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Raven Gnosis
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Registered: 02/10/11
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Would you take it?
#18793123 - 09/03/13 04:25 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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If you were offered the gift and curse of life before your birth, knowing that everything you would come to love would figuratively and literally die, that your own death was inevitable, would you truly take it?
Why or why not?
-------------------- To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.
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teknix
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Registered: 09/16/08
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Of course, life is the most awesome thing ever imo.
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Ace1928
Experimenter



Registered: 08/09/13
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Loc: NSW
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
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Re: Would you take it? [Re: teknix]
#18793141 - 09/03/13 04:42 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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It would depend what kind of family or situation I was going to be born into. If it were me being able to choose retrospectively if I were to come into my life as it was and is then i would not take it. Too much hassle not enough reward If i were to be born into a more loving/supportive family (or just an actual family) then yeh i would take it Or if i were being born into a situation with money then I'd take that too. It does make things easier after all
-------------------- Only by embracing that which mother nature has supplied to us can we hope to ever peacefully exist on this planet
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quinn
some kinda love


Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
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Re: Would you take it? [Re: Ace1928] 1
#18793163 - 09/03/13 05:07 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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it's better than nothing (i guess)
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
Raven Gnosis said: If you were offered the gift and curse of life before your birth, knowing that everything you would come to love would figuratively and literally die, that your own death was inevitable, would you truly take it?
Why or why not?
No, life is unsatisfactory imo. Ask the Buddha. If this is the best creation can do then it's pretty lame imo.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (09/03/13 06:20 AM)
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teknix
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Registered: 09/16/08
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Re: Would you take it? [Re: Icelander]
#18793224 - 09/03/13 06:17 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Link?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
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Loc: underbelly
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Re: Would you take it? [Re: teknix]
#18793225 - 09/03/13 06:19 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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lolwut
bad motherfucker


Registered: 08/14/10
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Re: Would you take it? [Re: Icelander]
#18793226 - 09/03/13 06:21 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Raven Gnosis said: If you were offered the gift and curse of life before your birth, knowing that everything you would come to love would figuratively and literally die, that your own death was inevitable, would you truly take it?
Why or why not?
No, life is unsatisfactory. Ask the Buddha. If this is the best creation can do then it's pretty lame imo.
It makes sense that with life on other planets there are likely other situations at play, where life is much better. Or that, as a species here, we are currently like a caterpillar who thinks life is pretty boring inside his cocoon. 50,000 years from now if we haven't wiped ourselves out (Just watched Dr. Strangelove btw, classic ), we may be getting alot more satisfaction
Just a thought
-------------------- Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth, and taste...
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teknix
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Re: Would you take it? [Re: Icelander]
#18793227 - 09/03/13 06:21 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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That's not any proof of the Buddha's thoughts.
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lolwut
bad motherfucker


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Re: Would you take it? [Re: teknix]
#18793229 - 09/03/13 06:22 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
teknix said: That's not any proof of the Buddha's thoughts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_marks_of_existence
-------------------- Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth, and taste...
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teknix
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Re: Would you take it? [Re: lolwut]
#18793232 - 09/03/13 06:23 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Those can be transcended, which is what Buddhist practice is about, right?
Obviously if you don't progress towards transcending it your gonna be stuck in the midst of it.
I see it as a challenge, more than a fact of life.
Quote:
Nirvana is peace. Nirvana is the "other shore" from samsara.
Edited by teknix (09/03/13 06:29 AM)
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Totally depends on whether my life-to-be is awesome and vibrant with meaning and happiness, or if it's plagued with misery, unnecessary suffering and shitty happenings.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Would you take it? [Re: teknix]
#18793320 - 09/03/13 07:18 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
teknix said: That's not any proof of the Buddha's thoughts.
I didn't know which part you were asking about.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Posts: 95,368
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Re: Would you take it? [Re: deCypher]
#18793323 - 09/03/13 07:19 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said: Totally depends on whether my life-to-be is awesome and vibrant with meaning and happiness, or if it's plagued with misery, unnecessary suffering and shitty happenings.
I was assuming a replay of the life you currently have as that's all you can really know about.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Would you take it? [Re: Icelander]
#18793326 - 09/03/13 07:22 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Would I get to change anything or use the memories I had of my life to my advantage? If I can tell myself not to make various stupid decisions or to go for things I regretfully didn't the first time, then hell yeah. Otherwise there'd be no point in just repeating the same thing over again, although I'd probably choose that over plain death. 
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Would you take it? [Re: deCypher]
#18793522 - 09/03/13 09:09 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ask the OP. If I got to change things based on knowledge of past mistakes I'd certainly go for another chance. I'd kick some serious ass most likely. First off I'd ignore my old man completely.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Would you take it?
The psychology and philosophy that I thought you meant take it up the ass while reading at first glance - no I hate this indoctrination.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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cez

Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
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Don't think so. I enjoy life for what it is, but to me it seems like its a lot of lies with little compassion for others. There's obviously exceptions..Maybe I'm just in the wrong crowd 
Being permanently asleep doesn't sound too bad.
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Tropism
ChasingTail


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 2,039
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Quote:
Raven Gnosis said: If you were offered the gift and curse of life before your birth, knowing that everything you would come to love would figuratively and literally die, that your own death was inevitable, would you truly take it?
Why or why not?
For sure I would. Reality is fucked, but this is it. I have a privileged glimpse of a small part of it and no amount of suffering is going to keep me from my opportunity to witness it.
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
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I would take the offer for sure, the past few years of my life have been worth the near guarantee of a gruesome death, and all the suffering I've been through. Many fold over
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jackSpearows
ShaRooooms !!!



Registered: 01/17/12
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Quote:
Raven Gnosis said: If you were offered the gift and curse of life before your birth, knowing that everything you would come to love would figuratively and literally die, that your own death was inevitable, would you truly take it?
Why or why not?
I think the fact that we're all each in our own particular lives is indication that... yes we truly took it.
I think the "reasoning" behind the choice probably is a case by case basis which can be observed in how differently human lives unfold. Y do it in the first place even? Probably some kind of curiosity and means of exploration. Perhaps the experience before choosing life was similiar to here on earth when we aren't doing anything so decide something is more interesting than nothing and then we dive in some project. Apparently nature works on bigger levels and bigger levels, you like the same patterns, but different scales I mean to say. So if I had to guess I would say 1 particular life is part of a much larger process that we are currently undertaking. Again, sort of like how we go from project to project in our regular lives. Well this 1 life is just like that, but on a larger scale. Hypothetically the larger process of it all would be difficult if not impossible to see, would it not? ...... Thinking it through I don't see a good reason to even see the larger process in the first, while undertaking a specific project. While in regular life it's best to get consumed and lost in our projects and tasks. I'm guessing the project of our life right now is something similar.
.... Plus based on what a crap load of mushrooms can do to my perception of self and "my" life it doesn't seem like it could really be that big of a deal. Obviously we can get shattered psychologically and we obviously physically die so I think that choosing to temporarily live a life is a cool thing to do. .... But with this knowledge in hand you better know how to appreciate things and how to enjoy the simplicities.
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r72rock
Maybe so. Maybe not.




Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 1,327
Loc: Chicago
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This is really hard to answer without some kind of context.
If I was in a position to make this choice before I came here (earth), then why would I want to suffer? Am I learning something to take back to that other state? Am I just here for a good ride? Is it just like a dream that I have here? And would I (whatever this "I" is making the decision) have any consequences as a result of doing it?
If I wasn't in a position to make the choice before I came here, then what does it matter what my choice is? Is there any thing that is feeling the pain or pleasure of life?
I guess I feel like I'm missing the point.
-------------------- Current favorite candy: Peanut Butter Kisses
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treesniper119
No one of Consequence



