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BittrBuffalo
Deaconica

Registered: 05/19/13
Posts: 1,729
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Most common reason for contam?
#18781470 - 08/31/13 02:03 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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There are SOO many variables that can go wrong and cause contam in your work, but what's the most common source? Insufficient substrate sterilization? Contamination during inoculation? Preparing the inoculant?
I just started 18 BRF jars and 4 of them ended up with blue-green mold contam. The jars were homemade, but not all were sterilized in the same pot. I think this is the source of the contam, but I'd like to know the most likely culprit.
-------------------- Disclaimer: This post is a work of fiction, provided for entertainment purposes only. Any resemblance to actual persons or events, past or present, is strictly coincidental. All celebrity voices are impersonated. If you begin your ID request with, "I just ate a bunch of these mushrooms…should I not have done that?" I'm just gonna sit back and watch Darwin at work.
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Guest F
Stranger

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Re: Most common reason for contam? [Re: BittrBuffalo] 1
#18781478 - 08/31/13 02:07 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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You either improperly sterilized(not long enough) or poor inoculation procedures. Always flame sterilize and never wipe off the needle after flaming.
-------------------- All cultivation posts are what I believe to be accurate. If I give ANY misinformation, please do not hesitate to correct me.
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TranscendingLife
I Don't Need a Life to Live



Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 21,627
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Re: Most common reason for contam? [Re: Guest F] 1
#18782069 - 08/31/13 05:05 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Improper sterile procedure is the most common reason for getting a contaminant. If you inoculated all the jars with same syringe and 4 of them contam while the others didn't, I'd suspect improper flaming of the needle between jars or a bad syringe. Remember, no print or MS syringe is 100% sterile, because the mushrooms are fruited in open air.
-------------------- AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here "One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife “A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
      How I Do EVERYTHING      "Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung "Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs "You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
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IME contaminated spores. When I started using agar my contamination rate dropped to 0% for most batches overnight.
I should also mention I noticed a sigfnificant improvement before that switching to dry spore inoculations instead syringes. With syringes I was losing entire batches sometimes.
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Edited by Kizzle (08/31/13 06:30 PM)
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annoyed
Stranger

Registered: 04/12/20
Posts: 33
Last seen: 5 months, 7 days
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Re: Most common reason for contam? [Re: BittrBuffalo]
#27260569 - 03/19/21 02:25 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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I've seen someone colonize about fifty jars with just a single contamination.
None of the jars were pressure cooked.
The jars were wide-mouth with four holes in the lid for air exchange and injection.
No cotton plugged them, no micro pore tape. Instead, aluminum foil was placed on the jars.
The jars were cleaned before injection by steaming them in a normal stockpot for three hours.
One jar was steamed for just thirty minutes and did not contaminate with a substrate of flour with extra chaff mixed in. (2:1:1 chaff, flour, water, in that order.)
Aside from that one jar, normal PF Tek was used.
All worked fine with no pressure canner, auto clave, etc.
Thus I conclude the most common cause of contamination is a dysgenic couple of spores taking too long to colonize.
I advise everyone to ignore all the rules set up by these amateur growers larping like actual scientists.
They muddy the water to make it seem deep. -Friedrich Nietzsche
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Professor X
School for the Gifted



Registered: 04/18/19
Posts: 2,719
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: Most common reason for contam? [Re: annoyed]
#27260594 - 03/19/21 02:36 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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I pressure cooked 21 jars of BRF at 12 PSI for 60 minutes and inoculated them all with spore syringes in front of a flowhood. 3 grew mycelium but never fruited because they were so bacteria laden, 18 grew mold in various amounts of time. This is with standard PF Tek lids with 3x MP tape. So yeah, disregard whatever you feel and come tell us why you think the spores ooked you in the dooker.
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annoyed
Stranger

