Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   North Spore Cultivation Supplies

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]
Anonymous #1

Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month
    #18784205 - 09/01/13 05:49 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

looking to see what the consensus is here.

long story short, my roomate and I moved out and went separate ways about halfway through August.  I have paid rent without a hiccup for the last 6 years.  However, my former roomate paid the last month's (August) rent in full despite us both leaving before the end of the month.

I had a verbal agreement with the landlord that I would move to my new place and then slowly move the rest of my stuff out over the rest of the month.  He told me to have it all out by September.

Fast forward to yesterday, August 31.  After being out of cell-coverage for the entire day, I finally receive two voicemails at approx 5pm recorded and 9:30 and 11:30 am from my landlord effectively telling me I've left the place a shithole, he's changed the locks, and thrown all my stuff away in the dump.

Now I know I waited until the last minute to get some of the last stuff out, but I am pretty sure what he did (entering, changing locks, and then destroying personal property) is illegal.

I arrived to the apartment to find he had indeed told the truth, and changed the locks.  I called the police and spoke with an extremely friendly officer who showed up.

To sum up, they called him and his wife came over to let me in and grab the last remaining stuff.  He did leave behind some larger, more valuable things such as a large fishtank and stand, a TV, and a microwave, but everything else was thrown out.  part of me thinks he left the big stuff because he knew what he was doing was illegal.

Most of the thrown away stuff is more sentimental in nature and would be hard to put a dollar value on.  Things like my artwork: drawings, paintings, fragile sculptures... a lifelong shell collection, an electric guitar that my roomate accidentally left behind, a smaller fishtank and equipment, blah blah blah.


this is starting to get long, so the gist of it is that I am wondering what you guys think.  I know I can take him to small claims court as he definitely broke the law.  I have two voicemails from him dated for Aug 31 explaining everything he did.  I have a utility bill showing I paid electricity for most of August and thus was technically residing there. I have witnesses (neighbors) that can testify that I had been there on and off all month cleaning, including the night of the 30th.  The only messy part is that my roomate paid the last rent check, so it is in his name and not mine, but I can easily have him give me a copy of the check. 

so what should i do?  part of me wants to leave it all behind and never talk to or see him again.  We were on great terms for 6 years.  I never missed a payment and he and his wife referred to me as their best tenant ever.  The other part of me is seething with anger for the abrupt 180 he pulled, and I couldn't sleep much last night, fell asleep at 2 and woke up again angry at 6.

what should I do shroomery?

I am off to the town dump to see if I can find some of my stuff.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Anonymous #2

Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Anonymous #1] * 4
    #18784267 - 09/01/13 06:36 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I would sue him for the maximum allowable in small claims court. The guy is a dick. If you paid For August he can't lock you out on the 31st. Is your name on the lease?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Anonymous #1

Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Anonymous #2] * 1
    #18784377 - 09/01/13 08:02 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

no written lease, just month by month via check for the last 6 years.  i looked up the law and this is more than enough proof of a verbal lease.  i also have utility bills for every month during the same time.  i can retrieve bank copies of each rent check, only bump in the road is the last one was not mine but the roomates.  the intent, however, was still to pay for the entire month and have up to today to move out.

there are obviously no eviction notices served or anything of that sort, so him even entering the property unannounced is illegal in my state.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Anonymous #2

Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #18784400 - 09/01/13 08:17 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I doubt it matters who wrote the check. File the lawsuit and tell him you will settle out of court for 2500.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineReposadoXochipilli
Here, there, inbetween
Male User Gallery


Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 7,501
Loc: Sand and sunshine
Last seen: 19 days, 11 hours
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #18785125 - 09/01/13 12:37 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

asses the value lost and at a later date visit equal misfortune to them :shrug:

court will be nothing but he said she said.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMasked
The Nutter
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 8,979
Loc: Canada Flag
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: ReposadoXochipilli] * 3
    #18785390 - 09/01/13 01:45 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Knewnews said:
asses the value lost and at a later date visit equal misfortune to them :shrug:

court will be nothing but he said she said.





Horrible advice.  As an experienced landlord, I will tell you, it's very cut and dry.  Court would be the opposite of "he said, she said".  You have all the proper evidence to win op, and your fees for filing.  Dont hesitate and get on it now.

