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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
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Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: Icelander]
#18807733 - 09/06/13 02:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: OCD religious zelots and Fivepointer
Any resemblance my be incidental.
I wouldn't know, he's on my ignore list. I'm trying to avoid getting banned again, and some people get me going.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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teknix
𓂀⟁𓅢𓍝𓅃𓊰𓉡 𓁼𓆗⨻



Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:
Icelander said: OCD religious zelots and Fivepointer
Any resemblance my be incidental.
I wouldn't know, he's on my ignore list. I'm trying to avoid getting banned again, and some people get me going. 

It could be a good thing pointing towards our personal weaknesses.
Sarcasm doesn't transfer well over the net, I should probably avoid using it or identify it better.
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teknix
𓂀⟁𓅢𓍝𓅃𓊰𓉡 𓁼𓆗⨻



Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
#18808646 - 09/06/13 06:24 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said: Your theory was logical, but Christians declare by default that they believe Jesus is the son of God which represents a fundamental principle of the belief.
Any alternative belief would surely negate a person being Christian?
Think about the holy trinity; the father, the son, the holy spirit.
Quote:
The doctrine of the Trinity defines God as three divine persons or hypostases:[1] the Father, the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit; "one God in three persons". The three persons are distinct, yet are one "substance, essence or nature".[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity
No, it wasn't a logical argument, it IS a logical argument.
Check your understanding, or correct mine.
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Almond Flour
...get off my lawn!



Registered: 12/26/08
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: teknix]
#18808660 - 09/06/13 06:26 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
teknix said: Hypothetically, if Satan is the master of deception and his goal is to get your soul, then what better way to re-route souls from God than to pretend to be his son and convince everyone to worship him instead of God?
Isn't the first commandment that "Thou shalt not have any other god before me." ?
Then comes along Jesus, who is put before god to pray too and send your soul too, on behalf of God . . .
Seems like the Christians could have been duped by Satan.
Just look at all the death and attrocities caused by their beliefs throughout the ages, and all the souls that have been re-routed from God to Jesus.
Seems like it could have been the ultimate deception.
What do you think.
(Hypothetically of course)
Seems like someone who is hell bent on trying to convince himself Christianity is false when hes a scared little boy 
Dont give me that death toll crap Christianity has on its head. Every civilization on EARTH has done some downright twisted and sick stuff. Its not a book on morals people. Its "The Bible" and the sooner you realize this the sooner you can stop obsessing in your heads over and over trying to trick yourself into a lie.
-------------------- Hippies and Liberals love Pope Francis, so why dont I quote him for you guys. "There is NO SALVATION outside the Catholic Church"
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teknix
𓂀⟁𓅢𓍝𓅃𓊰𓉡 𓁼𓆗⨻



Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: Almond Flour]
#18808668 - 09/06/13 06:28 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Rofl, funny man.
I don't deny god, I deny Christianity as literal and that Jesus was god.
(P.S. your mannerisms and way of communicating do little to aid your argument.)

Jesus was one of the lesser prophets or enlightened beings this planet have encountered and documented, and he is only lesser because the Christian made him lesser imo.
Your idea of Jesus and/or the Christian idea of Jesus is Satanic or of Satan (if there is such a being, I mean it metaphorically) and very cultish because it condones division and an us verse them mentality. imo.
I don't think that the love he was preaching was intended at all to be of the biased and clinging sort that many people practice. (Such as marriage seems to condone, in the name of god, but definitely not my god, more like Satan)
Edited by teknix (09/06/13 06:45 PM)
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Hierophant
Ritualistic Mystic

Registered: 03/28/13
Posts: 942
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: teknix]
#18808894 - 09/06/13 07:14 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeshua (Jesus) was and is misunderstood by the majority of people. His teachings and the signifigence of his life and message have been completely distorted by the church, if you want to look for Satan in Christianity look no further than the religious institution itself not at the man it was based on some 300 years after his supposed life. Yeshua never claimed to be God, he identified completely with his inherent divinity and attempted to teach others how to connect with their own divinity.
And speaking of the Gnostic gospels, read the Gospel of Toma (Thomas).
Yeshua said, If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will be your salvation. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you
Also from the gospel:
Yeshua asks his disciples, Make a comparison of me and tell me who I am like.
Shimon Kefa said to him, You are like a righteous angel.
Matai said to him, You are like a wise man of understanding.
Toma said to him, Rabbi, my mouth is unable to say who you are like.
Yeshua said, I am not your Rabbi. Because you are drunk, you are intoxicated from the bubbling spring I have tended.
And he took him and withdrew, and spoke three sayings to him.
When Toma came back to his companions, they asked him, What did Yeshua say to you?
Toma said, If I tell you one of the sayings he spoke to me, you will pick up rocks and stone me and fire will come out of the rocks and consume you.
-------------------- There is a golden book kept in my heart and guarded by my soul, written in Divine Light and bound with the veins of the Earth.
Edited by Hierophant (09/06/13 07:16 PM)
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teknix
𓂀⟁𓅢𓍝𓅃𓊰𓉡 𓁼𓆗⨻



Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: Hierophant]
#18808930 - 09/06/13 07:23 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't think the man himself was Satan, he was made into Satan by the Church (imo).
He could have been Satan if there is such a being, according to the bible.
IE; if I consider the bible literal, then I consider Jesus as Satan.
Taking souls from god by giving a lot of truth in exchange for one lie, and that one lie get's your soul. That is Because it is defying the very first commandment given by GOD.
Edited by teknix (09/06/13 07:29 PM)
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Hierophant
Ritualistic Mystic

Registered: 03/28/13
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: teknix]
#18808947 - 09/06/13 07:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I see what you're saying... He's been converted into an idol which, at least from Jewish perspective (and Yeshua was a Jew) is blasphemy.
-------------------- There is a golden book kept in my heart and guarded by my soul, written in Divine Light and bound with the veins of the Earth.
Edited by Hierophant (09/06/13 07:28 PM)
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teknix
𓂀⟁𓅢𓍝𓅃𓊰𓉡 𓁼𓆗⨻



Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: Hierophant]
#18808973 - 09/06/13 07:32 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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True, think about the best ways to deceive or social engineer people, you give them a bunch of truth mixed with one lie, and they just might believe that lie, especially if it can't be disproven by them and the rest (truth) can be affirmed and appeals to the emotions...
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Hierophant
Ritualistic Mystic

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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: Hierophant]
#18808984 - 09/06/13 07:34 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Do you believe in "Satan" ?
-------------------- There is a golden book kept in my heart and guarded by my soul, written in Divine Light and bound with the veins of the Earth.
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teknix
𓂀⟁𓅢𓍝𓅃𓊰𓉡 𓁼𓆗⨻



Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: Hierophant]
#18808994 - 09/06/13 07:35 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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No, neither do I disbelieve in him, the same goes for god.
IE; they are stupid questions. Mu.
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Hierophant
Ritualistic Mystic

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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: Hierophant]
#18809008 - 09/06/13 07:37 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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... Why do we anthropomorphize concepts like "god" and the "devil" ???
-------------------- There is a golden book kept in my heart and guarded by my soul, written in Divine Light and bound with the veins of the Earth.
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Hierophant
Ritualistic Mystic

Registered: 03/28/13
Posts: 942
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: Hierophant]
#18809041 - 09/06/13 07:44 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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It's a polarity of potential, both exist within us
-------------------- There is a golden book kept in my heart and guarded by my soul, written in Divine Light and bound with the veins of the Earth.
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Duncan Rowhl
Fiducia Christum



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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: teknix]
#18810588 - 09/07/13 05:41 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
teknix said: Think about the holy trinity; the father, the son, the holy spirit.
What about it?
Can you elaborate?
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treesniper119
No one of Consequence



Registered: 08/12/08
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Loc: rainbow land
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Markos... what do you know about cultivating mushin? Why did you give up kanehbos/bhang (cannabis) you mentioned that you got burnt out on cbn/indica (sleepy,tired, negative side effects) Surely you would know your substance & its origins before ramdomly toking on w/e strain was available...tsk tsk  You know that we produce endo cannabinoids called anandamide... root ananda, meaning bliss! Sahaj Samadhi and the qualities that come from that state of being sound very familiar to me. (miracles, synchronicities, bio location, psi etc.) i have been discussing these things in great detail on a few original topics on shroomery. i believe the sativa varities of cannabis would have been the correct tool described in many texts. you don't get sleepy tired thoughts or lethargy with sativa. in fact there wasn't much indica going around back then... sativa brings mental bliss, soaring energetic mental stimulation. like the aptly named satori by mandala seeds? Pure blissful spiritual high, strong meditative qualities. Cultivating mushin is the key, for every thought, action, occurance, or happening....its MUSHIN all the way there & back & throughout.
Edited by treesniper119 (09/07/13 07:32 AM)
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zzripz
Stranger