Registered: 04/12/20
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Last seen: 5 months, 7 days
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Re: Most common reason for contam? [Re: Professor X]
#27260608 - 03/19/21 02:44 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Professor X said: I pressure cooked 21 jars of BRF at 12 PSI for 60 minutes and inoculated them all with spore syringes in front of a flowhood. 3 grew mycelium but never fruited because they were so bacteria laden, 18 grew mold in various amounts of time. This is with standard PF Tek lids with 3x MP tape. So yeah, disregard whatever you feel and come tell us why you think the spores ooked you in the dooker.
You elucidate how you failed using standard amateur procedures, and have concluded I have been ooked with no failures.
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Tight Lunchbox
Drunk cat


Registered: 11/06/16
Posts: 2,116
Last seen: 4 months, 8 days
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Re: Most common reason for contam? [Re: annoyed] 2
#27260614 - 03/19/21 02:48 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
annoyed said: I've seen someone colonize about fifty jars with just a single contamination.
None of the jars were pressure cooked.
The jars were wide-mouth with four holes in the lid for air exchange and injection.
No cotton plugged them, no micro pore tape. Instead, aluminum foil was placed on the jars.
The jars were cleaned before injection by steaming them in a normal stockpot for three hours.
One jar was steamed for just thirty minutes and did not contaminate with a substrate of flour with extra chaff mixed in. (2:1:1 chaff, flour, water, in that order.)
Aside from that one jar, normal PF Tek was used.
All worked fine with no pressure canner, auto clave, etc.
Thus I conclude the most common cause of contamination is a dysgenic couple of spores taking too long to colonize.
I advise everyone to ignore all the rules set up by these amateur growers larping like actual scientists.
They muddy the water to make it seem deep. -Friedrich Nietzsche
You bumped a 7.5 year old thread in order to give people really bad advice. Congratulations.
-------------------- "it's all a joke between mom contractions and coffin fittings" The most useful tool for noobs
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annoyed
Stranger

Registered: 04/12/20
Posts: 33
Last seen: 5 months, 7 days
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Quote:
Tight Lunchbox said:
Quote:
annoyed said: I've seen someone colonize about fifty jars with just a single contamination.
None of the jars were pressure cooked.
The jars were wide-mouth with four holes in the lid for air exchange and injection.
No cotton plugged them, no micro pore tape. Instead, aluminum foil was placed on the jars.
The jars were cleaned before injection by steaming them in a normal stockpot for three hours.
One jar was steamed for just thirty minutes and did not contaminate with a substrate of flour with extra chaff mixed in. (2:1:1 chaff, flour, water, in that order.)
Aside from that one jar, normal PF Tek was used.
All worked fine with no pressure canner, auto clave, etc.
Thus I conclude the most common cause of contamination is a dysgenic couple of spores taking too long to colonize.
I advise everyone to ignore all the rules set up by these amateur growers larping like actual scientists.
They muddy the water to make it seem deep. -Friedrich Nietzsche
You bumped a 7.5 year old thread in order to give people really bad advice. Congratulations.
I gave childish advice backed with experience. Boomer.
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Tight Lunchbox
Drunk cat


Registered: 11/06/16
Posts: 2,116
Last seen: 4 months, 8 days
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Re: Most common reason for contam? [Re: annoyed]
#27260641 - 03/19/21 03:07 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Your experience that brf jars can be steam sterilized? That isn't some sort of revelation. People do it all the time. It's the pf tek.
-------------------- "it's all a joke between mom contractions and coffin fittings" The most useful tool for noobs
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annoyed
Stranger

Registered: 04/12/20
Posts: 33
Last seen: 5 months, 7 days
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Quote:
Tight Lunchbox said: Your experience that brf jars can be steam sterilized? That isn't some sort of revelation. People do it all the time. It's the pf tek.
You've exposed yourself as either dumb or egotistical by saying I didn't use 50 PF Tek jars, with one jar of regular flour and chaff that was steamed as well with no contamination.
What you're experiencing is true childishness, like I've attacked your dogma taught by your very own mother.
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Tight Lunchbox
Drunk cat