Trust me..what he did was very wrong.  You will win


--------------------
.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleShroomismM
Space Travellin
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension Flag
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Anonymous #1] * 1
    #18785841 - 09/01/13 03:42 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Do it. Take his ass to small claims. I'm no lawyer but this seems pretty cut and dry.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Anonymous #2

Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Shroomism]
    #18785989 - 09/01/13 04:16 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Judge Judy would be merciless on the landlord.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAlan RockefellerM
Mycologist
Male User Gallery
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
Last seen: 5 hours, 52 minutes
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #18786775 - 09/01/13 07:57 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Make sure you save the voicemails as mp3 files before they get deleted by the system...


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Anonymous #2

Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #18788639 - 09/02/13 07:58 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Bring the police report to court.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,499
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Anonymous #1] * 2
    #18788814 - 09/02/13 09:20 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Dude, it's not even a close question of what you should do. Take him to small claims court.  You have a slam dunk case, and he is on the hook for everything.  In addition, I'd ask for punitive damages because his conduct was wanton, malicious, and intentional.

Seriously, there is no reason whatsoever NOT to take him to court.  You have tons of evidence.  The cops were called, so you have a police report.  You have voicemails.  The guy is fucked, and he knows it.

In addition, who paid the rent, OR EVEN IF THE RENT WAS PAID, is completely irrelevant.  Don't get hung up on that. 


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCounterCulturest
-Positive Mental Attitude-

Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 3,662
Loc: Nesting on modems
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Enlil] * 4
    #18789825 - 09/02/13 01:04 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

If this really happened like you said it did then you might haver scored man. You need to tell them about all the diamond rings and gold bars you had stashed in your stuff. Seriously. If he just threw your stuff out you need to be heavily compensated for this. I would empty this fuckers wallet as much as I could.  Try to claim 2x-3x the amount of $$$ you had invested in the shit he tossed. How fucking offensive dude.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCidneyIndole
www.shroomery.OG
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 4,761
Loc: Love's Secret Domain
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: CounterCulturest]
    #18800617 - 09/04/13 07:20 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

He and his wife say you're the best tenant they ever had, and then they pull this shit on you? You were clearly working on it, you just didn't have it done as fast as he wanted it, even though he told you, and you agreed to something else. Hell yeah you have the right to be pissed about this.

Listen to Enlil. Even if only for the next guy he would treat like shit that might not have the resources to hire a lawyer to fight it. Asshole landlords that get away with stupid BS are only emboldened when they get away with it....


...just like any other type of asshole, I suppose. :shrug:


--------------------
------------------------
I am me. We are You.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineallreadyused
The Liquor
Male


Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 480
Loc: Trailer Park, Nova Scotia
Last seen: 8 years, 23 days
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: CidneyIndole]
    #18804551 - 09/05/13 06:42 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I have pretty strict laws I have to follow when I evict someone from my properties.  If I have to take it that far I have to file papers for expulsion and I have to have a Sheriff do the actual kicking to the curb.  Any property has to be accounted for and placed in a storage unit for a period of time before I can throw it away.  As much as I would like to boot some deadbeats with extreme prejudice personally; I can't because I would be sued for everything I'm worth.  Although why he would kick you out if you were still paying is a mystery.


--------------------
Everything I say is for entertainment.

Fuck the ASPCA


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Anonymous #3

Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: CidneyIndole]
    #18806273 - 09/06/13 05:48 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

CidneyIndole said:
He and his wife say you're the best tenant they ever had, and then they pull this shit on you? You were clearly working on it, you just didn't have it done as fast as he wanted it, even though he told you, and you agreed to something else. Hell yeah you have the right to be pissed about this.

Listen to Enlil. Even if only for the next guy he would treat like shit that might not have the resources to hire a lawyer to fight it. Asshole landlords that get away with stupid BS are only emboldened when they get away with it....


...just like any other type of asshole, I suppose. :shrug:




Our new landlords tried to do what they did to OP when we moved in.

We were late on rent because we weren't home since the town was burning down.

They asked for another contact # and I gave them my lawyer's.

Never heard a word. Our insurance company said our shit would be covered if we failed in court. Check your policy if you have renter's. Or just call an agent.

