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OfflineLearyfanS
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How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' * 3
    #18791180 - 09/02/13 06:08 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I've always wondered why the remaining Doors allowed Jay Z to sample their song 'Five To One' in his song 'The Takeover'.  Not only had The Doors (collectively) always been against selling their music to advertisers, but The Doors, while a bit on the dark side, were a hippie band.  I was surprised that they would lend their music to a rapper to use for a diss record against another rapper (Nas). 

Now I found out how it happened (click here).  So Jay Z convinced John Densmore, the last hold out in the deal, that he was fighting against the system just like The Doors had in the 60's.  What the fuck?  How could John have possibly fallen for that?  I guess when he said he was fighting against the man, he forgot to mention to John that he was just fighting against another man.  I'm not against "The Takeover" or its use of a Doors song really, but I'm just surprised that John Densmore fell for such an obvious lie.  Jay Z isn't fighting against the establishment in any way shape or form in my opinion. 




Quote:


Jay Z Wrote Letter to the Doors' John Densmore
Rapper helped explain hip-hop to skeptical drummer

Erin Coulehan
August 14, 2013 10:55 AM ET

Rock and hip-hop intersected in an unlikely place when Jay Z and Doors drummer John Densmore struck up a correspondence in the early 2000s, the rocker said yesterday in a segment on HuffPost Live.

The drummer said that when Jay Z sampled the Doors' "Five to One" on the rapper's 2001 album The Blueprint, he didn't understand the point. "Hip-hop was just coming on, and I was like, 'What is this stuff? There's no melody,'" Densmore said. "I was a curmudgeon."

100 Greatest Artists: The Doors

Jay Z got word of Densmore's skepticism, and got in touch. "Jay Z wrote me a letter saying, 'Hey, we're fighting the authority just like you guys did back then,'" Densmore said. The rapper also sent him a Def Jam T-shirt, which he held on to.

Skip forward a decade and Densmore found himself quoting Jay Z. While writing his book The Doors: Unhinged, Densmore turned to some of Jay Z's thoughts on success from the rapper's book Decoded. Densmore related to the experience of financial success not equating to happiness, and used some of the rapper's lyrics to further explore the effects of fame and the impulse to self-destruct. "I took a photo of me in this T-shirt, which I saved, and sent it to him and said, 'Hey, would you give me some of these words?"

Also in the segment, Densmore said he got a chance to smooth over strained relations with former bandmate Ray Manzarek before the keyboardist died in May. Densmore had objected when Manzarek and guitarist Robby Krieger toured in 2002 using the Doors name, resulting in a decade of strife.

"Fortunately, I had a closing phone call," Densmore said.


(http://www.rollingstone.com/)
















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InvisibleDawks
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18791607 - 09/02/13 07:34 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I don't really like how people are allowed to own music. Doesn't seem right to me. If some guy wants to "rap" over the top of your song, so what? I think it's silly you need permission for that.


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Dawks] * 3
    #18791672 - 09/02/13 07:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Well I mean, I think it's fine if you want to rap over my song, but if you want to make money on it, you better pay me.  But to answer your question, music is a commodity like anything else.  Why should be you be able to own anything? 














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Offlinemushroom_sandwich
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Dawks] * 3
    #18791836 - 09/02/13 08:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Dawks said:
I don't really like how people are allowed to own music. Doesn't seem right to me. If some guy wants to "rap" over the top of your song, so what? I think it's silly you need permission for that.



no way in hell should an artist be able to just use someone else's material that THEY wrote in their own song without permission/paying for the rights to do so.


:peyotezen:


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Invisiblesomething super extreme
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan] * 1
    #18792464 - 09/02/13 10:26 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Who gives two shits and a sideways fuck?
Clearly he didn't have as much of an issue with selling his music as you have with him selling his music.

What I find more appalling than some shitty rapper using someone else's music is the amount of overzealous reverence some people have for nearly equally shitty music.


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InvisibleSalomon
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Dawks] * 1
    #18792575 - 09/02/13 10:56 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Dawks said:
I don't really like how people are allowed to own music. Doesn't seem right to me. If some guy wants to "rap" over the top of your song, so what? I think it's silly you need permission for that.





music should be free.


to listen to it. to share it with your friends.



not to make money off it.


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Invisiblesomething super extreme
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Salomon] * 2
    #18792578 - 09/02/13 10:56 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

So music shouldn't be free, gotcha.


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Invisiblevolcomstoner
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Salomon]
    #18792959 - 09/03/13 01:48 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Salomon said:
Quote:

Dawks said:
I don't really like how people are allowed to own music. Doesn't seem right to me. If some guy wants to "rap" over the top of your song, so what? I think it's silly you need permission for that.





music should be free.





This.
Who pays for their music anyway?


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Invisiblejewunit
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18792963 - 09/03/13 01:51 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Wait I'm confused where is the trickery coming from?


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: something super extreme]
    #18792982 - 09/03/13 02:11 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

sVs said:

What I find more appalling than some shitty rapper using someone else's music is the amount of overzealous reverence some people have for nearly equally shitty music.





gotta love the overrated.


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: jewunit] * 3
    #18793168 - 09/03/13 05:19 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

jewunit said:
Wait I'm confused where is the trickery coming from?




I feel like Jay Z presented his brand of hip hop, and that song in particular, erroneously, but in a way that a former counterculture rebel could understand.  "Hey man, I'm just fighting against the system like you were" is how he presented it, but in actuality it was just a diss record against another rapper.  Know what I mean?  He pretended to be Public Enemy to someone who was hip hop illiterate. 
















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OfflineKonyap

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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18793176 - 09/03/13 05:27 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Meh I dunno, don't really care, he used it in a Unplugged performance so people liked it and anyone with the C.d. would know where it came from


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Konyap] * 3
    #18793192 - 09/03/13 05:45 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not sure either of those things are relevant to this particular conversation. 















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InvisibleCidneyIndole
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan] * 2
    #18794797 - 09/03/13 03:19 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Okay, on the one hand... to a certain degree hip hop, or at least some hip hop, could be seen as "fighting against the system."


On the other hand, Jay Z, specifically, and his brand of hip hop IS the fucking system.


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InvisibleNimpo
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: CidneyIndole]
    #18794910 - 09/03/13 03:42 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Sampling isnt a crime and it adds to the art


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Nimpo] * 1
    #18794945 - 09/03/13 03:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

CidneyIndole said:
Okay, on the one hand... to a certain degree hip hop, or at least some hip hop, could be seen as "fighting against the system."

On the other hand, Jay Z, specifically, and his brand of hip hop IS the fucking system.




I totally agree. 




Quote:

Nimpo said:
Sampling isnt a crime and it adds to the art




Yeah, but if you're going to release music that samples other people's music for sale, then you have to pay.  That's how it should be. 
















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Invisiblesomething super extreme
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan] * 3
    #18794977 - 09/03/13 03:55 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Why? Because you place ill-informed importance on the sanctity of intellectual property, or some equally absurd rubbish?
I'm sure you wouldn't have even made this post if shitty hippy band X had used shitty hippy band Y's song for some purpose. You're just upset that someone you don't like used a song in a manner that you don't like. Boo hoo.


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: something super extreme] * 6
    #18794996 - 09/03/13 03:57 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

You are an extremely angry person. 
















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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan] * 1
    #18795000 - 09/03/13 03:58 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

no, he's making a point, and i think he touched a nerve.

he doesn't appear to be angry to me, at all. :shrug:

plus, whoever one upped your post, same applies. touched a nerve at some point.

man, so typical.


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan] * 1
    #18795011 - 09/03/13 04:01 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
You are an extremely angry person. 





Foaming at the mouth and shaking with rage.
But feel free to do something other than deflect.


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #18795013 - 09/03/13 04:02 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Touched a nerve?  I could care less dude.  :shrug:















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InvisibleNimpo
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18795014 - 09/03/13 04:02 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:


Yeah, but if you're going to release music that samples other people's music for sale, then you have to pay.  That's how it should be. 




Like airing music on American television, sampling/showing a song within a length of 30 seconds is free. These 30 seconds can be limited to 10 or 5 seconds depending on the network, but its always a free grab in the music industry if you stay WITHIN the limit and all samples are the same byte looped throughout the song


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18795028 - 09/03/13 04:04 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
Touched a nerve?  I could care less dude.  :shrug:

















then try something other then project your bullshit onto another user, when you don't agree with his/her opinion. :shrug: then you wouldn't appear as if you care.

he made a good point. you seem upset at the fact that the Doors were "personally misused" by a rapper, whom you could care less about.

not about anything else in particular. it's kinda infantile. if this is really about sampling, you're not making a very good argument against it.

Jay-Z is one of the biggest artists in the hip-hop world (unjustly, though this is besides the point) and if HE can do it, then really the rules are moot... if HE can do it, so can anyone else.

The Doors don't make the rules, and the rules are, like i said already, moot. :shrug:




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Invisiblejewunit
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18795059 - 09/03/13 04:11 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
Quote:

CidneyIndole said:
Okay, on the one hand... to a certain degree hip hop, or at least some hip hop, could be seen as "fighting against the system."

On the other hand, Jay Z, specifically, and his brand of hip hop IS the fucking system.




I totally agree. 



Except that was hardly the case in 2001, and even less so when he first started out. He is the system now but that hasn't always been the case, and I have a feeling plenty of counter-culture musicians (who were hardly counter culture) actually have a lot of respect for that. You could debate whether he was or wasn't ever fighting any kind of system, or "the man", but I have a feeling he at least thinks he was. I also think you are misunderstanding the whole situation. I have a feeling that he wasn't trying to sell Densmore for the sole purpose of using a sample for the specific song. It probably came about after. The conversation seems to be more about hip-hop in general than just getting a sample for a song.

