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emphatik
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Registered: 07/21/13
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Why is grain used as spawn?
#18776238 - 08/30/13 06:39 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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If I were growing oysters on straw, how viable is a "straw spawn"?
I know people use sawdust as spawn and fruit them in sawdust/wood chip mixes.
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tbagtag
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Registered: 01/16/13
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Re: Why is grain used as spawn? [Re: emphatik]
#18776289 - 08/30/13 07:08 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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The point of the spawn is to provide inoculation points to the substrate, which in your case would be straw. Grain provides a lot of inoculation points as surface area doesn't mean as much.
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emphatik
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Re: Why is grain used as spawn? [Re: tbagtag]
#18776392 - 08/30/13 08:06 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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is a greater number of inoculation points the only plus side to using grain?
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Midnight Cyclone
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Re: Why is grain used as spawn? [Re: emphatik]
#18776451 - 08/30/13 08:28 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Are you saying you want to try to inoculate straw instead of WBS or grain alike?
Quote:
emphatik said: is a greater number of inoculation points the only plus side to using grain?
Grain is pretty nutritious, and well tested as spawn. So you will have a lot to learn from (other grow logs).
Otherwise, this and this guy - has no affiliation with Shroomery, but I've watched a lot of his videos and he seems to know what he's talking about - should help you out.
Edited by Midnight Cyclone (08/30/13 08:29 AM)
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emphatik
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Hey. So i realize that grain is nutritious, and youre giving the culture a step up against possible contams by providing it with the richest source of nurition.
But say if you have a jar of spawn, and wanted to do a g2g before doing a bulk run. What if you g2g'd to straw and then transferred the grain/straw mix to a bulk sub?
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Nakor420
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Re: Why is grain used as spawn? [Re: emphatik]
#18776521 - 08/30/13 08:50 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
emphatik said: is a greater number of inoculation points the only plus side to using grain?
No, the species you are using is considered a "grain lover" though it will colonize other things. Grain is highly nutritious and holds moisture very well. When properly prepared grain provides the perfect micro climate for growth of mycelium as well as everything they need to be healthy in terms of nutrients. In short...grains rule...period.
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Nakor420
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Re: Why is grain used as spawn? [Re: emphatik]
#18776526 - 08/30/13 08:52 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
emphatik said: Hey. So i realize that grain is nutritious, and youre giving the culture a step up against possible contams by providing it with the richest source of nurition.
But say if you have a jar of spawn, and wanted to do a g2g before doing a bulk run. What if you g2g'd to straw and then transferred the grain/straw mix to a bulk sub?
What you are proposing is doing a "g2g" style inoculation of small amounts of bulk substrate THEN transferring all of that to a larger amount of bulk substrate in order to bring about fruiting....
Edited by Nakor420 (08/30/13 08:52 AM)
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tbagtag
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Registered: 01/16/13
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Re: Why is grain used as spawn? [Re: Nakor420]
#18776528 - 08/30/13 08:53 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nakor420 said:
Quote:
emphatik said: is a greater number of inoculation points the only plus side to using grain?
No, the species you are using is considered a "grain lover" though it will colonize other things. Grain is highly nutritious and holds moisture very well. When properly prepared grain provides the perfect micro climate for growth of mycelium as well as everything they need to be healthy in terms of nutrients. In short...grains rule...period. 
I can't comment on oysters as I have never cultivated them. But your answer seems sound. OP you're trying to use only straw? Is it due to lack of a pc?
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Midnight Cyclone
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Re: Why is grain used as spawn? [Re: emphatik]
#18776531 - 08/30/13 08:54 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
But say if you have a jar of spawn, and wanted to do a g2g before doing a bulk run. What if you g2g'd to straw and then transferred the grain/straw mix to a bulk sub?
You're adding an extra, unnecessary step.
G2G is called grain to grain because it is just a way of expanding grain.
Considering that you're talking about doing grain -> straw, you're essentially just spawning to bulk that isn't in bulk yet.
If you're gonna spawn to straw, just go grain to straw. Not grain to a little bit of straw to more straw. You're adding more possible trouble as straw is already pretty contam-prone.
Do you not want grain in your substrate? What's the origin of the question? Why did you want to ask this?
I feel like these three questions should help me get a better idea of what you're trying to accomplish, or why you're trying to do it that way, at least!
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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OP, why are you heart-set on spawning bulk to bulk?
If you want to spawn colonized straw to more bulk substrate, you could. And you could probably get away with it.
But...
Grains are not only nutritious but they colonize with relative speed and are easily expandable. If you want to make more substrate but don't have enough spawn, you can grain-to-grain to make more spawn.
The consistency of grains is appropriate for the task as well, where as straw or other bulk substrate material is not. You spend less time breaking up the grains and you don't have to use your hands so you can keep it sterile.
Also, good luck mixing your colonized straw evenly with your next substrate. Expect delayed colonization times. Grains on the other hand can be mixed very evenly with a bulk substrate.
Once you put your grains to your bulk substrate, you want to let them colonize and fruit. It's just the ideal way to do it 
Quote:
Nakor420 said: No, the species you are using is considered a "grain lover" though it will colonize other things.
No it's not...
Oysters are woodlovers.
Almost every fungus will grow on hydrated grains under suitable conditions
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Nakor420
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Oh...I'm guitly of not reading whole threads sometimes... I was thinking he had a grain lover because we were talking grain spawn... my bad YO!
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emphatik
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Registered: 07/21/13
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Sorry about that. should have given a premise on where Im going about with this.
Im trying to be as cheap as possible. I can get straw for free.
What I was thinking was that when you're expanding grain into more grain and doing a bulk run, youre giving the mycelium an advantage against possible contams. The only other benfit of expanding into more grain, I can think of is that the grow fruits better.
But in a normal grow, how much of the grain is spent entirely by the mushroom, by the time you hit your second flush? During the spawn wouldnt the original amount of grain be an adequate source of nutrition for the mycelium?
So what Id like to get away with is use as little grain as possible, while getting decent fruting..
Being economical,and maxmizing straw in my grow is what Im trying to get at.
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Nakor420
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Re: Why is grain used as spawn? [Re: emphatik]
#18776617 - 08/30/13 09:27 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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idk man...straw is highly prone to contamination.....experiment is all I can say...make sure you sterilize your "straw-jars" good.
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Why is grain used as spawn? [Re: emphatik]
#18776626 - 08/30/13 09:31 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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If you are looking to minimize your grains, make straw logs with a 1:10 spawn:straw ratio.
The grains are there as a method of expanding your mycelium, be it to straw, coir, or more grains.
No need to worry about the nutrition of the grains specifically.
Your mushrooms just want dead organic material to grow on and consume, and a healthy reservoir of water.
Once provided these things and if nothing contams along the way, you will get mushrooms until your mycelium runs out of energy.
Quote:
Nakor420 said: Oh...I'm guitly of not reading whole threads sometimes... I was thinking he had a grain lover because we were talking grain spawn... my bad YO! 

