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InvisibleFlop Johnson
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Can LSD cause permanent psychosis?
    #5869158 - 07/17/06 02:24 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

No circumstantial evidence. . . yes or no.

I'm having an argument with a friend that needs resolving.

Thanks.


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Invisibledespisedicon
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Re: Can LSD cause permanent psychosis? [Re: Flop Johnson]
    #5869173 - 07/17/06 02:29 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

No


Edit: If Seeker says yes it can, then I admit I was wrong. My previous research suggested that it could not.


Edited by despisedicon (07/17/06 03:39 PM)


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Offlinedubbyah
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Re: Can LSD cause permanent psychosis? [Re: despisedicon]
    #5869231 - 07/17/06 02:49 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

uhh, yes it can, if you're prone to mental disorders, having relatives with schizophrenia, that kind of stuff.

even if you aren't prone to mental disorders, if you do high enough doses too much, it can. i've seen it happen and heard about it happening from countless people, they were never the same after X amounts of LSD.

alot of people in the psychedelic scene like the previous poster are in denial that there is risk of serious mental damage by using high doses of hallucinogens too much. some people can handle doing this, but some people can't.



also, moeron: giving people a bad rating because they gave you one for trolling a thread and making fake posts to piss people off is incredible immature. good job.


Edited by dubbyah (07/17/06 02:57 PM)


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OfflineClammyJoe
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Re: Can LSD cause permanent psychosis? [Re: dubbyah]
    #5869252 - 07/17/06 02:59 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I'm gonna have to agree with ^. If you aren't right in the head before you take them, theres a chance it could get worse after, but very large doses can and will do it to people. I know a man who spent 15 years in treatment after he took his last trip, and he still isn't "normal" as he was before.


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InvisibleFlop Johnson
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Re: Can LSD cause permanent psychosis? [Re: dubbyah]
    #5869295 - 07/17/06 03:13 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

.


Edited by Flop Johnson (08/01/11 12:26 AM)


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Can LSD cause permanent psychosis? [Re: Flop Johnson]
    #5869349 - 07/17/06 03:30 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, definitely.


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Can LSD cause permanent psychosis? [Re: Asante]
    #5869368 - 07/17/06 03:37 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

The problem is cause and effect.

There is no objective data (that I am aware of) showing that LSD can cause permanent damage. Intuitively, it may seem so, however you can imagine the problems in designing such a study.



--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


Edited by badchad (07/17/06 03:41 PM)


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InvisibleFlop Johnson
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Re: Can LSD cause permanent psychosis? [Re: badchad]
    #5869386 - 07/17/06 03:46 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
The problem is cause and effect.

There is no objective data (that I am aware of) showing that LSD can cause permanent damage. Intuitively, it may seem so, however you can imagine the problems in designing such a study.






:laugh: haha


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OfflineDeathCompany
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Re: Can LSD cause permanent psychosis? [Re: Flop Johnson]
    #5869740 - 07/17/06 06:01 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

yes it can cause it


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Offlinecybrbeast
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Re: Can LSD cause permanent psychosis? [Re: Asante]
    #5874233 - 07/18/06 07:04 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

How do you know this? I may cause a psychotic episode or expose underlying problems but permanent psychosis?


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OfflineRandomHero
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Re: Can LSD cause permanent psychosis? [Re: cybrbeast]
    #5874293 - 07/18/06 07:28 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

by alls means yes i knew/know a kid who is f.u.b.a.r'ed and i think its because of a combonation of lsd and many of other drugs in a short period
this kid was hte most coolest kid in high school now if u hang out with him its like he's a little messed up in the head
example we can be watching tv together and i'll walk out the room n come back and he'll be watching the house of senate debating and he'll be laffing like some kinda madman
and sometimes we'll just be sitting there chillin and he'll burst out in lafter then within seconds he'll say something that just isnt right
some people might know what i mean...
its kinda sad to see what happended to this guy
i can't even imagine...
everybody says it was his LSD use i find that just crazy
i mean the kid was buying/eating sheets/acid for god knows how many years
..glad i didnt get my hands on the shit then..god knows who i'd be by now.


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Been you to have any spike, man?.


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Can LSD cause permanent psychosis? [Re: Asante]
    #5874534 - 07/18/06 08:33 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Yes, definitely.




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HELP!!!!!!!!!


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Offlinecybrbeast
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Re: Can LSD cause permanent psychosis? [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5874817 - 07/18/06 09:30 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I'd like to see some evidence on this, maybe some medical reports or research.