Registered: 08/12/08
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Quote:
Raven Gnosis said: If you were offered the gift and curse of life before your birth, knowing that everything you would come to love would figuratively and literally die, that your own death was inevitable, would you truly take it?
Why or why not?
Would i be offered the meaning or reason for the life i was about to live before hand?
What is the true purpose/meaning of life? (Cliche u know )
if i were to understand the meaning before or afterwards, i would do it either way.
What if the meaning of life is to just be? Then choosing to sleep permanently,in all life forms, would result in nothingness, a state of no life/non existance.
Surely we can't all stay asleep..
-------------------- Icelander said: I'd like to fund unlimited abortions. Finally some good coming from my tax dollars. Repetoire89 said: I love abortion and fully condone it - some should make it into a sport. Treesniper119 said: Any one who is willing to start life & also willing to deny life to their form/seed/child/offspring is cursed. For you have severed your own cord to lifes worth. Anyone who condones these actions is cursed as well...
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Quote:
treesniper119 said:
Would i be offered the meaning or reason for the life i was about to live before hand?
Whats the fun in that?
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treesniper119
No one of Consequence



Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 1,893
Loc: rainbow land
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Got it.
The meaning of life is us discovering ourselves.
Like the cosmic dance of shiva.
we delight in discovering ourselves.
-------------------- Icelander said: I'd like to fund unlimited abortions. Finally some good coming from my tax dollars. Repetoire89 said: I love abortion and fully condone it - some should make it into a sport. Treesniper119 said: Any one who is willing to start life & also willing to deny life to their form/seed/child/offspring is cursed. For you have severed your own cord to lifes worth. Anyone who condones these actions is cursed as well...
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Repertoire89
Cat



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That or making meaning where there is none, huddling for warmth in the storm
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skippyluvs
Always

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Sure, just not the one for this planet and anywhere like it
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Raven Gnosis
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Registered: 02/10/11
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Re: Would you take it? [Re: Icelander]
#18804988 - 09/05/13 08:30 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
I was assuming a replay of the life you currently have as that's all you can really know about.
This is the context I am asking this question in.
Knowing you would suffer in all the ways you have and experience all the pleasures and beauties of being, if given the chance, you would have still taken it?
I personally may still take it, albeit my life having been more painful than beautiful. I have learned a lot from that pain that seemingly allows me to appreciate all this bullshit on a level most seemingly fail to.
Since I was little, I have sort of felt that there was something to this, something to this life, that on some level, death is more home than this ever could be and I have already done all this before, everything I am doing.... That I am having to go through it all again. That mysterious feeling has permeated my entire strange and difficult life. When I really let it sink in, it's almost maddening, like this is some kind of dream I can never hope to fully understand but should be paying attention to.
-------------------- To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.
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Romi
Indigo Child



Registered: 08/14/08
Posts: 425
Loc: Sunshine
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I will take life in any given form. I come to accept my experiences as a lesson needed to be learned. It truly changes the perspective of how you cope with lost.
I love my life, and I love me in it. Wouldn't change one bit of it, just continue to learn until my time here has done its purpose and I will move on to explore other ones.
--------------------
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Would you take it? [Re: Romi]
#18806735 - 09/06/13 09:42 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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My guess is you have never experienced the worst human life has to offer. Not by a long shot.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Romi
Indigo Child



Registered: 08/14/08
Posts: 425
Loc: Sunshine
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Re: Would you take it? [Re: Icelander]
#18806864 - 09/06/13 10:26 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm by all means no expert, but I can say I have my fair trade of humiliation, betrayal, torture, harassment, manipulation. Yes we are not all nice and yes life has its moments, but I continue to believe in perspective as well as lessons. Weather you like it or not we have a path to follow, sooner or later you will have to hit bottom and start building your true self and what you are meant to do for this community. I'm nowhere near that discovery, but I am for sure working towards it. I had my bottom and even in my lowest, I now can say I cherish my life and I am better person inside because of my lessons.
That's that make any sense?
--------------------
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treesniper119
No one of Consequence



Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 1,893
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Re: Would you take it? [Re: Romi]
#18806878 - 09/06/13 10:30 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Would you take it? [Re: Romi]
#18807079 - 09/06/13 11:35 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Romi said: I'm by all means no expert, but I can say I have my fair trade of humiliation, betrayal, torture, harassment, manipulation. Yes we are not all nice and yes life has its moments, but I continue to believe in perspective as well as lessons. Weather you like it or not we have a path to follow, sooner or later you will have to hit bottom and start building your true self and what you are meant to do for this community. I'm nowhere near that discovery, but I am for sure working towards it. I had my bottom and even in my lowest, I now can say I cherish my life and I am better person inside because of my lessons.
That's that make any sense?
For you only it makes sense. I can't imagine why someone dying of starvation in a war torn country where starvation is only a part of their problems would cherish life. Or a severely depressed person over here for that matter. I don't even know how they feel. How could I decide what would be the right course for anyone but myself. So yes it makes sense for you but that's as far as it goes imo.
Just out of curiosity, how exactly have you been tortured?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (09/06/13 11:36 AM)
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Romi
Indigo Child



Registered: 08/14/08
Posts: 425
Loc: Sunshine
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Re: Would you take it? [Re: Icelander]
#18807161 - 09/06/13 11:56 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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You are completely right! I can't even begin to imagine how would that feel. I've met people who a broken nail is depressive material as well as people with little to none who have no time to be depress, their strength and positivity goes beyond anything I can come up with. I have no saying for others, I can only speak for my self and my own take on the subject.
Just to entertain your thoughts... "I" consider my raping years to be tortured. Not that I would choose to re-live that, well see if they tell me in order to be who I am today I absolutely need to go through it again, I will probably have to say bring it on, just like the rest of my dark times. I simply can't let go to whom I've become because of those lessons.
--------------------
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Would you take it? [Re: Romi]
#18807219 - 09/06/13 12:07 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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"I" consider my raping years to be tortured.
Definitely. 
I've changed my mind after years of consideration. I believe now that each persons personal psychology is so unique that it's impossible to say (with any assurance of accuracy) what it feels like to feel what they feel. My feelings are no barometer for what others are feeling. It's hard to tell someone else to buck up and take it when you don't really know what they are experiencing. I still do it from time to time but I know it's mostly bs on my part.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Romi
Indigo Child



Registered: 08/14/08
Posts: 425
Loc: Sunshine
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Re: Would you take it? [Re: Icelander]
#18807428 - 09/06/13 01:11 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well you are only speaking about the HARDEST job in the world. To not judge or assume.
I deal with that everyday, even tho I am being judge left and right in my field. I often have to step back and remember the reason while I am in the field is to help not to bash. Is so easy to assume and profile. I get very upset at my self for doing it so. We all have a story.
The fact that you recognize that is BS from your part is all what this is about. Live and learn. =D
--------------------
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


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Re: Would you take it? [Re: Romi]
#18807500 - 09/06/13 01:36 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'd be fucking crazy to take this shit again. Hell NO. Life is absurd and there is little to no choice in anything, you begin dumb and likely grow deluded, you can't even tell when you're deluded. Perhaps out of chance and mistake you can gain some wisdom, to grow wise enough to find peace in life likely requires nearly impossible luck.
Most humans are OK in my book, we have a tough job.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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circastes
Big Questions Small Head