Registered: 11/06/16
Posts: 2,116
Last seen: 4 months, 8 days
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Re: Most common reason for contam? [Re: annoyed]
#27260669 - 03/19/21 03:26 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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I never said you didn't use 50 pf tek jars...
-------------------- "it's all a joke between mom contractions and coffin fittings" The most useful tool for noobs
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annoyed
Stranger

Registered: 04/12/20
Posts: 33
Last seen: 5 months, 7 days
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Quote:
Tight Lunchbox said: I never said you didn't use 50 pf tek jars...
You aren't making a clear point for why people can't be satisfied with PF Tek, and I've yet to see regular flour or other substrates fail with just steaming. '
Go to church if you need to be part of a religious community.
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Tight Lunchbox
Drunk cat


Registered: 11/06/16
Posts: 2,116
Last seen: 4 months, 8 days
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Re: Most common reason for contam? [Re: annoyed]
#27261465 - 03/20/21 07:26 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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I was never satisfied with pf tek because I like growing a shit ton of mushrooms. That's why I use grains. Grow however you want to grow. Be sure to keep us informed with your results.
The general consensus on the best practices for growing isn't gospel and it has certainly changed over time. The advice of TC's and others with experience is pretty solid because they've proven what does and doesn't work. To come in here and bump a 7.5 year old thread and say that legit growers in this community are "amateur growers larping like actual scientists" is an obvious attempt at trolling, so I'm clearly wasting my time by typing all of this out. Good luck man.
-------------------- "it's all a joke between mom contractions and coffin fittings" The most useful tool for noobs
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annoyed
Stranger

Registered: 04/12/20
Posts: 33
Last seen: 5 months, 7 days
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Quote:
Tight Lunchbox said: I was never satisfied with pf tek because I like growing a shit ton of mushrooms. That's why I use grains. Grow however you want to grow. Be sure to keep us informed with your results.
The general consensus on the best practices for growing isn't gospel and it has certainly changed over time. The advice of TC's and others with experience is pretty solid because they've proven what does and doesn't work. To come in here and bump a 7.5 year old thread and say that legit growers in this community are "amateur growers larping like actual scientists" is an obvious attempt at trolling, so I'm clearly wasting my time by typing all of this out. Good luck man.
All communities are toxic to me with their zealotry that's disguised as legitimate experience when it's all just egotistical ways to find meaning in their boring lives. what I said was for the few who have doubts about what is commonly advised as necessary, using "logic" but from a starting point of untruths. The result is a system of lies, illogical lies, unpractical wastes of time and effort. The few who want to hear doubt, I have provided them with it.
And as is common practice on all forums, old posts get revived if a new thought wants to be added.
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annoyed
Stranger

Registered: 04/12/20
Posts: 33
Last seen: 5 months, 7 days
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Re: Most common reason for contam? [Re: annoyed]
#27261575 - 03/20/21 09:17 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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they use "logic"* and make systems of logical lies
by the way, you still haven't proven PF Tek is the only magical tek that doesn't need 3 hours of pressure cooking to "sterilize it" from mold spores. Would you boil your syringes for even 10 minutes before using them? SILLY. Most of what needs tobe killed gets killed by boiling, strong spores grow quickly, and those spores are the ones we want anyway. Doing large jars is silly, anyway, as the point is to select jars that grow quickest. You cant perpetuate a specific culture, you always need to colonize with new spores to prevent inbreeding.
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Tight Lunchbox
Drunk cat


Registered: 11/06/16
Posts: 2,116
Last seen: 4 months, 8 days
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Re: Most common reason for contam? [Re: annoyed]
#27261603 - 03/20/21 09:33 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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If you have a better way of doing it then share it with the community. Let's see it. Show us a better way to grow pounds than what has already been established.
-------------------- "it's all a joke between mom contractions and coffin fittings" The most useful tool for noobs
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Benson
The Kidd ⭐


Registered: 09/29/20
Posts: 837
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Re: Most common reason for contam? [Re: annoyed]
#27261642 - 03/20/21 10:06 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
annoyed said: All communities are toxic to me with their zealotry that's disguised as legitimate experience when it's all just egotistical ways to find meaning in their boring lives.
Yo, how about you get the fuck out then?
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smalltalk_canceled
Babnik