...from Wiki
Quote:

Psychosis

There are some cases of LSD inducing or triggering a psychosis in people who were apparently healthy prior to taking LSD. This issue was reviewed extensively in a 1984 publication by Rick Strassman.[34] In most cases, the psychosis-like reaction is of short duration, but in other cases it may be chronic. It is difficult to determine if LSD itself induces these reactions or if it merely triggers latent conditions that would have manifested themselves otherwise. The similarities of time course and outcomes between putatively LSD-precipitated and other psychoses suggests that the two types of syndromes are not different and that LSD may have been a nonspecific trigger. Several studies have tried to estimate the prevalence of LSD-induced prolonged psychosis arriving at numbers of around 4 in 1,000 individuals (0.8 in 1,000 volunteers and 1.8 in 1,000 psychotherapy patients in Cohen 1960 [35]; 9 per 1,000 psychotherapy patients in Melleson 1971 [36]). But these rates are far lower than the lifetime prevalence for psychotic conditions: schizophrenia, to pick just one type of psychosis, has a lifetime prevalence of about 1% in populations that are not exposed to LSD. In itself, this suggests no causative link between LSD and chronic psychotic disorders.




--------------------
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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Can LSD cause permanent psychosis? [Re: cybrbeast]
    #5875086 - 07/18/06 10:16 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

The whole universe lies inside your mind. That makes it very easy to say "that was already there" Sure, it probably was, but it was in the background, now, now its in the foreground. Play with words all you want, the end result is the same. "I was OK, then I took acid, now I'm fucked up." This is not meant to be negative in anyway towards psychedelics, psychedelics are very important powerful tools that can take us beyond sanity and also before sanity. Show them respect and use them properly.


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HELP!!!!!!!!!


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Offlinechris92346
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Re: Can LSD cause permanent psychosis? [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5875430 - 07/18/06 11:28 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I don't know about psychosis but ask anybody that has done very large doses... they are never the same again... but ussually they report most of the changes in a positive light.


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Offlinerazorbladeshoes
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Re: Can LSD cause permanent psychosis? [Re: badchad]
    #5879147 - 07/19/06 10:55 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
The problem is cause and effect.

There is no objective data (that I am aware of) showing that LSD can cause permanent damage. Intuitively, it may seem so, however you can imagine the problems in designing such a study.




Psychosis and brain damage are not synonymous. Sure, there might not be a lot of evidence that it causes brain damage, but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Regardless, the original question was whether LSD can cause psychosis. Two words: Syd Barrett.

Sure, he may have had a predisposition for it, but most of the other members of Floyd are of the opinion that overuse of LSD was the main cause. They certainly knew him better than we did.


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Offlinetwiggedoubt
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Re: Can LSD cause permanent psychosis? [Re: razorbladeshoes]
    #5879224 - 07/19/06 11:17 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Saying that someone that ends up triggering certain mental disorders after an LSD experience was going to happen anyway is impossible to prove. You would never know, as you have nothing to compare it to. Also, a question of how much time it would have taken is also another issue. Using LSD has risk, especially if you have mental disorders in your family. A really bad LSD trip can be just as traumatising as someone getting killed, though that is probally the extreme, it is possible. I also wouldn't be suprised if it LSD could trigger PTSD, in certain instances. Psychedelics can be a double edged sword.


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Offlinepmoseman
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Re: Can LSD cause permanent psychosis? [Re: cybrbeast] * 1
    #18775711 - 08/30/13 02:13 AM (4 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

cybrbeast said:
I'd like to see some evidence on this, maybe some medical reports or research.

...from Wiki
Quote:

Psychosis

There are some cases of LSD inducing or triggering a psychosis in people who were apparently healthy prior to taking LSD. This issue was reviewed extensively in a 1984 publication by Rick Strassman.[34] In most cases, the psychosis-like reaction is of short duration, but in other cases it may be chronic. It is difficult to determine if LSD itself induces these reactions or if it merely triggers latent conditions that would have manifested themselves otherwise. The similarities of time course and outcomes between putatively LSD-precipitated and other psychoses suggests that the two types of syndromes are not different and that LSD may have been a nonspecific trigger. Several studies have tried to estimate the prevalence of LSD-induced prolonged psychosis arriving at numbers of around 4 in 1,000 individuals (0.8 in 1,000 volunteers and 1.8 in 1,000 psychotherapy patients in Cohen 1960 [35]; 9 per 1,000 psychotherapy patients in Melleson 1971 [36]). But these rates are far lower than the lifetime prevalence for psychotic conditions: schizophrenia, to pick just one type of psychosis, has a lifetime prevalence of about 1% in populations that are not exposed to LSD. In itself, this suggests no causative link between LSD and chronic psychotic disorders.







This bugs me.