Don't forget those gold bars and all that jewelry!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Anonymous #1

Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Anonymous #3]
    #18807583 - 09/06/13 02:00 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

thanks for all the replies everyone.  it seems like the consensus is pretty unanimous. 

i have started gathering the evidence and put in a request for a copy of the police report. 

i saved my voicemails as mp3 so they can not be lost.  i also heard a horror story from someone whose friend tried to take a phone into court as her only evidence, only to be told no phones allowed.  savethatcall.com is pretty awesome.

i printed out the last 6 years of rent checks from my bank's website.

this brings me to my next question.  i noticed that on many checks over the years (maybe a bit less than half) both the husband AND wife endorsed the checks before cashing them. 

i am now wondering if i should include both their names as defendants in the lawsuit.  i don't want to sue him and win only to find all their assets (and cash) are in her name and thus untouchable.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Anonymous #3

Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #18808752 - 09/06/13 06:47 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

If they're married sue them.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Anonymous #4

Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #18817774 - 09/09/13 04:00 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I've been doing some research on renter's rights lately... and what he did to you was MOST DEFINITELY ILLEGAL in pretty much every state.

He cannot just change the locks on you like that. And he ESPECIALLY cannot throw out your personal shit. Sue the ever living shit out of them.

Like Enlil said, it will be a slam dunk case. He fucked himself hard.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleVitalux
Stranger from the next universe
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/15/11
Posts: 2,695
Loc: Canada Flag
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Enlil]
    #18821464 - 09/10/13 12:03 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Spoken like a true lawyer.

I'm surprised that you did not slip in your business card and tell him you ...will defend him to his very last cent.


But in all seriousness, I am betting there is a bit more to this story than meets the eye.... but ...that is just me.
Its just a hunch.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,499
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Vitalux]
    #18822063 - 09/10/13 05:05 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

You might be right about there being more to the story.

And yes, I would represent the OP pro bono if he asked and lived in a state where I'm licensed. That's how I roll.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMasked
The Nutter
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 8,979
Loc: Canada Flag
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Vitalux]
    #18822069 - 09/10/13 05:08 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

sloantbone said:
Spoken like a true lawyer.

I'm surprised that you did not slip in your business card and tell him you ...will defend him to his very last cent.


But in all seriousness, I am betting there is a bit more to this story than meets the eye.... but ...that is just me.
Its just a hunch.





I am a landlord that has been through MANY shitty tenants and my advice was exactly what theirs was.

It wasn't just spoken by the lawyer. 

I had a tenant who ended up being a front for a gang.  Her references checked out, but that THAT time, didn't do criminal record checks.  Long story short...the house was being occupied by many, meth and crack were being dealt there, the police kicked the door down twice, which I had to repair and there was even a murder investigation that went down there.  We as landlords were even questioned and they wanted access to the shop(which the tenants don't have access too).  We started the eviction process immediately and it STILL took one month and 2 weeks to get them out.

Granted, BC has the worst tenancy laws in canada I'm betting(they protect the tenant and not the landlord).

My point is, there is so much you need to legally follow, even with SHIT tenants.

It doesn't matter what he has done or if there is more to the story. If his facts still remain, what the landlord did was HIGHLY illegal.


--------------------
.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,499
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Masked]
    #18822086 - 09/10/13 05:27 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Masked said:
It doesn't matter what he has done or if there is more to the story. If his facts still remain, what the landlord did was HIGHLY illegal.



That's correct.  The only additional fact that could change this basic truth is if the OP neglected to tell us that there was an unlawful detainer hearing where the judge ordered an eviction and the sheriffs served the order.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMasked
The Nutter
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 8,979
Loc: Canada Flag
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Enlil]
    #18822142 - 09/10/13 06:15 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

True.

In my example above, the judge ordered a 5 day eviction...and 3 additional days for the "order of posession"(see bc tenancy act).  At that point, once we have the order of posession, we could hire a bailiff to legally and physically remove tenant and belongings if they were still there.  but it also says in the act that once an order of possesion is obtained, if "the residence appears vacated" we can change the locks.

checked definitions of the act and realized it comes down to my opinion if its vacated :wink:

With order of posession, and being a locksmith, I rekeyed locks.

I still couldnt throw their stuff out though.  Had to store it for a period of time.

That was my first shit tenant.  I know the act inside and out now, but one thing remains.....all that stuff, from the paperwork and 50 dollar fee its costs to file it, to the conference call with the judge....its roughly still a month to force evict a shit tenant when they refuse to leave or pay rent.


--------------------
.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,499
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Masked]
    #18822160 - 09/10/13 06:23 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

And if a landlord makes a mistake in the process, he often has to start all over.  I've helped tenants stay for 6 months without paying rent.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMasked
The Nutter
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 8,979
Loc: Canada Flag
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Enlil]
    #18822260 - 09/10/13 07:17 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Exactly.

