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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineGoldenEye
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Absolute truth, does it exist?
    #18793256 - 09/03/13 06:42 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Do you believe there is such a thing as an absolute truth?

Why / why not?

note: what this absolute truth might be is irrelevant to this discussion.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #18793259 - 09/03/13 06:45 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Logical proof for existence;

If thoughts then existence
no existence
-----------------------------
Therefore no thoughts


If thoughts then existence
Thoughts
--------------------------
Therefore existence


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: teknix] * 1
    #18793263 - 09/03/13 06:47 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Existence must be absolutely true if there is a preponderance of anything at all.

Cogito ergo sum,

Je pense, donc je suis.


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #18793271 - 09/03/13 06:50 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Personally, I do not believe in absolute truths.

I think they belong to religions and are harmful and limiting.

Reasons for not believing in absolute truths:

- My beliefs change continuously
- There is no way for me to know wether my truth is more valid than somebody else's
- My truths are dictated by my experiences. My experiences are unique, so my truths must also be unique and therefore not absolute.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #18793283 - 09/03/13 06:59 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

How could you possibly/logically/rationally deny that there is existence?

Are there not ever thoughts inside that head?


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #18793287 - 09/03/13 07:01 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Your contention that there are no absolute truths would be more believable if you didn't use the words me and my.


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: teknix]
    #18793291 - 09/03/13 07:03 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Existence must be absolutely true if there is a preponderance of anything at all.

Cogito ergo sum,

Je pense, donc je suis.




I hate Descartes. Haha.

The problem with this is that you claimed that absolute truths stem from first hand experiences.

Thought is indeed a firsthand experience. But can we experience absence of thoughts? So can we check if indeed existence would cease if thoughts would cease?

This depends on the limits you put on the definition of thought I presume but I highly doubt it.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #18793293 - 09/03/13 07:05 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I already thought of that, but nice that you did too!

If there are ever thoughts then there has to be a place for them, no I don't think existence ceases, but you can't absolutely know existence unless there are thoughts at some point.

Existence is the most primal and basic place for anything and from that all else is built.


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: falcon]
    #18793294 - 09/03/13 07:05 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

falcon said:
Your contention that there are no absolute truths would be more believable if you didn't use the words me and my.




Well, I don't believe in absolute truths so I will always speak of my truths :laugh:


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #18793296 - 09/03/13 07:07 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

For instance, if there is existence, then there must to be experience of that existence if there are thoughts.

Would you deny that there is experience of thoughts?

With a bit of inductive reasoning the entire world can be built from that one absolute truth.


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #18793304 - 09/03/13 07:12 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

You are, is in order for there to be a you to use the word my, you are is a truth that you haven't acknowledged as absolute but accept without question in order to use the word my.


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Offlinejimiandtheshroom27
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: GoldenEye] * 1
    #18793309 - 09/03/13 07:14 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I think its very hard to deny existence as an absolute truth, although i'd love to see someone try and do it. I wonder, are there any other absolute truths besides existence?


--------------------
Are you a lucky little lady in the City of Light
Or just another lost angel?
City of Night, City of Night,
City of Night, City of Night, woo, c'mon


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: teknix] * 1
    #18793315 - 09/03/13 07:16 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Existence must be absolutely true if there is a preponderance of anything at all.




This statement doesn't make sense.  Nouns can't be true or false; only statements/propositions can.  It's meaningless to say "cats are false", but it is meaningful to say "'All cats are black' is false."

So, what proposition or statement do you mean by the word existence?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #18793316 - 09/03/13 07:16 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

GoldenEye said:
Do you believe there is such a thing as an absolute truth?

Why / why not?

note: what this absolute truth might be is irrelevant to this discussion.




I have no idea.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: teknix]
    #18793318 - 09/03/13 07:17 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

There is still the problem of objectivity.

I can't deny that I experience thoughts.
I never met anyone that denies the experience of thoughts.
Yet it would be an inductive and thus not entirely firm conclusion that therefor the experience of thoughts is universal and absolute...


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: falcon]
    #18793335 - 09/03/13 07:29 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

falcon said:
You are, is in order for there to be a you to use the word my, you are is a truth that you haven't acknowledged as absolute but accept without question in order to use the word my.




This is a very valid point! Thanks for pointing that out. It hurts my brain trying to find a way out of this one...


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: Icelander]
    #18793350 - 09/03/13 07:39 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

GoldenEye said:
Do you believe there is such a thing as an absolute truth?





I have no idea.




I'm leaning towards Icelander's approach at the moment.

I have no way of testing wether a truth is absolute or not, so perhaps it's best to be aware of that and just select the beliefs that work for you without worrying wether they are in fact an absolute truth or not.

Maybe the word truth is just fucked up and should have never been invented.

I will just stick with beliefs. Acknowledging that they are ever changing, that they are no better than other beliefs. And sticking with them as long as they work for me.


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #18793352 - 09/03/13 07:40 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

:cheers:


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Offlinejonnymushroom
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #18793366 - 09/03/13 07:45 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Truth is truth there has to be a truth in many things.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Absolute truth, does it exist? [Re: deCypher]
    #18793394 - 09/03/13 07:59 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Existence must be absolutely true if there is a preponderance of anything at all.




This statement doesn't make sense.  Nouns can't be true or false; only statements/propositions can.  It's meaningless to say "cats are false", but it is meaningful to say "'All cats are black' is false."

So, what proposition or statement do you mean by the word existence?




It says that if there is preponderance using thoughts then existence is true, not hard bro.


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