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Nature Boy
Stranger than most



Registered: 07/09/07
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Are we doing it all WRONG????
#18784192 - 09/01/13 05:40 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Please read the following abstract. Far more psilocin in mushrooms raised/harvested in the DARK!!!
http://www.dl.begellhouse.com/journals/708ae68d64b17c52,4554be083929b23c,1207e45939e457df.html
International Journal of Medicinal Mushrooms
DOI: 10.1615/IntJMedMushr.v11.i4.80 pages 419-426
Enhancement of Indole Alkaloids Produced by Psilocybe cubensis (Earle) Singer (Agaricomycetideae) in Controlled Harvesting Light Conditions Hasan Rafati Department of Phytochemistry, Medicinal Plants and Drugs Research Institute, Shahid Beheshti University, Evin, Tehran, Iran Hossein Riahi Bioscience Faculty, Shahid Beheshti University, Evin, Tehran, Iran Ali Mohammadi Department of Biology, Shahid Beheshti University, Evin, Tehran, Iran
ABSTRACT
Indole alkaloids of Psilocybe cubensis have been reported to be the potential candidates for drug discovery in central nervous system (CNS) disorders. In this research, the effect of the harvesting light on increasing the active alkaloids of P. cubensis was investigated. Three different lighting conditions, that is, dim daylight, indirect daylight, and darkness were used to harvest the mushrooms. A simple one-step extraction method involving the homogenization of the dried fruit bodies of fungi in chloroform was used. The psilocin content of the mushrooms was analyzed by derivatization with N-methyl-N-(trimethylsilyl) trifluoroacetamide (MSTFA), followed by the GC-MS technique. This investigation showed that the psilocin content of the mushrooms was highly dependent on the lighting conditions. Variations could amount to 100-fold increases in the samples harvested in the dark condition, compared to the samples harvested in the light conditions. Therefore, preventing natural light in the harvesting chamber could be considered to have a considerable effect on the content of the psychotropic component of P. cubensis and, hence, the psycho activity of the mushroom.
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Brand X
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Registered: 05/11/13
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Re: Are we doing it all WRONG???? [Re: Nature Boy]
#18784216 - 09/01/13 05:57 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Woah. Seriously interesting. 100x more potent?! There's got to be some explanation for this.
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GoldenEye
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Registered: 05/24/13
Posts: 4,340
Loc: Amsterdam
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Re: Are we doing it all WRONG???? [Re: Nature Boy]
#18784220 - 09/01/13 05:59 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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That's easy enough to test, I have just harvested a first flush of 'Albino' A+/Golden Teacher grown in daylight.
I'll place the second flush in the dark after the pinset has formed.
I'll keep the shrooms separated throughout the drying period and see if I can detect any differences.
Well worth a try.
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GoldenEye
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Registered: 05/24/13
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Re: Are we doing it all WRONG???? [Re: GoldenEye]
#18784225 - 09/01/13 06:00 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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One question I have is why they only tested psilocin content? Seems to me one would have to measure psilocybin content as well.
Edited by GoldenEye (09/01/13 06:01 AM)
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Tangich


Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 8,723
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Re: Are we doing it all WRONG???? [Re: GoldenEye]
#18784236 - 09/01/13 06:11 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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This article is many years old and was discussed here many times, and the conclusion was always that it was pure bullshit, and the entire trials were very badly done. I don't remember the exact details right now, but there are several lock threads about this.
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Nature Boy
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Re: Are we doing it all WRONG???? [Re: Tangich]
#18784424 - 09/01/13 08:34 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Really? If you stumble upon one or more of those old threads, I'd be interested to see if the paper referenced is the same. The only thing worse than no information is BAD information.
Looks like a peer-reviewed journal. Unfortunately, I only have access to the abstract, and I cannot vouch for the methodology utilized to collect the data presented...only the purported results, which, I don't mind telling you, DID shock me. I kinda figured this would be well understood (if true) by those here and would have been discovered at some time since publication in 2009.
N.B.
-------------------- All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit. Note well: Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend. If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.
Edited by Nature Boy (09/01/13 08:39 AM)
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krypto2000
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Re: Are we doing it all WRONG???? [Re: Nature Boy]
#18784455 - 09/01/13 08:55 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Unless I'm missing something it makes no mention of *growing* them in the dark at all, only *harvesting*. Since it even mentions daylight one would assume they were grown outdoors which means it's rather difficult to find pitch black darkness. It could be simply that the indoles are concentrated upwards towards the mushroom tissue during the night for one reason or another and either 'evaporated' out, metabolized into something else, or simply cycled back down to the mycilium/substrate in the daytime as well. There's a lot of variables we don't yet know for that matter that could be happening beyond that.
Growing indoors mushrooms don't even typically have this 'dark period' unless you shut off the lights, and having turned the lights off probably means you're going to bed so likely it's rare that people have actually tested this in practice, whether on purpose or unknowingly. It's not as if you cut the lights off and suddenly the alkaloid content jumps up. Who's woken up in the middle of the night and started harvesting mushrooms? I doubt too many of us, cleaning them and all that generally takes me upwards of an hour, even for a small flush, not something I'd wager many feel like doing in the middle of the night.
I too would be interested in seeing the other conclusions drawn from this paper as unless someones tested it or given reason to believe it's bs I'm at least willing to entertain the idea. We all know that after fruiting the substrate itself begins producing alkaloids and readily moves water and nutrients around towards the mushrooms, it seems reasonable it would do the same with the alkaloids and not *unreasonable* that there would be a peak time for harvest as such. Whether it has anything to do with light cycles I of course have no idea.
edit: Also fwiw I currently have a mono waiting to pin with 3 tiny holes in the bottom. This allows the metabolites to drain out. I didn't do this on purpose, I made the bin for another project and due to their size didn't realize I was using it when spawning this mono. This leads to the metabolites leaking out onto my table. So as I was saying fwiw I have noticed metabolite production increases overnight, in the daytime the table does not tend to get wet at all yet most mornings, this morning in particular for that matter, I'll wakeup and see a rather significant pool has formed. This could just be due to evaporation, but again, so could the loss of alkaloids in the daytime for our little friends here.
Edited by krypto2000 (09/01/13 09:00 AM)
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tbagtag
Boomer Barron

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 1,432
Loc: Amsterdam
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Re: Are we doing it all WRONG???? [Re: GoldenEye]
#18784464 - 09/01/13 09:00 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
GoldenEye said: One question I have is why they only tested psilocin content? Seems to me one would have to measure psilocybin content as well.

Psilocybin itself does nothing to the body. Once we start to process it psilocybin turns into psilocin.
Edited by tbagtag (09/01/13 09:00 AM)
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blojo02184
Big Red



Registered: 05/15/13
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Re: Are we doing it all WRONG???? [Re: tbagtag]
#18784503 - 09/01/13 09:12 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
tbagtag said:
Quote:
GoldenEye said: One question I have is why they only tested psilocin content? Seems to me one would have to measure psilocybin content as well.

Psilocybin itself does nothing to the body. Once we start to process it psilocybin turns into psilocin.
You just answered your statement. Psilocybin is processed into psilocin...
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krypto2000
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Re: Are we doing it all WRONG???? [Re: blojo02184]
#18784532 - 09/01/13 09:24 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I found another thread on it along with a link to the full paper. In short *maybe* there is something to it, but it's probably just a terribly designed study and the paper itself is rather short on details, yet does show a lack of mycology experience by the ones conducting the study.
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tbagtag
Boomer Barron

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 1,432
Loc: Amsterdam
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Re: Are we doing it all WRONG???? [Re: blojo02184]
#18784548 - 09/01/13 09:31 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
blojo02184 said:
Quote:
tbagtag said:
Quote:
GoldenEye said: One question I have is why they only tested psilocin content? Seems to me one would have to measure psilocybin content as well.

