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OfflineYogi1
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: teknix]
    #18782841 - 08/31/13 08:18 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I think you should contemplate whether this has devolved into semantics.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: Icelander]
    #18782909 - 08/31/13 08:35 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I think that absolutely is our primary motive.  We act in ways that serve our belief systems.  If my belief is that it is right and good to serve others even if it costs me materially or otherwise then I will do it. I have chosen the greatest good for myself according to my beliefs.  If I do not believe that I won't as it goes against my highest desires about who I am, what is good or right or beautiful if you will. 




Do you see the contradiction? Your primary motive isn't to feel good, but to unravel the truth as best as you can . . .

So does everyone mean everyone except you?


Edited by teknix (08/31/13 08:45 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: teknix]
    #18782937 - 08/31/13 08:40 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

There is no contradiction.  My sense of honesty with myself is more important to me than whether I feel great about the truths I learn.  That's what I hold dearest and gives me the greatest satisfaction in my life.  If I didn't feel that way I'd willfully lie to myself if it would work. So I'm always working in my best interests as I see them.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: Icelander]
    #18782988 - 08/31/13 08:50 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Ok, so you're saying that your primary motive is to feel good, but it is actually to achieve a personal satisfaction ?

It doesn't seem like you are basing your life on what makes you feel good to me, that is called care ethics . . ., When feelings are put above rationale.

So which is more valuable to you, feelings or rationale?


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: teknix]
    #18783000 - 08/31/13 08:54 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

It's not unheard of for people to consider justice or feelings or culture or tradition or beliefs or rationale and logic, at the epitome of their being. (or what is most valuable to them, to say it is only their feelings doesn't fit into reality, imo)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: teknix]
    #18783009 - 08/31/13 08:55 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Feelings are. If being rational did not give me a feeling of satisfaction I'd dump it.  I really don't know how to feel good any other way. Or I would. Its' the feeling that counts for me at least.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: Icelander]
    #18783018 - 08/31/13 08:56 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

No you wouldn't, rationality makes you feel bad at times, just as your premise that everyone is self serving, yet you still use it and consider it above all else, regardless how it makes you feel. (I'm pretty sure that's what you said.)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: teknix]
    #18783031 - 08/31/13 09:00 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Wrong. While I might not be totally happy with what I find out rationally I am more unhappy believing a lie about it. A lot more unhappy.  Being rational makes me feel better than lying to myself.  It's the best way I know to make myself feel good.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: Icelander]
    #18783043 - 08/31/13 09:03 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

If You are unhappy because you know something to be untrue, then you aren't really believing in something you know to be untrue. Contradictions.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: teknix]
    #18783059 - 08/31/13 09:07 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

so? That does not change the point I'm making. Being rational no matter what I find out to be true makes me happier ignoring the truth.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: Icelander]
    #18783104 - 08/31/13 09:14 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

It contradicts the point your making. You value rationality above feeling.

Or if you can't accept that, then maybe you do value feeling above rationality and aren't being at all logical in this instance, and being right is more important to you than the other two.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: teknix]
    #18783114 - 08/31/13 09:16 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Rationality makes me feel something in the same way that doing something for someone else does.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: Icelander]
    #18783119 - 08/31/13 09:18 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Rationality makes me feel something in the same way that doing something for someone else does.




Huh?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: teknix]
    #18783120 - 08/31/13 09:19 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Think about it in the context of this discussion. Both actions bring pleasure or a good feeling.  If I give up my last meal to another I may not feel good about being hungry but I feel even better about helping someone else.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: Icelander]
    #18783169 - 08/31/13 09:30 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

No, it doesn't make sense, because there are two different values being placed at the epitome in each situation. "Feeling good" need not be the intent of an action to bring about feeling good.

You do what is satisfying and is self-serving in general, but I don't see how that necessarily equates to everyone else doing the same.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: teknix]
    #18783183 - 08/31/13 09:34 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Feeling good or right precedes the decision.  You already have chosen your values that you approve of before hand. Then you can act on them almost without further thought.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: Icelander]
    #18784403 - 09/01/13 08:19 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I think feeling good is the primary motive, and as wisdom grows selflessness and feeling good become more in sync as ones idea of self expands to include others.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #18784591 - 09/01/13 09:50 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Exactly imo:thumbup: although I don't think "selflessness" is the correct term.  It's my belief that if one really finds their greatest happiness it also benefits others.  This can take many shapes and forms and is different for every individual to some degree. This may not apply to sociopaths however.  Who knows?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (09/01/13 09:53 AM)


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Offlineviktor
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: Icelander]
    #18785116 - 09/01/13 12:34 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

What motivates psychopaths is still a mystery to me.

What does interest me, though, was recently learning that a lot of people are psychopaths in the sense that they do not feel fear or attachment to any meaningful degree but whom are not malicious. This means that they do not get a clinical diagnosis but are similar to psychopaths in many ways.

Like a surgeon who spends all days cutting living people open is often a psychopath by any measure besides criminal intent.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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OfflineYogi1
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: viktor]
    #18785124 - 09/01/13 12:36 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
What motivates psychopaths is still a mystery to me.

What does interest me, though, was recently learning that a lot of people are psychopaths in the sense that they do not feel fear or attachment to any meaningful degree but whom are not malicious. This means that they do not get a clinical diagnosis but are similar to psychopaths in many ways.

Like a surgeon who spends all days cutting living people open is often a psychopath by any measure besides criminal intent.




:thumbup: I never thought about those qualities. I have attachment issues and dont fear very much, am I on the verge of getting hacky?


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