The Doors didn't fucking "fight the man" either. They did drugs and made lame music.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: jewunit]
    #18795086 - 09/03/13 04:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

:thumbup: dem rappers be taking all our songs!1


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #18795098 - 09/03/13 04:18 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

God, black people will just steal anything!!
plz dont ban me for butthurts it is a joke


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Invisiblejewunit
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: something super extreme]
    #18795110 - 09/03/13 04:19 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

It's okay, he gave him a tee shirt for it.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: something super extreme]
    #18795117 - 09/03/13 04:20 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

no wonder the 6o's died! that costumed black guy brought that gun to a knife fight, and then Jay-Z and Kenye West stole are psychedelic band's rights to their music, so now the new counter-culture is Urbanized Black Youth!1

it all makes sense! i'm a fucking prophet!1 everyone should listen to the Beatles!111

don't let the Hip-Hop Batman from that Rolling Stones concert ruin it, people... :sad:

Quote:

jewunit said:
It's okay, he gave him a tee shirt for it.



probably over fucking sized. :mad:


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: jewunit] * 1
    #18795169 - 09/03/13 04:30 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Nimpo said:
its always a free grab in the music industry if you stay WITHIN the limit and all samples are the same byte looped throughout the song




I'm almost certain that in the music industry you can't sample any portion of a song unless you pay for it.  I'm 99.9% sure of that. 






Quote:

akira_akuma said:
if this is really about sampling, you're not making a very good argument against it.




I'm not against sampling.  I don't know where you got that.  I'm just surprised that Densmore let him use Doors music, given the group's history of not allowing that sort of thing.






Quote:

jewunit said:I also think you are misunderstanding the whole situation. I have a feeling that he wasn't trying to sell Densmore for the sole purpose of using a sample for the specific song. It probably came about after.




Your feeling is wrong.  As usual, Densmore was the last hold out.  Click here for a little more clarification on it. 


Quote:

"before the world got to hear this verbal lashing over publishing, Hova himself had to convince The Doors’ drummer John Densmore to be able to clear the sample."


















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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18795205 - 09/03/13 04:36 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

i thought this was about how Jay-Z "tricked" him into being a dolt.

when all along this was just about the Doors having rules against selling their music copyrights to individual artists, because it lacks merit in the eyes of the Doors?

oh. i c. :goodluckwiththat2:


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InvisibleNimpo
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18795215 - 09/03/13 04:37 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
Quote:

Nimpo said:
its always a free grab in the music industry if you stay WITHIN the limit and all samples are the same byte looped throughout the song




I'm almost certain that in the music industry you can't sample any portion of a song unless you pay for it.  I'm 99.9% sure of that. 






You need to educate yourself on the laws and loop holes of music sampling, then, because your 99.9% certainty is certainly wrong.



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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Nimpo]
    #18795227 - 09/03/13 04:40 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Hip Hop being living breathing proof of this. :lol:

man, was i surprised to see King Crimsons 21 Century Skizoid Man being used in sample, by Kanye West... that kidna blew my mind... in a way that made me want to vomit, but yeah, at least Kanye knows that there is good music other then the constant blag that surrounds him from his peers. gotta give him props for that. :yesnod:


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Nimpo] * 1
    #18795253 - 09/03/13 04:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Nimpo said:
You need to educate yourself on the laws and loop holes of music sampling, then, because your 99.9% certainty is certainly wrong.




Can you show me a source that says that you can legally use some portion of copyrighted music without paying the owner?  Because I got 99.9% certainty, but there's always that .1. 
















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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18795273 - 09/03/13 04:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

When Sample Clearance Is Required

You plan to distribute copies to the public but meet one of the following: (1) an average listener would not notice the similarities between your end product and the sample, or (2) your use of the sample falls under the "fair use" doctrine. For more information on these, see "Defending a Lack of Sample Clearance," below.

Your Use is a Fair Use
What is fair use? Fair use is the right to copy a portion of a copyrighted work without permission because your use is for a limited purpose, such as for educational use in a classroom or to comment upon, criticize, or parody the work being sampled.
Factors in determining fair use. Generally, when reviewing fair use questions, courts look for three things:
You did not take a substantial amount of the original work.
You transformed the material in some way.
You did not cause significant financial harm to the copyright owner.


http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/permission-sampled-music-sample-clearance-30165.html


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18795284 - 09/03/13 04:53 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Nimpo said:

Educate yourself




Id start with a google search or finding an entertainment lawyer whos willing to give you some of their time (they are everywhere).


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18795294 - 09/03/13 04:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Ah, I was a bit off about that. I still fail to see how there is any trickery though. Densmore was skeptical about the merits of hip-hop and Jay Z gave an argument. You're just being a bit foolish I think.


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #18795295 - 09/03/13 04:55 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

If you sampled someone's song, but only long enough that your sample can't be recognized, then what's the point?  It would have to be a fraction of a second, because someone can and will name that song in one note. 
















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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: jewunit] * 1
    #18795319 - 09/03/13 05:02 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

jewunit said:
I still fail to see how there is any trickery though. Densmore was skeptical about the merits of hip-hop and Jay Z gave an argument.




I just think Jay Z kinda worked him by appealing to him in a way that John could understand, even though it wasn't true.  Public Enemy and Ice T fought against the man.  Jay Z, who is a great rapper, don't get me wrong, talked about money, cash and hoes.  I think John didn't understand hip hop enough to know the difference.  Just my opinion.














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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18795323 - 09/03/13 05:04 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

that's missing the point... you can also change the sample into something new. you could also use a bit that is recognizable, but not use it as a hook or a prevalent part of the song, but maybe use it an artful, and maybe slightly subtle way. the less obtuse the better, because essentially, you're not TRYING to rip off the artist you're sampling, typically; and that's the point.

if it makes a "statement" and you're not just trying to use someone else's "idea" or "work" to say it's original for your artwork; but instead make it work for your art as a statement (parody, message or comment in correlation with where the sample is from; ask why) or as a wholly manipulated section of music, that has no context from any body of work you may have took said sample(s) from... :shrug:

it's not about using a piece of music that's recognizable, it's about making a point... a statement.

these hip hip guys are making a couple points i can see... firstly, apparently they seem to wanna say "hey, look Rap is cool and all, but look at these old school classics, they can be worked right into our Rap songs and it stills sounds like cool Rap. look at both things are similar, go people, and find out some old school music like this classic shit! doesn't it sound dope?"

secondly, it's like look, they're saying "hey, it seems that you CAN take whole sections of other songs, and rework them into entirely different arrangements of music for other genres; AND make it a success. double standards of the music business bitches!"

:shrug:


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #18795396 - 09/03/13 05:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

You're trying to sell me on sampling, but I'm already sold.  I like most sampling and I understand why people do it.  The question is whether or not you can use a portion of someone else's music in your music without paying.  The answer is no.  There's a documentary on the history of sampling on Netflix.  You should watch it.  DJs talk about actually playing a game with samples.  They try to see how many they can get away with without the owner(s) of the copyrighted song realizing it.  Because as soon as they realize it, the DJ has to pay. 















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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18795654 - 09/03/13 06:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

um, cool? no, people shouldn't HAVE TO pay anything. sorry, i disagree with you, wholeheartedly. i'm not really pantomime in my regard for music. i don't care if music makes money, i like it just how it is. thanks.

the Doors were ahead of the curve, though, were't they? cept Densmore of course.

haha, that Densmore.


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #18795772 - 09/03/13 06:48 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Copyright laws are bullshit. You shouldn't own an arrangement of sound just because you were the first to arrange it that way. Five to one has a cool riff and anyone should be able to do what they want with it. Fuck censorship.


--------------------
[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #18795783 - 09/03/13 06:51 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

TheFakeSunRa said:
Copyright laws are bullshit. You shouldn't own an arrangement of sound just because you were the first to arrange it that way. Five to one has a cool riff and anyone should be able to do what they want with it. Fuck censorship.



intellectual property is one thing... owning notes? arrangements? and sounds? :lol:

no, that is beyond stupid, and the fact that people can't see this is because they'll blindly follow any reason to facilitate control.


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: jewunit]
    #18795883 - 09/03/13 07:10 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

jewunit said:
It's okay, he gave him a tee shirt for it.



a tall tee I'm sure


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #18795980 - 09/03/13 07:30 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Fuck musicians making any money! Lets make everything they do wholey free so they can be even more destitute than they already are! Vibrations in the air are worthless and cannot be owned! Solidified vibrations like GOD CELLPHONE worth 550$ though!!


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: twighead]
    #18796046 - 09/03/13 07:45 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

twighead said:
Fuck musicians making any money! Lets make everything they do wholey free so they can be even more destitute than they already are! Vibrations in the air are worthless and cannot be owned! Solidified vibrations like GOD CELLPHONE worth 550$ though!!



we're talking about sampling, here.

and we're not talking about vibrations in the air, either. i was, at least, referring to the fact that owning a series of notes, is not possible; and if you wanna argue for that, then i'd have to say... that's remarkably stupid.

just like trademarking the Happy Birthday song. that shit is just not anything more then Big-Wig, greedy fuckery by people who don't care about music, or about anything but the almighty dollar... and those people can be fucked in the ass with pineapples before they get their eyes raked out by weasels.


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18796079 - 09/03/13 07:53 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I think all sampling should be illegal, indeed even the thought illegal - I hate always hearing some new house track or another that's the same stupid 4x4 beat just with some added on samples of actually good musicians from the 60s that gets super popular.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: twighead]
    #18796095 - 09/03/13 07:58 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

i hate when people try and control music. it's sickening, and berating.

plus, there continues to be music that is as good as and better than the music from the 60's because those same musicians influences and played with newer musicians who then carried on many a legacy, and became many a spiritual successor.

sampling in music is just a new invention to help people, across the board, make new innovations in music. just because it's not your "thing" doesn't mean you or anyone else should have control over music and musicians directions.

NEVER.

and it won't happen as long as musicians who really love music, won't stand for it.


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18796128 - 09/03/13 08:05 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Well I decided I really love it, then I sat down - where's your theory now?

Would you sample a new car?

Didn't think so.

Now pay your RIAA fees or its to the bank with thee!


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan] * 3
    #18796187 - 09/03/13 08:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
Well I mean, I think it's fine if you want to rap over my song, but if you want to make money on it, you better pay me.  But to answer your question, music is a commodity like anything else.  Why should be you be able to own anything? 





You should be able to own tangible goods to stop people from taking them away from you. If you buy a car and the car is in your possession than it's your car. You own the car. However you don't own the idea of an internal combustion engine that's property of the human race, indeed the entire universe.