Registered: 07/13/20
Posts: 2,862
Last seen: 12 days, 23 hours
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Quote:
TranscendingLife said: Improper sterile procedure is the most common reason for getting a contaminant. If you inoculated all the jars with same syringe and 4 of them contam while the others didn't, I'd suspect improper flaming of the needle between jars or a bad syringe. Remember, no print or MS syringe is 100% sterile, because the mushrooms are fruited in open air.
Do most TCs really flame between each jar
Does everyone else do this too?
-------------------- Willpower is the one true virtue
  
Edited by smalltalk_canceled (03/20/21 10:10 AM)
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annoyed
Stranger

Registered: 04/12/20
Posts: 33
Last seen: 5 months, 7 days
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Quote:
Tight Lunchbox said: If you have a better way of doing it then share it with the community. Let's see it. Show us a better way to grow pounds than what has already been established.
I could never advise a better way to grow mushrooms than what a grower has learned intuitively, with a few guiding principles.
To every doubtful grower who wants my opinion, which isn't opinionated at all: 1. Do what is expedient for you, never seek approval 2. Use good logic and believe in it above all else 3. Hide your knowledge and science, show others only your art 4. Ignore every manmade rule
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Professor X
School for the Gifted



Registered: 04/18/19
Posts: 2,719
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: Most common reason for contam? [Re: annoyed]
#27261667 - 03/20/21 10:26 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
annoyed said:
Quote:
Tight Lunchbox said: If you have a better way of doing it then share it with the community. Let's see it. Show us a better way to grow pounds than what has already been established.
I could never advise a better way to grow mushrooms than what a grower has learned intuitively, with a few guiding principles.
To every doubtful grower who wants my opinion, which isn't opinionated at all: 1. Do what is expedient for you, never seek approval 2. Use good logic and believe in it above all else 3. Hide your knowledge and science, show others only your art 4. Ignore every manmade rule
While I agree with this post, the first post you bumped this with could get some newbies in serious trouble. It's hard to be profound when you aren't paying attention to the date on the thread you necro.
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Benson
The Kidd ⭐


Registered: 09/29/20
Posts: 837
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Re: Most common reason for contam? [Re: annoyed]
#27261670 - 03/20/21 10:30 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
annoyed said:
Quote:
Tight Lunchbox said: If you have a better way of doing it then share it with the community. Let's see it. Show us a better way to grow pounds than what has already been established.
I could never advise a better way to grow mushrooms than what a grower has learned intuitively, with a few guiding principles.
To every doubtful grower who wants my opinion, which isn't opinionated at all: 1. Do what is expedient for you, never seek approval 2. Use good logic and believe in it above all else 3. Hide your knowledge and science, show others only your art 4. Ignore every manmade rule
Yeah schools and teachers and books and guides are pointless. Just use logic and ur goodzie.
Tbh it sounds like you're being zealous in lieu of actual experience to find meaning in your boring life. Or maybe I'm just feeding the troll
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annoyed
Stranger

Registered: 04/12/20
Posts: 33
Last seen: 5 months, 7 days
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Re: Most common reason for contam? [Re: Benson]
#27261674 - 03/20/21 10:33 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Far too much has been assumed with a priori "logic", mere hypotheses asserted by layman limit the possibility of an easier way for the layman individual to creatively grow their mushroom, and discover a new technique even if not discovering a science to share with anyone else, for the purpose of growing in whatever quantities they wish for themselves.
Quote:
Benson said:
Quote:
annoyed said:
Quote:
Tight Lunchbox said: If you have a better way of doing it then share it with the community. Let's see it. Show us a better way to grow pounds than what has already been established.
I could never advise a better way to grow mushrooms than what a grower has learned intuitively, with a few guiding principles.
To every doubtful grower who wants my opinion, which isn't opinionated at all: 1. Do what is expedient for you, never seek approval 2. Use good logic and believe in it above all else 3. Hide your knowledge and science, show others only your art 4. Ignore every manmade rule
Yeah schools and teachers and books and guides are pointless. Just use logic and ur goodzie.
Tbh it sounds like you're being zealous in lieu of actual experience to find meaning in your boring life. Or maybe I'm just feeding the troll 
The leaders of fields control schools. One hundred years ago a B.s. qualified someone to teach at a university. Now a PhD is required. These leaders convolute simple arts into unnecessarily complex headaches.
I remember nothing from school, it was all useless to me. -Bobby Fischer
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Professor X
School for the Gifted