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Re: Would you take it? [Re: Romi]
#18807503 - 09/06/13 01:38 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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We do not know just what sort of circumstance we are caught in. We don't know the nature of our own minds, and the truth about it all doesn't come from someone else figuring it out, it comes from your experience, your understanding, your attempts to figure it out, your brain functions, your good and bad days, it just doesn't come any other way.
What's the biggest obstacle in understanding? Not realising your mind co-creates so your state of mind is really what Nature is, or your mind and Nature's mind are one.
This isn't a roadshow, that means this isn't easily understood, so you can have a pleasure trip. But it's not particularly difficult to figure it out either. It's inbetween, it's a living mystery, puzzle, conundrum, something that has strangely arisen and needs to be approached like a puzzle of some kind.
It doesn't really seem to be about pleasure, it seems to be about a celebration of divinity, and such a celebration doesn't really come off that welcoming, it comes off as overwhelming, especially if we are just primates.
Regard your brain as the most important thing in the universe and meditate a lot. Meditation increases quality of consciousness, but so does any act that increases the quality of your being, so having integrity, being loving, caring, being open minded... all these things improve who you are and so make for you a clearer picture of reality. This is how it works.
Get into a heightened consciousness and look again at this flawless world, and how interesting our cities etc. are too.
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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circastes
Big Questions Small Head


Registered: 01/14/10
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Re: Would you take it? [Re: circastes]
#18807516 - 09/06/13 01:42 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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If you can't figure life out or it seems hopeless, you need to look again at what you think the world is. That wasn't your idea. Is it right?
The world is a living mystery. It knows it's a mystery, and it knows you know it's a mystery, and if you approach it properly, it will begin to yield more of its mystery, until you find it is a genuine living mystery and we have totally no idea what is happening.
But with this comes some relief. Afterlife seems far more likely, or it doesn't matter as much. Or rather, it seems as though everything is going to work out. Also, with it comes a kind of appreciation of the beauty of life, in that every day ends up a new experience, nay, every moment.
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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circastes
Big Questions Small Head


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Re: Would you take it? [Re: circastes]
#18807523 - 09/06/13 01:44 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Really you can't be dissatisfied. I know people are starving and stubbing your toe sucks and maybe you're scared and depressed, but all these things are transient. Look again at what your mind does to reality, look again at what it is, you will be pleasantly surprised.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Quote:
Grapefruit said: I'd be fucking crazy to take this shit again. Hell NO. Life is absurd and there is little to no choice in anything, you begin dumb and likely grow deluded, you can't even tell when you're deluded. Perhaps out of chance and mistake you can gain some wisdom, to grow wise enough to find peace in life likely requires nearly impossible luck.
Most humans are OK in my book, we have a tough job.
Spoken like a true mensch.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
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Re: Would you take it? [Re: circastes]
#18807544 - 09/06/13 01:52 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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So the shittiness is transient? Yeah that's a good thing but it doesn't make it any better (except knowing we don't have to suffer it forever, or at least I hope).
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
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There's no way to know. We may only be on an upper level of hell.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: Would you take it? [Re: Icelander]
#18807805 - 09/06/13 03:18 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Let's hope not. It always astonishes me when I realise how little I really understand.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: Would you take it? [Re: Icelander]
#18808313 - 09/06/13 05:14 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: There's no way to know. We may only be on an upper level of hell. 
I've always thought that religions talking about "hell" were referring to this world.
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Memories



Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 10,484
Loc: Suwannee River
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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I wouldn't take it. I struggle enough with the pain of mundane thought.
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Romi
Indigo Child



Registered: 08/14/08
Posts: 425
Loc: Sunshine
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Re: Would you take it? [Re: Icelander]
#18810649 - 09/07/13 06:59 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: There's no way to know. We may only be on an upper level of hell. 
but see we need to believe in a god in order to believe in a "hell"
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Would you take it? [Re: Romi]
#18810678 - 09/07/13 07:24 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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It's just a way of talking. I have no evidence for either. But actually Buddhists talk about hell realms and no belief in a god.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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treesniper119
No one of Consequence



Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 1,893
Loc: rainbow land
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Would you take it? [Re: Icelander]
#18810703 - 09/07/13 07:41 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Wait... We grow in our suffering!? Stop the press
-------------------- Icelander said: I'd like to fund unlimited abortions. Finally some good coming from my tax dollars. Repetoire89 said: I love abortion and fully condone it - some should make it into a sport. Treesniper119 said: Any one who is willing to start life & also willing to deny life to their form/seed/child/offspring is cursed. For you have severed your own cord to lifes worth. Anyone who condones these actions is cursed as well...
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Not always. A child tortured or suffering starvation? Where's the growth? A dog beaten starved and tortured. Where's the growth?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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treesniper119
No one of Consequence



Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 1,893
Loc: rainbow land
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Would you take it? [Re: Icelander]
#18810740 - 09/07/13 08:02 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I said it half sarcastic & half believing it true when viewed through different lenses of observation.
-------------------- Icelander said: I'd like to fund unlimited abortions. Finally some good coming from my tax dollars. Repetoire89 said: I love abortion and fully condone it - some should make it into a sport. Treesniper119 said: Any one who is willing to start life & also willing to deny life to their form/seed/child/offspring is cursed. For you have severed your own cord to lifes worth. Anyone who condones these actions is cursed as well...
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viktor
psychotechnician



Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 4,293
Loc: New Zealand
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: Would you take it? [Re: Icelander]
#18810747 - 09/07/13 08:06 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Not always. A child tortured or suffering starvation? Where's the growth? A dog beaten starved and tortured. Where's the growth?
Some karmic debt is repaid
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: Would you take it? [Re: viktor]
#18810749 - 09/07/13 08:08 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
viktor said:
Quote:
Icelander said: Not always. A child tortured or suffering starvation? Where's the growth? A dog beaten starved and tortured. Where's the growth?
Some karmic debt is repaid 
karma is a convenient assumption, I don't buy it
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Well I'll take a more, imo, realistic approach to suffering and decide what makes for growth and what leads to only loss. Then I'll act on that. And hopefully the demons of childhood implanted guilt trips won't interfere with making that informed choice and then acting on it.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,534
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Re: Would you take it? [Re: Icelander]
#18810777 - 09/07/13 08:27 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Raven Gnosis said: If you were offered the gift and curse of life before your birth, knowing that everything you would come to love would figuratively and literally die, that your own death was inevitable, would you truly take it?
Why or why not?
No, life is unsatisfactory imo. Ask the Buddha. If this is the best creation can do then it's pretty lame imo.
sure I would take it, and probably did at least in one reconstructed scenario of my dreams.
but about the buddha, I do not think he said life is unsatisfactory, he said that one thing that pervades our experience of life is a sense of unsatisfactoriness: this is significantly different and to a huge extent cognitively different.
it is not to declaim life and support arguments for the right to be a depressed complainer.
instead it is excellent observation as an object of meditation; the "aspect or quality of unsatisfactoriness" (which seems to pervade everything) is very valuable to regard where and when you notice it.
in fact, it becomes a salient and underlying attitude repeatedly emerging in consciousness, and this is a great clue, a great connection (to the mystery of mind), and even to the very core of being, connecting, and 'looking for meaning or relevance': it exposes - the commonality of sangha, the root cause for of compassion, and the patience to endure more of ongoing creation.
as for things "being unsatisfactory" as opposed to that quality (unsatisfactoriness) pervading or being projected upon all things within our scrutiny as a side effect of attitude(s) - it is here that some value in the buddha's comment may be found.
the seed of this, sharpens discernment and awareness, like the yang within the yin and vice versa.
--------------------
_ π§ _
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ClockCode
A Lonely Hypha


Registered: 11/12/12
Posts: 546
Loc: The Highest Desert
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The earth is overpopulated.
-------------------- Psilovibing
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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You're right, life just us. But subjectively it's unsatisfactory so that doesn't really change anything at all as far as my statement and choice goes.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Romi
Indigo Child



Registered: 08/14/08
Posts: 425
Loc: Sunshine
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Re: Would you take it? [Re: Icelander]
#18811008 - 09/07/13 09:53 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Can I just be the cheese here and point out the obvious, loving this thread. Ok back to the discussion.
--------------------
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Tropism
ChasingTail