Music, to my mind, is an idea. You should not, again in my opinion, be allowed to own ideas in any way shape or form. I disagree with the idea of a "music industry." and completely agree that all music should be shared for free.

Personally I think the only thing you owe the composer of a song is recognition. If you want to create a derived work from "their" song or sample it you should be required to say who's work it's derived from, to give the listener the opportunity to go and listen to the "original." But you should not be required to remunerate them for it.

As far as I'm conered you should only pay for goods and services, not ideas.
  • If I want to see a metallica concert I'll pay to see the concert (a service.)
  • If I want to see a band cover metallica songs, I'll pay to see that (and I don't think they [the covering band] should owe metallica a cent for it)
  • If I want to buy a metallic shirt I'll buy it (a good) and the person who made it deserves the money, not the band on which it's based, unless the band is the one making and selling the shirts.
  • and finally if I want to listen to a metallica song I'll download it for free, of course paying my ISP fee to do so. (service) I don't think metallica deserves that money or royalties of any kind for their idea. My speakers are making the song by disturbing the air pressure around them, not metallica.


I will not pay for an idea because, to my mind, ideas are public domain end of story. But this is just the way I feel about it. Obviously there are loads of people who think that people deserve compensation and remuneration for the usage of their ideas and while I don't agree with it, they're entitled to this viewpoint.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: twighead]
    #18796201 - 09/03/13 08:20 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

um, actually, ya, i would. i wouldn't buy a car i never handled before. :lol:

and just because you sat down, doesn't mean i will.

you can continue to think that "your favorites" reach beyond the skies, and that everyone's trying to soil the good name of what music you like.

music is continuously getting better and better when people don't follow that particular lead. thank God, for it too. i don't know what i'd do listening to all the puerile (word of the day!1) fiends constantly trying to re-create the 60's with the most stereotypical viewpoint on it all, all of it up to this point.

Dr.Dog... love 'em? Elephant collective bands? do you actually like any of the new "pseudo" psychedelic era music? i mean, it's good shit, it's just the same idea as the old days too. talent. writing good catchy songs with some analog equipment, pure and simple. you can't say with music like this, that music simply defunct now.

it's just simply not true; and that's besides the point... nobody should be able to "own" musicianship of anykind. it's people like these kinda of people, that will end up homogenizing the whole idea of original music.

that's why sampling is awesome. cause no one can say that any one thing belongs to them solely, outside of their own composition. it's a step in the fight against crazy, purist, wanna-be, rogue, controllers of what they want to cocked-at for the rest of their life, people who just want declaration and imposition.


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18796217 - 09/03/13 08:23 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I'm for a happy medium. I think copyright laws exist, in part, for good intentions.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: jewunit]
    #18796253 - 09/03/13 08:29 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

yeah, to prevent piracy, sure. it's fair, but it's a stupid way to handle a fiscal repartee to the artist.

musicians should start putting music up on their own websites for digital sale. avoids the whole piracy issue.


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #18796393 - 09/03/13 08:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

i don't think music should be lawfully free, but i do think that pirating it shouldn't be illegal. i think copyright (in the case of a musician profiting from someone else's works)is a fair thing, though.


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18796464 - 09/03/13 09:07 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Piracy isn't really what I was thinking of. Using other people's music can be an issue.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: jewunit]
    #18796466 - 09/03/13 09:07 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

how? what are the stipulations, from your point of view?


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18796477 - 09/03/13 09:09 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

If I write a song, and then you blatantly take my song and present it as your own, that's not okay in my book.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: jewunit]
    #18796490 - 09/03/13 09:12 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

no duh, eh? c'mon, obviously you can't just steal and pass off someone else's composition as your own. :lol: no one ever in history will be debating that.


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18796514 - 09/03/13 09:18 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Well, someone said copyright laws were bullshit and some people seemed to agree.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: jewunit]
    #18796526 - 09/03/13 09:19 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

we're talking about sampling people's music. not outright using whole songs, as your own. :lol:


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18796557 - 09/03/13 09:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

That's all well and good, but SunRa specifically said copyright laws are bullshit, and I am disagreeing. This isn't really that hard to understand for you, is it akira?


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: jewunit]
    #18796567 - 09/03/13 09:23 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

well, he's right. they are bullshit, they don't account for the fact of people's right to share music with other people. for example. i'm sure you'd agree that simply allowing someone to hear someone's music without them paying for it, shouldn't be illegal.

PS: and it is hard to understand if you don't reply to him, instead of me. no offence.


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18796578 - 09/03/13 09:25 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Okay, so some are bullshit and some are not. There, I didn't think I'd have to clarify that, but I'll do it for you baby :heart:

PS: Yeah, I can understand that, but I didn't think I would have to explain it twice.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: jewunit]
    #18796650 - 09/03/13 09:33 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

you didn't have to explain anything once, if you had actually been responding to him.

dur.

and you know, what if you're gonna state something, make it clear.


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18796658 - 09/03/13 09:34 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

It was pretty clear actually. I'm for a happy medium. I don't think that's vague at all. BUT ENOUGH you're just arguing to argue.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: jewunit]
    #18796737 - 09/03/13 09:48 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

or so you'd think. i'm just responding to you. i'm responding to you with asking and answering you questions, and you can't be clear enough so that's what happens. if you think i'm arguing, you're mistaken.


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18796825 - 09/03/13 10:03 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
no duh, eh? c'mon, obviously you can't just steal and pass off someone else's composition as your own. :lol: no one ever in history will be debating that.




Imo that's immoral but shouldn't be illegal.


--------------------
[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #18796836 - 09/03/13 10:04 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

well, i think jewunit wants to talk to you about that. i on the other hand just simply don't care about money making schemes. i'd just like music to be free and clear.


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18796998 - 09/03/13 10:30 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I don't really see how I could have been any more clear :lol:

The reply to function shouldn't be the beginning and end of your world. You were engaged in conversation with him, so clearly you know what he said. It shouldn't be that hard to figure out a perfectly clear statement just because I replied to one of the multiple people having the conversation.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: jewunit]
    #18797017 - 09/03/13 10:32 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

now who's continuing to argue about things. :icanthearyou:


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Invisiblejewunit
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18797022 - 09/03/13 10:34 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I am. I'm riled up, and when I am I argue with people on the internet. It's my release. A really shitty one too, because I usually just end up more frustrated. Hence this unwieldy post count.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: jewunit]
    #18797094 - 09/03/13 10:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

it's good to be honest.


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Dawks]
    #18797108 - 09/03/13 10:52 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Dawks said:
I don't really like how people are allowed to own music. Doesn't seem right to me. If some guy wants to "rap" over the top of your song, so what? I think it's silly you need permission for that.




True. As much as I don't think Jay Z is fighting authority like The Doors, I agree what the fuck is the point of needing permission. A person owns the rights to their song? Why not, but the fact remains that if someone changes the song and takes full credit for taking a piece of the original and changing it, it's no longer the original.


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan] * 1
    #18797144 - 09/03/13 11:02 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Music should be free for everyone, support the artists you enjoy and if you want to see more of them put a little money in to fund there projects.People who copy other people's stuff hardly get recognition anyway and they suck.


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OfflineThe Vapor
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: something super extreme] * 1
    #18797424 - 09/04/13 12:02 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

sVs said:
Who gives two shits and a sideways fuck?
Clearly he didn't have as much of an issue with selling his music as you have with him selling his music.

What I find more appalling than some shitty rapper using someone else's music is the amount of overzealous reverence some people have for nearly equally shitty music.




Do you have any other tricks or are you just going to keep doing this one for the duration of your stay?


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: The Vapor]
    #18797443 - 09/04/13 12:06 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

doing what? pointing out the reasoning behind people's ludicrous redundancies, they have themselves?


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OfflineThe Vapor
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18797604 - 09/04/13 12:47 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
doing what? pointing out the reasoning behind people's ludicrous redundancies, they have themselves?




Nah, just trying so hard to be edgy.

:lol:


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InvisibleAlmostAsCoolAs
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: something super extreme]
    #18798406 - 09/04/13 08:55 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

sVs said:
Why? Because you place ill-informed importance on the sanctity of intellectual property, or some equally absurd rubbish?
I'm sure you wouldn't have even made this post if shitty hippy band X had used shitty hippy band Y's song for some purpose. You're just upset that someone you don't like used a song in a manner that you don't like. Boo hoo.



This.

You guys are seriously such a bunch of close minded hippies. And this is coming from someone who hates Jay-Z.


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: AlmostAsCoolAs]
    #18798421 - 09/04/13 09:00 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

That's why I don't ignore sVs, he has little gems hidden in the rough.


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Konyap]
    #18798434 - 09/04/13 09:07 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

He may troll a lot but he actually seems like a fairly intelligent person.


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Offlinelowbrow
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: imachavel]
    #18798655 - 09/04/13 10:30 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
[but the fact remains that if someone changes the song and takes full credit for taking a piece of the original and changing it, it's no longer the original.




Then your no longer making original art, your piggybacking off of someone else's creativity and calling it your own.  That is mediocrity at its finest. 

In fact, this whole thread is full of people defending mediocrity.


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Invisiblejewunit
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: lowbrow] * 1
    #18798660 - 09/04/13 10:32 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

No, you're piggybacking off someone's creativity, calling it your own, and crediting them. This is also the way in which almost all music exists and was created. It's pretty hard to have a completely original idea in what is a very limited system (particularly western music).


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: jewunit]
    #18799119 - 09/04/13 12:57 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

jewunit said:
No, you're piggybacking off someone's creativity, calling it your own, and crediting them. This is also the way in which almost all music exists and was created. It's pretty hard to have a completely original idea in what is a very limited system (particularly western music).




They dont always get credited.  There's a difference between being inspired, and ripping off the artist entirely and adding some nursery rhymes and calling it your own.  But if they paid the original artist for the opportunity to do this, whatever.  But falsely representing oneself as somebody fighting the system to aquire the rights, when in fact they(J Z) is one of the biggest tools going, is downright bullshit.