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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: treesniper119]
#18811292 - 09/07/13 11:46 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Jesus and Satan.
CAN you have image of yourself as Jesus.
Somwe mad people (I do not use that term derogatorily, but as in Mad Pride) in extreme states can actually think themselves as 'Jesus' or the Virgin Mary etc. So these archetypes can exist in some kind of dimension in deeper mythical layers of our psyche...
Same will be so for 'Satan'.
In other words ALL the characters in mythology--A L L (and ones not creatively even imagined yet, possibly) are 'you' --are the living being of 'you' in potentia
Imagine having a trip, and you play psychodrama. One of you has the role of 'Jesus' and another 'Satan'--how would you act these parts?
Just imagine~~~
Edited by zzripz (09/07/13 11:49 AM)
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: treesniper119]
#18811490 - 09/07/13 12:47 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I know what Mushin is, but that is a condition, owing to the term, that best fits Bushido philosophy. I am not into martial arts, nor do I prefer Japanese Buddhist idoms, but I am into the corollaries of satori, and kensho. Getting stoned on cannabis in any form is just that, getting stoned on cannabis. It is a mistake to identify intoxication with more rarified attainments. No, I didn't know what strain I was using because (1) I preferred hashish to marijuana, and (2) I quit before you were born, when it was ALL C. Sativa, and High Times Magazine (I still own Vol. 1, Issue 1) was only a few years old. The cultivation culture that you were born into didn't exist in 1979. Also, when I was pretty young, it was ALL about states of bliss, amandamide or cannabinoid didn't matter. States come and go, they are not my True Nature which is what I want to Know/Identify with.
Stoning is not like a monthly mushroom trip, it is a lifestyle that I let go of while beginning work on my Ph.D. in 1979, and which I completed in 1983. There was no time to lie around stoned. I had exhausted my life savings the first year (a mere $6000), my 2 year graduate assistantship ended, and I began working part-time as a substance abuse counselor. Hypocrisy is not a character trait I wanted to embody, so when I went into that field in the private and then the public sector, I wanted to be genuine. My position on cannabis to adolescents has always been negative. Cannabis hurt my motivation to do better in high school because I had personal and developmental issues that I used it for. Instead of socializing more, which would've been helpful for my introverted nature, I withdrew further. My emotional age when I left college at age 22 was still about 17, and cannabis had an influence in that bit of social-emotional retardation.
Now, at age 60, the last thing I want to do is cultivate slowness in neural transmission and pre-senile dementia! Stoned friends seem like idiots around me. Their short-term memory is disrupted, they appear confused, have psycho-motor retardation (awkward, slow movement), they can't follow quick witted humor but laugh at truly stupid little mistakes and such. No appeal in any of that, nor is there any novelty in it. Hey I smoked for the first time New Year's Eve 1968-69. Jimi Hendrix had a concert being simulcast on NYC radio live. My era ended, and I grew out of certain behaviors. Some of my peers didn't, and they got fixated and stultified in their development. Cannabis was a crutch for me. Once I could stand, walk, and run on my own, the crutch only became an impediment. I don't take drugs when I need to chill, I sit, and I never get bored because I'm an avid reader, but I can't understand Jack Shit when I'm stoned. I also do not want amber-colored neurons. They should remain crystal clear along with my awareness. So there you have it. But, I would never interfere with anyone else's decision to use cannabis if [s]he wanted to. To each his/her own.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:
teknix said: Then do you think that Jesus was anything more than a man? Maybe at a higher caliber of intelligence than his peers at the time, but a man none-the-less?
Or what do you mean by "Christ or Christ Consciousness" ?
I don't think we have any real evidence that Jesus really ever existed, do we?
Because you said that: "Christ means 'anointed,' as with chrism, oil, whence the term. To anoint kings in Israel was a symbolic act, imputing the 'divine right of kingship,' which lends authority. Iesous however, denied any worldly kingship, but claimed to be a king of a spiritual kingdom, according to the story lines. "
But you also said that Jesus was in it, so how can he be in chrism, oil? And how is that relevant to anything? It seems like you are saying it means one thing and then using it in a completely different context, but I am probably missing something.

