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Skydyn
Stranger
Registered: 03/19/13
Posts: 16
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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The general pattern of things... you guys know what I mean, right?
#18787787 - 09/02/13 12:07 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hi everyone. I've come here to ask about something that I feel is an extremely common notion, but one that is rarely ever talked about.
In the past two years, my group of 6ish close friends all started smoking marijuana, and subsequently using psychedelic drugs. As a result, most of us have all come to understand this idea which we refer to as "the thing." It's this extremely abstract notion, incommunicable in its pure form, that seems to describe most things and their interactions. A more concrete version of this notion is described by the notion of the so-called "hero's journey" or "heroic monomyth" popularized by Joseph Campbell. More abstractly, it's a cyclical or oscillating pattern between opposite things that recurs, and is sort of embedded within itself. Like I said, I can't really describe the idea, but I suspect that many here will know what I'm talking about.
I have occasionally encountered other people outside of my friend who understand this idea. Some of them have used psychedelic drugs and come to understanding this notion in that way, and others have come to understand it without ever touching drugs. The interesting thing about meeting people who understand this idea is that they always understand it exactly as I do. Everyone who I meet who has this notion has the exact same one, and agrees on pretty much every aspect of it.
However, I have been unable to find any information on the internet about this phenomena except for very vague and brief references to what seems like this idea. And whenever people discuss the non-visual effects of psychedelic drugs, everyone just seems to sort of avoid or talk around this notion, for various reasons that I am probably aware of, e.g., you can just keep thinking about it and not get anywhere, or maybe it's the "path to insanity," or that people sometimes think about it and aren't prepared so have a "bad trip," the personal or awkward nature of it, etc. But nonetheless, I would expect this thing to be the most talked about idea on Shroomery, and in discussions about psychedelic drugs in general, but it's just not.
So, uhh, you guys get what I'm talking about, right? If so, please... let's discuss it.
Edited by Skydyn (09/02/13 11:41 AM)
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heratogwea



Registered: 05/05/11
Posts: 607
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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Re: The general pattern of things... you guys know what I mean, right? [Re: Skydyn]
#18788006 - 09/02/13 01:45 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Life.death.rebirth.
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sailing
China Cat Sunflower



Registered: 09/21/11
Posts: 3,534
Loc: United States
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Re: The general pattern of things... you guys know what I mean, right? [Re: heratogwea]
#18788036 - 09/02/13 01:58 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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dont worry, the video is short
-------------------- Love is the deep spiritual connection between the self and all things. We are all a part of the same universe. Crazy cat peekin through a lace bandanna,like a one eyed cheshire, like a diamond eyed jack.
Edited by sailing (09/02/13 01:58 AM)
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight


Registered: 09/02/13
Posts: 3,763
Last seen: 5 years, 5 days
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Re: The general pattern of things... you guys know what I mean, right? [Re: sailing]
#18788158 - 09/02/13 03:16 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hello! Long time lurker, but your post made me want to register so I could tell you that, yes, my friends and I know what you are talking about. And no, I can't discuss it. It seems to me words are not enough, you know?
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: The general pattern of things... you guys know what I mean, right? [Re: Skydyn] 1
#18788301 - 09/02/13 04:45 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
However, I have been unable to find any information on the internet about this phenomena except for very vague and brief references to what seems like this idea. And whenever people discuss the non-visual effects of psychedelic drugs, everyone just seems to sort of avoid or talk around this notion, for various reasons that I am probably aware of, e.g., you can just keep thinking about it and not get anywhere, or maybe it's the "path to insanity," or that people sometimes think about it and aren't prepared so have a "bad trip," the personal or awkward nature of it, etc. But nonetheless, I would expect this thing to be the most talked about idea on Shroomery, and in discussions about psychedelic drugs in general, but it's just not.
Yeah, you're talking about one of the (many) aspects of the Tao, the great Way of heaven. Bring it up here unless it's the right circumstances and people will just disbelieve you, unless they've experienced it directly. That's built into it. Lao Tsu said something like this:
When a superior man hears of the Tao, he immediately begins to embody it. When an average man hears of the Tao, he half believes it, half doubts it. When a foolish man hears of the Tao, he laughs out loud. If he didn't laugh, it wouldn't be the Tao.
Quote that here and see how many people refuse to believe the shoe fits perfectly. 
Keep on trucking.
You'll find that almost everybody has SOME understanding of this from their life, if you wait for the natural opening to arise before mentioning it. If you try to force it on them they'll deny it with their dying breath, even as it gives them life. 
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Bawks
Sleepy z_z



Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 707
Loc: 'Cid City
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: The general pattern of things... you guys know what I mean, right? [Re: Turtletotem]
#18788314 - 09/02/13 04:53 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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To sum all this up in one sentence: The objective in life is to get as many people as possible to try shrooms (responsibly).
-------------------- Savor the best and embrace the worst
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JacksonMetaller
Stranger

Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 13,361
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: The general pattern of things... you guys know what I mean, right? [Re: Bawks]
#18788578 - 09/02/13 07:28 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Pretty sure I know where you're going. The idea that all things in life are connected by this pattern? That you could follow the loop down any area of existence and find the same set of principles in effect? Like you said, hard to explain, but it seems to make a whole lot of sense intuitively.
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sailing
China Cat Sunflower



Registered: 09/21/11
Posts: 3,534
Loc: United States
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Re: The general pattern of things... you guys know what I mean, right? [Re: JacksonMetaller] 1
#18788581 - 09/02/13 07:31 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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-------------------- Love is the deep spiritual connection between the self and all things. We are all a part of the same universe. Crazy cat peekin through a lace bandanna,like a one eyed cheshire, like a diamond eyed jack.
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gornyhuy
A Myth Intrepidly Met



Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 2,933
Loc: USA
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: The general pattern of things... you guys know what I mean, right? [Re: sailing]
#18789174 - 09/02/13 11:03 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm with ya brother! Your 3rd eye has been squeegeed! Attempt to talk too much about spirituality and the psychedelic experience here and you'll be mocked for trying to impose your "pretentious rules" on the drug experience.
Dig into Alan Watts, Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, Sri Ramana Maharshi, many modern teachers of non-duality, etc and you'll find the "perennial philosophy" hinted at, pointed at indirectly. Check out the Urban Guru Cafe podcasts for a really nice set of 100 audio programs from various teachers. Mooji... Sailor Bob Adamson... so many clear voices out there.
I like the way David Carse says it repeatedly in "Perfect Brilliant Stillness" - "Does Exist. Cannot be expressed."
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sailing
China Cat Sunflower



Registered: 09/21/11
Posts: 3,534
Loc: United States
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Re: The general pattern of things... you guys know what I mean, right? [Re: gornyhuy] 1
#18789195 - 09/02/13 11:08 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I have a hard time listening to other teachers of eastern philosophy, alan watts is really the only one that can articulate the concepts in such a clear and precise way. Semantics is an extremely powerful tool, that can convey any message if you know language well enough, watts studied language his whole life and because of that, he can articulate any idea clearly.
-------------------- Love is the deep spiritual connection between the self and all things. We are all a part of the same universe. Crazy cat peekin through a lace bandanna,like a one eyed cheshire, like a diamond eyed jack.
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Sleepwalker
Overshoes

Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
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Re: The general pattern of things... you guys know what I mean, right? [Re: Skydyn]
#18789249 - 09/02/13 11:15 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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OP, your post is so vague that you could be talking about virtually anything...hmm...maybe that's the point!
and yeah, I think I know what I think you are talking about.
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zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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Re: The general pattern of things... you guys know what I mean, right? [Re: Sleepwalker]
#18789346 - 09/02/13 11:42 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I happen to be researching about this quite deeply. I dont usually like stuff with 'mono' on the front, such as monoculture where all diversity is suppressed by massive slabs of same planting, and you see this same mindset in culture--we are all supposed to be 'normal'--all that
Then nono-tone. who likes that?
dare I say mono-gamy. sticking with one partner for 80 years.
errrm, and then we have the soc-alled monomyth. This is where the 'whiteman' decides that ALL myths of the world in all times MUST fit HIS idea of a monomyth. well I dont buy it. I like to question
Also Campbell's theory was taken up or vice verse by Jung and his theory of the 'Self'
It is all about a 'hero'--usually male who goes through trials and is reborn. But it could be argued that this hero concept is static, and is source of separation from nature
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sailing
China Cat Sunflower



