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kronosofvegas
Stranger
Registered: 08/01/13
Posts: 22
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
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Creating a new strain
#18788454 - 09/02/13 06:24 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I heard roger rabbit created a strain(pe6 or something) how is this done?
i'd love to try crossing a few good strains that i have
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Ratatoskr
Squirrel


Registered: 07/12/13
Posts: 230
Loc: Roots of Yggdrasill
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Rattle snake venom?
-------------------- All is one, one is all, everything is.
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kronosofvegas
Stranger
Registered: 08/01/13
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Re: Creating a new strain [Re: Ratatoskr]
#18789503 - 09/02/13 12:19 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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is there really nothing except that??? that's what i read, but is there some type of acid that would work aswell - there must be.
I have no idea where to get rattlesnake venom except from finding a snake.
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omegafaust
mycofarmer



Registered: 05/29/12
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You two are confusing strain and species.
-------------------- The Universe has an interesting sense of irony, in that you are the universe experiencing itself. All you are is a thought.
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kronosofvegas
Stranger
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Re: Creating a new strain [Re: omegafaust]
#18792994 - 09/03/13 02:24 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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no i believe we're right crossing species would be p.cubensis vs p.cyanescens
I want to x the certain strain of a species(or maybe it's called sub species in mycology)
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Pestile

Registered: 05/02/13
Posts: 875
Loc: Northern Europe
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: A few PE 6 prints were stuffed into an envelope and donated along with a bunch of others to mycotopia when I was still active over there. It was one of the contests or something, I don't remember. I had no idea those prints were in the bunch. I must have gotten distracted and grabbed a big pile without going through them or something. The first I knew was someone posting a PEG grow. He thought the 6 was a G, and asked what strain PEG was.
A single sector fruiting isolate of PE, and another of TEX were placed on a petri dish with rattlesnake venom added to the agar. The snake venom helped the two dikaryotic strains share genetic information to form a third sector, which was which was labeled PE6. Other Isolates of the PE were labeled PE 1-7, and apparently, some of the 6, which was the cross, were in the same batch of prints. The idea was to get a good spore producing PE, but I never had time to stabilize the strain due to accidentally releasing it early. That's why sometimes they look like texans and sometimes very much like PE. RR
Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
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Is the rattle snake venom a joke?
It's a well-established procedure for hybridization in mycology. Google it. RR
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7614007#7614007
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   The Corbett Report Open Source Intelligence News
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omegafaust
mycofarmer



Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 1,227
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Re: Creating a new strain [Re: Pestile]
#18793808 - 09/03/13 10:37 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yes I believe you are, strains are of the same species, erego to cross them you only need isolates from each and they will grow together. the tricky part is isolating the traits you want.
rr was using rattlesnake venom to cross a cube and a cyan. he has even stated combining myclium on agar will result in a 1 in 4 chance of crossing strains.
The rattlesnake venom is used specifically to deteriorate the cell walls allowing a "fusion" of mycelium.
this is completely unnecessary for crossing strains.
-------------------- The Universe has an interesting sense of irony, in that you are the universe experiencing itself. All you are is a thought.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
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Re: Creating a new strain [Re: omegafaust]
#18794368 - 09/03/13 01:32 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
omegafaust said: rr was using rattlesnake venom to cross a cube and a cyan. he has even stated combining myclium on agar will result in a 1 in 4 chance of crossing strains.
I doubt that was successful, he probably ended up with pissed off cubes or Panaeolus. As far as I know the resulting culture was never checked microscopically or sequenced.
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Pestile

Registered: 05/02/13
Posts: 875
Loc: Northern Europe
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:
omegafaust said: rr was using rattlesnake venom to cross a cube and a cyan. he has even stated combining myclium on agar will result in a 1 in 4 chance of crossing strains.
I doubt that was successful, he probably ended up with pissed off cubes or Panaeolus. As far as I know the resulting culture was never checked microscopically or sequenced.
cyan doesn't necessarily have to be Panaeolus. Just sayin...
--------------------
   The Corbett Report Open Source Intelligence News
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omegafaust
mycofarmer



Registered: 05/29/12
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Re: Creating a new strain [Re: Pestile]
#18794523 - 09/03/13 02:06 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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The fact is that's what he was using it gor. cross species.
alan. is rattlesnake venom necessary to cross two cubes strains?
-------------------- The Universe has an interesting sense of irony, in that you are the universe experiencing itself. All you are is a thought.
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MonkeyJesusFresco
am i suspended in agar?



Registered: 10/09/12
Posts: 3,306
Loc: South East USA
Last seen: 4 days, 9 hours
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Re: Creating a new strain [Re: omegafaust]
#18795085 - 09/03/13 04:15 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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hey!
I was under the impression you had to get one spore from both strains to germinate individually, combine them, and if by some miracle they were sexually compatable they then make the sweet love and you've got yourself a dikaryotic cross between the two strains, and if that cross fruited and sporulated, at that point you would be able to multi-spore fruit and then begin your multi generational selective breeding program, or MGSBP for short (cause, why not right?)
-------------------- LAGM v 2.024 - endo cabendo
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omegafaust
mycofarmer



Registered: 05/29/12
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Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Exactly ^
-------------------- The Universe has an interesting sense of irony, in that you are the universe experiencing itself. All you are is a thought.
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inski
Cortinariologist



Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 5,752
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Quote:
omegafaust said: The fact is that's what he was using it gor. cross species.
alan. is rattlesnake venom necessary to cross two cubes strains?
No, in Roger's case the venom was only used in an attempt to cross two species belonging to different genera, an intergeneric hybrid, I agree with alan and don't believe the cross was successful.
I believe it is possible to cross two species belonging to the same genus if they are very closely related without using venom.
Crossing distinct strains of the same species can result in some interesting new varieties which can be considered hybrids, venom is not necessary..
There is two ways of making these types of crosses, the easiest is by placing two or more distinct strains of dikaryotic mycelium on an agar filled petri dish, as the strains grow together anastomosis may or may not occur, if it does a new "hybrid" is created, it must be tested for fruiting capabilities. The other method is to isolate single spore germinations usually by diluting a spore solution making it easier to isolate monokaryotic cultures, to check if you have a monokaryon it is necessary to look at the mycelium under a microscope and be certain that there is no clamp connections, when you have monokaryotic cultures two must be grown together on agar, if they are compatible a dikaryotic culture will be formed and that culture can then be tested for fruiting capabilities.
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MonkeyJesusFresco said: hey!
I was under the impression you had to get one spore from both strains to germinate individually, combine them, and if by some miracle they were sexually compatable they then make the sweet love and you've got yourself a dikaryotic cross between the two strains, and if that cross fruited and sporulated, at that point you would be able to multi-spore fruit and then begin your multi generational selective breeding program, or MGSBP for short (cause, why not right?)
...So as explained above, it is possible to create hybrids of the same species using monokaryotic or dikaryotic mycelium.
I doubt very much that it would be possible to cross Psilocybe cubensis with P. cyanescens because they are not so closely related although using venom may make it possible! On the other hand, a great experiment would be to try hybridising P. weraroa with P. subaeruginosa and P. "subsecotioides"
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Nobitte
Student


Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 493
Loc: Biosphere
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: Creating a new strain [Re: inski]
#18797992 - 09/04/13 04:39 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
inski said: I doubt very much that it would be possible to cross Psilocybe cubensis with P. cyanescens because they are not so closely related although using venom may make it possible! On the other hand, a great experiment would be to try hybridising P. weraroa with P. subaeruginosa and P. "subsecotioides"
Agree!
Have any studies been done to date that you're aware of, amateur or otherwise?
-------------------- First we must learn... Then... WE CAN TEACH
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omegafaust
mycofarmer



Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 1,227
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Re: Creating a new strain [Re: Nobitte]
#18798572 - 09/04/13 10:02 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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So, op you don't need venom. :p. you should make it into a journal if you attempt it
-------------------- The Universe has an interesting sense of irony, in that you are the universe experiencing itself. All you are is a thought.
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inski
Cortinariologist



Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 5,752
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Re: Creating a new strain [Re: Nobitte]
#18799036 - 09/04/13 12:30 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nobitte said:
Quote:
inski said: I doubt very much that it would be possible to cross Psilocybe cubensis with P. cyanescens because they are not so closely related although using venom may make it possible! On the other hand, a great experiment would be to try hybridising P. weraroa with P. subaeruginosa and P. "subsecotioides"
Agree!
Have any studies been done to date that you're aware of, amateur or otherwise?
I should have made it clearer that I was referring to Psilocybe cyanescens in my above statement.
Yes, many mating compatibility studies have been done, those experiments were routinely done to check if two separate collections were of the same taxon, now DNA sequencing is the preferred and more accurate (in some cases) method, all methods of observation are useful tools for taxonomy, macroscopic, microscopic, mating compatibility testing and DNA sequencing, all should be used in conjunction in order to gain a better understanding of the organisms studied.
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Nobitte
Student


Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 493
Loc: Biosphere
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: Creating a new strain [Re: inski]
#18799735 - 09/04/13 03:30 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Sorry, i was similarly unclear there, i was just expressing excitement at the idea of studying the three Australasian saprotrophs you mentioned. I figured the hybridization of two disparate species(like cyanescens and cubensis) would be an unlikely prospect.
-------------------- First we must learn... Then... WE CAN TEACH
Edited by Nobitte (09/04/13 03:35 PM)
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kronosofvegas
Stranger
Registered: 08/01/13
Posts: 22
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
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Re: Creating a new strain [Re: Nobitte]
#18800292 - 09/04/13 05:51 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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yeah i only want to cross strains(only cubes at this point)(not species) like PES Hawaiian, PE, Creepers, not species
so from what i've read i would need the venom to break down the genes so they can hybridize.
but does anyone know of anything else that would work any kind of acid?
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MonkeyJesusFresco
am i suspended in agar?



Registered: 10/09/12
Posts: 3,306
Loc: South East USA
Last seen: 4 days, 9 hours
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no, typically, you won't need the venom for strains of the same species
edit:
if you're trying to cross cubensis, just culture two strains on two separate petris, isolate single sectors of each, put 'em both on a new petri, and where those two come together and sector off, ta-da! cross?
edit edit:
good luck on getting your hands on rattlesnake venom!
for more info on that use the search function for "Venom" and Posted By "RogerRabbit"
-------------------- LAGM v 2.024 - endo cabendo
Edited by MonkeyJesusFresco (09/06/13 01:58 AM)
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
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The venom is just one tool available, and was used for crossing two isolated single sector fruiting strains of cubensis.
Any two compatible spores will form a strain. A strain is not the name someone wrote on a print, so taking a spore from two different prints and creating a strain from them is not a cross. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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