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Invisiblestuckinwonderland
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crude harmala extract
    #18784198 - 09/01/13 05:44 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

hello all I am wondering if to have a crude extract of harmalas I could put some Syrian rue in a pot with water and a splash of vinegar to pull alkaloids out then evaporate it to a easy to down gelcap? I have heard of this working with lemon juice but the only one with vinegar I saw seemed more complicated. I just want to do this as rue makes me so sick and is just not good for my system raw and all I need to do is get an easy extract like this please help


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Offlinecrkhd
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Re: crude harmala extract [Re: stuckinwonderland]
    #18784306 - 09/01/13 07:06 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah it works.

Be very careful to sit and watch the pot as the water gets to the resin point. It can go up in a flash as soon as the water evaporates completely so just be observant around that time, do not turn around or you lose a lot of alks which get charred to a toast!

This is perhaps the smoothest and best way I have felt in taking Rue, out of any method (tea, resin, FB extract). It goes really far when in this form as when extracted you miss out on a lot of plant goodies and who knows what the other compounds do in the tea, and also that it saves on the waiting many days to extract raw crystal, a hell of a lot of work.


The Rue resin is so amazing, it looks like sexy orangey yellow amber. Very sticky to the touch and it still smells funky so be careful handling it too.


Much less nausea this way compared to any other way IME.


--------------------


"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."

"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker

"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific


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Invisiblestuckinwonderland
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Re: crude harmala extract [Re: crkhd]
    #18784566 - 09/01/13 09:40 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

wow that is awesome I love aya and now I can get it down to a gelcap of harmala alkaloids and a shot of tea. how long and on what kind of heat should it be on the stove? I have heard 3x30min pulls but know nothing in terms of high low or medium heat


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Offlinecrkhd
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Re: crude harmala extract [Re: stuckinwonderland]
    #18785719 - 09/01/13 03:09 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Taper the heat right down. Full boil is fine until it gets to near the bottom. Then you want to simmer it gently off, taking care to disperse the water. Might be a good idea to transfer the ultra-thick fluid to a frying pan or something then let it evaporate *very gently* over a large surface area.


All good!


--------------------


"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."

"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker

"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific


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OfflineNature Boy
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Re: crude harmala extract [Re: stuckinwonderland]
    #18785890 - 09/01/13 03:55 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

CAN you?  Yes.  Would you WANT to?  I think not.

I strongly recommend you do at least ONE Manske to get rid of all the uterotoxic and nausea producing elements in Syrian Rue.  All you need that you don't already have is non-iodine containing salt, available for cheap in any decent grocery store.

N.B.


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Invisiblestuckinwonderland
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Re: crude harmala extract [Re: Nature Boy]
    #18787786 - 09/02/13 12:06 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

alright I may do this but not fully evap and just ave a super concentrated harmala liquid but will probably evap completely to gelcap it. and as for mansake I don't know a ton about it I read the process onece but will definatley look into it more thanks so much


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OfflineMaito
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Re: crude harmala extract [Re: stuckinwonderland]
    #18788231 - 09/02/13 03:52 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Definitely go the manske route. Just be patient and let the seed particles settle to the bottom of your solution over night before filtering.
I also like to redissolve and freebase my harmala hcl to get rid of salt contamination(and because it's fun watching things precipitate). All you need for that step is some sodium carbonate or lye.


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OfflineNature Boy
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Re: crude harmala extract [Re: Maito]
    #18788307 - 09/02/13 04:49 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Go with the sodium carbonate if you have a choice.  It's cheap and gives you better control over the Ph.  Lye can be used, but it takes only an exceedingly small amount and therefore you have less control.  You could always dissolve / dilute it, but stick w/ sodium carb if you can.

There is a very fine pictorial on the extraction of harmala alkaloids on the nexus wiki.  I highly recommend you refer to it if you have any questions.

N.B.


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All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies.  Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit.  Note well:  Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend.  If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.

                                                                               


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Offlinecrkhd
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Re: crude harmala extract [Re: Nature Boy] * 1
    #18788550 - 09/02/13 07:12 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Nature Boy said:
CAN you?  Yes.  Would you WANT to?  I think not.

I strongly recommend you do at least ONE Manske to get rid of all the uterotoxic and nausea producing elements in Syrian Rue.  All you need that you don't already have is non-iodine containing salt, available for cheap in any decent grocery store.

