is not a valid proposition, for your statement to be meaningful there must be a hidden verb attached to the noun 'thought'; in this case it's "thought exists."  So in the end, all you're saying is:

The fact that thought exists implies the existence of the property existence.

...which is ultimately just a tautology, as you assume the concept of existence in your premise while trying to prove it.


--------------------
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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: deCypher]
    #18794521 - 09/03/13 02:06 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

nope, the verb implicates what we are talking about, it has to be omitted to be sound ^.^

It holds no relevance except in grammar. We're doing logic.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: teknix]
    #18794526 - 09/03/13 02:07 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

^see my edit.  You're assuming the existence of what you're trying to prove through implicit use of the concept of existence.  No amount of omitting words (disregarding that the omission technically invalidates your statement if we're doing formal logic) is gonna change the tautological nature of your proposition.  :smirk:


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: deCypher]
    #18794536 - 09/03/13 02:10 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Dude, I already defeated that argument with the structure of the premise, grammar means shit here.

ONLY Thoughts implicate existence in the premise, as intended.

You're not gonna get a verb to argue verse, sry bro, better luck next time.

:bearbreakdance:


Edited by teknix (09/03/13 02:17 PM)


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Invisibleliquidlounge

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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: teknix]
    #18794551 - 09/03/13 02:14 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Why do you post this:

Quote:

teknix said::bearbreakdance:



?

Do you feel it makes you come off as one in good and sincere faith?

It's ironic how you posted the image but right above misspelled your/you're in the same sentence as 'verb'.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18794558 - 09/03/13 02:16 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I like how teh bear dances.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: teknix]
    #18794560 - 09/03/13 02:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

:grammarnazi:


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #18794564 - 09/03/13 02:19 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Absolute Truth = Ultimate Reality.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: teknix]
    #18794578 - 09/03/13 02:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Dude, I already defeated that argument with the structure of the premise, grammar means shit here.

ONLY Thoughts implicate existence in the premise, as intended.

You're not gonna get a verb to argue verse, sry bro, better luck next time.

:bearbreakdance:




You haven't defeated anything, "bro".  :lol:  Even if we accept the malformed structure of your premise AND conclusion, there is still the implicit use of the concept of existence involved in both parts.  You're assuming what you're trying to prove, man, even if you don't write down the verbs that you're implicitly bringing into your argument.


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Invisibleliquidlounge

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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: deCypher]
    #18794588 - 09/03/13 02:24 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
You haven't defeated anything, "bro".  :lol:



I find it sad you write bro with " around and then laugh. It's like going down to the level you're complaining at.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #18794602 - 09/03/13 02:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Well shit, if my double quote marks depress you that much, I can't imagine the level of heartbreak you'd feel if I started using reverse apostrophes.  ``:eek:``


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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: deCypher]
    #18794612 - 09/03/13 02:30 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Its got everything to do with this.


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Edited by liquidlounge (09/03/13 02:30 PM)


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: teknix]
    #18794650 - 09/03/13 02:38 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

GoldenEye said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

GoldenEye said:
Do you believe there is such a thing as an absolute truth?





I have no idea.




I'm leaning towards Icelander's approach at the moment.

I have no way of testing wether a truth is absolute or not, so perhaps it's best to be aware of that and just select the beliefs that work for you without worrying wether they are in fact an absolute truth or not.

Maybe the word truth is just fucked up and should have never been invented.

I will just stick with beliefs. Acknowledging that they are ever changing, that they are no better than other beliefs. And sticking with them as long as they work for me.




Absolute truth is worked subjectively and internally through experience, you can't say an absolute truth is necessarily true for everyone, only for you.

Like I don't know absolutely that you exist, but it seems likely considering there is existence and you seem to be thinking about it.



Absolute truth. Truth. Truth ISN'T belief. Truth would be universal. Since we know no truths we actually only believe in everything. Including ourselves. You actually don't know if you're real and the fact we can think doesn't prove anything. You can't prove everything you've ever seen or thought of isn't the product of a situation, person, or entity. You can't prove anything. Therefore I don't think truth is real. It's like they say.

Even if the truth were told to you. Would you believe it? No because how do we know it's the truth? That little skeptic will always be skeptical especially about something like truth.


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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: GoldenEye] * 1
    #18795344 - 09/03/13 05:09 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I like Nagarjuna's concept regarding truth.
I don't know if I believe it.

There's conventional truths and there's an ultimate truth.

Conventional truths can be talked about (Means of convention)

Ultimate truth transcends everything conventional.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #18795682 - 09/03/13 06:24 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

GoldenEye said:
Do you believe there is such a thing as an absolute truth?

