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Offlineviktor
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: deCypher]
    #18779185 - 08/30/13 08:41 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

That's possible. It's also possible that there is a form of correctness that exists beyond the pleasure/pain principle.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: c0sm0nautt] * 1
    #18779466 - 08/30/13 10:05 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Points 5, 6 and 7 deal with emotions and IMHO, that's why some people don't agree that much but that's some good stuff for sure. I guess it all boils down to point 1: if you're not your mind, you can be whatever you want. Kant had this idea of the "structures of the mind" to explain how we conceptualize reality. That those structures gave meaning to the experience. It seems, the simple awareness of such idea can be a trigger to conceptualize our own ego. As we visualize this structures, we start to understand the very foundation of what we are. We can start questioning our cultural dogmas, managing our personal dilemmas and controlling our emotions. We understand what the word "belief" really means. In fact one of the biggest epiphanies I had, was that I needed to understand what things I can control and what things I can't control. What is acceptance and what is willingness. Knowing, which is which, gave me some insight about how can I influence reality.


I think, we go around in a experience that seems real to us and we agree on it. But some might say we're all hallucinating. All the senses create this place we call reality the way it is and we believe in it. Fact is, we also can control what we believe. On a global level, the power to recreate ourselves, and part of this reality, has been always at hand.


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Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
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Invisibleteknix
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #18780215 - 08/31/13 02:52 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I strongly disagree with #9.


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OfflineFryer Mike
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: teknix]
    #18780706 - 08/31/13 09:26 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

"7. All people operate from the same two motivations: to fulfill their desires and to escape their suffering."

I disagree with this on a few levels.

"No matter what kind of behavior other people exhibit, they are acting in the most effective way they are capable of (at that moment) to fulfill a desire or to relieve their suffering."

I think this is much too too simple of a generalization of all behavior. You're forgetting a situation in which a person is not acting for themselves, but for another. You're saying that every action a human performs is a selfish one, but I have to disagree. I think humans are fully capable of performing un-selfish acts. These un-selfish acts are sometimes performed to relieve suffering withing ones self, but are also acted out to relieve other people's suffering. This stems from the  phenomenon of sympathy, which is rare among mammals.

Also, people aren't always acting in the most effective way they are capable of acting. This is arguable, but your emotions and experience alter your ability to reach your full potential in any situation. So, by bypassing these limitations, one can reach a higher potential than if they hadn't bypassed them.

"almost all destructive behavior is unconscious."

This is straight up wrong. This may be true in your case, but I know a lot of people who are very aware of their destructive behavior. Also the term destructive behavior is so subjective that your generalization loses all credibility.

In addition, "good" and "evil" are also subjective, and shouldn't have even been mentioned. Some people are suffering because they aren't able to commit what I would perceive as an "evil" act. They might view it as a "good" act, depending on their motivation, but others would see it differently.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: Fryer Mike]
    #18780971 - 08/31/13 11:20 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, using the word all makes for  an absolute statement that is generally pretty easy to disprove. Many people operate to fulfill others desires. Then some might only worry about their needs.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: teknix]
    #18781176 - 08/31/13 12:20 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

My question would be why do we choose to fulfill the needs of others?  If I do something for others it's because I feel good about it or it feels right to me. Otherwise I wouldn't and I never heard of anyone that would.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: Icelander]
    #18781220 - 08/31/13 12:38 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

How do you correlate that to personal desire?

I think it is a by-product of good intent and motive, which makes us feel good. I don't think the intent is necessarily to feel good, but to help someone in need. If you feel good about it is besides the point, unless that was the motive in the first place.

Maybe you buy your girlfriend things because you think she will have sex with you later, that says your intent was to feel good, rather than to help someone out. I don't think that everyone thinks like that.

There is a lot of people who volunteer, not to feel good, but to do good. Because to do good is the right thing to do . . .

Maybe all of your actions are self-serving, but does that mean that everyone elses is as well?



Edited by teknix (08/31/13 12:46 PM)


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: teknix]
    #18781261 - 08/31/13 12:49 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I would like to question this:
Quote:


9. Objectivity is subjective.

Life is a subjective experience and that cannot be escaped. Every experience I have comes through my own, personal, unsharable viewpoint. There can be no peer reviews of my direct experience, no real corroboration. This has some major implications for how I live my life. The most immediate one is that I realize I must trust my own personal experience, because nobody else has this angle, and I only have this angle. Another is that I feel more wonder for the world around me, knowing that any β€œobjective” understanding I claim to have of the world is built entirely from scratch, by me. What I do build depends on the books I’ve read, the people I’ve met, and the experiences I’ve had. It means I will never see the world quite like anyone else, which means I will never live in quite the same world as anyone else β€” and therefore I mustn’t let outside observers be the authority on who I am or what life is really like for me. Subjectivity is primary experience β€” it is real life, and objectivity is something each of us builds on top of it in our minds, privately, in order to explain it all. This truth has world-shattering implications for the roles of religion and science in the lives of those who grasp it





Ok, if you are building an objective world by yourself, then it is subjective, but all your doing is imposing the meaning of subjective over the word objective, because the objective can be correlated by many more than yourself. Such as earths gravity, it doesn't matter how you look at it, you jump off something your going to fall if you don't have anything to hold you up . . . objectively . . . Regardless of what you think is going to happen or what you think about gravity.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: teknix]
    #18781653 - 08/31/13 03:09 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I think it is a by-product of good intent and motive, which makes us feel good. I don't think the intent is necessarily to feel good, but to help someone in need. If you feel good about it is besides the point, unless that was the motive in the first place.