(BTW, thanks for posting, I generally find your posts quite informative.)
Christ means anointed by chrism. The act of anointing symbolized a sort of crowning, as a king, pouring oil on one's head. Christ consciousness is the biblical "mind of Christ," which believers hope to receive by grace. It is the consciousness or "mind" which is the Logos itself. In the history of thought, the Logos is the first emanation from the Unmanifested Godhead. In ancient Egypt, Ra or the later hybridized Amun-Ra might be the Unmanifest Godhead, and Thoth was the 'tongue' or 'word' of God, the Logos in Greek. Iesous the Christ was 'a man anointed by God' according to the 3 synoptic (same-view) gospels: Mark, Matthew, and Luke. Much later (90-120 CE) John's gospel wrote about "the Word" in the first few lines called the Prologue (Pro-Logos). In John's gospel, Iesous was not 'a man anointed by God,' but rather, 'God clothed in flesh.' This latter idea over-shadowed the earlier notion of a man anointed by God, and reeked of Greek mythology wherein it was common for God (Greek: Zeus, Latin: Deus) to impregnate a mortal woman and create a demigod- a god-man like Heracles, Dionysius, and others. This is a major reason why Jews did not accept this doctrine. The Jews had their own mythology, and in it, God never takes form, human or otherwise. Theophanies are angelic beings (Seraphim, Nephilim, Cherubim, etc.) - pillars of flame, burning bushes, etc. are not God.
Iesous was a man if he existed historically at all. The various birth, life, death, and resurrection motifs are lifted practically verbatim from the Egyptian Coffin and Pyramid texts. The person was written to be the focus of numerous prophesies in the Tenach (OT). Myth is very important in the psycho-history of humankind. We need myth, and they are still being produced by culture and the media. Myth derives from collective levels of the human unconscious, the Collective Unconscious, or Archetypal Mind. Iesous is a major embodiment of the central symbol of the Collective Unconscious - the higher Self. He represents generic man, and his dual nature speaks for every human being. We are all a composite of temporality and Eternity, although Iesous is depicted as being a unique specie of being, which would NOT be relevant to any of us. Iesous is the archetype, the paradigm for all of us. Most of us do not live up to the Truth of this and act in godly ways, but prefer to act like mere mammals, some more undeveloped and primitive than others. Some humanoids behave in truly reptilian ways, cold-hearted, blood-thirsty, and little more than instinctive creatures. Iesous the Christ symbolizes the epitome of fully human development IMO.
Love others Love yourself Love god Love everything god has created, nature, houseplants, insects, pets i.e.
I don't think jesus was satan :-) too much love
satan is the opposite , hate, despair, temptation, lust, greed
but we got both god and satan in all of us, it is up to ourselves to break free
when I see another animal or person I see the same soul as myself, as long as I stay away from stress / pills / drugs most of the time (moderation) and I feel connected somehow
accept & forgive instead of letting emotions run away with us, that is what jesus taught (turn the other cheek) (don't live by thoughts/desires/emotions, they're a prison)
giving is better than receiving (a helping hand is never forgotten) helping others brings peace appreciating what we have brings peace too worshiping god does too (many ways to do that... live in gods name always, don't live by desires)
play guitar for peace, dance for peace, notice the miracles of nature simple lifestyle, nature everyday
and try to limit own destruction of the earth, make contributions instead the earth is a good place to be if we notice it
I think jesus was a prophet and that god sends as many prophets that he needs to (gods words speak/work through many humans, don't doubt that, know it) doesn't matter if the prophet is muhammed, jesus etc. have mostly only read from the bible, agree with most of it
although it's been a while :-) hopefully one day I get the time when I get old 
but I believe in one loving god that wants what is best for us, and no coincidences, everything is well planned, it's just easy to forget by eating pills/being stressed
always appreciate what we have
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teknix
𓂀⟁𓅢𓍝𓅃𓊰𓉡 𓁼𓆗⨻



Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: lessismore]
#18811590 - 09/07/13 01:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Satan is most adequately described as THE Master of Deception, (not a master, THE master) do you think he could be such a master is he announced and displayed his intent?
Sure, he feeds off those things you mentioned above, and who has provided more food for him than anyone else?
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: lessismore]
#18811625 - 09/07/13 01:31 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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There are many people connected with the source/god either partially or almost fully, but we shouldn't worship them, but instead see them as a fellow human being
the potential to connect with god is in everyone of us, when we do things right
they have made mistakes too, like all of us, and learned from them :-)
jesus is just a symbol on a person who is pure, unconditional love
we can learn a lot from that..
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