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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations
Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: Longer consolidation time leads to greater potency in first flush...and 2nd flush... [Re: Oeric McKenna] 1
#16825593 - 09/10/12 08:18 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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The slower the more potent, IME.
PS
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Amphibolos
Le bourgeois gentilhomme
Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 626
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Re: Longer consolidation time leads to greater potency in first flush...and 2nd flush... [Re: PrimalSoup] 1
#16830386 - 09/11/12 05:38 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said:
Do you know what that is exactly?
What do you mean?
-------------------- "Homo sum ; humani nihil a me alienum puto"
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations
Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: Longer consolidation time leads to greater potency in first flush...and 2nd flush... [Re: Amphibolos] 1
#16831851 - 09/11/12 09:33 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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The genes that code for psilocybin manufacturing, is what I meant, what I thought you meant.
Keeping in mind it could be in a epigenetic system and more subtle - which might be even more useful - a little work and you're growing pure DMT at 2% concentration by weight in common edibles, yummm!
PS
-------------------- if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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cloudpersona
I don't even...
Registered: 12/17/11
Posts: 1,285
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Re: Longer consolidation time leads to greater potency in first flush...and 2nd flush... [Re: PrimalSoup] 1
#16832247 - 09/11/12 10:37 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said: The genes that code for psilocybin manufacturing, is what I meant, what I thought you meant.
Keeping in mind it could be in a epigenetic system and more subtle - which might be even more useful - a little work and you're growing pure DMT at 2% concentration by weight in common edibles, yummm!
PS
That discovery would be one of the more awesome things in my life if it happened.
-------------------- “The shaman is not merely a sick man, or a madman; he is a sick man who has healed himself.” – Terence McKenna “If the words ‘life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness’ don’t include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn’t worth the hemp it was written on.” -Terence McKenna
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Smeagol
Poke my 3rd eye
Registered: 04/14/13
Posts: 319
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keep the investigation alive! [Re: PrimalSoup] 1
#18775144 - 08/29/13 09:08 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Rezzin an older thread . . But its an old idea thats been going around and around it seems! Got permission of sorts. With all the experimenting of sub mixes, fruiting chambers, mixing and matching Im not sure why this idea hasn't really been put to the test. It cant be tested with specifics but with enough people trying it and testing it some form of anecdotal evidence will have to surface. There was a thread linked above talking about the blind tests and how the possibility of knowing could effect the subjective experience. There has to be people on here who share to give reports besides people testing their own. Especially those who dont believe. It osnt like they aint growing. Just throw a tub in the closet and prove it all wrong! If I was experienced and had some clone or isolate Id give it a try but I have to get to mushrooms first!
I have zero experience to add just another brain pondering ideas and searching the net. I guess m two ideas are 1: left to digest the sub longer the mycelium will convert more materials into usable form and have them available for fruiting and making whatever it is they feel like making. 2: almost every living thing I know of needs to mature to provide the best offspring be it flowers fruit or humans. While they are not a plant or an animal, both focus on reproducing when flowering or pregnant. So does fungus. Its a different enviroment and different growth pattern. Once mycelium is placed in flower thats whats its doing. Im sure its still eating the sub but its also developing fruit bodies, amd fruit bodies produce spores, not digeste materials. A fruit tree needs a certain amount of time before it will fruit, and it produces more fruit of better quality with age. For humans theres different reports of babies born to teenage mothers have different "deficiencies" an scoring in the lower brackets of tests. Is it faulty logic to think letting mycelium"mature" in the sub wont give better reproduction? Building a more dense network of mycelium and nutrients to produce fruit bodies? Even if potency increases by very little I have to assume yeild will increase. With increased yeild alone youre getting more mushrooms for your work and money. Even better if they are more potent. I guess if it is proven true it will depend on how someone values time compared to yeild amd exactly what they want. Most weight in the shortest period of time. More potent fruits. . . . Would it be worth waiting 30-40% longer for 10% more yeild of mushrooms that are 40% more potent?
-------------------- The road to hell is paved with good intentions, but it is not paved with clarity.” -Terence "If you're not peaking what the fuck are you doing?" Dude on facebook
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations
Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: keep the investigation alive! [Re: Smeagol] 1
#18775441 - 08/29/13 10:17 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thanks for posting, everybody's welcome anytime.
The downside to doing this is that the consolidated sub has to SURVIVE the extended period. That's not guaranteed.
But re. your points (1) - agreed - and (2) - fruiting was literally overnight.