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Amanita86 said:
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: The Vapor]
    #18799421 - 09/04/13 02:18 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The Vapor said:
Quote:

sVs said:
Who gives two shits and a sideways fuck?
Clearly he didn't have as much of an issue with selling his music as you have with him selling his music.

What I find more appalling than some shitty rapper using someone else's music is the amount of overzealous reverence some people have for nearly equally shitty music.




Do you have any other tricks or are you just going to keep doing this one for the duration of your stay?




Do you ever fucking have anything mildly relevant to add, or are you going to continue talking about edginess and some such other stupid shit for the rest of time? Worse than a broken record.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: lowbrow]
    #18800028 - 09/04/13 04:48 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

lowbrow said:
Quote:

imachavel said:
[but the fact remains that if someone changes the song and takes full credit for taking a piece of the original and changing it, it's no longer the original.




Then your no longer making original art, your piggybacking off of someone else's creativity and calling it your own.  That is mediocrity at its finest. 

In fact, this whole thread is full of people defending mediocrity.



LOL, another Jimi fan for sure.


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Dawks]
    #18800080 - 09/04/13 04:59 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Don't you hate when you come back to a thread and it would take you half a day to respond to everyone?  I guess I'll just make my stance clear to everyone.  I understand if you all don't agree.  It's okay.

- First off, I do not pay for music.  I download it for free.  I want to make that very clear.  I think all music should be free unless the listener wants to pay for it.  And if people want to pay for music, I respect that a lot and think the artist should be paid for it. 

- Second, I think artists should be paid when their music is sampled only if the sampler is going to sell the song.  Just because you alter someone's song, doesn't mean you've made it all your own.  What if you made a song and released it and sold five copies.  Then what if I alter a TINY part of your song, "sampled" 99.9% of your song, released it, and for some reason made ten million dollars.  You wouldn't want some of that ten million? 












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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18800155 - 09/04/13 05:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

no one does that, though, Leary. literally, no one does, will, and even can. it's illegal to do so.

"if only the sampler sells the song" < this shows your misunderstanding.

a "sampler" would never pull a sample of something that would be so obviously a part of another persons songs, to use in a song that' for sale, OR otherwise.

that guy/girl isn't a "sampler"; just a thief.

"sampling" is using tidbits of sound which cannot be correlated between any other artists. only Rap "artists" sample classic rock beyond THEIR MEANS... and usually it's the sucky ones.

the good ones (the rest of them, really) sample bits all the time for loops in their tracks... but that's it, literally a drum loop, or a line from a movie and that's it. anything like what Jay-Z did was an example of some rare garbage idea for a rap song, to help either identify with classic rock (in a very boring manner) or the help sell more records to kids who like classic rock and rap at the same time. (another rarity, but maybe that was the goal?)

either way, most Hip-Hop artists and Electronica artists don't pull samples that they'd have to clear anyways, and if they do... it's usually a single line from a movie or a drum beat put to a loop. you know how many drum loops there are? you realize that most drums kinda sound similar right? i mean, note wise, you know, snare, bass drum, toms, hi-hat/crashes/ride all in a pattern. nothing much changes. :shrug: hence sampling drums is hardly a chance to promote your music using other people's "work" considering when most drummmers drum, they're drummering based on they learned how to drum, based on their influences, which then dictate how their drumming is going to sound, and hence drum parts often sound very familiar to one other if you look closely enough to similarities, but where the similarities end, is usually in the case of an extra note or two added, or an extra beat, or timing. all those things can make a drum beat go from something known already, to something new and different. just with a few notes. :shrug: this is hardly stealing, no on complains about it, because it's unavoidable anyways.


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18800193 - 09/04/13 05:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
no one does that, though, Leary. literally, no one does, will, and even can. it's illegal to do so.




But you don't think sampling should be illegal.  Jay Z used the beat from "Five To One".  So let's say he used 30% of that song for his song and you don't think he should have to pay for it.  All I did was take that logic to the extreme.  What if he had the entire song (100%) playing in the background of his song?  Should he have to pay for it then?  Where do you draw the line between sampling and stealing? 

 



Quote:

akira_akuma said:
a "sampler" would never pull a sample of something that would be so obviously a part of another persons songs, to use in a song that' for sale, OR otherwise.




But the beat from "Five To One" is very recognizable.  And people sample extremely recognizable beats all the time.















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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18800220 - 09/04/13 05:33 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

not the point. i'm talking about composing a song. there will ALWAYS be recognizable similarities in music, and wholly un-intentional ones. i hear things that sound like other things all the time. doesn't mean they were stolen.

that's where i draw the line. just because someone randomly made a beat with simple enough composition that it can be heard in any 4/4 drum beat, doesn't mean they should be able to copyright and deny people to right to use a simple piece of composition that would (and will) come out of any artist, anyways.

think about it... if i made a song that had simple 4 chord bar, in G, strum on the half note (because hey, i'm trying to be original here) does this mean, this simple composition that a child can innately play from heart, should be copywritten by me, and held the title as "original work by akira_akuma"?

:shrug:

PS:


uses the drums from When The Levee Breaks. wholly original drum beat and one of the best, doesn't mean that this beat won't randomly pop out of my drums by accident, trying to follow a bandmates improv over the song, randomly, because we kick it like that. if there is one single solitary thing different, it's not Bono's beat anymore, but lets for the sake of argument, say i use it exactly like it is... does he or Led Zeppelin get to sue me?


Edited by akira_akuma (09/04/13 05:39 PM)


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18800239 - 09/04/13 05:37 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not talking about songs that sound similar.  I'm talking about using someone's actual music in your music.  What portion of their song can you use from their song in your song before you have to pay?  From 1%-100%? 

















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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18800261 - 09/04/13 05:43 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

any amount that isn't stealing.

that's the point. parts have accents, tracks go on top of tracks, pieces go on top of pieces, to make new pieces.

if someone takes a sample of a piece of music that could easily be replicated anyways, that isn't stealing, that's just creative engineering, at the most. if someone took a whole part of the Doors with Morrison singing "c'mon baby light my fire" and all the parts are in the sample, bass, keys, drums, guitar and all, then i'd say you have room for speculation here.

that's different. that's just taking The Doors actual "sound" and using it for yourself.

a PIECE of music though, is entirely different, because just because you can recognize "a piece of music" doesn't mean that it's "yours" or belonging to anyone. again, i have to ask, does the G chord belong to anyone? i hear alot of people use it and i can sample from many an artist using it if i sample a g chord from a Neil Young song, but liken it more then sound of the G from the Tom Petty song, which one do i pay? of course, the one i took it from, but now, does it matter anymore, that i pay?









or an even better question... when i sample the G chord from a song, who should come sue me first? (rhetorical, ignore this Leary. just answer me that question above. who should i ask permission for using the sample of the G chord? used as the basis for alot of riffs by alot of artists; alot of those riffs sound wholly recognizable, and similar too)

PS: i'll paraphrase someone else to help solidify my point here.

"I think there's a distinct difference between chord progressions and riffs. What makes blues "bluesy" are those chord progressions, and what makes bands like Blinkn 182 sound the way they do are chord progressions. There's nothing wrong with using a chord progression that someone else has used. Besides, with the number of notes present on a guitar, it's only a matter of time before someone stumbles upon the same chord progression used by someone else, because there are a finite number of chords and progressions.

Stealing a melody, though... That's totally different. That's not right. I haven't noticed many of those."

^ same thing applies to sampling. if you're sampling a part of a song that is replicable, it's not stealing. if you're sampling an entire portion of an "artists sound" (all pieces AT ONCE) then, i'd call it stealing, and wholly uncreative.


Edited by akira_akuma (09/04/13 05:53 PM)


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18800308 - 09/04/13 05:55 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

uses the drums from When The Levee Breaks. wholly original drum beat and one of the best, doesn't mean that this beat won't randomly pop out of my drums by accident, trying to follow a bandmates improv over the song, randomly, because we kick it like that. if there is one single solitary thing different, it's not Bono's beat anymore, but lets for the sake of argument, say i use it exactly like it is... does he or Led Zeppelin get to sue me?




Rhymin and stealin uses the drum beat to when the levee breaks mashed with the guitar riff from sweet leaf. That's like fucking a bitch's mouth and her cunt at the same time. And those old hip hop records by biz markee and de la soul wouldn't even be possible with the faggy copyright laws of today.


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[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18800318 - 09/04/13 05:58 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

You keep thinking I'm talking about copying notes and progressions.  I'm talking about flat out cutting and pasting someone else's music into your music.  Maybe you're not familiar with the situation or something.  Here's "Five To One" by The Doors, followed by Jay Z's "The Takeover".  Listen to both.  Jay Z's song isn't similar.  He's actually using The Doors' song
















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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18800326 - 09/04/13 06:01 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

yeah, i'm giving you immense proportion of my time to explain various reasons why your reasoning for denying Jay-Z to use samples is faulty.

there is simply an communication barrier here. (if you'd prefer, Communication Breakdown, it's always the same.)

seriously, you shouldnt be able to own piece of musical composition. only whole songs. anymore questions? if you sample someone's work, and it's not wholly recognizable as their SONG, who is stealing anything?
( and if people could OWN pieces of composition, not only would everything that sounds good already be "OWNED" but from then on, no one would be able to make original music without using melodies and patterns that are completely haphazard; all done to avoid using another persons "piece of a composition". whether you're talking about owning the creation of said "melodies" or you're talking about the sampling of them. it's the same difference.)

i suppose you're gonna make distinct a difference between my explanation here, and your question; saying that you're talking about sampling someone else's music, not using piece of composition, but i'll tell you that it's the same thing.

if i used a sample from a song, and DIDN'T tell the artist, i used it, that would be illegal. now, I ASK, WHY? how in the hell can me sampling a G chord from someone's song (which is in MANY songs BTW) be illegal? if no one can tell the difference, why should i make anyone aware, if i don't want to? and why should it matter? why SHOULD it be illegal, when i'm not stealing anyone's material?
Example:


Edited by akira_akuma (09/04/13 06:23 PM)


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan] * 1
    #18800339 - 09/04/13 06:04 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah I like that jay z song. He samples on old doors classic. So what? Do you think that song shouldn't be allowed to exist unless John Densmore is ok with it?


