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Offlinefractaldill
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Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir.
    #18781950 - 08/31/13 04:33 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

So i foolishly let trich grow in my grow area a while back, and lately its really starting to affect my grows. It seems that everything goes great until i get to spawning and things contaminate from there.

How can I avoid contaminating my grows in the future? Spawn in a seperate room such as the garage? maybe outside? how aerodynamic are these contaminating spores?

I was thinking that i could turn off airflow in my room, lay down some painters plastic, and go over all surfaces with iso alcohol.

Really i just want some tips and recommendations as to avoid contaminations cause im tired of feeling like i got beginners luck and would like some consistent success.


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: fractaldill]
    #18781955 - 08/31/13 04:34 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Are you using the bucket tek or proper pasteurization?


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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: PussyFart]
    #18782005 - 08/31/13 04:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

i wouldnt doubt  it.

i used the bucket tek and got trich


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InvisibleTranscendingLife
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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: nepter627]
    #18782045 - 08/31/13 04:58 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I use the bucket tek 99% of the time without a contam.
The only one I've gotten was due to improperly mixing the spawn with the substrate, which caused it to take way too long to colonize.

As far as cleaning the room I would:
Take everything out & clean it well. While that's all drying,
Vacuum the room well, then Oust it immediately after.
Wipe down all the walls & surfaces with bleach+water solution then a vinegar solution.
Oust the room again & then put everything back in the room that is needed.
Be sure to have the AC or heat off during the entire process.

There's mold spores all over your house, clothing, outside, etc.
The reason most don't get contams is because of proper sterile procedures prior to doing mycology work.

I'm extremely paranoid concerning contams and sterile procedures.
Here's what I do for spawning to bulk:

Spawning to Bulk:

1.Break up Your Spawn Jars by Banging them on a Stack of Phone Books or a Bike tire like RR uses.
2.Sterile Procedure:
    a.Turn off Heat/AC, Shut all windows & turn off all Fans.
    b.Oust Room
    c.Shower, wash hands, glove hands & wear a surgical mask.
    d.Oust once more
    e.Clean the inside of the tubs (make sure it dries before proceeding)
    i.I normally Unscrew the lids on my Spawn jars @ this time.

Here's what I do for everything else:

1. Turn off the Air/Heat in your Place.
2. Enter Clean room & break up spawn jar on a stack of phonebooks or bike tire.
3. Oust Entire Room Well.
4. Take a shower, brush teeth & use mouthwash.
5. Put on freshly laundered clothing, glove hands & put on surgical mask.
6. Enter Clean Room with the Receiving Jars
  - Get everything organized
7. Oust Room Well, again.
  - While that settles I spray down my paper towels with isopropyl alcohol
8. Open SAB & clean it. Be sure to wipe down the lid last.
  - You can use a bucket of warm water with dishsoap, bleach water mixture or isopropyl alcohol.
  - Personally, I use my bleach water.
  - Once I get the interior of my SAB wet, I line the bottom w/ paper towels & spray them down with my bleach water mixture.
  - You want to be sure to have the bottom of your SAB wet that way if a contam falls it'll be stuck to the bottom of the SAB.
9. Wipe Down the Interior of your SAB then your Lid to your SAB.
10. Now I place my lid on my SAB leaving about 1/2 of the SAB open.
11. Wipe down your Receiving jars w/ your iso soaked paper towels extremely well.


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Offlinetripdawg420
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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #18782201 - 08/31/13 05:44 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

i use bucket tek too may be you could break your jars up and let them recolonize are you making your own syringes may be your spawn jars :shrug:


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: tripdawg420]
    #18782299 - 08/31/13 06:11 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

It could be your spawn is contaminated. This always gets overlooked because people assume a healthy looking spawn jar isn't contaminated. But if your contamination rate suddenly jumps to 100%, all Trich, especially within 10 days of spawning that's probably it. In which case it could be related to changes in your sterile procedure, using g2gs, untested LCs, etc. And not that you has a single contaminated substrate and now everything is doomed from the spores it released.


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Offlinefractaldill
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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: PussyFart]
    #18782477 - 08/31/13 06:59 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I'm following damions coir tek.


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Offlineheadofmike
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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: Kizzle]
    #18782491 - 08/31/13 07:02 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Are you using lc? or g2g, or multispore, or what? It can be frustrating stomping out trich. I have been growing for 6 years. It still happens to me. I never know why. But like the others said, backtrack. Are your pasteurization methods secure? Many people gripe about the bucket tek. I fill a pillow case with poo. then boil water and put it all inside of a cooler. This works well for me.
  Transending life seems a bit paranoid when spawning, but this is a very good practice. I would recommend you clean everything as he has stated. Get new cultures, prepare grains more securely, and just tighten up the ship. Trich happens to everyone, everyyyyoneeee!!!!
    Also when I was struggling with a trich outbreak really bad like you. I had to go back to basics. I went from doing 5, 55 gallon monos at a time. To a small Martha setups with small isolated trays. This helped me a lot. This will help you crack down, and find out if it's the spawn, or the spawing technique.
  I feel for ya man, hope you get some good responses.