Registered: 04/18/19
Posts: 2,719
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: Most common reason for contam? [Re: Benson]
#27261676 - 03/20/21 10:34 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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If some of us didn't ignore what those before us said was impossible there would be no technological advance. We would still ride horses and think flying was reserved for the birds. However, this forward thinking is only a friend to the few as the masses in general are incapable of such ideas that will actually work.
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smalltalk_canceled
Babnik


Registered: 07/13/20
Posts: 2,862
Last seen: 12 days, 23 hours
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Re: Most common reason for contam? [Re: Professor X]
#27261681 - 03/20/21 10:36 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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So ten transfers from same agar to ten jars only flaming at start can be a really high source of contaminants?
-------------------- Willpower is the one true virtue
  
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Professor X
School for the Gifted



Registered: 04/18/19
Posts: 2,719
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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That is debatable depending on if a flowhood or SAB is used. If flowhood, not really. SAB, yes.
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Tight Lunchbox
Drunk cat


Registered: 11/06/16
Posts: 2,116
Last seen: 4 months, 8 days
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Re: Most common reason for contam? [Re: Professor X]
#27261705 - 03/20/21 10:53 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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so you don't actually have anything to share? that's a bummer cuz I was really looking forward to some mush pics.
-------------------- "it's all a joke between mom contractions and coffin fittings" The most useful tool for noobs
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Benson
The Kidd ⭐


Registered: 09/29/20
Posts: 837
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Bro where do I even begin with this... you bump a 7 year old thread with two TCs that gave good, legit advice. But you end it with:
Quote:
annoyed said: Thus I conclude the most common cause of contamination is a dysgenic couple of spores taking too long to colonize.
I advise everyone to ignore all the rules set up by these amateur growers larping like actual scientists.
They muddy the water to make it seem deep. -Friedrich Nietzsche
Bold claim challenging TCs and calling them frauds. Okay, so you must know what you're talking about, right?
Quote:
annoyed said: I gave childish advice backed with experience. Boomer.
Pretty salty, but okay. Backed with experience, cool, let's see it!
Quote:
annoyed said: I could never advise a better way to grow mushrooms than what a grower has learned intuitively, with a few guiding principles.
What? I thought you had some grand experience? You don't think you could advise a beginner a better way to do something?
Quote:
annoyed said: I remember nothing from school, it was all useless to me. -Bobby Fischer
Nice psudo-intellectual bullshit. Would you want your doctor saying that? Or lawyer?
Best case scenario you're a troll, most likely scenario you're a bitter loser. The cherry on top:
Quote:
annoyed said: All communities are toxic to me with their zealotry that's disguised as legitimate experience when it's all just egotistical ways to find meaning in their boring lives.
Yeah, people that do that are wild right?
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annoyed
Stranger

Registered: 04/12/20
Posts: 33
Last seen: 5 months, 7 days
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Re: Most common reason for contam? [Re: Benson]
#27262033 - 03/20/21 02:01 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Specifics on how to grow are lies.
That's all. Goodbye.
Edited by annoyed (03/20/21 02:06 PM)
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




Registered: 05/12/07
Posts: 69,348
Loc: The Inexpressible...
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Re: Most common reason for contam? [Re: Kizzle]
#27262057 - 03/20/21 02:26 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kizzle said: IME contaminated spores. When I started using agar my contamination rate dropped to 0% for most batches overnight.
I should also mention I noticed a significant improvement before that switching to dry spore inoculations instead syringes. With syringes I was losing entire batches sometimes.
Interesting! What is dry spore inoculations?
And I would say the main reason for infections comes from the inoculation step.
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Benson
The Kidd ⭐