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[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #18800374 - 09/04/13 06:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

guys, i just copyrighted the song i made, with that 4/4 Jazz Ride i used. no more Jazz for you!1 i'll sue if you use ding ding-ding-ding ding-ding.

:ripebanana:


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18800398 - 09/04/13 06:19 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
guys, i just copyrighted the song i made, with that 4/4 Jazz Ride i used. no more Jazz for you!1 i'll sue if you use ding ding-ding-ding ding-ding.

:ripebanana:



Quote:

akira_akuma said:
guys, i just copyrighted the song i made, with that 4/4 Jazz Ride i used. no more Jazz for you!1 i'll sue if you use ding ding-ding-ding ding-ding.

:ripebanana:



Quote:

akira_akuma said:
guys, i just copyrighted the song i made, with that 4/4 Jazz Ride i used. no more Jazz for you!1 i'll sue if you use ding ding-ding-ding ding-ding.

:ripebanana:




I'm sampling your post and you can't do anything about it!


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[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #18800405 - 09/04/13 06:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

:cultureclash:

:crankey:


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #18800406 - 09/04/13 06:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
if you sample someone's work, and it's not wholly recognizable as their SONG, who is stealing anything?




But the Doors' sample is recognizable!  It's very recognizable!  Can we agree on that?  Okay, so it's recognizable.  We both agree.  So why shouldn't Jay Z have to pay The Doors for using their music. 

And please, I understand what you're saying about similar musical progressions, etc.  But that has absolutely nothing to do with what we're talking about.  Did you listen to those two songs that I posted?  Jay Z did not make a beat that sounded like The Doors.  It was The Doors!  That's the whole point of this thread! 






Quote:

TheFakeSunRa said:
Yeah I like that jay z song. He samples on old doors classic. So what? Do you think that song shouldn't be allowed to exist unless John Densmore is ok with it?




No, only if Jay Z is going to sell it.  Which he did.  If he didn't sell it, then do whatever you want.














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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18800430 - 09/04/13 06:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
guys, i just copyrighted the song i made, with that 4/4 Jazz Ride i used. no more Jazz for you!1 i'll sue if you use ding ding-ding-ding ding-ding.

:ripebanana:




You don't know what sampling is, do you?  It all makes sense now.  No offense, but I'm just figuring out why we aren't communicating at all.  You have no idea what sampling is. 

















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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18800439 - 09/04/13 06:30 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I don't think either of you are having a coherent conversation anymore, and I've yet to see you post anything about why sampling is bad. Just being butthurt because Jay Z sampled a song you like a little too much.


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18800443 - 09/04/13 06:31 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

he used a sample. a sample in which wasn't owned by the Doors. their composition is owned, not the samples in with which Jay-Z made the beat. the samples are arranged in a particularly different melody then the original Doors song; and none of the samples match up cohesively to make any one piece of the Doors composition. the only recognizable parts is maybe the fact of the harmony between the bass note and the kick drum, and the fact of Morrison's wailing in the background. sounds like any blues crooner at that point; you can't even barely recognize the lyrics he's saying, and all he's really saying is "oh baby yeah"

i see no stealing here. Jay-Z did him a professional courtesy by even contacting him.
Quote:

Learyfan said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
guys, i just copyrighted the song i made, with that 4/4 Jazz Ride i used. no more Jazz for you!1 i'll sue if you use ding ding-ding-ding ding-ding.

:ripebanana:




You don't know what sampling is, do you?  It all makes sense now.  No offense, but I'm just figuring out why we aren't communicating at all.  You have no idea what sampling is. 





no, i just have told in so many different ways, and you still don't get it. confusion. it happens. :shrug:

i can only tell you so many times. unless it's a whole composition one is sampling, it's not stealing. :shrug: and you shouldn't have to pay, because YOU OWN THE SAMPLES.


Edited by akira_akuma (09/04/13 06:38 PM)


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18800452 - 09/04/13 06:33 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
guys, i just copyrighted the song i made, with that 4/4 Jazz Ride i used. no more Jazz for you!1 i'll sue if you use ding ding-ding-ding ding-ding.

:ripebanana:




You don't know what sampling is, do you?  It all makes sense now.  No offense, but I'm just figuring out why we aren't communicating at all.  You have no idea what sampling is. 





says the person talking about ownership of a song, not sampling. :lol:



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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18800475 - 09/04/13 06:40 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
unless it's a whole composition one is sampling, it's not stealing. :shrug:




Okay, so what if it's 99% that one is sampling?  Is that stealing?  And don't say that no one does that.  I'm asking a hypothetical question. 
















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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18800520 - 09/04/13 06:53 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:






That tortured version completely sounds like SHIT, but I guess it was supposed to...:icanthearyou: . . . :peace:


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: vinsue]
    #18800564 - 09/04/13 07:05 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
I'm not talking about songs that sound similar.  I'm talking about using someone's actual music in your music.  What portion of their song can you use from their song in your song before you have to pay?  From 1%-100%?



PS: YOU ARE talking about SOUNDS that SOUND SIMILAR however. again, i'll use this example.

Quote:

just because someone randomly made a beat with simple enough composition that it can be heard in any 4/4 drum beat, doesn't mean they should be able to copyright and deny people to right to use a simple piece of composition that would (and will) come out of any artist, anyways.




^

now if i had a copyright to this.

i could prevent people from sampling my beat. however. it would be pointless (to me especially, being that i don't care about trying to making money of off "copyrights" which have nothing to do with anyone stealing anything but that's besides my point...) it would be pointless to have copy right over it, because it's a simple thing that would be replicated in any amount by anyone trying to make any kind of simple rock beat... but lets say that i do...

it wouldn't be possible for anyone to sample "my work" without it sounding exactly the same as what i did, and what i've copyrighted.

now, if anyone did though, i'd have no way of proving it was mine by simply hearing it. i'd have to look up sample's data, to even begin to look into any give aways as to the tracking of said part of said song, that was sampled. (if there was any chance of that anyways; i mean hardly anything can be determined by looking at a sample other then maybe when it was made, which i guess could be seen as proof, that why you have copyright laws protecting your songs. certainly not pieces of it though, thankfully. i hate hypotheticals.)

lets say hypothetically because
Quote:

i don't care about trying to making money of off "copyrights" which have nothing to do with anyone stealing anything




lets say hypothetically that i don't care to look up any "data", i will decide upon hearing it, to proclaim if it was mine or not. i could do that, but it wouldn't mean anything, because it's a simple piece of music can be easily replicated anywhere.

but lets say i'm a dick, and i decide that it was my music afterall, then i look up the data, and oop there it is... tracking from a certain RIP, and look at the title and track time and SHOCK it's my song that i copyrighted!1 (you'd have to look up entire libraries of tracks and data to determine anything, boy i must have been having hot flashes when i typed this, Jesus. hypotheticals.)

now i have the right to insist that this production is no viable for sale, because it had the simple piece of composition that i worked very little at, and copyrighted. how is that right, in anyway for anyone, but someone who is simply trying to make money of their indulgence in a Law.

this isn't about music. this is about money.

music isn't a commodity, and never will be, because it's all too easy to arrange sounds and even pieces of composition, that sound alike. so to treat it like one, by making Sampling prohibited without incurring royalties to the "origin" of the piece of composition; makes music and musicians worse off, because it narrows the compositional decisions you can make, because afterall, someone else will have always made a piece of similar music before you, and if you can copyright those pieces of music, you make it unavailable to anyone else. whether you are writing it yourself, or taking sample of someone else's song.

it's the EXACT SAME DEVICE.

it's wrong in either or capacity.
Quote:

vinsue said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:






That tortured version completely sounds like SHIT, but I guess it was supposed to...:icanthearyou: . . . :peace:



exactly. (the tortured version :lol: )


Edited by akira_akuma (09/04/13 11:43 PM)


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18800605 - 09/04/13 07:16 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
guys, i just copyrighted the song i made, with that 4/4 Jazz Ride i used. no more Jazz for you!1 i'll sue if you use ding ding-ding-ding ding-ding.

:ripebanana:




You don't know what sampling is, do you?  It all makes sense now.  No offense, but I'm just figuring out why we aren't communicating at all.  You have no idea what sampling is. 




















I hate to tell you this but akira not only understands sampling better than you do he knows way more about music in general. You're not even remotely in his league.


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18800639 - 09/04/13 07:25 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
unless it's a whole composition one is sampling, it's not stealing. :shrug:




Okay, so what if it's 99% that one is sampling?  Is that stealing?  And don't say that no one does that.  I'm asking a hypothetical question. 


















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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18800691 - 09/04/13 07:40 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
unless it's a whole composition one is sampling, it's not stealing. :shrug:




Okay, so what if it's 99% that one is sampling?  Is that stealing?  And don't say that no one does that.  I'm asking a hypothetical question. 


















round up. 99% is really awfully close to 100. yes, it's stealing.

Jay-Z didn't use any where near that amount of a song in his song.

he used a couple pieces of the beginning of the song he sampled, and rearranged them. if you wanna use a percentage, i'd say... what... 10-20% :shrug:not the figures actually matter.


Edited by akira_akuma (09/04/13 07:49 PM)


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18800732 - 09/04/13 07:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
yes, it's stealing.




What if he used 98% of the song?  Would that be stealing or sampling?
















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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18800758 - 09/04/13 07:58 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

stealing. where are you going with this line of reasoning?

in the case of cheesy pop music like Jay z i would agree that he shouldn't have done it, but who am i to say what has artistic merit to Jay z? i think i actually saw his point in using juxtaposing genres of music in his work, to expand his sound.

however you don't understand the artistic scope of using samples, to be blunt.


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18800790 - 09/04/13 08:04 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Stay with me, Akira.  You're doing fine.  Now how about.......90%.  Would it be stealing or sampling if he used that much of the song? 















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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18800801 - 09/04/13 08:08 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

it's irrelevant. you see? you're talking about intellectual property ownership. you're not talking about sampling. you're just paraphrasing. don't get the two terms confused, when you wanna make a point about Jay-Z being a poser, or about Rap sucking or whatever it is you're really posting about.


oh and Mozart did it to. that and every other major classical composer has taken from other people's works.

copyright laws, at this point, are a farce; and they always will be with the attitude that people own musicianship. :facepalm:

you did good Leary.


