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OfflineShroomPuncher
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Connection with nature
    #18787282 - 09/01/13 09:45 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

As a child, I've always loved nature. I've always appreciated a walk through the woods or good ol' star gazing. And after my first time with psilocybin, it definitely gave me a deep respect for nature. Anyone else here the same? I know some religions revolve around nature or are close to it but to me, it's more spiritual.


Does your spirituality or religion involve nature and if so, how do you view it? Are you an animist (do you believe that certain, if not all, objects of nature possess a "spiritual essence")? Or is it just something you appreciate? I'm excited to where everyone stands.


--------------------
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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Connection with nature [Re: ShroomPuncher]
    #18787321 - 09/01/13 09:52 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Maybe you will find this interesting: Gaia

Quote:



The Gaia hypothesis, also known as Gaia theory or Gaia principle, proposes that organisms interact with their inorganic surroundings on Earth to form a self-regulating, complex system that contributes to maintaining the conditions for life on the planet. Topics of interest include how the biosphere and the evolution of life forms affect the stability of global temperature, ocean salinity, oxygen in the atmosphere and other environmental variables that affect the habitability of Earth.
The hypothesis was formulated by the scientist James Lovelock[1] and co-developed by the microbiologist Lynn Margulis in the 1970s.[2] While early versions of the hypothesis were criticized for being teleological and contradicting principles of natural selection, later refinements have resulted in ideas highlighted by the Gaia Hypothesis being used in subjects such as geophysiology, Earth system science, biogeochemistry, systems ecology, and climate science.[3][4][5] In 2006, the Geological Society of London awarded Lovelock the Wollaston Medal largely for his work on the Gaia theory.[6]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_hypothesis





Lynn Margulis also developed the endosymbiotic theory, which explains the evolution of cells from prokaryotes to eukaryotes. I guess my spirituality is combined with science. :smile:


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OfflineBeavis91
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Re: Connection with nature [Re: teknix]
    #18787425 - 09/01/13 10:14 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Nature's awesome, eases my mind like nothing else.


--------------------
My hallucinations are having hallucinations:mushroom2:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Connection with nature [Re: ShroomPuncher]
    #18788070 - 09/02/13 02:18 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomPuncher said:
As a child, I've always loved nature. I've always appreciated a walk through the woods or good ol' star gazing. And after my first time with psilocybin, it definitely gave me a deep respect for nature. Anyone else here the same? I know some religions revolve around nature or are close to it but to me, it's more spiritual.


Does your spirituality or religion involve nature and if so, how do you view it? Are you an animist (do you believe that certain, if not all, objects of nature possess a "spiritual essence")? Or is it just something you appreciate? I'm excited to where everyone stands.





If you want to know what nature is then go out to the wilderness alone. Take a 22 rifle and try to feed yourself for several weeks.  Just because the sunsets are pretty doesn't mean it's all just nice shit.  Nature is one big struggle for survival and procreation for the most part.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineShroomPuncher
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Re: Connection with nature [Re: Icelander]
    #18788156 - 09/02/13 03:15 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

ShroomPuncher said:
As a child, I've always loved nature. I've always appreciated a walk through the woods or good ol' star gazing. And after my first time with psilocybin, it definitely gave me a deep respect for nature. Anyone else here the same? I know some religions revolve around nature or are close to it but to me, it's more spiritual.


Does your spirituality or religion involve nature and if so, how do you view it? Are you an animist (do you believe that certain, if not all, objects of nature possess a "spiritual essence")? Or is it just something you appreciate? I'm excited to where everyone stands.





If you want to know what nature is then go out to the wilderness alone. Take a 22 rifle and try to feed yourself for several weeks.  Just because the sunsets are pretty doesn't mean it's all just nice shit.  Nature is one big struggle for survival and procreation for the most part.





Never said otherwise. I know it can be just a brutal as it can be beautiful. No one's arguing against that. But I prefer to look at nature in a positive manner and when it does get ugly, acknowledge reality. Definitely lessons to be taken out of both.


--------------------
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Want a sig or avatar made? Message me. [Prints in exchange would be nice, but not required]

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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Connection with nature [Re: ShroomPuncher]
    #18788163 - 09/02/13 03:17 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomPuncher said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

ShroomPuncher said:
As a child, I've always loved nature. I've always appreciated a walk through the woods or good ol' star gazing. And after my first time with psilocybin, it definitely gave me a deep respect for nature. Anyone else here the same? I know some religions revolve around nature or are close to it but to me, it's more spiritual.