Psilocybin itself does nothing to the body. Once we start to process it psilocybin turns into psilocin.
You just answered your statement. Psilocybin is processed into psilocin...
You realize we were two different posters. I was advising why they wouldn't test the psilocybin itself. Good thing is I have everything except a centrifuge for their extraction.
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krypto2000
Unknown


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Re: Are we doing it all WRONG???? [Re: tbagtag]
#18784560 - 09/01/13 09:38 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think he knows that, but why would they not test both? For all we know the '100x potent' mushrooms are just full of psilocin and no psilocybin and vice versa for the 'weak' mushrooms, thus they're roughly the same potency even. It's like they did half of a test and drew a full conclusion from it.
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Tangich


Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 8,723
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Re: Are we doing it all WRONG???? [Re: krypto2000]
#18784578 - 09/01/13 09:43 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Here's another long thread from when this first came out.
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tbagtag
Boomer Barron

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 1,432
Loc: Amsterdam
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Re: Are we doing it all WRONG???? [Re: krypto2000]
#18784600 - 09/01/13 09:53 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
krypto2000 said: I think he knows that, but why would they not test both? For all we know the '100x potent' mushrooms are just full of psilocin and no psilocybin and vice versa for the 'weak' mushrooms, thus they're roughly the same potency even. It's like they did half of a test and drew a full conclusion from it.
Because psilocin itself oxidizes after cutting, now I might be wrong about this assumption why would you measure the psilocybin count when it's inert to the human body and has to be converted to psilocin anyway. The extraction method they used would lead me to believe that the psilcin itself would be non existing due to the heat used. Once it became liquid and the psilocybin converted to psilocin would make more sense.
I mean I guess they could have measured both before dying and extracting but I'm not a scientist.
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blojo02184
Big Red



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Re: Are we doing it all WRONG???? [Re: tbagtag]
#18784700 - 09/01/13 10:31 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Psilocybin turns into psilocin in the body.
Both are present in dried mushrooms.
Or am I wondering around in left field?
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Mr.PhilCybin
Master Baiter


Registered: 06/13/11
Posts: 11,642
Loc: Gnarnia
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Re: Are we doing it all WRONG???? [Re: blojo02184]
#18784746 - 09/01/13 10:45 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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this is interesting
-------------------- I'm stupid, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is smart. I'm ugly, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is beautiful. I'm a loser, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is a winner. Someday, I hope to be like Falcon91Wolvrn03 but secretly know I never will.
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tbagtag
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Registered: 01/16/13
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Loc: Amsterdam
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Re: Are we doing it all WRONG???? [Re: blojo02184]
#18784759 - 09/01/13 10:48 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I could be wrong, and will concede if I am, but I always thought that psylocin was not present or only in very small amounts after drying.
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
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Re: Are we doing it all WRONG???? [Re: Mr.PhilCybin]
#18784764 - 09/01/13 10:49 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Psilocybin is what is mostly left in dried fruits.
The dying process usually kills any psilocin left in the fruits.
For cubes that is anyways....
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
Edited by PussyFart (09/01/13 10:49 AM)
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tbagtag
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Registered: 01/16/13
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Loc: Amsterdam
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Re: Are we doing it all WRONG???? [Re: PussyFart]
#18784773 - 09/01/13 10:51 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Notahacker420 said: Psilocybin is what is mostly left in dried fruits.
The dying process usually kills any psilocin left in the fruits.
For cubes that is anyways....
Thanks NaH, the paper that we are discussing I believe they said was cubes.
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Nature Boy
Stranger than most



Registered: 07/09/07
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Re: Are we doing it all WRONG???? [Re: krypto2000]
#18785122 - 09/01/13 12:36 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
krypto2000 said: I found another thread on it along with a link to the full paper. In short *maybe* there is something to it, but it's probably just a terribly designed study and the paper itself is rather short on details, yet does show a lack of mycology experience by the ones conducting the study.
Thanks.
I think RR pretty much hit it out of the park with his criticisms. Pretty poorly done now that I see the full paper.
I would dismiss this paper as meaningless now that I've had a chance to review it.
Thanks for the link!
N.B.
-------------------- All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit. Note well: Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend. If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.
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GoldenEye
...


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Re: Are we doing it all WRONG???? [Re: krypto2000]
#18785166 - 09/01/13 12:52 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
krypto2000 said: I think he knows that, but why would they not test both? For all we know the '100x potent' mushrooms are just full of psilocin and no psilocybin and vice versa for the 'weak' mushrooms, thus they're roughly the same potency even. It's like they did half of a test and drew a full conclusion from it.
Exactly.
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