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18800815 - 09/04/13 08:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

No, you said it was sampling unless you used the entire song.  Then you deviated down to 98%, which isn't the entire song.  Now come on.  Is using 90% of a song stealing or sampling?  Please.
















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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18800829 - 09/04/13 08:18 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I hate Jay Z, i have no problem with sampling songs though. I think music and art in general should be public domain.


It isn't like that is even one of Jay Z's more popular songs anyway. I just looked it up and shit i could flow better than that :shrug:


If you want to get pissed off just remember this jerkoff is richer than you could ever imagine to be.



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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18800895 - 09/04/13 08:37 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

this is why Morrison went bananas, he was so afraid of people sampling his music!1

oh the horror!1 my moral shareholders bankrupted!1 WOE!!! WOEEEE WAS MEEEEEEE *stuffs Peyote into his gut and melts*
Quote:

Learyfan said:
No, you said it was sampling unless you used the entire song.  Then you deviated down to 98%, which isn't the entire song.  Now come on.  Is using 90% of a song stealing or sampling?  Please.



















like i said, i'm rounding up, if it'd help you in your definition of the boundaries of your logic that you don't want anyone skipping over.

you want to come to en passe? lets stop playing rhetorical mind games.

i won't round up, because you're reasoning for telling me "i'm deviating" has nothing to do with sampling. it has to with the fact that you think the Doors has been infringed on.

stealing is taking someone's song and passing it off as your own. you know how Led Zeppelin did that? they were a major cause for the laws to be as strict as they now, because they ACTUALLY infringed on other people's work by composing pieces that sounded almost exactly alike.

that's stealing.

now in the case of sampling, this is another matter entirely. no one is stealing, per se, but they (according to you) should have to pay money to the artist's music you've sampled.

this isn't stealing however, because they are not stealing actual songs. this is where your logic ends. let me explain how sampling is distinct from stealing, AGAIN.

when you sample pieces of music... you are essentially using pieces of other artist's composition's. not the whole thing. hence, it isn't steal. let me re-iterate... because you have no stolen and passed off other people's work as your own, you're NOT STEALING.

now onto the problem you have with sampling. you think that if you sample even a certain amount of anyone's work, you are stealing if you don't pay them, correct? i am telling you, that you are wrong. not according to the law, but we all know how that discussion is gonna go, drugs politics, blah whatever...

YOU'RE NOT STEALING A WHOLE WORK, SO IT'S NOT PASSING OFF SOMEONE ELSE'S WORK AS YOUR OWN.

let me explain that concept.

because pieces of music... notes, progressions, types of composition, ect; are only part of a whole and not the whole of someone's individual work. it's not up for someone's pursuit for "intellectual property", because with the exchange of these pieces of composition, it would have made it impossible to keep track of any new pieces of work as you've have to use inane and awful sounding notes and composition to avoid any financial responsibility to the own of all the pieces of music.

again, i'll use classical music as an example; if classical musicians such as Mozart could have copyrighted their work [[if they wanted to]] they could have prevented anyone from ever making anything original again, within a lifetime, simply making a work, copyrighting it, reframing and rearranging said composition into new arrays of notes and sequences, to make new songs to copyright ad nauseum until he had concluded that all his work up till a certain point was his and HIS ALONE. which would bar anyone from making music, in general, meaning, no [[the Doors]]. which is besides the point.

if you're sampling music, you're not stealing it, for sure. if you're sampling music and not paying the artist for a tid bit of a track that is separated from the other pieces of composition in a song, you're not stealing, and it's not a part of "their song, anymore".

to make the distinction here, if you sample a tid bit of a song that has the whole composition in it, such as a chorus line... a verse of lyrics... a cresendo or a main part, without rearranging it, you are stealing.

however, if you're rearranging it, it's being used a sequence of "notes and progressions" that aren't inherent to the original song hence, is NOT STEALING.


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18800937 - 09/04/13 08:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

there are just different schools of thought on this matter.

some people want music to only be about mop-top douches rocking out and being "the best evar, so much soul!" and about hipster wads trying to out-jazz anyone else with their endless barrages of notes on guitar, so they can give people a catalouge of crap to work off of, if they pay them.

:shrug:

some people don't care about being famous or making lots of money, and being relatively well-off, because they made a song, or an album or two, of good music; trying to live off of there whole lives.

some people want to just see and hear musicians strive for their music to be original and lauded as the awesome pieces of music that they are, without needed to be lauded as something important enough to sue over. :shrug2:


Edited by akira_akuma (09/04/13 08:52 PM)


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18800967 - 09/04/13 08:53 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)



how many pieces of music can you recognize already in this song? plenty! is it illegal? NOPE! :grin: did anyone have to pay?! NOPE!1 :smile: because you can't own "PIECES OF MUSIC". :gameover:


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18801055 - 09/04/13 09:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
if you're rearranging it, it's being used a sequence of "notes and progressions" that aren't inherent to the original song hence, is NOT STEALING.




So if I were to release an entire Doors album in full, except that each song has one second of noise other than what the original album had, in the middle of each song, then I should be able to legally sell that album to people as my own creation?  The songs are technically rearranged, because they are split in two by that one second of some other noise, and thus it's not stealing.  Yes or no. 















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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18801059 - 09/04/13 09:14 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
Is using 90% of a song stealing or sampling?




Who the hell samples 90% of a song?

Are we straw-manning here?


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Nimpo]
    #18801067 - 09/04/13 09:16 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Would using 90% of a song be stealing or sampling?  Answer the question. 
















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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18801078 - 09/04/13 09:18 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
Would using 90% of a song be stealing or sampling?  Answer the question. 




Are you daft?

Ill answer the question if you can find me a song that has sampled 20% or more of another song, and thats being generous with your hilarious 90%. With an average song thats 3 minutes long, I need to hear 36 seconds or more of the sampled song playing straight through (because looped bytes dont count).

Let me know. Please.


Edited by Nimpo (09/04/13 09:24 PM)


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Nimpo]
    #18801110 - 09/04/13 09:24 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Seeing is how I've gone on about this with him this long, I'm starting to wonder. 











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Edited by Learyfan (09/04/13 09:30 PM)


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Nimpo]
    #18801139 - 09/04/13 09:30 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Nimpo said:
Ill answer the question if you can find me a song that has sampled 20% or more of another song, and thats being generous with your hilarious 90%. With an average song thats 3 minutes long, I need to hear 36 seconds or more of the sampled song playing straight through (because looped bytes dont count).

Let me know. Please.




Thank you for the 20%.  Now we're getting somewhere. 

Now it doesn't matter if that song has been made yet.  Let's say you, Nimpo, get the final say on these laws today.  Would you rule that artists would need to be paid if 20% of their song was used in someone else's song? 















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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18801210 - 09/04/13 09:47 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
if you're rearranging it, it's being used a sequence of "notes and progressions" that aren't inherent to the original song hence, is NOT STEALING.




So if I were to release an entire Doors album in full, except that each song has one second of noise other than what the original album had, in the middle of each song, then I should be able to legally sell that album to people as my own creation?  The songs are technically rearranged, because they are split in two by that one second of some other noise, and thus it's not stealing.  Yes or no. 

















yes or no? ok, no.

that's not even close to what i was saying, BTW.

by re-arrange, i mean entirely. you can't just put a noise in the middle of the song, and then it's a different song? WTF are you talking about?


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18801225 - 09/04/13 09:50 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
by re-arrange, i mean entirely. you can't just put a noise in the middle of the song, and then it's a different song? WTF are you talking about?




If you're making the laws, then you have to be very, very specific about what you mean by "entirely". 
















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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18801274 - 09/04/13 10:00 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:

Would you rule that artists would need to be paid if 20% of their song was used in someone else's song? 





No, I wouldn't. Sampling should always be free. A sample is a sample. You seem to be trying to misconstrued the argument here but fact is no one has ever used a sample thats been 20% or more of someone elses song because then it wouldnt be a sample and thus throws your entire argument into the trash. This thread is about

Quote:

Learyfan said:
the remaining Doors allowed Jay Z to sample their song 'Five To One' in his song 'The Takeover'.




So we are talking about samples, not segments, which you keep trying to fast ball here but it aint working.

Heres an interesting read for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_(music)

Heres a fantastic song sampling two different parts of another song thats irrelevant to this thread but worth sharing cause its hip hop sampling a song from '67:

The song they sampled:


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18801318 - 09/04/13 10:09 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
by re-arrange, i mean entirely. you can't just put a noise in the middle of the song, and then it's a different song? WTF are you talking about?




If you're making the laws, then you have to be very, very specific about what you mean by "entirely". 


















yeah, well, i could... but you'd just ask more questions to verify that your confusion some more, and then i'd get pissed and have you annihilated.

Entirely: an entire song, or section of a song.

Definition: a piece of composition recognized wholly as another song, entirely.

yeah, Nimpo, lets post more songs with cool bits like

Paris - The Days of Old


sampled from

The Blackbyrds


:yesnod: two very different songs.


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Nimpo]
    #18801338 - 09/04/13 10:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Nimpo said:
no one has ever used a sample thats been 20% or more of someone elses song because then it wouldnt be a sample




Okay then, no more dancing around.  You make the rules, Nimpo.  You have to give us the exact percentage of a song that an artist may use for their song before they have to pay.  What is that number. 

















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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18801343 - 09/04/13 10:14 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

let me guess Nimpo.

0%

right?
:lol:


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18801356 - 09/04/13 10:16 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Entirely: an entire song, or section of a song.

Definition: a piece of composition recognized wholly as another song, entirely.




So you say "section of a song" and then you go back to "entirely" again.  Which is it?  And what is the definition of "section".  Answer as if you're defending yourself in a court of law when someone sues you for taking a "section" of their intellectual property and then selling it. 
















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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18801393 - 09/04/13 10:26 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
let me guess Nimpo.

0%

right?
:lol:




I hope he does say 0%.  Then I'll take his entire (theoretical) song, release it in full under my name and make a million.  Okay, I personally couldn't do that, but you get the point. 

