This technique seems to have been independently discovered a number of times. Why it hasn't been rigorously tested - well, you do the math. Extended time required, and how to you get the baseline for the unextended fruits, for which all else should be the same? They would have to match the first strain which was extended, so basically you'd have to take a refrigerated culture out of storage, reanimate it (not so hard) and grow it out under the same exact conditions as the first one had, but without the extra time. Keep track of all the variables, and then double-blind test it (which isn't that easy). Do this quite a few times if you really want a bioassay to be meaningful. Here's a case where a mass spectrometry would come in handy.
What this thread is more about is to just encourage people to do their own, uncontrolled tests, with the idea that they might want to incorporate extended consolidation into their usual tek. I have some difficulty planning it that far in advance (I WANT CUBES AND I WANT THEM NOW!) but it's still in my mind, and I'm gonna try and test the PE strain I've been growing this way pretty soon - or more like several months down the road, even if I start now.
There's not really any more overall time involved in using it, but you do have to have more material for the subs that are sitting rather than fruiting, and you'd have to plan your grows months in advance...
PS
-------------------- if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Smeagol
Poke my 3rd eye
Registered: 04/14/13
Posts: 319
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Re: keep the investigation alive! [Re: PrimalSoup] 1
#18776312 - 08/30/13 07:25 AM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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To misquote Terence McKenna "If it happens to you, youre crazy. If it happens to 100 you're a cult. If it happens to10,000 its true." There has to be a way to manipulate potency. Not turn a cube into a pan cyan but something like a cube x 1.5. If it can work with a cube try a pan cyan. like everything it wont be for everyone or every grow. But it would be nice to see a wider group testing the theory.
Cactus growers poke their babies saying it makes them more potent. Adding "sugar" to ferts helps mj growers by feeding the mychozzia and other stuff in the soil. Manipulating humans diets can enhance result be it weight loss or building muscle. Not something like steroids or feeding shrooms DMT but consolidation time, maybe varied daytime and night time temps.
Ive been known to have faulty logic at times but giving mycelium time to really dig into bulk sub seems like a good idea.
Damn prohibition makes real scientific studies almost impossible and results are almost always skewed or the test is flawed. Like mj kill braincell. The monkeys were straped into mask and basically suffocated with pot smoke.
Im not thinking making a mushie produce unnatural potency but finding ways to push it to the max.
Once I can grow dependably and have a dedicated fridge for cultures and stuff maybe Ill try the testing method from that linked thread. Randomize equal doses of a aged run and normal run (jar A and jar B) then have someone else randomly number them & put them in one jar for me to draw from. . .
-------------------- The road to hell is paved with good intentions, but it is not paved with clarity.” -Terence "If you're not peaking what the fuck are you doing?" Dude on facebook
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blueconfusion
Strangest
Registered: 12/14/12
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Re: keep the investigation alive! [Re: Smeagol] 1
#18776553 - 08/30/13 09:01 AM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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My tub is colonizing now, gonna try the linger consolidation... I usually just thro it into fruiting excited to see results!!!
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations
Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: keep the investigation alive! [Re: blueconfusion] 1
#18777200 - 08/30/13 12:43 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Excellent. Post back with any results.
PS
-------------------- if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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cronicr
Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: keep the investigation alive! [Re: PrimalSoup] 1
#19311957 - 12/22/13 01:38 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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well my adventure started with a clone grow from some ksss, i did about 10 qts of grain with a master jar but one jar had been a little bit behind(my last g2g so it didn't get as much) so i had used the others for a mono and left the one to colonize, unfortunately i had to go fishing(commercial) and didn't come back for a month and even then had to go right back out, fast foreward to over four months later and fishing was over and my jar had now been consolidating for over four months, there was alot of munched grain there and about a 1/4 inch gap between the sub and the glass from the consolidating but with nuthing to lose i just decided to break it up and and spawn it anyway, suprisingly enough i had no issues like most say you want it at it's colonizing stage and not consolidated but mine was done in under 10 days no problem at all and was nice healthy growth and pinned RIGHT at full colonization and i'm talking within 3 days, not only did it pin fast but i got awesome looking fruits from this with no casing layer(i find ksss to benifit from one i get no short fat fruits). so i dried them up and put them away like normal. and then comes last night, i had decided to get my holiday high on but didn't wanna get all fucked up, my average cube dose is 5 grams or more but being that i had shit to do today i decided to only do 3 grams.........i've never been that high on cubes before and i do alot of them, it felt like i had ate 3 grams of pans my head was vibrating and everything was pulsing for what seemed to be forever lol, my original thought was it was ksss related as i never actually endavoured on them and thought maybe thats y they call it a super strain but if that were the case everyone would be doing them i would think...right? whatever the case the 4 month consolidation never slowed down my cultivation and my fruits kicked the fucking shit out of me last night and i think i was all over the boards trying to find answers lol. just thought i'd share my experience here primal
-------------------- It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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BittrBuffalo
Deaconica
Registered: 05/19/13
Posts: 1,729
Loc: Church of the SubGenus
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Re: keep the investigation alive! [Re: cronicr] 1
#19313085 - 12/22/13 06:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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So have you experimented with it enough to find a "potency saturation point"--as in, at what point does it no longer benefit from continuing to consolidate? And do you let your jar of grain consolidate before spawning to bulk, or is it only that letting the tub consolidate before introducing it to fruiting conditions that makes a difference?