N.B.






Well we must be aware of the uterotoxic effects of those alkaloids but let's focus.

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=15165

Vasicine and its derivatives are found in Peganum Harmala (Syrian Rue) and Adhatoda Vasica (Zeylanica)/Justicia Adhatoda (Acanthaceae)

Review & Future Perspectives of Using Vasicine, and Related Compounds (Jan 2011)

This paper shows that vasicine and derivatives have the following properties:

* Antioxidant and anti-inflammatory activity
* Genoprotectivity (DNA protection)
* Hepatoprotective activity (liver protection)
* Antitussive and bronchodilatory activity
* Muscle stimulant activity (smooth muscle - uterus, trachea)
* Abortifacient activity (pregnant women beware!)
* Anti-diabetic activity
* Anticestodal activity (kills off intestinal parasites)
* Antileishmanial activity (protects against certain protozoa)
* Anti-helminthic activity (kills off parasitic worms)
* Anti-bacterial activity: anti-mycobacterial activity
* Anti-ulcer activity



Please do remember: words on these forums can heal, and kill. Words you miss out, they can keep people in tremendous suffering. Words you add, they can guide people to heights of ecstatic bliss! I speak as one of those guys.


(IMG courtesy XKCD)


--------------------


"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."

"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker

"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific


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OfflineNature Boy
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Re: crude harmala extract [Re: crkhd]
    #18788971 - 09/02/13 10:05 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Even if true, taken in the amounts that are necessary for MAO inhibition, a fair degree of :evilpuke: can be expected.  I have no doubt that if you search hard enough, you can find a benefit to small amounts of anything, including arsenic.

My point is though, when you are banging down amounts of Rue sufficient to give solid MAO inhibition, do yourself a favor and exclude, insofar as possible, all the crap that makes you sick so you can enjoy the REAL reason you used it, which was to activate a DMT-based experience.

You want the "benefits" you cite, eat the rue in far lower amounts on a daily basis.  Thanks, but me for my part, I think I'll pass on that.  I find eating rue seeds repulsive.  I don't see any advantage on your list that I can't replicate in a much more palatable manner through a normal diet.

N.B.


--------------------
All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies.  Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit.  Note well:  Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend.  If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.

                                                                               


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Offlinecrkhd
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Re: crude harmala extract [Re: Nature Boy]
    #18793145 - 09/03/13 04:46 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Different strokes for different folks really.

I love rue. I get the same psychedelia I get on DMT except on Rue it's user-generated. What you learn on Rue about the body-mind-spirit stays with you forever. It was on Rue that I first saw Qi manifest itself, first felt its effortless touch. As an entheogen it ranks highly with all the rest. But like iboga, few are prepared to put in the work. Rue is not really a recreational thing admittedly, even DMT admixtured Rue is more recreational than Rue on its own.




If you could present a list of dietary factors that create the same effects, I'd love to see it. What I love about Rue is that it is a singular anti-parasite anti-toxic detox in one. Whenever I feel life is crashing me out or my head is full of crap, a nice dose of Rue just floors me and reminds me of what is important in my life - appreciation, deep breathing and making sure I don't listen too much to the worms in my head. Speaking of which, we have a parasite epidemic. It's quite disturbing.

Other entheogens do not give a clean reset. Iboga is the king of clean resets but what I find is that other entheogens can add to the mental kerfuffle because they are active psychedelia generators, they reset you but you are not just re-set but also other things are set like intense ideas about life, the universe and everything. And sometimes we might lose hope in the validity of these intense and profound ideas but I find that Rue never lets me down in that regard. All my ideas and insights are strictly mine (not that they ever were not), Rue does not put ideas in my head or spin me stories.


Fully understood on the nausea but well I find that nausea is more to do with the way the tea interacts with digestive juices, or from the raw seed material. The resin behaves much more like the extract in that there is no real nausea-generating substance IME. You drop the capsules and forget about it all. The advantage is that the resin is a true full-spectrum extract. The pH of the extraction process can really vary the harmaline:harmine:tetrahydroharmine ratio which makes this resin method the gold standard if you want exactly what's in the tea with nothing lost.