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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18801403 - 09/04/13 10:29 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

it has to be to be recognized as a whole section of a song. it can't made any clearly without appealing to your foolishness, flat out.

YOU THINK, that as long as it's "recognized" period that it's something someone should sue someone over. you're fucked in the head.
Quote:

Learyfan said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
let me guess Nimpo.

0%

right?
:lol:




I hope he does say 0%.  Then I'll take his entire (theoretical) song, release it in full under my name and make a million.  Okay, I personally couldn't do that, but you get the point. 



















that's the dumbest thing, i think you've said yet.

all you care about is the gravy train, and still completely missing the point. you asked to make a distinction on how much is acceptable to use in a sample from a song, and how much is not acceptable, before being able to sue.

his answer, is probably like mine. 0%, as in NO AMOUNT should be un-acceptable, to make a suit about.

PS: oh and BTW, people would know that you stole it. so you wouldn't be making dick-all on your gravy train, dude. :lol:

Jim Morrison must have really been a tard if his argument was that "people really shouldn't sample our music, because i want people to only recognize it as the Doors."

:flowstone: yeah, the internet Jim; the internet saves you from your bleeding heart. no worries, everyone knows who you are, and what songs are yours. no need to pout or for heaven's sake, KILL YOURSELF, or anything? :loldongs:


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18801428 - 09/04/13 10:37 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
YOU THINK, that as long as it's "recognized" period that it's something someone should sue someone over. you're fucked in the head.
Quote:






No, not just me.  Whoever makes and enforces those laws think that also.  And they made it a (good) law.  Or did you think Jay Z paid The Doors out of the goodness of his heart? 






Quote:

akira_akuma said:
his answer, is probably like mine. 0%, as in NO AMOUNT should be un-acceptable, to make a suit about.




Okay, then as an artist, you're leaving yourself completely open.  Anyone can take 100% of your song and release it as theirs and it's legally a "sample".  Dude, you're only saying that because you're not in the position of the artist having his shit sold by someone else. 















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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18801439 - 09/04/13 10:40 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
Quote:

Nimpo said:
no one has ever used a sample thats been 20% or more of someone elses song because then it wouldnt be a sample




Okay then, no more dancing around.  You make the rules, Nimpo.  You have to give us the exact percentage of a song that an artist may use for their song before they have to pay.  What is that number. 




Anything beyond a SAMPLE needs to be paid for. Holy shit man, are we talking about rocket science here? How hard is this to grasp? Are you sure you know what a sample is?

Quote:

Learyfan said:
Anyone can take 100% of your song and release it as theirs and it's legally a "sample".




Guess you don't.


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18801441 - 09/04/13 10:41 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

he paid him out of the goodness of his art. he wanted a reparte with one of the Doors personally, so he could clear with him, so that he would be being professional.


Quote:

Anyone can take 100% of your song and release it as theirs and it's legally a "sample"




AND NO THEY COULDN'T. what you think some hacker is gonna come, steal my tracks and sell it make millions? i will... :lol: go on the internet, and verify that it's my music, if in this crazy dimension that ever happened, and people would know it was mine because i'd show them tracks and/or samples i made the songs with.

no one would be so brazen as to try and do what you're insisting people would do without your silly ass law. no one ever. :lol:

PS: again, whole song as a sample? THAT CAN'T HAPPEN. :lol: how many times must i say this?


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18801467 - 09/04/13 10:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

let me just give an example, guess i'm starting to have some fun with this... :lol:

one of these days when i get some time and some good audio software, i'm gonna isolate the bass melodies of every single Parliment track, and slice two notes from every single one at random, to what sounds preferential, and then string them all together backwards chronologically, just for a good measure...

:lol: totally legal to sell. i'll call it um... "Fuck The Music Industry and Has-Been's, In General"


:yesnod:


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18801483 - 09/04/13 10:56 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Nimpo said:
Anything beyond a SAMPLE needs to be paid for.




Yes, but in the legal world, you will need to define how long or of what percentage of a song is a "sample".  That's the crux of the whole argument. 






Quote:

akira_akuma said:
he paid him out of the goodness of his art. he wanted a reparte with one of the Doors personally, so he could clear with him, so that he would be being professional.




What?  Why am I arguing with you.  You don't even believe that Jay Z had to pay The Doors.  So you don't understand the issue.  Let me clue you in.  He could not legally put that song on his album without gaining permission from and giving money to, The Doors. 




Quote:

akira_akuma said:
i will... :lol: go on the internet, and verify that it's my music, if in this crazy dimension that ever happened, and people would know it was mine because i'd show them tracks and/or samples i made the songs with.




It doesn't matter how you made the song or if you made it.  I "sampled" 100% of the song and sold it and made a fortune before you could make everyone aware of it.  No one will buy it from you because it's seen as being my creation.  And you can't sue me because you made the law that said that any artist can sell any amount of another artists intellectual property and get away with it. 




Quote:

akira_akuma said:
no one would be so brazen as to try and do what you're insisting people would do without your silly ass law. no one ever. :lol:

PS: again, whole song as a sample? THAT CAN'T HAPPEN. :lol: how many times must i say this?




No one ever?  Have you seen the internet?  It's all about pushing the envelope as far as possible.  People are fucking crazy.  If people know they can use 100% of an existing song and make money, they're going to do it. 















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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18801502 - 09/04/13 11:00 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

LOL, wrong on all fronts. he didn't have to pay them shit, according to what's fair use, he's just being professional, and he doesn't want to tarnish his name.

i wish i could show you how much you could get away with under fair use laws, but i'd have to have sanctioned a license for an sound installation playing chopped up and re-arranged Doors music, for you to get the point. :lol: if that.


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18801514 - 09/04/13 11:04 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

double post, oops.


Edited by akira_akuma (09/04/13 11:10 PM)


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18801531 - 09/04/13 11:09 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

LOL, wrong on all fronts. he didn't have to pay them shit, according to what's fair use, he's just being professional, and he doesn't want to tarnish his name.

i wish i could show you how much you could get away with under fair use laws, but i'd have to have sanctioned a license for an sound installation playing chopped up and re-arranged Doors music, for you to get the point. :lol: if that.

Quote:

Yes, but in the legal world, you will need to define how long or of what percentage of a song is a "sample".  That's the crux of the whole argument. 




Sample: a isolated bit of music that gets used in a loop, sequence, or synthesizer. how long? any amount of length.

legal issues: determine whether the sample has the entire composition intact in the sample, or whether it is a piece of the composition, un-intact.

Quote:

It doesn't matter how you made the song or if you made it.  I "sampled" 100% of the song and sold it and made a fortune before you could make everyone aware of it.  No one will buy it from you because it's seen as being my creation.  And you can't sue me because you made the law that said that any artist can sell any amount of another artists intellectual property and get away with it. 




that's laughable too. so when i prove it's not yours, people are still gonna buy it? (no) but they'd be idiots, i don't want as my fanbase anyways.

you'd make the money, by being a fraud, and i wouldn't care but it would happen like that anyways. you steal my whole idea, and pass it off as your own? :lol: no where in the history of man, has that ever happened with music.

Quote:

Learyfan said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
no one would be so brazen as to try and do what you're insisting people would do without your silly ass law. no one ever. :lol:

PS: again, whole song as a sample? THAT CAN'T HAPPEN. :lol: how many times must i say this?




No one ever?  Have you seen the internet?  It's all about pushing the envelope as far as possible.  People are fucking crazy.  If people know they can use 100% of an existing song and make money, they're going to do it.




whoever did that would be putting a stake in any possible future career's heart, and also be ostracized. unless someone wanted to do this purely for the trolling; but in that case, whatever, let them go down for it. he won't be making money, period.

the fact that you think you can just do that make millions and never be exposed, is just silly, man.

you'd be exposed before you made anywhere close to that money, and you can guarantee, i'd be able to sue you then. :wink: legitimately.


Edited by akira_akuma (09/04/13 11:17 PM)


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan] * 1
    #18801549 - 09/04/13 11:16 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
Quote:

Nimpo said:
Anything beyond a SAMPLE needs to be paid for.




Yes, but in the legal world, you will need to define how long or of what percentage of a song is a "sample".  That's the crux of the whole argument. 






There is no length definition of a sample because its a SAMPLE. Anywhere from 1 frame to within 15 seconds, and can even be LONGER, via loopholes found in the system, such as changing it or manipulating it. A sample is a sample is a sample. A sample is not a segment.

You also cant take someone elses song and
Quote:

sell it and made a fortune before you could make everyone aware of it.  No one will buy it from you because it's seen as being my creation.  And you can't sue me because you made the law that said that any artist can sell any amount of another artists intellectual property and get away with it. 




because that person sent a copyright of their song to the copyright offices PRIOR to release, like any musician does, and guess what comes back on his copyright form? A stamped date. Thats all he needs to take you to court and prove he was the original creator, ram your ass for the "fortune" you made, plus royalties (because if you take my music Ill make sure my defense team finds every way to fuck you), and then all is good with the world because I have my song, my money, and most likely your house.

You honestly need to meet with an entertainment lawyer as suggested earlier so you can sit down and ask him all these questions and get all your answers because you think this is a white or black issue but the hard truth is that the grey area is infinitely larger than both white and black.

And you still havent showed us a song sampling another song for over 20% of its entirety.

Quote:

Have you seen the internet?



I have, and I havent found a single case of what you are claiming is possible, be it a whole song used as a sample, or someone ripping off a song from a musician and claiming it to be their own (and getting away with it).

Id ask you try again, but we are all going in circles here and I have work early morning. If you respond, Ill address it tomorrow.


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Nimpo]
    #18801558 - 09/04/13 11:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

he thinks he can just hax0r his way into stealing songs from people. :lol:

[/endthread]?

- stealing a whole work of art or a whole song is stealing

- sampling a piece of a song, is just like using a common series of notes, only a digitally done version of this concept.

- sampling is like using Monet impressionism, in a Van Gogh. it's simply an influence or inquiry determined by the artists use of the brush. it's recognized as Monet, but it's Van Gogh because it's Van Gogh, even if it's got a bit of Monet.

- sampling is not illegal, nor should any use of any isolated piece of music; and this needs to change.