-------------------- Disclaimer: This post is a work of fiction, provided for entertainment purposes only. Any resemblance to actual persons or events, past or present, is strictly coincidental. All celebrity voices are impersonated. If you begin your ID request with, "I just ate a bunch of these mushrooms…should I not have done that?" I'm just gonna sit back and watch Darwin at work.
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k00laid
NEMO
Registered: 05/03/10
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Re: keep the investigation alive! [Re: BittrBuffalo] 1
#19313124 - 12/22/13 06:43 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
BittrBuffalo said: as in, at what point does it no longer benefit from continuing to consolidate?
well the mushrooms will start growing regardless of how hard you try and keep it consolidating
cubensis grow like wildfire
-------------------- AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations
Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: keep the investigation alive! [Re: k00laid] 1
#19313337 - 12/22/13 07:25 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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So long as you keep it strictly GE (and I mean STRICTLY) though it may throw out a few minisnake pins it won't go into fruiting - because it can't. This is when they're in trays, BTW. In jars with filters I've run myc for months on end as well, but the amazing potency boosts I've only seen with the tray approach (so far).
But to answer the question, no I don't know if there's a point of max returns beyond which it doesn't improve. That could be a really long term experiment but I'm up for it. We can only try and see.
Cronicr that was awesome. Good one!
PS
-------------------- if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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hill76
most worshipful master
Registered: 10/04/09
Posts: 117
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Re: keep the investigation alive! [Re: PrimalSoup] 1
#19486028 - 01/28/14 12:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Sorry have not posted in awhile but reading this thread makes me wonder if there is any relation to this and the fact that pins are stronger by weight than adult mush. If anyone has ever grown invitro jars they can back this up.
-------------------- 93/93
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations
Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
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Re: keep the investigation alive! [Re: hill76] 1
#19486534 - 01/28/14 02:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Pins do tend to have more actives by % but if you harvest all the pins on a grow vs letting them develop the overall is less. So I'm not seeing a connection...
PS
-------------------- if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
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Re: keep the investigation alive! [Re: PrimalSoup] 2
#19495848 - 01/30/14 10:45 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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The connection is it's a shit-ton less to eat. Uncooked mushrooms cause upset stomach, which ruins more trips than anything else. Any time we can get more alkaloids while eating less non-digestible material, it's a positive. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations
Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
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Re: keep the investigation alive! [Re: RogerRabbit] 1
#19496546 - 01/30/14 01:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I guess I didn't mention that my motivation for improving potency is to reduce the amount required when tripping repeatedly, and this is using tea exclusively. I did mention tea though:
Quote:
... Note that "extraction methods" are IME a nonissue if you're using an acidic tea preparation method - I've posted amply about this so I won't repeat it here except to cite Gold's work on quantifying alkaloid content
PS
-------------------- if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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ghiajake
Myco-Viking
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Re: keep the investigation alive! [Re: PrimalSoup] 1
#19498724 - 01/30/14 09:05 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I was gonna say that making a tea is the best way to consume the active alkaloids without any of the non-digestible matertial, but it looks like PS already covered that.
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katore
Mycopheliac
Registered: 12/08/13
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Re: keep the investigation alive! [Re: ghiajake] 1
#19561089 - 02/13/14 11:18 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'll be able to contribute my observations in a few weeks. I have enough sub colonizing atm that will fill my greenhouse twice and is nearly fully colonized. I'll fruit the 1st half as soon as it's ready and the second half will wait until two or three flushes of the 1st half. I would have to guess it will have colonized a month over.
Unfortunately these were from spores but the next run will be of cloned fruit from the best of this round and I'll do it again. It's just unfortunate I don't have any way to measure a defined value.
I'd love to see more objective information make its way to this thread.
-------------------- Don't demand success, command it!
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cronicr
Registered: 08/07/11
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Re: keep the investigation alive! [Re: katore] 1
#19561547 - 02/13/14 01:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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i got a jar of grain 4 weeks into consolidation, gonna case it this week and see what it brings
-------------------- It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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