Registered: 09/21/11
Posts: 3,534
Loc: United States
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Re: The general pattern of things... you guys know what I mean, right? [Re: zzripz]
#18789362 - 09/02/13 11:48 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Im more of a dualistic pantheist, where the body and spirit reside in separate realms, i've always though monistic pantheism has more to do with the body and spirit being one.
-------------------- Love is the deep spiritual connection between the self and all things. We are all a part of the same universe. Crazy cat peekin through a lace bandanna,like a one eyed cheshire, like a diamond eyed jack.
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Agentchewy
Pantheism.


Registered: 12/12/12
Posts: 3,960
Loc: vietnam
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: The general pattern of things... you guys know what I mean, right? [Re: Bawks] 1
#18789451 - 09/02/13 12:10 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bawks said: To sum all this up in one sentence: The objective in life is to get as many people as possible to try shrooms (responsibly).
"Once in awhile you're shown the light, in the strangest places, if you look at it right."
--------------------
If I knew the way, I would take you home.
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Skydyn
Stranger
Registered: 03/19/13
Posts: 16
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Re: The general pattern of things... you guys know what I mean, right? [Re: gornyhuy]
#18789455 - 09/02/13 12:10 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
heratogwea said: Life.death.rebirth.
Yeah, but it's more abstract than that. That's more concrete than just the pure idea.
Quote:
sailing said: dont worry, the video is short
Yeah, I have thought about that and it's one of the implications of the thing.
Quote:
PrimalSoup said: Yeah, you're talking about one of the (many) aspects of the Tao, the great Way of heaven. Bring it up here unless it's the right circumstances and people will just disbelieve you, unless they've experienced it directly. That's built into it. Lao Tsu said something like this:
When a superior man hears of the Tao, he immediately begins to embody it. When an average man hears of the Tao, he half believes it, half doubts it. When a foolish man hears of the Tao, he laughs out loud. If he didn't laugh, it wouldn't be the Tao.
Quote that here and see how many people refuse to believe the shoe fits perfectly. 
Keep on trucking.
You'll find that almost everybody has SOME understanding of this from their life, if you wait for the natural opening to arise before mentioning it. If you try to force it on them they'll deny it with their dying breath, even as it gives them life. 
PS
I have looked into various religions from before the era of monotheism, and they all seem to have this notion embedded in them. I know a schizophrenic, nontheistic Pagan who gets the thing so well, and Taoism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Paganism, etc. are littered with references to the thing. Can you elaborate a little more on why you see it specifically as Taoism? (if that is indeed the case)
Quote:
Bawks said: To sum all this up in one sentence: The objective in life is to get as many people as possible to try shrooms (responsibly).
Yeah, but I wonder how ethical that is. This notion really isn't all fun and games. It sorta makes things feel boring and empty and predictable.
Quote:
JacksonMetaller said: Pretty sure I know where you're going. The idea that all things in life are connected by this pattern? That you could follow the loop down any area of existence and find the same set of principles in effect? Like you said, hard to explain, but it seems to make a whole lot of sense intuitively.
Yeah, that's what I mean. So abstract that it's very hard to describe.
Quote:
sailing said:

What about it?
Quote:
gornyhuy said: I'm with ya brother! Your 3rd eye has been squeegeed! Attempt to talk too much about spirituality and the psychedelic experience here and you'll be mocked for trying to impose your "pretentious rules" on the drug experience.
Dig into Alan Watts, Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, Sri Ramana Maharshi, many modern teachers of non-duality, etc and you'll find the "perennial philosophy" hinted at, pointed at indirectly. Check out the Urban Guru Cafe podcasts for a really nice set of 100 audio programs from various teachers. Mooji... Sailor Bob Adamson... so many clear voices out there.
I like the way David Carse says it repeatedly in "Perfect Brilliant Stillness" - "Does Exist. Cannot be expressed."
Non-duality? But yeah, I'll check it out.
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sailing
China Cat Sunflower



