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Yukon Cornelius
Bumble Wrangler


Registered: 09/01/13
Posts: 1,348
Loc: Peppermint Mines
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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: liquidlounge] 2
#18785887 - 09/01/13 03:54 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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First time post, felt compelled after years of lurking the forum to comment on this.
The op seems to not understand something very fundamental about humor. I'll use an example from a context that has nothing to do with ego, self delusion, or lack of compassion for the plight of an "organism".
A man is huddled around a fire in the jungle alone, feels fearful and anxious when he hears a rustling in the bushes. Under the current circumstance he expects a large predator to be lurking just beyond his sight, but when the source of the noise reveals itself its a harmless squirrel. Man laughs...
Its when a presumed context that creates an expectation is drastically different in its conclusion than what assumed prior to it happening. Set up, and punchline in an evolutionary nutshell.
Of course many forms of humor rely on a much more complex structure(stream of consciousness, word play etc.) but the generalization of it relying solely on idiotic behavior and enjoyment at the expense of others is a logical fallacy.
I'm not trying to assume anything here about the op, just presenting what argument he has against humor and a blatant flaw in its conclusion based on what evidence he has posed.
-------------------- "I didn't know chicken's wore suspenders" - Towelie
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GoldenEye
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Registered: 05/24/13
Posts: 4,340
Loc: Amsterdam
Last seen: 7 months, 13 days
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Quote:
Yukon Cornelius said: First time post, felt compelled after years of lurking the forum to comment on this.
The op seems to not understand something very fundamental about humor. I'll use an example from a context that has nothing to do with ego, self delusion, or lack of compassion for the plight of an "organism".
A man is huddled around a fire in the jungle alone, feels fearful and anxious when he hears a rustling in the bushes. Under the current circumstance he expects a large predator to be lurking just beyond his sight, but when the source of the noise reveals itself its a harmless squirrel. Man laughs...
Its when a presumed context that creates an expectation is drastically different in its conclusion than what assumed prior to it happening. Set up, and punchline in an evolutionary nutshell.
Of course many forms of humor rely on a much more complex structure(stream of consciousness, word play etc.) but the generalization of it relying solely on idiotic behavior and enjoyment at the expense of others is a logical fallacy.
I'm not trying to assume anything here about the op, just presenting what argument he has against humor and a blatant flaw in its conclusion based on what evidence he has posed.
This is another great example of harmless laughter. But is there humor involved? I think the example is just as irrelevant as my previous laughter meditation example turned out to be. I think OP's definition of 'humor' is pretty narrow and quite close to 'jokes'.
In that sense, the squirrel would have to take offense at the laughter for OP's theory to hold. If the squirrel was human he might have taken offense for being underestimated. Or he would simply join in the laughter because he managed to scare the shit out of the jungle man, even though he is utterly harmless!
It all depends on your own attitude I think.
If you make jokes, you should be able to take the joke being on you as well.
Maybe it is also an ethical discussion.
It matters whether OP believes in virtue ethics or normative ethics.
If OP holds normative ethical values he might not joke about others because he doesn't like to be joked about, hence the thought that all humor is destructive.
If OP holds virtue ethical values he might joke a lot about others, causing as much laughter as he can in as big a group of people as he can. The benefits of the caused laughter outweigh the caused destruction to the one who the joke is on. In a virtue ethical respect, humor would be constructive.
I've said everything I have to say in this thread now. Shit, I'm probably even taking this thread to seriously and should have just joked about it
Edited by GoldenEye (09/02/13 02:29 AM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: GoldenEye]
#18788109 - 09/02/13 02:46 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I've liked all your posts so far. Welcome to the fun house. 
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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A man is huddled around a fire in the jungle alone, feels fearful and anxious when he hears a rustling in the bushes. Under the current circumstance he expects a large predator to be lurking just beyond his sight, but when the source of the noise reveals itself its a harmless squirrel. Man laughs...
Obviously this man will laugh at another man experiencing similar. "Thank fuck I was not the one that made a fool of myself this time!"
Also, ego is boosted through something that is less than himself.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: liquidlounge] 2
#18788818 - 09/02/13 09:22 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
liquidlounge said: A man is huddled around a fire in the jungle alone, feels fearful and anxious when he hears a rustling in the bushes. Under the current circumstance he expects a large predator to be lurking just beyond his sight, but when the source of the noise reveals itself its a harmless squirrel. Man laughs...
Obviously this man will laugh at another man experiencing similar. "Thank fuck I was not the one that made a fool of myself this time!"
Also, ego is boosted through something that is less than himself.
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omegafaust
mycofarmer



Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 1,227
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: Repertoire89] 2
#18789041 - 09/02/13 10:28 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yout argument is falling apart liquid lounge. i have seen so many validations that humor is creative rather than destructive.
we can all see your idealogy and logic. however your perspective seems to be different than the masses.
as such i suggest you declare a much more valid point or agree to the fact that humor is not nearly as destructive as you say.
i laugh at a kitten when it lets out a tiny mew. not because i am making fun of said kitten, or because I find that kittens existence less valuable or meaningful than my own. I life because a wave of emotions that correspond to happy memories has flooded my brain.
The basis for your argument is flawed and unspecific.
-------------------- The Universe has an interesting sense of irony, in that you are the universe experiencing itself. All you are is a thought.
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: omegafaust]
#18789281 - 09/02/13 11:24 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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i laugh at a kitten when it lets out a tiny mew. not because i am making fun of said kitten, or because I find that kittens existence less valuable or meaningful than my own. I life because a wave of emotions that correspond to happy memories has flooded my brain.
So you laugh that the kitten is alive and is thus sharing your pain. Well, that it's there to comfort your misery. What are these memories of?
I have never laughed out of sheer happiness, maybe it's just me.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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omegafaust
mycofarmer



Registered: 05/29/12
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Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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No thought of misery is involved. i am happy the kitten is alive and that i am also alive to witness and experience tue glory that is life.
get over your negativity man.
-------------------- The Universe has an interesting sense of irony, in that you are the universe experiencing itself. All you are is a thought.
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: omegafaust]
#18789938 - 09/02/13 01:27 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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No thought of misery is involved. i am happy the kitten is alive and that i am also alive to witness and experience tue glory that is life.
You don't know whether the kitten is enjoying existence - baseless and very egoistical laughing in other words.
get over your negativity man.
Suspiciousness. Not sure I'll ever get over it, at least not in these circumstances, it's been inside me since day one.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
Edited by liquidlounge (09/02/13 01:29 PM)
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GoldenEye
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Registered: 05/24/13
Posts: 4,340
Loc: Amsterdam
Last seen: 7 months, 13 days
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I'm steering away from humor and jokes again. I'm once again steering towards laughter because that tends to be the main result of humor and jokes:
Did you ever contemplate on the differences/equalities of laughter and crying?
It's quite interesting how similar they are...
They are both defense mechanisms and ways to relief anxiety/fear.
In babies it is sometimes rather impossible to tell if you're dealing with laughter or crying. They use exactly the same muscles producing the same expression. Just the tears and the sounds may be different.
Just a thought I'd wanted to plant in your head. Not really jumping to any conclusions from it.
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omegafaust
mycofarmer



Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 1,227
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: GoldenEye]
#18790745 - 09/02/13 04:40 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think your statement is misguided. the ideas of humour you put forth are a direct result of something some of us have experienced a loss of. our egos. these perceptions we apply or assume effect our behaviors. to say the ego is destructive can be argued, but something that is merely a byproduct which isn't always negative in aspect is destructive because.of our objectivity to it is pushing it.
-------------------- The Universe has an interesting sense of irony, in that you are the universe experiencing itself. All you are is a thought.
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,252
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Quote:
liquidlounge said: Ultimately, it's all about laughing at organisms.
Finding confidence in imbecile. Glorification of idiotic.
I suppose laughing with the genius is sane but even then, you're laughing at other organisms as subjective metric. Unless you take everything with you into eden.
I don't think it's so much idiocy but rather futility. Everybody is spending most of their energy to avoid dying, and yet it's a given. The idiot is an obtuse and obvious form of futility but I find everyone funny in their own way. I'm not sure futility is the very best way to generalize humor because I can think of other types of humor, but I do agree that all humor is destructive if it's good.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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jvm
I knew the pieces fit!



Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 2,031
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: Icelander]
#18799868 - 09/04/13 04:06 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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laughter expels accumulated energy from excited stimulation. There are some things that are useful to overanalyze and laughter certainly isn't one of them.
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
liquidlounge said: Ultimately, it's all about laughing at organisms.
Finding confidence in imbecile. Glorification of idiotic.
I suppose laughing with the genius is sane but even then, you're laughing at other organisms as subjective metric. Unless you take everything with you into eden.
 
exactly
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NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
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Re: "Humour is destructive!"? [Re: jvm]
#18799987 - 09/04/13 04:40 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Interesting thread, but I can't help but feel the OP is trolling.
OP, I must ask: how do you define humor? Seems to me that different people find different things to be funny. You talk about how you don't find things funny when you analyze them. I, on the other hand, frequently find things funnier when they're over-rationalized, or when normally over-complicated matters are stated with concise simplicity (as in the writings of Kurt Vonnegut, or Haruki Murakami). Humor is an irrational business but not a necessarily destructive one; clearly we're not an entirely rational species and laughter is a *usually* harmless outlet for some of our stranger compulsions.
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