I think that absolutely is our primary motive.  We act in ways that serve our belief systems.  If my belief is that it is right and good to serve others even if it costs me materially or otherwise then I will do it. I have chosen the greatest good for myself according to my beliefs.  If I do not believe that I won't as it goes against my highest desires about who I am, what is good or right or beautiful if you will. 


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: Icelander]
    #18781665 - 08/31/13 03:15 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I think it is a by-product of good intent and motive, which makes us feel good. I don't think the intent is necessarily to feel good, but to help someone in need. If you feel good about it is besides the point, unless that was the motive in the first place.

I think that absolutely is our primary motive.  We act in ways that serve our belief systems.  If my belief is that it is right and good to serve others even if it costs me materially or otherwise then I will do it. I have chosen the greatest good for myself according to my beliefs.  If I do not believe that I won't as it goes against my highest desires about who I am, what is good or right or beautiful if you will. 




:thumbup:


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: deCypher]
    #18781695 - 08/31/13 03:25 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Agree with most of them

We are not our thoughts, not our bodies etc. (but the one observing our thoughts, deciding if we want to associate with them)

The same inside that we've always been, only outside changes

acceptance is better than anger,hate,worrying,frustration,fear,judging etc.

we're all the same, the soul is equally great in every living creature
we're not unique

live in the moment without worries, accept and appreciate

live by what makes you happy and others happy, that's the true self

I haven't really changed, still the same, but not the same as what I thought I were for many years anymore :-)

peace


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: lessismore]
    #18781741 - 08/31/13 03:39 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Also there is no reality

Nothing is real, everything is perceived

Your world is very different from everybody else's world, like OP says
each world is subjective

Turn off thoughts to see everything closer to what it is, observe

Nothing seems to exist, but soul seems to exist, even if it is the same soul
You are everything

We're not unique, but very similar

Being human is to be controlled by own thoughts/desires/emotions, we need to break free from that

Be grateful, accept everything as is, appreciate everything and yourself
Accept and forgive instead of hate, for hate is pointless
Never worry , observe thoughts, accept them as they come, let them pass
Bring happiness to others, a helping hand is never forgotten (giving is better than receiving)

No doubt, no worries, no frustration, no fear  , only acceptance and appreciation

"My heart is my soul, the brain is my servant" , do what you love at all times


Edited by lessismore (08/31/13 04:06 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: lessismore]
    #18781758 - 08/31/13 03:43 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Also there is no reality

You can't know that. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: Icelander]
    #18782437 - 08/31/13 06:50 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I think it is a by-product of good intent and motive, which makes us feel good. I don't think the intent is necessarily to feel good, but to help someone in need. If you feel good about it is besides the point, unless that was the motive in the first place.

I think that absolutely is our primary motive.  We act in ways that serve our belief systems.  If my belief is that it is right and good to serve others even if it costs me materially or otherwise then I will do it. I have chosen the greatest good for myself according to my beliefs.  If I do not believe that I won't as it goes against my highest desires about who I am, what is good or right or beautiful if you will. 




You can't know that, unless you think you know everyones motive and intent, so where do you get off making such a conclusion? Do you think  You are omniscient or a mind reader, or just a quack, or what? Teh all mighty icelander, comes to tell use what we think and give us our motive and intent! All hail teh superior being!


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: teknix]
    #18782450 - 08/31/13 06:53 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Experience, observation and study for a 60 year lifetime.

You seem to take my responses to you quite personally.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: Icelander]
    #18782452 - 08/31/13 06:54 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Oh, so after 60 years you get to think you can read minds huh . . .

:eek:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: teknix]
    #18782459 - 08/31/13 06:55 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I said I think.  You need to read better.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (08/31/13 06:55 PM)


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: Icelander]
    #18782464 - 08/31/13 06:57 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Then why are you arguing against the premise that all is most likely incorrect?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: teknix]
    #18782468 - 08/31/13 06:57 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Because it's what I believe of course.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: 9 Mind-Bending Epiphanies That Turned My World Upside-Down [Re: Icelander]
    #18782476 - 08/31/13 06:59 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Experience, observation and study for a 60 year lifetime.

You seem to take my responses to you quite personally.




Nah, I just generally disagree with most everything you say on principle.


Edited by teknix (08/31/13 07:47 PM)


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