So to clarify with op and everyonr else....this is a clear cut win for op, all the way


--------------------
.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Anonymous #1

Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Vitalux]
    #18823817 - 09/10/13 03:12 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

there is really nothing more to the story that i haven't shared.

like i said, the only bump, and what the landlord was trying to argue (and the path I think he will take in court) is that I moved out the month before and my roomate paid for the last month.

however, even if that is true, and he thought the apartment abandoned, the state law says he must hold my possessions for a minimum of 30 days while trying to contact me to claim them.

instead, he purposefully threw the stuff out and told me so via voicemail.

i picked up the police report today.  the officers' narratives won't help me, as they wrote that I admitted the roomate was the last one to pay and i had moved out earlier (i disagree with the officer's conclusion that no crime was committed, but that's a different story).  all i really need from the police report is that it is dated for the 31 of august.  i'll let the judge figure the rest out.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKing Klick
That Guy Everyone Knows
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/13/11
Posts: 7,267
Last seen: 6 months, 30 days
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #18843406 - 09/15/13 04:47 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Update?


--------------------
Your god is dead, and I killed him.

When you’re lost, here I am. Forever with your soul



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Anonymous #1

Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #20757116 - 10/26/14 08:16 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

long overdue update.

it took me several months to be able to think rationally about the situation without emotions trying to get the better of me and make me do something stupid...

i also wanted to wait awhile to give him a false sense of security so that he would be less able to fabricate evidence against me, meaning i'm thinking he has no evidence for his counterclaim in the form of photographs before he rented the place out again...

a couple months back I started to process to bring this guy to small claims.

he lawyered up and then counterclaimed for the time he spent cleaning the place and for damage as well.

i have pictures of the place from when the police let me back in on the 31st showing that there is no significant damage beyond normal wear and tear.

i got the copy of the last check from the previous roomate, and we also worked out a statement supporting me that he is getting notarized and sending back to me.

i'm feeling pretty confident in my case, but the only hiccup now would be proving the worth of the valuables he destroyed.  many were more sentimental in value and irreplaceable.  I'm not sure how I can prove to the court what was destroyed since it's not like I had it categorized and itemized before this event.

i'm pretty sure I can prove what he did however, with the voicemail recordings of him literally saying, "all your stuff is at the dump," and  "the only thing left is the fish tank."

i came to a sum total of about $2100 that i am bringing against him,  I am not comfortable doing more because again, I can't prove what was there and therefore what the value was, but I am planning on leaning heavily on additional punitive damages to the maximum amount allowed.  i am pretty sure I can convince the judge of what happened.

my court date is in about three weeks.  wish me luck.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleReggieJenkins
Optical Illusion
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/20/14
Posts: 221
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #20758577 - 10/27/14 07:28 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Good luck, friend. Dealing with a shitty landlord is one thing, but dealing with him in court seems pretty daunting.

Good vibes! :mushroom2:


--------------------
I probably lost a few IQ points while using this site for a short time, it's like huffing paint but for your ego.

This site is cancer, and I will no longer encourage the spread.

You've been nothing but negative to me, and all I've tried to do is be nice.

This site is cancer.

You will never see me again.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,499
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #20758622 - 10/27/14 07:54 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Some suggestions:
Quote:

Anonymous said:
he lawyered up and then counterclaimed for the time he spent cleaning the place and for damage as well.


He has the burden of proof here, and he may or may not have pictures. Of course, you can claim that the property was damaged before you moved in.  I'd also argue that you can't, unfortunately, prove that with pictures because he threw out all of your belongings
Quote:


i have pictures of the place from when the police let me back in on the 31st showing that there is no significant damage beyond normal wear and tear.


This is good stuff.  Be organized at the hearing and clearly state when those shots were taken.
Quote:


i got the copy of the last check from the previous roomate, and we also worked out a statement supporting me that he is getting notarized and sending back to me.


The check is helpful, but he may argue that the check is for a previous months rent that was paid late
Quote:



i'm feeling pretty confident in my case, but the only hiccup now would be proving the worth of the valuables he destroyed.  many were more sentimental in value and irreplaceable.  I'm not sure how I can prove to the court what was destroyed since it's not like I had it categorized and itemized before this event.


You can't, but here is the basics of your argument:

"Judge, I would love to come in here with a complete list of everything that I lost, but I can't.  My memory isn't that perfect.  I could have reviewed photos to identify my belongings, but the landlord threw those out as well.  Simply put, judge, Defendant's actions not only deprived me of all of my belongings, but also deprived me of any evidence as to what those belongings were.  Many of these belongings were of sentimental value and couldn't be replaced at any cost.  Even if your honor were to award the statutory limit for small claims, it would still fall far short of making me whole."