Registered: 09/29/20
Posts: 837
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Quote:
annoyed said: Specifics on how to grow are lies.
That's all. Goodbye.
You heard him boys. Pack it up, all of the teks are lies.
Quote:
LogicaL Chaos said:
Quote:
Kizzle said: IME contaminated spores. When I started using agar my contamination rate dropped to 0% for most batches overnight.
I should also mention I noticed a significant improvement before that switching to dry spore inoculations instead syringes. With syringes I was losing entire batches sometimes.
Interesting! What is dry spore inoculations?
And I would say the main reason for infections comes from the inoculation step.
I assume he means swabbing or using an inoculation loop to spread a spore print on agar. Bacteria loves water and from what I've seen people sometimes have issues using a dirty spore syringe + the extra water that comes from squirting it on a plate.
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Circle K
What Else Do You Need?



Registered: 05/27/13
Posts: 127
Loc: Israeli Province of Detro...
Last seen: 9 months, 20 days
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Re: Most common reason for contam? [Re: annoyed]
#27262146 - 03/20/21 03:34 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
annoyed said: Specifics on how to grow are lies.
That's all. Goodbye.
I think you kind of missed the mark brother, if we tell someone how to do something, and they go mess it up, they're going to come back they're going to say a bunch of crap about us as well as a bunch of trash talk! Why in any right mind, when we get out misinformation or try and talk about a process being performed wrong?
The PF technical is about as effective as the creation of spore syringes. it is great if you are attempting to recreate a defining moment of history, but we have come forward with way better methods of cultivation.
Get me a picture of a PF cake with a canopy. I'll wait. The creation of popularity circling the pressure cooker basis on the idea that water is boiling hotter than its normal temperature, which kills all of the endospores in bacteria that mutated to survive that temperature. there is not some intrinsic, exclusive process that is taking place here. You need to grow some balls and not be scared of your pressure cooker, and then try and use your smug phonetic dialogue to tell other people that they have to do something that is most likely going to have their growth space condemned.
This thread is super old, if the search engine didn't do what you wanted it to, then this has been some beef you've been chewing on for a while, brother. I will forget more about mycology today then you will learn in the rest of your life, so I'm just going to say goodbye right back to you because you have me pretty annoyed.
-------------------- Hold on tight, to your dream! Unless you have shoeboxes, then hold onto those. Head down to the store, buy some butterfly clips, dub tub your jars, forget about them, move to Kensington, buy a boat you only ever keep in your driveway, become a Pinterest administrator, sell dollar store mugs with rhinestones hot glued all over them.
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smalltalk_canceled
Babnik


Registered: 07/13/20
Posts: 2,862
Last seen: 12 days, 23 hours
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Re: Most common reason for contam? [Re: Circle K]
#27262157 - 03/20/21 03:46 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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We need a new mega pf Tek jar thread
-------------------- Willpower is the one true virtue
  
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Failboat
Fuck Up

Registered: 02/01/18
Posts: 8,736
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Use a presto 23 as the pf tek vessel.
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Smartattack
C'mon man



Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 3,775
Loc: A thought
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Re: Most common reason for contam? [Re: Failboat]
#27262161 - 03/20/21 03:49 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Probably the biggest question...Why this thread is still open?
-------------------- * Smarts videos * Planet of the APES   I'm a fungal white supremacist.
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Failboat
Fuck Up

Registered: 02/01/18
Posts: 8,736
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Re: Most common reason for contam? [Re: Smartattack]
#27262162 - 03/20/21 03:50 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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IDK MY BFF JILL?
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FrugalFungi
Loafter

Registered: 10/12/19
Posts: 130
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: Most common reason for contam? [Re: Failboat]
#27262282 - 03/20/21 05:49 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Tell yourself somebody wants to hear your opinion and it might come true. Just "believe in it above all else" lol.
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