The Cohen data shows that LSD caused psychosis in 0.13% percent of 3,850 psychotherapy patients. Life-altering long-term symptoms, not all of them lasting beyond 6 months with continued professional treatment. These are actual events and the Wiki tries to just brush them off like casual traitors to the Force.

Cocaine, amphetamines, phencyclidine, cannabinoids, LSD, mescaline, steroids, anticholinergic compounds, and steroids. These are major causes of drug-induced psychosis. (Emergency Medicine Clinics of North America)

The statement this Wiki places prominately at the end of a short rehash of -pedia dispensed evidence and research states, as a conclusion, there is no causitive link. Sorry, but we must dismiss this notion. First and foremost, it has no evidence. Second, we have no significant way of precluding ourselves as potential psychotics. Third, drug-induced psychosis is known and differentiated from latent-psychosis.

Onto the second half of the game, "Locate bullshit flung toward the careful research of professionals", through the rolling hills of assumptions that Cohen forgot painfully obvious factors, like there being less drug-induced psychotics than schizophrenics in two different population sets, and one data set is the lifetime prevelance, the other an immediate reaction lasting several months, and seperated by at least 4 decades.

Finland, as an example, lifetime prevelance of substance-induced psychotic disorder (as defined by ICD-10) was 0.42% and schizophrenia spectrum psychotic disorders 1.9%. They seem to have no trouble differentiating the two groups. Also note that drug-induced psychosis is always going to be lower than the total of psychotic disorders. I wonder if those researchers caught that one, a bit tricky.

Another study reports that 7% of alcoholics experience hallucinosis and 25% of alcoholics experience schizo-typical symptoms and hallucinations. (Handbook of Alcoholism) The drug-induced cases are clearly separate. Also note no mention of latent psychosis. Why? Nobody cares.

The subjects in the Cohen LSD research were given LSD, some intended to "induce" short-term schizophrenic symptoms, some several times, but such a prevelance of drug-induced psychosis from a couple treatments could never be attained by doing this study with alcohol. This is so obvious you may as well try it with bananas (oh wait, was that going to be your argument?). We see 7% of the drug-induced psychotics, in the real world portion of the United States, resulting from the abuse of alcohol. What might this tell us about real world experience of LSD abusers? Possibly, it tells us that we should expect a number greater than 7%.

Spiffy.

In a study made of 49 patients observed at Los Angeles County Hospital, as a direct result of LSD ingestion, 57 per cent of these patients had an extended psychosis develop although they had no previous history of psychotic behavior. (Calif Med. 1967 November; 107(5): 396–398.) Show me that with alcohol. It seems also to confirm a littely theory I had some time ago about something > 7%.

Latent psychosis is an underlying vulnerability that manifests under intense stress. Does the latent individual normally suffer through prolonged psychosis? That is what the WIKI is implying. In actual latent-psychotics live normal, oddly punctual, lives. They are a group which includes, most tellingly, the LSD users. Besides the arguments from me, you have experts of the field informing other researchers that LSD is a well-known cause of psychosis. (Abraham 1993)

So here come the crazies. People seeing the real world through the eyes of 4th grade and LSD to tell me that I got it all wrong. The ones that believe we are making up an orange-juice story to coddle the government.

A sound hypothesis would be that people already possessing mental disorders are attracted to recreational drug abuse. This is actually a well-known theory. So what difference does it make to anyone if these are the ones taking LSD? It does nothing but add to the problem, and the population of LSD users are crazy. There is so much insurmountable evidence that LSD causes psychosis, and just as much that if you stop taking it that it goes away, that if you are concerned, just stay away.

I have talked with users on-line who claim to have taken several hundered hits of acid, then they try and convince me I am being brainwashed, or better yet, closed-minded. Why would I be brainwashed? Is it because... gasp! I took drugs? My friend called me on a cell phone after leaving the mental institute. He is a nice guy, but the messages they had put in his radio, telling him to stop taking LSD, were really bothering him. Sorry, I know crazy. When you talk to walls and they talk back, crazy. You are either crazy for believing the walls talked to you, or you are crazy for believing the walls never talked to you, or you are ignoring it.


Edited by pmoseman (08/30/13 10:42 PM)


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Offlineoregonshroomers
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Re: Can LSD cause permanent psychosis? [Re: pmoseman]
    #18775805 - 08/30/13 03:11 AM (4 years, 22 days ago)

No :crazy2:


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Offlineoregonshroomers
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Re: Can LSD cause permanent psychosis? [Re: oregonshroomers] * 1
    #18775809 - 08/30/13 03:14 AM (4 years, 22 days ago)

crap I just realized this 7 years old.


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