Quote:



i came to a sum total of about $2100 that i am bringing against him,  I am not comfortable doing more because again, I can't prove what was there and therefore what the value was, but I am planning on leaning heavily on additional punitive damages to the maximum amount allowed.  i am pretty sure I can convince the judge of what happened.


You only have to prove with a preponderance of evidence.  That means your proof has to be slightly stronger than his.  You have your testimony of what you owned and lost.  He has, perhaps, his testimony of what he remembers throwing away.  He certainly didn't catalog all of your belongings.  If it's not too late, you should be asking for the max.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Anonymous #1

Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Enlil]
    #20759577 - 10/27/14 01:55 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Some suggestions:
Quote:

Anonymous said:
he lawyered up and then counterclaimed for the time he spent cleaning the place and for damage as well.


He has the burden of proof here, and he may or may not have pictures. Of course, you can claim that the property was damaged before you moved in.  I'd also argue that you can't, unfortunately, prove that with pictures because he threw out all of your belongings




tell me if i'm wrong, but if he is found guilty of illegally entering the residence, how can he charge me for cleaning the place while he was there illegally?  the pictures taken of the place the night of the 31st show it in spotless condition, so any cleaning he did was completed by the end of the day, and not the 2+ days, $1000+ worth of cleaning he is counterclaiming.


Quote:

Quote:


i have pictures of the place from when the police let me back in on the 31st showing that there is no significant damage beyond normal wear and tear.


This is good stuff.  Be organized at the hearing and clearly state when those shots were taken.
Quote:


i got the copy of the last check from the previous roomate, and we also worked out a statement supporting me that he is getting notarized and sending back to me.


The check is helpful, but he may argue that the check is for a previous months rent that was paid late




i have a copy of every check going back all the way to the beginning, so i'm thinking it would be pointless for him to try and argue that.  plus, i will have a statement from the roommate who wrote the check stating as much.  i also have an electricity bill for August 1-25.  Part of his counterclaim is that I allowed the electricity to be shut off, which caused food to rot in the fridge.  He told me to shut the electricity off after his wife switched it over after a week.  I waited over two weeks, but I guess the positive side is having a bill for the (majority of) the month of August is more evidence to support the fact that we had not abandoned the apartment.



Quote:

Quote:


i'm feeling pretty confident in my case, but the only hiccup now would be proving the worth of the valuables he destroyed.  many were more sentimental in value and irreplaceable.  I'm not sure how I can prove to the court what was destroyed since it's not like I had it categorized and itemized before this event.


You can't, but here is the basics of your argument:

"Judge, I would love to come in here with a complete list of everything that I lost, but I can't.  My memory isn't that perfect.  I could have reviewed photos to identify my belongings, but the landlord threw those out as well.  Simply put, judge, Defendant's actions not only deprived me of all of my belongings, but also deprived me of any evidence as to what those belongings were.  Many of these belongings were of sentimental value and couldn't be replaced at any cost.  Even if your honor were to award the statutory limit for small claims, it would still fall far short of making me whole."





i like that, i may add it to my opening statement.  i wrote the majority of my statement last night and got so heated again it was hard for me to fall asleep.


Quote:

Quote:



i came to a sum total of about $2100 that i am bringing against him,  I am not comfortable doing more because again, I can't prove what was there and therefore what the value was, but I am planning on leaning heavily on additional punitive damages to the maximum amount allowed.  i am pretty sure I can convince the judge of what happened.


You only have to prove with a preponderance of evidence.  That means your proof has to be slightly stronger than his.  You have your testimony of what you owned and lost.  He has, perhaps, his testimony of what he remembers throwing away.  He certainly didn't catalog all of your belongings.  If it's not too late, you should be asking for the max.





are you saying i should have asked for the max when filing the papers?  if so, i missed the boat on that.  i thought i was supposed to file for property damage and then ask for additional punitive damages once in court.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,499
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #20759685 - 10/27/14 02:15 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Anonymous said:

tell me if i'm wrong, but if he is found guilty of illegally entering the residence, how can he charge me for cleaning the place while he was there illegally?  the pictures taken of the place the night of the 31st show it in spotless condition, so any cleaning he did was completed by the end of the day, and not the 2+ days, $1000+ worth of cleaning he is counterclaiming.