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 2,039
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Re: Would you take it? [Re: Romi]
#18823944 - 09/10/13 03:35 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't know where people are getting the idea life was intended as an idyllic affair. 
Something is not clicking in my brain that one would give up all they have ever known from beginning to end in trade for for the complete lack of experience (presumably). I just don't get it. Too much negative stimuli? Not enough positive? Who said it wouldn't be that way? Where are we getting these crazy delusions of happiness from?
This is life and this is life. She ain't going to change so lets not try and change her. I'm not trying to defend her or say she isn't a horrible sadistic bitch, by no means am I --she is FUCKED, but to act as if there isn't some reward from life alone is perplexing to me. Living is a success in and of itself compared to how many things don't make that cut, how many billions of animal lives haven't ever been born thanks to their ancestors trotting off the cliff. What you think they're the ones who got lucky? Has life truly become such an empty meaningless husk to transport your mind from beginning to end?
Dudes, we get to see this shit. All of it, for better and worse. yeah, it's fucking mangled to all hell and we can devise a million ways it could be better but none the less this is what is happening. Fuck the human race, fuck self-righteousness and fuck our egos. This isn't about our ideas and expectations, this is between us and the universe, mono e mono.
Call it whatever you want, I call it perspective and ultimately that's all we've got.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,534
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Re: Would you take it? [Re: Tropism]
#18825124 - 09/10/13 08:20 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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yah!
--------------------
_ π§ _
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ClockCode
A Lonely Hypha


Registered: 11/12/12
Posts: 546
Loc: The Highest Desert
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Re: Would you take it? [Re: Romi]
#18825656 - 09/10/13 10:16 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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My life is a "he" thank you very much.
But good post otherwise.
-------------------- Psilovibing
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Chuckfinely
another round for me an my buddy

Registered: 06/27/13
Posts: 628
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: Would you take it? [Re: ClockCode]
#18827153 - 09/11/13 10:14 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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totally would not take living over never existing
I've always believed that ignorance really is bliss.
If i had to have been born why couldn't it have been as a sloth just chilling the jungle, or a house dog only concerned with chasing its tail and food pushed from the table by the kids
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MrMoo
Psychonautical explorer



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 172
Loc:
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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I'd take it for sure. If we're talking about my life I have already lived so far, the good has sure outweighed the bad and the bad has only made the good even greater.
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Romi
Indigo Child



Registered: 08/14/08
Posts: 425
Loc: Sunshine
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Quote:
Chuckfinely said: totally would not take living over never existing
I've always believed that ignorance really is bliss.
If i had to have been born why couldn't it have been as a sloth just chilling the jungle, or a house dog only concerned with chasing its tail and food pushed from the table by the kids 
So you will take life just not in a human form again... =D
--------------------
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Chuckfinely
another round for me an my buddy

Registered: 06/27/13
Posts: 628
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: Would you take it? [Re: Romi]
#18835934 - 09/13/13 08:01 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Romi said:
Quote:
Chuckfinely said: totally would not take living over never existing
I've always believed that ignorance really is bliss.
If i had to have been born why couldn't it have been as a sloth just chilling the jungle, or a house dog only concerned with chasing its tail and food pushed from the table by the kids 
So you will take life just not in a human form again... =D
being human and self aware is a horrible affliction imo. It must be a punishment for some cosmic-wrong doing on my soul's part
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LysergicX7
Lunatic