Does your spirituality or religion involve nature and if so, how do you view it? Are you an animist (do you believe that certain, if not all, objects of nature possess a "spiritual essence")? Or is it just something you appreciate? I'm excited to where everyone stands.





If you want to know what nature is then go out to the wilderness alone. Take a 22 rifle and try to feed yourself for several weeks.  Just because the sunsets are pretty doesn't mean it's all just nice shit.  Nature is one big struggle for survival and procreation for the most part.





Never said otherwise. I know it can be just a brutal as it can be beautiful. No one's arguing against that. But I prefer to look at nature in a positive manner and when it does get ugly, acknowledge reality. Definitely lessons to be taken out of both.




:thumbup:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Connection with nature [Re: ShroomPuncher]
    #18788342 - 09/02/13 05:15 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Most people want to look at everything in a positive manner.  But usually that image is unrealistic.  IMO anyone who hasn't actually done something similar to what I've suggested doesn't really know shit about nature and doing it is grokking it rather than "acknowledging" it.  Well maybe you're one of the few who actually have. :shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineShroomPuncher
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Re: Connection with nature [Re: Icelander]
    #18788389 - 09/02/13 05:44 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Most people want to look at everything in a positive manner.  But usually that image is unrealistic.  IMO anyone who hasn't actually done something similar to what I've suggested doesn't really know shit about nature and doing it is grokking it rather than "acknowledging" it.  Well maybe you're one of the few who actually have. :shrug:





I've seen and understand how brutal and relentless nature can be. I've done a little bit of wilderness survival and that alone was a good indicator that nature isn't always sunshine and spring breezes.


I always say "You can't truly appreciate peace until you've been through war". Not literally war but conflict of some intensity. I believe the same goes with nature. To truly appreciate the beautiful moments, sometimes a fear of the bad ones can truly put things into perspective. It's just all about outlook. I choose, or try my best, to look at the positives. Besides, there's often underlying beauty in the things that many label as negative.


--------------------
Hunting Psillies?
Want a sig or avatar made? Message me. [Prints in exchange would be nice, but not required]

Disclaimer: I in no way engage in violent acts against mushrooms, nor do I support or advocate such behavior. :mushroom2:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Connection with nature [Re: ShroomPuncher]
    #18788474 - 09/02/13 06:31 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Good for you then.

For most it's the reverse. There is underlying darkness in what much of  humanity labels beautiful.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Connection with nature [Re: Icelander]
    #18788508 - 09/02/13 06:47 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

ShroomPuncher said:
As a child, I've always loved nature. I've always appreciated a walk through the woods or good ol' star gazing. And after my first time with psilocybin, it definitely gave me a deep respect for nature. Anyone else here the same? I know some religions revolve around nature or are close to it but to me, it's more spiritual.


Does your spirituality or religion involve nature and if so, how do you view it? Are you an animist (do you believe that certain, if not all, objects of nature possess a "spiritual essence")? Or is it just something you appreciate? I'm excited to where everyone stands.





If you want to know what nature is then go out to the wilderness alone. Take a 22 rifle and try to feed yourself for several weeks.  Just because the sunsets are pretty doesn't mean it's all just nice shit.  Nature is one big struggle for survival and procreation for the most part.




It appears to you thus because you look at it from the point of view of the body. If you looked at nature from the point of view of eternal awareness, you would see it as a timeless play in which divine energy takes form.

Nature worshiping is a primitive sort of religion. Yes, it is true that everything has a spiritual essence and worshiping nature, plants, animals, or elements can give one a spiritual feeling. But this is vastly inferior to worshipping the Lord your God, because he alone will give you full understanding. When God is properly worshiped, you will see that nature is nothing other than an expression of God's own being. Then, when you attain union with God, you will realize that God is nothing other than your own being. Thus you are nature, therefore there is no such thing as feeling close to nature because there is nothing but nature. You feel close to yourself? You ARE yourself, therefore how can you feel close to it?


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Connection with nature [Re: Icelander]
    #18788512 - 09/02/13 06:49 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Good for you then.

For most it's the reverse. There is underlying darkness in what much of  humanity labels beautiful.




Both of these can be true.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Connection with nature [Re: Deviate]
    #18788544 - 09/02/13 07:10 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

ShroomPuncher said:
As a child, I've always loved nature. I've always appreciated a walk through the woods or good ol' star gazing. And after my first time with psilocybin, it definitely gave me a deep respect for nature. Anyone else here the same? I know some religions revolve around nature or are close to it but to me, it's more spiritual.


Does your spirituality or religion involve nature and if so, how do you view it? Are you an animist (do you believe that certain, if not all, objects of nature possess a "spiritual essence")? Or is it just something you appreciate? I'm excited to where everyone stands.