He won't be found "guilty" of anything.  This isn't a criminal matter.  His illegal entry is probably not a crime, and even if it was, he wasn't charged with it.  What matters in this case is how his illegal conduct harmed you, and how much, if any, of that harm is offset by the damages done by your illegal conduct (damaging the property).

Your pictures are evidence to support:

1. The property was clean BEFORE your right to possess legally ended.
2. He probably didn't spend two days cleaning, and
3. If he did, it was unnecessary.




Quote:


i have a copy of every check going back all the way to the beginning, so i'm thinking it would be pointless for him to try and argue that.  plus, i will have a statement from the roommate who wrote the check stating as much.  i also have an electricity bill for August 1-25.  Part of his counterclaim is that I allowed the electricity to be shut off, which caused food to rot in the fridge.  He told me to shut the electricity off after his wife switched it over after a week.  I waited over two weeks, but I guess the positive side is having a bill for the (majority of) the month of August is more evidence to support the fact that we had not abandoned the apartment.


The rent checks are helpful, yes.  The electricity issue is problematic unless you have some evidence of him telling you to disconnect after a week.  Still, how much damage can he really claim for rotten food in a fridge?  Not much.
Quote:


are you saying i should have asked for the max when filing the papers?  if so, i missed the boat on that.  i thought i was supposed to file for property damage and then ask for additional punitive damages once in court.



Probably, yes...every court is different, and small claims is kinda the "wild west" of courts.  You may or may not be able to get more than you originally asked for.  Fight for every penny, and the judge will decide.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineshroom_sensai
I'm a teapot User Gallery

Registered: 12/13/10
Posts: 1,049
Last seen: 2 years, 21 days
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Enlil]
    #20784589 - 11/02/14 03:36 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

keep us updated, i want to know how this story unfolds


--------------------
My Adventures Cultivating Mescaline Bearing Cacti

“Animals are something invented by plants to move seeds around. An extremely yang solution to a peculiar problem which they faced.”
– Terence McKenna


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineYrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,312
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: shroom_sensai]
    #20839706 - 11/15/14 06:47 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

*


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root


Edited by Yrat (01/06/15 12:59 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,499
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Yrat]
    #20839781 - 11/15/14 07:37 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

If this is small claims court, you won't get past the second sentence before the judge stops you.  I can help you here, but I need to know:  Is this small claims?


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineYrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,312
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Yrat]
    #20839793 - 11/15/14 07:41 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

*


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root


Edited by Yrat (01/06/15 12:59 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,499
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Yrat]
    #20839860 - 11/15/14 08:18 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Does it say that on the court website?  I've never seen a small claims judge let a litigant talk for 5 minutes without interrupting.  Maybe in small towns where they don't have so many cases...

In any case, you can have your prepared statement, but you also have to have a backup in case you get interrupted.  The judge is not likely to want to hear a story.  He want's the relevant facts and that's it.  Also, after you're interrupted, it's easy to forget important facts that have to come out.  Here are the important facts in logical order of presentation:

1. Defendant is my former landlord
2. Rent was paid through the end of August
3. Defendant threw my belongings away on August 31
4. My belongings included A, B, C, etc plus many things I can't possibly remember today.

For each of the above, be prepared to offer evidence, because the judge will likely ask...except 1.  The defendant will concede that fact.  He might concede 2 as well, but if not, have proof of payment.  For 3, the voicemails and any police report will suffice.  For 4, your testimony will likely suffice.  If he challenges your account of how much he threw out, then he's pretty much conceding number 3.

In any case, keep in mind the above facts.  If you don't get them out right away, be sure to get them out.  It's easy for things to get lost in the process.  The most likely one to get missed is 2 and the date on 3.  those are also very important.  A judge is likely to see this as a typical "stuff left behind, landlord throws them out" case.  It isn't.  Those cases are normally about stuff left AFTER the rental period.  The fact that this happened DURING the rental period makes it look far worse for the landlord, although the measure of damages is pretty much the same.