Registered: 11/11/12
Posts: 1,206
Loc: Montana, USA
Last seen: 1 month, 17 days
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Only if I came back hotter.
-------------------- βEverybody is fundamentally, the ultimate reality. Not god in the political kingly sense, but god in the sense of beingο»Ώ the self β the deep down basic whatever there is. And youβre all thatβ¦ only youβre pretending youβre not.β -Alan Watts I think that in human evolution it has never been as necessary to have this substance LSD. It is just a tool to turn us into what we are supposed to be.β β Albert Hofmann
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: Would you take it? [Re: Tropism]
#18836142 - 09/13/13 09:26 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tropism said: I don't know where people are getting the idea life was intended as an idyllic affair. 
Something is not clicking in my brain that one would give up all they have ever known from beginning to end in trade for for the complete lack of experience (presumably). I just don't get it. Too much negative stimuli? Not enough positive? Who said it wouldn't be that way? Where are we getting these crazy delusions of happiness from?
This is life and this is life. She ain't going to change so lets not try and change her. I'm not trying to defend her or say she isn't a horrible sadistic bitch, by no means am I --she is FUCKED, but to act as if there isn't some reward from life alone is perplexing to me. Living is a success in and of itself compared to how many things don't make that cut, how many billions of animal lives haven't ever been born thanks to their ancestors trotting off the cliff. What you think they're the ones who got lucky? Has life truly become such an empty meaningless husk to transport your mind from beginning to end?
Dudes, we get to see this shit. All of it, for better and worse. yeah, it's fucking mangled to all hell and we can devise a million ways it could be better but none the less this is what is happening. Fuck the human race, fuck self-righteousness and fuck our egos. This isn't about our ideas and expectations, this is between us and the universe, mono e mono.
Call it whatever you want, I call it perspective and ultimately that's all we've got.
A life I'd like to live would have to be better than this by some distance. Regardless of all that. However I do realise I'm stuck with what I've got and had better make the most of it, and I'm trying to also.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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quinn
some kinda love


Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
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likewise
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
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Raven Gnosis
π°π’π―ππ’π«π±π¦π π¦π‘π


Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 1,311
Loc: Necoc Yaotl
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Re: Would you take it? [Re: Tropism]
#18843461 - 09/15/13 05:55 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Indeed. A close family member just a few days ago was in a severe motorcycle accident, his life long friend was on the back, a car ran her over and killed her. He is in intensive care in a drug induced coma fighting for his life, brain swelling and bleeding... Ugly shit.
If he survives these next few days and makes it into recovery, once cognitive again, I wonder what his thoughts on the question of this thread would be.
He will no doubt never be the same, or look at life the same.
I'm going to be writing a letter for him to read on his own time, extending my understanding and openness to him, as he is no doubt going to face an onslaught of criticism and ostracization from people around him, let alone his own demons born of this...
-------------------- To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Tropism
ChasingTail


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 2,039
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Quote:
Grapefruit said: A life I'd like to live would have to be better than this by some distance. Regardless of all that. However I do realise I'm stuck with what I've got and had better make the most of it, and I'm trying to also. 
What is this better life and why do you think it is real? The familiar habit of weighing and measuring naturally has us comparing lives and their quality, but how can we compare to something outside or experience? We can compare our lives to the appearance of others' lives, sometimes influenced by their opinions of them, but that doesn't actually give anyone anything concrete to compare it to. Ever. If that's the case it leaves us making judgment for judgement's sake. Better, worse, what does it matter they're just labels we're applying to things in relation to other things --things we cannot experience and thus must be imaginary and projective.
Doesn't make sense man to me man. What does make sense is a human mind weighing, measuring, and judging and naturally assuming there is something better when evidence has only shown that there is this. There might not be after life of any sort, this might be it, and so I ask where is this better life? Doesn't seem anyone in history has had it. Doesn't seem that other animals are having it. Doesn't seem the futures gonna have it, that's fer sure. So where is it? I just feel like if I'm going to spend my whole time looking for that better life and wishing I was there, then I guess it makes sense why I ain't having a good one. We only get back what we put in.
Nonetheless I figure it comes down to preference, and the weight that one puts on life, how much they love it and are willing to sacrifice for it. But I kid you not dear Grapefruit, guard your life. It is the only thing we truly have.
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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Quote:
Raven Gnosis said: If you were offered the gift and curse of life before your birth, knowing that everything you would come to love would figuratively and literally die, that your own death was inevitable, would you truly take it?
Why or why not?
I'd take it because life is pretty fun.
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hTx
(:



Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 5,724
Loc: Space-time
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Fuck a would..I will!
I will take it.
'Nd I will own it.
I will give it.
'Nd I will live it.
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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