Why / why not?

note: what this absolute truth might be is irrelevant to this discussion.



yes;
it's different for everybody
and that's the absolute truth


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: deCypher]
    #18795949 - 09/03/13 07:23 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Dude, I already defeated that argument with the structure of the premise, grammar means shit here.

ONLY Thoughts implicate existence in the premise, as intended.

You're not gonna get a verb to argue verse, sry bro, better luck next time.

:bearbreakdance:




You haven't defeated anything, "bro".  :lol:  Even if we accept the malformed structure of your premise AND conclusion, there is still the implicit use of the concept of existence involved in both parts.  You're assuming what you're trying to prove, man, even if you don't write down the verbs that you're implicitly bringing into your argument.




Only thoughts are implicating existence, if not then show me wtf you're talking about, rather than making flat statements and bare assertions.

It a simple subjective question as to whether there are thoughts, if there are (from that perspective) there must be existence to embody thoughts. (from that perspective)

It's not saying I exist, (from that perspective), only that existence accompanies thoughts. ezpz.


Edited by teknix (09/03/13 07:34 PM)


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OfflinejackSpearows
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: teknix]
    #18796397 - 09/03/13 08:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I think -absolute truth- is a combination of words that leads to an idea.  .... I'm thinking absolute truth is some kind of ever lasting certainty.  sooo there's that I suppose..

Which makes me think that the word truth is an mischievous and elusive word really.  :lol:

Its almost as if the word truth is the illusion itself.  :oogle:

Because truth implies an answer to my mind.  And that isn't a ruling factor of this experience. 


Edited by jackSpearows (09/03/13 09:01 PM)


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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: jackSpearows]
    #18797809 - 09/04/13 02:50 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

jackSpearows said:
Which makes me think that the word truth is an mischievous and elusive word really.  :lol:




Well yeah, from thinking about this for a bit I'm starting to blame the word as well. It's weird. I wonder if there are languages that do not have the concept of truth? Or at least a word that kind of means truth but has a different nuance. Let's find some liguistic friends. I'll report back.


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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #18797813 - 09/04/13 02:56 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

absolutely not :smile2:


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: quinn]
    #18797827 - 09/04/13 03:03 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
absolutely not :smile2:




I see what you did there, you are denying it and affirming it at the same time!

You guys are claiming there are no absolute truths, absolutely, making "no absolute truths" an absolute truth!

:yarly:


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: teknix]
    #18797831 - 09/04/13 03:06 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

IE; the claim that there are no absolute truths can't be absolutely correct unless there are absolute truths, GG!


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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: teknix]
    #18797856 - 09/04/13 03:20 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah the contradictions in terms are strong with this one.


Edited by GoldenEye (09/04/13 03:21 AM)


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #18797912 - 09/04/13 03:48 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

it will go far me thinks :evil2:


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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: quinn]
    #18797931 - 09/04/13 04:00 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

In my search for languages that have another concept of truth, I found an interesting dude named Richard Rorty, who claims the following:

"truth is everything that can be succesfully framed by language."


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #18797940 - 09/04/13 04:06 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

GoldenEye said:
In my search for languages that have another concept of truth, I found an interesting dude named Richard Rorty, who claims the following:

"truth is everything that can be succesfully framed by language."



hey yeh he's bad ass! :smile2:


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Edited by quinn (09/04/13 04:14 AM)


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18799006 - 09/04/13 12:19 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Absolute Truth = Ultimate Reality.



This

So in a sense, yes and no


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: topdog82]
    #18803478 - 09/05/13 02:06 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I don't even think the word"truth" should exist. It should be opinion or belief. Just my 2 cents.


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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: Mad Season]
    #18803561 - 09/05/13 02:30 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I think we should replace it with the word trouf.  Den we be talkin bout sumfin.  :yeahthatsright:


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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: Icelander]
    #18806276 - 09/06/13 05:50 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Absolute truths can only be known to the Creator. We hold such a small part of reality in our perceptions that in the present incarnation, we know nothing.


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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: Lucid_Pupil]
    #18806310 - 09/06/13 06:17 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Well I almost agree. We don't know if we know nothing. :lol:


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With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: Lucid_Pupil]
    #18806796 - 09/06/13 10:03 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Yup, I think similar.
All truths are relative for us.
We even don't know if (our) existence is some absolute truth as well.
But within a specific context, all relative truths become really kind of absolute as well. For example, if my head is hit very hard with an iron bar, then there is no doubt that I will exit this existence, even if this existence is true or false absolutely :grin:


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