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Offlinefractaldill
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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: headofmike]
    #18782525 - 08/31/13 07:12 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

What are some alternate methods to pasteurizing coir?


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InvisibleTranscendingLife
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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: fractaldill]
    #18782702 - 08/31/13 07:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)



--------------------
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"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
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OfflineKizzle
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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #18783340 - 08/31/13 10:23 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Unless you used a product with mold spores added I doubt it's a pasteurization issue. Coir is naturally sterile (until harvested) if I'm not mistaken and extremely resistant to spore germination. It should have no mold and very few mold spores on it to begin with. I've had moist coir sitting around for months without ever seeing mold develop on it. Which of course is why I mentioned the the spawn. Even though coir is inhospitable for new fungi to develop on, existing fungal colonies whether mold or mushroom are able to use it as a food source.


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Offlinefractaldill
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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #18785004 - 09/01/13 11:53 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

looks like im going to try both methods of pasteurization and see what happens.


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Offlinefractaldill
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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: fractaldill]
    #18785033 - 09/01/13 12:04 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

just a little update. i just checked on a bucket of coir i have had sitting out with the lid. its been there for about 5 or 6 days. i noticed a fungal culture growing in it. Went to scoop it out and turns out a colonized rye seed fell in there. So the claims that coir is contam resistant to spore germination seem to be true so far.


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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: fractaldill]
    #18785040 - 09/01/13 12:06 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I've got a bucket of hydrated coir in my clean room that's been there for over 4 months.
Haven't had any problems.


--------------------
AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
:sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop::wow:How I Do EVERYTHING:wow::sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop:
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth


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Offlinefractaldill
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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #18785111 - 09/01/13 12:32 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

So, The best bet is that its my spawn? This time I will let it consolidate because i think i have been a little too hasty lately. does consolidation have any effect though? If there is another fungal culture lurking in there will it really matter? I get my spores from thesporedepot.


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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: fractaldill]
    #18785118 - 09/01/13 12:34 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I recommend getting spores from sponsors.
Consolidation won't help fighting against contams.
Most likely the spawn is the problem.


--------------------
AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
:sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop::wow:How I Do EVERYTHING:wow::sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop:
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth


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Offlinefractaldill
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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #18785150 - 09/01/13 12:45 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

But i do get my spores from a sponsor. Tell me if you can see any flaws with my Spawn jar lids, please.



Edited by fractaldill (09/01/13 12:58 PM)


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InvisibleTranscendingLife
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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: fractaldill]
    #18785179 - 09/01/13 12:55 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Oops. Didn't see them in the list when I glanced at it.
Don't mention sponsor names with growing. The spores are for microscopy use only.
Lids look fine.
The only thing I do differently is keep the lids right side up or rubber side down against the glass.


--------------------
AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
:sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop::wow:How I Do EVERYTHING:wow::sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop:
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth


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Offlinefractaldill
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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #18785196 - 09/01/13 12:59 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

cool. i took a look at your gallery. really impressive man.and clean :frown: lol


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InvisibleTranscendingLife
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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: fractaldill]
    #18785222 - 09/01/13 01:06 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Gotta keep it all clean & tidy.


--------------------
AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
:sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop::wow:How I Do EVERYTHING:wow::sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop:
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth


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Offlinefractaldill
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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #18790756 - 09/02/13 04:43 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

One more thing if you don't mind. So how many quart jars to pasteurize a brick of coir and 2 quarts of verm, and the 5 quarts of water? It seems like i t would take a lot... I heard of the pillow case method... Would that be more efficient?

And how can I go about pasteurizing with a 23 at pressure cooker? What temps am I looking for and how long? I heard around 150. I was under the impression that boiling water is what was used to pasteurize, but boiling is 212 right?

Would I manage to fit all the sub into 7 jars (7 is the max it can hold) and pasteurize in my PC vessel? Or would I be better of hydrating all my substrate, putting it in a pillow case, then put that in the pressure cooker with water at about 150 degrees? Not used to dealing with so much substrate outside of a bucket.

Thanks


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: fractaldill]
    #18790849 - 09/02/13 05:08 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

You can things other than quart jars. I wouldn't use a pillowcase though just because IMO it's easier to raise the moisture content to the right amount than dry it to the right amount, which is what you'd have to do if you used a pillowcase since your substrate will get completely drenched in the process.


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Offlinefractaldill
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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: Kizzle]
    #18790962 - 09/02/13 05:30 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

So how would you go about it?


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: fractaldill]
    #18791187 - 09/02/13 06:09 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Oven bag or if you have any empty spawn bags you could use one of those.


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Offlinefractaldill
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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: Kizzle]
    #18791489 - 09/02/13 07:09 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

alright. so put it all in an oven bag or two and put in pasteurization bath at 150~ for an hour and a half?


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Offlinefractaldill
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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: Kizzle]
    #18791493 - 09/02/13 07:10 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

wait you wouldnt put it in the oven would you?