"Grain-lover" applies to almost all fungus...find me one that won't grow on grains.
It is not a term used to categorize different kinds.
Edited by FrankHorrigan (08/30/13 09:44 AM)
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Midnight Cyclone
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Quote:
Frank: Your mushrooms just want dead organic material to grow on and consume, and a healthy reservoir of water.
The huge benefit that grains hold over straw is the ability to be that reservoir of water.
Quote:
Frank: If you are looking to minimize your grains, make straw logs with a 1:10 spawn:straw ratio.
But, this.
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emphatik
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Re: Why is grain used as spawn? [Re: emphatik]
#18776683 - 08/30/13 09:53 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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yup. which brings me back to square one. i was indeed set on going for a 1:10 spawn to bulk ratio. But, I thought this would be more prone to contam. So i thought a 1:4 ratio of grain/straw spawn to uncolonized straw would use the same amount of grain, but leave less room for contams to colonize.
Edited by emphatik (08/30/13 09:58 AM)
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



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Re: Why is grain used as spawn? [Re: emphatik]
#18776705 - 08/30/13 10:02 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Pasteurized straw will not contam before the first flush if your grain spawn is clean and pasteurization done properly.
For straw, I rely on RR's straw pasteurization video.
Not only that, oysters are voracious little bastards. That log will colonize a lot faster than you'd expect.
Have you seen them rip through the grains yet?
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emphatik
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Re: Why is grain used as spawn? [Re: emphatik]
#18776707 - 08/30/13 10:07 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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thanks frank.
thats why i had initially thought a 1:10 ratio would be a good idea. The grain/straw idea is something i thought would mitigate any chance of possible contam.
Gonna g2g to some wbs and buy some jars today..
Yea i have more spawn than i know what to do..
Edited by emphatik (08/30/13 10:08 AM)
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emphatik
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Re: Why is grain used as spawn? [Re: emphatik]
#18776710 - 08/30/13 10:09 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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with..
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Nakor420
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said:

"Grain-lover" applies to almost all fungus...find me one that won't grow on grains.
It is not a term used to categorize different kinds.
Oh...
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