You are pinning the nausea down to these alkaloids but I do not believe the alkaloids are the primary source of it; Rue-induced nausea is a very fickle thing. I find it is precipitated heavily by having acidic/citrus foods floating around in the stomach. Overall my point is that these alkaloids are pretty damn valuable, and their toxicity is widely superoverhyperbolexaggerated.


--------------------


"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."

"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker

"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific


Edited by crkhd (09/03/13 04:52 AM)


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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: crude harmala extract [Re: Nature Boy]
    #18793279 - 09/03/13 06:56 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Nature Boy said:
Even if true, taken in the amounts that are necessary for MAO inhibition, a fair degree of :evilpuke: can be expected.  I have no doubt that if you search hard enough, you can find a benefit to small amounts of anything, including arsenic.

My point is though, when you are banging down amounts of Rue sufficient to give solid MAO inhibition, do yourself a favor and exclude, insofar as possible, all the crap that makes you sick so you can enjoy the REAL reason you used it, which was to activate a DMT-based experience.

N.B.





I don't know NB! I've found the Mansake and 10x Harmaline extracts sufficient for MAO inhibition but the effect of the rue itself seemed to be nullified!

I agree, too much rue is awful but with a bit of tweaking and experimentation you can find your sweet spot eventually. I personally never go over 2 grams of whole rue which never gives me any problems.

Much of the sickness -if it comes at all- tends to come after the DMT is taken. If DMT isn't taken however the sickness wont show up! This seems to suggest that it's not so much the Syrian rue that is causing the nausea but something else, either a combination of the two chemicals together making one sick, or more likely the all together deeper/tougher experience invoking a psychological reaction and nausea in much the same way as when true Ayahuasca users purge.

This might not be so apparent with the mansake or Harmaline extracts simply because as much of the Syrian rue experience is lost, so too are the awful but wonderfully rewarding benefits of a grueling Ayahuasca (analogue) experience. In short I suppose we are really talking about an Ayahuasca Versus a DMT experience though I know many Aya purists take issue with the labeling of the rue concoction as Ayahuasca!

The reason I say all this is that I rather feel compelled to speak up on behalf of the Rue and DMT experience/combo, for it is for me personally without a shadow of doubt the most therapeutic experience I have ever had or ingested and far more than a mere DMT experience.

This is fully evident when the DMT itself wears off only to reveal the old Syrian rue still hard at all the heavy lifting and real work behind the scenes!

I write this mainly because I just don't want other people who haven't tried this combo dismissing the experience on account of one person not finding it to his own liking!


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

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Offlinecrkhd
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Re: crude harmala extract [Re: wolf8312]
    #18793572 - 09/03/13 09:34 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

On Rue you can sit down and synth your own DMT in your own Self as you please.


--------------------


"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."

"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker

"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific


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Offlines240779
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Re: crude harmala extract [Re: wolf8312]
    #18793873 - 09/03/13 10:53 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

wolf8312 said:
Much of the sickness -if it comes at all- tends to come after the DMT is taken. If DMT isn't taken however the sickness wont show up! This seems to suggest that it's not so much the Syrian rue that is causing the nausea but something else, either a combination of the two chemicals together making one sick, or more likely the all together deeper/tougher experience invoking a psychological reaction and nausea in much the same way as when true Ayahuasca users purge.





I got toxic effects and nausea from an aqueous infusion of straight rue (moderate dose).


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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: crude harmala extract [Re: s240779]
    #18797328 - 09/03/13 11:45 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Da2ra said:
Quote:

wolf8312 said:
Much of the sickness -if it comes at all- tends to come after the DMT is taken. If DMT isn't taken however the sickness wont show up! This seems to suggest that it's not so much the Syrian rue that is causing the nausea but something else, either a combination of the two chemicals together making one sick, or more likely the all together deeper/tougher experience invoking a psychological reaction and nausea in much the same way as when true Ayahuasca users purge.




I got toxic effects and nausea from an aqueous infusion of straight rue (moderate dose).








There are too some side effects for me even at two grams though again mainly after the DMT! Giving the rather brutal cruel to be kind nature of the Ana-huasca experience though, I can resign myself to feeling a bit iffy for the greater good of things! That's all pretty much included in the Ayahuasca contract anyhow right?

Like I said above it took me a while of tinkering with the dosage before I hit my sweet spot with rue! I've had my own experiences with the side effects as well! I once ate six grams without DMT for example which was pretty horrible. Despite trying I wasn't sick once, but I wouldn't exactly say it was or even felt toxic for me. HBWR is actually the most toxic seeming thing that I've ingested, compared to that SR is almost pleasant!