As far as his claims against you, he's going to get the opportunity to argue those.  You don't have to bring those up in your opening, because he has the burden of proving them, and you have the burden of rebutting his proof if he has any.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineYrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,312
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Enlil]
    #20839881 - 11/15/14 08:27 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

*


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root


Edited by Yrat (01/06/15 12:59 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineYrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,312
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Yrat]
    #20839954 - 11/15/14 08:54 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

*


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root


Edited by Yrat (01/06/15 12:59 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,499
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Yrat]
    #20839980 - 11/15/14 09:02 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

I seriously doubt his lawyer is going to argue that the roommate was the only tenant in August based on who paid the rent.  That's a dead-end argument.  Unless you gave him WRITTEN NOTICE that you were moving out at the end of July, he has nothing here.  The name on the check is irrelevant.

I would amend #3 to say, "On August 31, 2013, the last day of the lease, the defendant entered the apartment without prior written notice and threw away my remaining belongings."


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineYrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,312
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Enlil]
    #20840357 - 11/15/14 10:48 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

*


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root


Edited by Yrat (01/06/15 12:58 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineshroom_sensai
I'm a teapot User Gallery

Registered: 12/13/10
Posts: 1,049
Last seen: 2 years, 21 days
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Enlil]
    #20840582 - 11/15/14 11:37 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I seriously doubt his lawyer is going to argue that the roommate was the only tenant in August based on who paid the rent.  That's a dead-end argument.  Unless you gave him WRITTEN NOTICE that you were moving out at the end of July, he has nothing here.  The name on the check is irrelevant.

I would amend #3 to say, "On August 31, 2013, the last day of the lease, the defendant entered the apartment without prior written notice and threw away my remaining belongings."




bravo. just follow enlil's advice and you'll have this guy nailed to the wall.


--------------------
My Adventures Cultivating Mescaline Bearing Cacti

“Animals are something invented by plants to move seeds around. An extremely yang solution to a peculiar problem which they faced.”
– Terence McKenna


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePsilopsychosis
Male User Gallery


Registered: 07/06/13
Posts: 717
Loc: Flag
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: shroom_sensai]
    #20841841 - 11/15/14 04:22 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Gooduck op you got this.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleKing of Pain
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/25/12
Posts: 761
Loc: utah
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Psilopsychosis]
    #20844855 - 11/16/14 10:20 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Good luck OP. When is the big day this Tuesday?



Edited by King of Pain (11/16/14 10:22 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineYrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,312
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: King of Pain]
    #20850817 - 11/17/14 02:15 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

*


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root


Edited by Yrat (01/06/15 12:58 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineshroom_sensai
I'm a teapot User Gallery

Registered: 12/13/10
Posts: 1,049
Last seen: 2 years, 21 days
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Yrat]
    #20851747 - 11/17/14 05:02 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

good things come to those who wait. he's running scared.


--------------------
My Adventures Cultivating Mescaline Bearing Cacti

“Animals are something invented by plants to move seeds around. An extremely yang solution to a peculiar problem which they faced.”
– Terence McKenna


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Anonymous #1

Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: shroom_sensai] * 2
    #21077000 - 01/06/15 12:55 PM (9 years, 24 days ago)

well, trial was today.  won't know how it truly went until a couple weeks from now when the magistrate mails me her decision.

overall though, it seems like it went in my favor.  i had all the evidence for the initial claim.  his lawyer objected to my written appraisal from a professional sculptor, but he was overruled.

as for his evidence of $2300 worth of damage, he only had a few pictures of a dirty fridge, stove, and basement.  other tenants also had access to the basement, and none of the shit down there was mine, so the magistrate seemed to laugh at that assertion.  i also offered up the pictures that i took that same day showing the entire apartment cleaned and immaculate, so his claim of 2 people working 8 hour days for a week to clean the place, at $45 an hour, hopefully goes out the window.

i got the plug in for punitive damages, but we'll see what happens.  overall it was very low key and cut and dry.  the lawyer seemed somewhat blindsided since i didn't talk to him at all until the first time today.  he was sitting on one side of the story that was completely inaccurate.

his lawyer tried to settle with me before the hearing, offering me $500 instead of my claimed $2100.  I basically told him I would rather tell my story and get nothing than to let that asshole walk away thinking he got away with it for only $500.  i got the impression that the lawyer realized his client was a tool when i overhead him telling the landlord, "legally speaking, what you did, is completely out of bounds..." and "it was easier to talk with him than with you."