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: fractaldill]
    #18791537 - 09/02/13 07:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

No, just in some water in a pot on the stove. You'll need a cooking thermometer. Heat it until the center of the substrate reaches 150-160F and then try to keep it in that range for a full hour. In particular you don't want it to get above 170F.


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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: fractaldill]
    #18791553 - 09/02/13 07:23 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

fractaldill said:
But i do get my spores from a sponsor. Tell me if you can see any flaws with my Spawn jar lids, please.






Possibly because you have the lid upside down.


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Offlinefractaldill
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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: snakeinthegrass]
    #18791615 - 09/02/13 07:36 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I cant really see this being an issue... what are your reasons for thinking this? genuine curiosity.


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: snakeinthegrass]
    #18791624 - 09/02/13 07:38 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

It's the right way. Filter should be on the outside. Which side of the lid has the filter on it isn't really critical. It's easier to remove with the rubber side up so a lot of do it like that.


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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: fractaldill]
    #18791633 - 09/02/13 07:39 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

the orientation of the lid doesnt matter.  With PF tek its best to put them upside down to get them off.  With grain it don't matter if your a top or a bottom.


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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: fractaldill]
    #18791640 - 09/02/13 07:40 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I would think that using the rubber side against the glass, you will get a seal that contams can't get by.


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: snakeinthegrass]
    #18791697 - 09/02/13 07:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

It'll make a seal either way. IMO the only time it would really matter is if your doing open lid inoculations, especially g2gs, where you might be working around jar with the rings off but even then it's still a matter of preference between a sturdier lid a lid that's easy to remove.


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Offlineheadofmike
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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: Kizzle]
    #18791964 - 09/02/13 08:50 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Kizzle said:
You can things other than quart jars. I wouldn't use a pillowcase though just because IMO it's easier to raise the moisture content to the right amount than dry it to the right amount, which is what you'd have to do if you used a pillowcase since your substrate will get completely drenched in the process.




I wouldnt say its a real task. I hang the pillow case for three hours, then its usually at a perfect water level (or very close). That being said im gonna try other methods myself. But it is a very efficient way to pastuerize BULK sub.


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Offlinefractaldill
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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: Kizzle]
    #18792218 - 09/02/13 09:37 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

back onto the oven bag, Do they get as big enough to fit all my sub,verm, and water all in one bag?


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Offlinevec

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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: fractaldill]
    #18792280 - 09/02/13 09:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Do some research on "Bucket Tek."


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Offlinefractaldill
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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: vec]
    #18792302 - 09/02/13 09:53 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

thats what im trying to get away from...


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Offlinevec

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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: fractaldill]
    #18792314 - 09/02/13 09:56 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Why is that if you don't mind me askin?


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Offlinefractaldill
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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: vec]
    #18792345 - 09/02/13 10:02 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Im not having too much success with it... but then again im having way too many variables.
people are saying thats its very contam resistant to germinating spores, and this seems very accurate in the aspect that i had a bucket that seemed to be holding up very well just sitting there (5 days or so old). checked on it today and saw trich growing on the spoon i was using to scoop up the sub... not the coir (yet). which leads me to believe the spoon was the culprit all along... got 12 jars colonizing so im thinking of doing half them bucket tek, and just dumping all the sub in without a spoon to help. the other half ill pasteurize some other way.


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Offlinevec

Registered: 02/26/13
Posts: 69
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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: fractaldill]
    #18792381 - 09/02/13 10:09 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Work with your hands then-> latex gloves, tyvek sleeves, lots of bleach,fresh clothes and isopropyl. Bleach out bucket and tub, make sure no air currents in the working area. You know...


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: vec]
    #18792822 - 09/03/13 12:25 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

vec said:
Work with your hands then-> latex gloves, tyvek sleeves, lots of bleach,fresh clothes and isopropyl. Bleach out bucket and tub, make sure no air currents in the working area. You know...



This has nothing to do with the failure rate that comes with doing the bucket tek.

Proper pasteurization is better, hands down.


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Offlinevec

Registered: 02/26/13
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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: PussyFart]
    #18792842 - 09/03/13 12:34 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

sterile procedures have nothing to do with the bucket tek? lol.ok.


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: vec]
    #18792850 - 09/03/13 12:36 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Not really, when you consider it is being done in open air.

Take all the sterile precautions you want, there will still be millions of contams in the substrate.

This is a given when dealing with open air.

When you properly pasteurize the substrate, you are making sure that all of the substrate is heated evenly and thoroughly.

You cannot do this by pouring boiling water into a bucket and sealing it up.

Plain and simple, proper pasteurization trumps the bucket tek.


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Offlinevec

Registered: 02/26/13
Posts: 69
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: Avoiding contamination during spawning to coir. [Re: PussyFart]
    #18792869 - 09/03/13 12:42 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

you got a point, it is obviously not superior to proper pasteurization, but RR does the straw this way and it works!bucket or a tub, straw or coir. same principle, no?


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