This is of course my subjective opinion based on my own experiences! I just wanted to give an alternative perspective to let others know that the SR/DMT experience shouldn't simply be dismissed as a collection of unwanted side effects, that there are others like myself who respect it on par with a heavy Ayahuasca experience.


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown



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Offlinej_db69
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Re: crude harmala extract [Re: wolf8312]
    #18800168 - 09/04/13 05:20 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

DO mind what you eat before and after taking it, most nausea seems to come from food items more than a dosage issue.  Even the ingestion of raw seeds vary from nausea level, enough so, that it appears to come from interaction from other food/medicine more than something in the seeds/vine.. has anyone else thought this?


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One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the dark conscious.
--Jung


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OfflineMaito
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Re: crude harmala extract [Re: j_db69]
    #18803295 - 09/05/13 01:03 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

j_db69 said:
DO mind what you eat before and after taking it, most nausea seems to come from food items more than a dosage issue.  Even the ingestion of raw seeds vary from nausea level, enough so, that it appears to come from interaction from other food/medicine more than something in the seeds/vine.. has anyone else thought this?



I agree and disagree. I've only taken rue seeds and rue tea handful of times, never exceeding 4g, and every time I took them  I experienced some nausea. I followed a strict diet of only fresh foods I grew myself in the days prior every time.


With freebase harmalas extracted from rue, the nausea is much more predictable. In doses at or below 250mg orally I only get the slightest nausea if I have crap food in my system. With strict adherence to my diet, I get no nausea at these doses. Now when the doses get into the 350-400mg+ range, I experience a full-on purge, no matter what. I don't know what straying from the diet would do to me at these doses and I don't intend to find out.


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OfflineNature Boy
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Re: crude harmala extract [Re: Maito]
    #18804492 - 09/05/13 06:30 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

:whathesaid:  That has been my exact experience as well.  Raw seeds = nausea no matter how long I fast or benign my food intake.  Properly extracted harmala alks = no problem whatsoever. YMMV.

N.B.


--------------------
All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies.  Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit.  Note well:  Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend.  If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.

                                                                               


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Re: crude harmala extract [Re: Nature Boy]
    #18804831 - 09/05/13 07:44 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Do you feel that the nausea from something in the seeds, makes you feel just as unpleasant as an interaction with the wrong food/medicine combo?

one more, have you found any ONE of the alkaloids "cleaner" in a sense of body load? (harmine, harmaline, etc)


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One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the dark conscious.
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Re: crude harmala extract [Re: j_db69]
    #18805377 - 09/05/13 09:52 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

It's hard to gauge the unpleasantness. I'll put it this way: I no longer take raw Syrian Rue and I no longer stray from my diet when ingesting harmalas. I have never separated my harmalas, so I can't say anything about your last question.


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Re: crude harmala extract [Re: crkhd]
    #24190027 - 03/24/17 08:05 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

crkhd said:
; Rue-induced nausea is a very fickle thing. I find it is precipitated heavily by having acidic/citrus foods floating around in the stomach.



But i've been taking oral DMT with acidic/citrus fruit juice to counter the alkalinity of DMT. You sure rue + acidic/citrus foods in stomach causes nausea?


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Invisibletwoisgoo
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Re: crude harmala extract [Re: ato]
    #24190134 - 03/24/17 08:34 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Interesting thread... If there's one thing I learned from it it's that the nausea from rue alkaloids can be fickle. Some get it regardless of eating the seed coat, others only experience nausea when seed coat is present. I believe the only way I've ever used rue is by taking capsules of the seed coats with L. It worked, for sure, but I yakked part-way into the experience. Later, I tried doing an acidic extraction but I messed up and didn't have any use for the rue after that... but this has sparked my interest again. I'm thinking some time in the future I'll make some of this nice sounding resin, and perhaps take some of it and freebase it to purify further.


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Offlineato
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Re: crude harmala extract [Re: crkhd]
    #24190162 - 03/24/17 08:43 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

crkhd said:
On Rue you can sit down and synth your own DMT in your own Self as you please.



How to do that please?


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* Harmala Blow raSman 1,894 4 09/03/04 06:10 PM
by deff

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