Registered: 09/21/11
Posts: 3,534
Loc: United States
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Re: The general pattern of things... you guys know what I mean, right? [Re: Skydyn]
#18789497 - 09/02/13 12:17 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Skydyn said:
Quote:
sailing said:
What about it?
thats the pattern
-------------------- Love is the deep spiritual connection between the self and all things. We are all a part of the same universe. Crazy cat peekin through a lace bandanna,like a one eyed cheshire, like a diamond eyed jack.
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sailing
China Cat Sunflower



Registered: 09/21/11
Posts: 3,534
Loc: United States
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Re: The general pattern of things... you guys know what I mean, right? [Re: sailing] 1
#18789500 - 09/02/13 12:18 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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-------------------- Love is the deep spiritual connection between the self and all things. We are all a part of the same universe. Crazy cat peekin through a lace bandanna,like a one eyed cheshire, like a diamond eyed jack.
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SomeGuyX
The Ganja Mahn



Registered: 11/04/12
Posts: 1,132
Last seen: 10 months, 27 days
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Re: The general pattern of things... you guys know what I mean, right? [Re: sailing]
#18789786 - 09/02/13 12:55 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
sailing said:
dont worry, the video is short
Damn, so true.
--------------------
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: The general pattern of things... you guys know what I mean, right? [Re: Skydyn]
#18789788 - 09/02/13 12:55 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
I have looked into various religions from before the era of monotheism, and they all seem to have this notion embedded in them. I know a schizophrenic, nontheistic Pagan who gets the thing so well, and Taoism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Paganism, etc. are littered with references to the thing. Can you elaborate a little more on why you see it specifically as Taoism? (if that is indeed the case)
It's not "Taoism" it's not "Buddhism" it's not "perennial philosophy" it's not "monotheism" it's none of these things. It's not any kind of religion - all religions are bullshit. There's nothing you or anybody can say about it that explains it in any way. That's why when you sense it you go and everybody else goes back and says "yeah man I know what you mean" but you can't talk about it at all.
Getting to where you finally give up attempting to understand it with language or similar tools is half the battle, or journey. Only then do you start to follow it full time - sometimes you lead, sometimes it leads, but the dance never ends, never stops. The dance of Shiva - that's about as close as you can get. 
PS
--------------------
if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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elgatogordo
weightless


Registered: 10/06/11
Posts: 494
Last seen: 11 months, 11 days
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Re: The general pattern of things... you guys know what I mean, right? [Re: PrimalSoup]
#18789957 - 09/02/13 01:33 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said:
Quote:
I have looked into various religions from before the era of monotheism, and they all seem to have this notion embedded in them. I know a schizophrenic, nontheistic Pagan who gets the thing so well, and Taoism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Paganism, etc. are littered with references to the thing. Can you elaborate a little more on why you see it specifically as Taoism? (if that is indeed the case)
It's not "Taoism" it's not "Buddhism" it's not "perennial philosophy" it's not "monotheism" it's none of these things. It's not any kind of religion - all religions are bullshit. There's nothing you or anybody can say about it that explains it in any way. That's why when you sense it you go and everybody else goes back and says "yeah man I know what you mean" but you can't talk about it at all.
Getting to where you finally give up attempting to understand it with language or similar tools is half the battle, or journey. Only then do you start to follow it full time - sometimes you lead, sometimes it leads, but the dance never ends, never stops. The dance of Shiva - that's about as close as you can get. 
PS
This...
Abstract music and art are also means to communicate the unspeakable. Sounds like you've got the message OP, now all there is to do is practice!
-------------------- "To those who doubt - your wounds will never heal To those who question my creation - I'm not real"
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