If you want to know what nature is then go out to the wilderness alone. Take a 22 rifle and try to feed yourself for several weeks.  Just because the sunsets are pretty doesn't mean it's all just nice shit.  Nature is one big struggle for survival and procreation for the most part.




It appears to you thus because you look at it from the point of view of the body. If you looked at nature from the point of view of eternal awareness, you would see it as a timeless play in which divine energy takes form.

Nature worshiping is a primitive sort of religion. Yes, it is true that everything has a spiritual essence and worshiping nature, plants, animals, or elements can give one a spiritual feeling. But this is vastly inferior to worshipping the Lord your God, because he alone will give you full understanding. When God is properly worshiped, you will see that nature is nothing other than an expression of God's own being. Then, when you attain union with God, you will realize that God is nothing other than your own being. Thus you are nature, therefore there is no such thing as feeling close to nature because there is nothing but nature. You feel close to yourself? You ARE yourself, therefore how can you feel close to it?





Thanks for the sermon but save it for your congregation.

And I've found that those who claim "full understanding" or that it's possible are full of something else. :haha:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Connection with nature [Re: Icelander]
    #18791201 - 09/02/13 06:12 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Going into the wilderness, in my opinion, has just as much to do with knowing nature as it does with knowing what it is like to be a fish out of water. It's a rapid change in environment you are totally not used to and not prepared for, of course nature is going to seem harsh and cruel if you make yourself experience in it that way.

Quote:


And I've found that those who claim "full understanding" or that it's possible are full of something else.




How have you found this? Have you gone inside their heads and experienced reality from their point of view? If not, I question how you can possibly know so much about others.

The problem is that you claim nothing can really be known when it suits you, but then you go back and make claims which one could not make if there was really no way to know anything, when that suits you. In order to be true to your own ideals, you must admit that my viewpoint is just as valid as yours.

I was meditating in my garden this morning and I began to pay attention to some of my plants. I noticed how happy my plants were. I can't really tell you how I knew they were happy, it is just something I became aware of. They were so alive and completely satisfied to do what plants do. Now obviously I can't provide any proof to you that my plants are happy and while I will admit that in this case there is a possibility I could be wrong about it, I choose to believe in what my intuition told me, which was that my plants are extremely happy beings.

I was reminded of the verse in the gospel of Mathew where Jesus says to his deciples …28"And why are you worried about clothing? Observe how the lilies of the field grow; they do not toil nor do they spin, 29yet I say to you that not even Solomon in all his glory was arrayed like one of these. 30"But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, will He not much more clothe you? You of little faith!…

So all I am doing is trying to present an alternative viewpoint, trying to share how I see things. How do you know I am not right? How do you know that plants aren't happy and it is an erroneous view of life that leads to the misery of human beings?

Do you really think that the life in one daisy is different from the life in another daisy? If not, then what about small little woodland creates like mice? If they also have the same life giving essence inside each of them, then what makes humans any different?  There are inumerable bodies of inumerable species constantly being born and dying, you don't think it makes sense that it is the same force that animates them all? Once you understand that, it's only a matter of realizing that you are not apart from the eternal being and the more you understand this on a conscious level, the more peace you experience in you daily life, in my experience.

How can you truly say that you have found that this is not true? What makes your claim of knowledge in that regard, that I am full of whatever, different from my claim that you can begin to realize the bliss of nature in your own self?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Connection with nature [Re: Deviate]
    #18792112 - 09/02/13 09:21 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

OK then tell me what created everything, why and how?  If you have "full understanding" you should be able to go into great detail and explain how you know what you know about all this.

Then with that done I'll admit my error.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Connection with nature [Re: Icelander]
    #18792172 - 09/02/13 09:32 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

The big bang . . jeez that was easy, what did I win?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Connection with nature [Re: teknix]
    #18792270 - 09/02/13 09:47 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Nothing, still need to know what created the big bang.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Connection with nature [Re: Icelander]
    #18792315 - 09/02/13 09:56 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, then we need to know what created that, and what created what led to that, etc.,etc, so forth into infinity.

I could tell you, but how could anyone prove it to you or provide evidence for it?

It was a collision with another universe of opposite polarity.

Now what good does that do you, is it satisfying, or you want more?

To what end?

To what benefit is this knowledge to you?

There are an infinite amount of things that led to that, you could spend your entire life trying to find an ultimate answer, even if you asked questions for the remaining years you have.

But that would be a waste of life, wouldn't it?

So the more applicable answer is Wu or Mu.

Forget about it.