Edited by akira_akuma (09/04/13 11:49 PM)


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18802232 - 09/05/13 06:21 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I should have known you guys didn't have the slightest grasp of the issue when you claimed that Jay Z was not legally forced to get permission and pay The Doors to use that sample and that he got permission "out of the kindness of his heart".  :lol: 

Look up Rick James vs. MC Hammer ("Super Freak"/ "U Can't Touch This") and Queen/David Bowie vs. Vanilla Ice ("Under Pressure"/ "Ice Ice Baby").  These two issues should be a good introduction to the issue for you.  Spoiler, Rick James, Queen and David Bowie only had three or four seconds of their music sampled and got filthy rich when they sued. 

Anyone else out there want to claim that Jay Z wasn't legally forced to pay The Doors/Electra Records? 
















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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18802245 - 09/05/13 06:28 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

If you're making money off of it, but people nowaday's are armchair lawyers and think if something is copyrighted it can only be distributed through transactions...:foreheadslap:


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18802267 - 09/05/13 06:38 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
I should have known you guys didn't have the slightest grasp of the issue when you claimed that Jay Z was not legally forced to get permission and pay The Doors to use that sample and that he got permission "out of the kindness of his heart".  :lol: 

Look up Rick James vs. MC Hammer ("Super Freak"/ "U Can't Touch This") and Queen/David Bowie vs. Vanilla Ice ("Under Pressure"/ "Ice Ice Baby").  These two issues should be a good introduction to the issue for you.  Spoiler, Rick James, Queen and David Bowie only had three or four seconds of their music sampled and got filthy rich when they sued. 

Anyone else out there want to claim that Jay Z wasn't legally forced to pay The Doors/Electra Records? 

















:blah: you missed the point that sensible people don't care. those fuckers were greedy. oh and PS: the days of greedy monopolized musicians, has fallen out of style. outside the mainstream pop shit most people have come to despise, that is.

most people don't care if a mere four seconds of a song was used, as long as they are credited. fuck paying a stupid cocksucker for 4 seconds, and fuck the big wigs for letting them.

morons. money makes morons, i swear. it's not that i hate money... i mean, but just look at these results. everyone with the love of money has fucked up something good and free in this world, in some way or another.

pigs. scum. scumfucks.


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18802269 - 09/05/13 06:41 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

So you admit you're wrong and that Jay Z was legally forced to get permission from and pay money to The Doors. 















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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Learyfan]
    #18802272 - 09/05/13 06:44 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
So you admit you're wrong and that Jay Z was legally forced to get permission from and pay money to The Doors. 








i wasn't wrong about anything. it's a non-issue. what did you expect everyone to come in here to state how right you are? it's a fact, he probably had to pay him legally, because the Doors are old sons of bitches. they have no tact, nor any idea what music represents anymore. they are washed up fucking losers; which is why it's safe to say, they'd sue. that's irrelevant, however. to the bigger issue. that old washed up fucks can sue because yes, they have the ability. should they? no. no because...

Jay-Z really make that beat unrecognizable as anything amount of the melody or beat form the Doors, so you're whole wanna-be legal battle can go fuck itself straight up.

plus, anyone who thinks they can own music, seriously die.
just go die make the world a better place.

oh and PS: he wasn't forced, he was coerced. :stfu:


Edited by akira_akuma (09/05/13 06:49 AM)


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18803223 - 09/05/13 12:43 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Way to say it Akira.

Saying you can own music is about as stupid as the companies that think they can own genes and genetic material.


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: elax420]
    #18803285 - 09/05/13 01:01 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Can an artist own a painting?


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: twighead]
    #18803331 - 09/05/13 01:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Akira, leading the shroomerites out of the dark:rolleyes:


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: twighead]
    #18803547 - 09/05/13 02:26 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

twighead said:
Can an artist own a painting?




This is all my opinion and where you start getting into the murkier legalese,

but they can own the painted they created. Its image and what happens with it after its sold is free game.

for instance if i wanted to make a copy of this


everyone is going to know that is a picasso so he gets his fame either way but if i had the ability i should be able to paint it myself and hang it :shrug:


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: elax420]
    #18804168 - 09/05/13 05:02 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

The world's most important 6 second drum loop.

It's an 18 minute video. You're all unemployed stoners. Even you can do it.

The tl;dr is that a segment of sound has been affecting you via media/gov't/advertizing/etc if you were born after 1969.

You probably heard it a few times today listening to the radio or a TV was on in the background.

No conspiracy theory (here, anyway) some people go nuts about this about the beat doing something to the brain.

I think you both should watch it and re-evaluate where you stand. I think you'll see each others' opinions.


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Adden]
    #18804172 - 09/05/13 05:03 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

2:42 explains fucking sampling too you morons (no offense I love you both)

edit -

[The Amen Break] gained fame from the 1980s onwards when four bars (6 seconds) sampled from the drum-solo (or imitations thereof) became very widely used as sampled drum loops in breakbeat, hip hop, breakbeat hardcore, hardcore techno and breakcore, jungle and drum and bass (including oldschool jungle and ragga jungle), and digital hardcore music.[1] The Amen Break was used extensively in early hiphop and sample-based music, and became the basis for drum-and-bass and jungle music—"a six-second clip that spawned several entire subcultures." It is arguably the most sampled drum beat of all time and unarguably one of the most sampled loops in contemporary electronic music.[2]

Neither the performer, drummer G.C. Coleman or the copyright owner Richard L. Spencer have ever received any royalties or clearance fees for the use of the sample, nor has either sought royalties.[3] Spencer considers musical works based on the sample "plagiarism".[4]


They'd be so fucking rich. Filthy, drooling rich if this drum break was copyrighted. I'm not kidding when I say the average person must hear it at least once a day if around electronics/advertising.


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Adden]
    #18804190 - 09/05/13 05:06 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Dystopia said:
The world's most important 6 second drum loop.

It's an 18 minute video. You're all unemployed stoners. Even you can do it.

The tl;dr is that a segment of sound has been affecting you via media/gov't/advertizing/etc if you were born after 1969.

You probably heard it a few times today listening to the radio or a TV was on in the background.

No conspiracy theory (here, anyway) some people go nuts about this about the beat doing something to the brain.

I think you both should watch it and re-evaluate where you stand. I think you'll see each others' opinions.





Wait what is the most important 6 second drum beat? Cant be 5-1

you piqued my inner :meffz: :paranoid:


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Adden]
    #18804348 - 09/05/13 05:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I've heard things pretty fucking similar to the amen before the "amen" existed - its a pretty damn easy/natural beat to come up with.


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: twighead]
    #18804372 - 09/05/13 05:55 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

which is why if they had copyrighted it, he'd be another greedy fucking loser, who's trying to control natural rhythms anyone would come up with.

it's like if some Japanese guy took a Taiko drumming song, and just said, "i copyrighted it, it's mine and no one can play this song we've played for centuries at religious ceremonies, anymore, without paying me large sums of money."

said person is an example of a sour, fucking loser piece of shit, who wants control of a series of notes. only retards want this.


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18804380 - 09/05/13 05:58 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

which is why if they guy had copyrighted it, he'd a fucking loser.


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Konyap]
    #18804383 - 09/05/13 05:59 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

that guy - he'd be a fucking loser

not so clever.


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18804419 - 09/05/13 06:12 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Fucking I'm actually in a battle about this right now

Basically if someone has a creative commons on it, you can use it where ever

but now watch this

If you go on youtube, download/"stream" a video to watch, you can share it with anyone in your household, because it's personal use.

Now what if someone copied someone else's work, but only used part of it?

Then it's a copyright issue that is a civil law broken, not a federal one. So the person who owns that work has to sue the person who copied for it to be brought to court.

So what they are trying to do with SOPA is make it illegal to stream to other peoples copyrighted work.

But like I said before, if I share someone's copyrighted work that they copied from someone else, am I sharing copyrighted work?


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Konyap]
    #18806281 - 09/06/13 05:53 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I think people should be more concerned with outsourcing US goods and services to other countries, paying cheapshit labor and big companies like Apple avoiding millions upon heaping millions dodging taxes.


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Adden]
    #18806311 - 09/06/13 06:18 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)



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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: CidneyIndole]
    #18806323 - 09/06/13 06:26 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

CidneyIndole said:
Okay, on the one hand... to a certain degree hip hop, or at least some hip hop, could be seen as "fighting against the system."


On the other hand, Jay Z, specifically, and his brand of hip hop IS the fucking system.



You guys have to realize when Jay Z wrote that letter he was fighting the system. Blueprint was one of his first albums. Reasonable doubt was his first..this was before the multi-millions, sports teams, an even Beyonce I believe. Young black kids from the ghettos making millions off middle class American teenagers...that's not fighting the system, that's changing the rules


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Magicman69]
    #18806399 - 09/06/13 07:12 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

that song is not sampled, its a peice of Five to One that's been looped.  Sampling is when you take a portion of someone else's song and add it to your already original content.  Jay z did not do that, he just flat out used the song, he did not use any of his own music, besides his nursery rhymes, if we can call those music.  It's not sampled, it's been legally appropriated through coersion. 

I thought that's what the thread was about?


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Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Adden]
    #18806433 - 09/06/13 07:41 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Dystopia said:
I think people should be more concerned with outsourcing US goods and services to other countries, paying cheapshit labor and big companies like Apple avoiding millions upon heaping millions dodging taxes.




You can't sound like a white knight if you're preaching people should be fucking themselves in the ass.


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Re: How Jay Z tricked John Densmore into allowing him to use 'Five To One' [Re: Konyap]
    #18807453 - 09/06/13 01:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

This is what I'm dealing with right now. People are so fucking stupid using yahoo answers for advice:lol:

Quote:

That's licensed software you armchair lawyer. What is going on?

A Mod/Admin replied on
Ripping audio off of YouTube videos is illegal as you do not have the legal rights to copy it to your PC.

You said on
9/6/2013 3:17:09 PM
RealPlayer is LICENSED SOFTWARE
It only lets you rip audio from video's uploaded under CREATIVE COMMONS.
How do you think sound cloud, band camp work? Do you people really think it's illegal to download something with out paying someone? That makes you corporate fascist..




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