I'll keep you guys updated.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #21077057 - 01/06/15 01:09 PM (9 years, 24 days ago)

Good for you. I'm a landlord and I hate shitbags that do crap like your landlord did.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineshroom_sensai
I'm a teapot User Gallery

Registered: 12/13/10
Posts: 1,049
Last seen: 2 years, 21 days
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21079955 - 01/06/15 09:19 PM (9 years, 24 days ago)

word, sounds like youre gonna nail him


--------------------
My Adventures Cultivating Mescaline Bearing Cacti

“Animals are something invented by plants to move seeds around. An extremely yang solution to a peculiar problem which they faced.”
– Terence McKenna


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDrRedBush
I'm unpasteurized
Male User Gallery
Registered: 12/03/14
Posts: 1,325
Loc: 1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: shroom_sensai]
    #21080047 - 01/06/15 09:32 PM (9 years, 24 days ago)

You have the right to be secure in your own home.

That's all you need to say to the judge.

Bring proof of residency for the month he threw out all your stuff

Also bring an itemized list of everything destroyed with what you value each item at.

What he did was criminal.

Police report and voicemails are just icing on the cake when he tries to counterclaim.

When you talk to the judge keep it as short and sweet as possible.

You want to be clear and concise when you talk to the judge

Long stories will confuse the judge.

If he says you damaged the place claim the damage was done while he was throwing away your shit.

I see it as an easy case to win if you keep your cool.

Also when the judge makes you two deliberate before the trial tell him you want 5,000 unless he wants to be embarrassed in front of a judge.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDrRedBush
I'm unpasteurized
Male User Gallery
Registered: 12/03/14
Posts: 1,325
Loc: 1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: DrRedBush]
    #21080053 - 01/06/15 09:34 PM (9 years, 24 days ago)

Shit sorry I'm late to this thread didn't see your trial was today hope it went well bro I hate assholes like this.

I wish someone could throw all his stuff I. The trash and get by with it


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleluvdemboomers
loner with a boner
Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: DrRedBush]
    #21181571 - 01/26/15 06:03 PM (9 years, 4 days ago)

update?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledamnnation
Monsieur Rêve


Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 1,583
Loc: Paris Flag
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: luvdemboomers]
    #21185124 - 01/27/15 07:02 AM (9 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

luvdemboomers said:
update?




I'd love to hear the ruling OP.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Anonymous #1

Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: damnnation]
    #21192495 - 01/28/15 04:40 PM (9 years, 2 days ago)

still no word.  occasionally looking up the case on the state's website as well, guessing that i'll see the decision there before i get a letter in the mail.  no luck yet.  stay tuned.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Anonymous #1

Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #21235225 - 02/06/15 01:18 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

i got absolutely nothing.  i guess there was no way to prove the value of the items that were destroyed.  his counterclaim was thrown out also.

after all the fucking hoops i had to jump through... i have completely lost faith in how things are supposed to work.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,499
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #21235413 - 02/06/15 02:08 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

Did you sue him for the return of the security deposit?


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleluvdemboomers
loner with a boner
Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #21235761 - 02/06/15 03:38 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Anonymous said:
i got absolutely nothing.  i guess there was no way to prove the value of the items that were destroyed.  his counterclaim was thrown out also.

after all the fucking hoops i had to jump through... i have completely lost faith in how things are supposed to work.



on the bright side you cost him his time and possibly lawyer fees


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledamnnation
Monsieur Rêve


Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 1,583
Loc: Paris Flag
Re: Landlord changed locks and threw out stuff last day of month [Re: luvdemboomers]
    #21235869 - 02/06/15 03:58 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

Sorry to hear man, but at least maybe the landlord won't pull such stunts now... :shrug:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]

Shop: PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   North Spore Cultivation Supplies


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* landlord question otis5 1,538 7 11/13/03 07:46 AM
by otis5
* Locking folders? Paid 1,313 12 08/31/03 10:06 PM
by Xochitl
* Drug Law FAQ: A Guide to the Fourth Ammendment Lana 4,018 8 05/28/02 07:02 PM
by GabbaDj
* TEK: Halting apartment managers and other employees in their tracks...
( 1 2 all )
Smallworlds 1,634 20 10/23/05 10:14 PM
by _OttO_
* How to Purchase Securely 101
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Lana 44,765 64 05/22/13 01:31 AM
by 1ve5w4hu
* Personal/False Identities - Basic How To: Lana 3,391 3 08/08/01 08:13 AM
by Beatnik
* The importance of good driving skills Adden 1,835 12 10/26/03 01:28 AM
by zeta
* growing in an apartment FarmerD 1,286 10 12/19/04 08:37 AM
by GoaM

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, Alan Rockefeller
1,365 topic views. 0 members, 0 guests and 1 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.045 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 13 queries.