Edited by teknix (09/02/13 10:02 PM)


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Connection with nature [Re: ShroomPuncher]
    #18793028 - 09/03/13 02:50 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomPuncher said:
As a child, I've always loved nature. I've always appreciated a walk through the woods or good ol' star gazing. And after my first time with psilocybin, it definitely gave me a deep respect for nature. Anyone else here the same? I know some religions revolve around nature or are close to it but to me, it's more spiritual.


Does your spirituality or religion involve nature and if so, how do you view it? Are you an animist (do you believe that certain, if not all, objects of nature possess a "spiritual essence")? Or is it just something you appreciate? I'm excited to where everyone stands.




VERY MUCH so! As a very little kid I was really taken up by fairy stories, and experienced nature in a magical way. But gradually this magical sense was battered out of my by the combined efforts of parents, peers, and especially school, and the media. I then --from about 9-15 had become OBSESSED with the 'big city'. I remember seeing the film Midnight Cowboy when I was a young teen---I was secretly gay--and absolutely mesmerized by the cinematic experience of New York City, including its seedy side. I wanted THAT.
I 'magically' (the sequence of events were VERY synchronistic) I got the chance to live in a big city when I was 15--London, and when there right in the very heart of it, Piccadilly Circus, where I have got this little job, this hippie softly tapped me on the shoulder and invited me to a party, and I was turned onto LSD!! So I think of this as LSD tapping me on the shoulder lol

And I had quite a few LSD trips in my 15th year which blew all the big ugly concrete city obsession away and I see and feel directly how nature is utterly magical and full of life and spirit!!

Ever since, I am on a journey where I go deeper and deeper into exploring all this, and what makes it VERY fucking real is that we now know that forces in this world are very not on this level and seem to want to DESTROY nature for all species including our own. So there is this deep sense of urgency!


Edited by zzripz (09/03/13 02:53 AM)


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Connection with nature [Re: Icelander]
    #18802182 - 09/05/13 05:50 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
OK then tell me what created everything, why and how?  If you have "full understanding" you should be able to go into great detail and explain how you know what you know about all this.

Then with that done I'll admit my error.




Ok, the problem here is the assumptions behind your post. Let us list them:

1. Things exist.
2. Something else, other than those things exist, which can either understand or not understand them to differing levels
3. The things which exist have a creator
4. If I had "full understanding" (which I never claimed to have) I should be able to explain to you, in words, "what created everything and how"

So the problem is, I am not operating under the same set of assumptions as you. I am actually saying, cast off all your assumptions and see things anew, as a little child sees them without judging or comparing.

If you want to understand me, you must learn to stop questioning me and start questioning your own assumptions.

Perhaps from my perspective, things don't exist, thus asking me to explain what created everything, why and how is a nonsensical question.

In an attempt to explain the unaexplainable, we can say that God created everything. How? Through his awesome power. I mean that is what God does it's his occupation he creates, just as rabbits hop and birds chirp, God creates. Why? To glorify himself.

That's just a surmise though, it is not true in an absolute sense. God alone is truth, all mental conceptions exist within the realm of imagination.

From another perspective, God never created anything because nothing really exists. Our experience is Brahman only. Even when that is not realized, we are still Brahman only. I remember years ago you used to talk about the Tao. I am not sure why you stopped, but that is it. The Tao alone is, eternal, always. Time exists only in the mind. Think about it. Isn't it always now? When is now? It is eternity. Time and eternity are just two sides of the same coin. How could it be any other way?

Most people dont realize they are the Tao because like you, they walk around with a bunch of assumptions in their heads, which color the way they experience the Tao according to their past experiences. When you systematically begin eliminating these assumptions, you eventually find that they are all dependent on one basic assumption, which is the presumption that you exist apart from the Tao. Try as you might however, you will not be able to find anything which you could truly call yourself no matter where or how hard you look. Everytime you look to see who is it that is looking, that shadowy figure seems to have fled away. Eventually you realize that the reason you cannot find yourself anywhere is because you are the Tao and you dont have a self apart from the Tao. After you realize this, everything changes. The questions that seemed so important and unanswerable to you before, dont arise. How could they? What is the Tao  supposed to explain the Tao to the Tao in words? Its absurd. Why not just be the Tao?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Connection with nature [Re: Deviate]
    #18802237 - 09/05/13 06:22 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

:boring:  You could have just said you don't have an answer. All you are giving is a subjective opinion and like you said we are operating under a different set of assumptions.  I assume that when I stand in front of a speeding car I'll be hurt. You assume it doesn't exist. (but still likely avoid testing it:lol:)


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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