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CitizenErased
Stranger
Registered: 05/10/13
Posts: 246
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Pasteurization Problems
#18774723 - 08/29/13 07:29 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I seriously can't pasteurize on my stove. I just wasted 19 jars of hydrated coir, etc because my stove likes to cause giant leaps in temperature out of nowhere. It takes insanely long to climb to 145, and as soon as does, it jumps up to 180 or so out of nowhere and refuses to drop. Has anyone else had this problem? Did you find a workaround?
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tbagtag
Boomer Barron

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 1,432
Loc: Amsterdam
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I use an oven roaster that you get at walmart. It still takes forever but I dont have to stand over it. 4 hours for the first batch 3 hours for the second batch. I can do 10-12qts per batch.
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nepter627
Infinite Being



Registered: 06/20/13
Posts: 257
Loc: NeptunE
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: Pasteurization Problems [Re: tbagtag]
#18774920 - 08/29/13 08:16 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
tbagtag said: I use an oven roaster that you get at walmart. It still takes forever but I dont have to stand over it. 4 hours for the first batch 3 hours for the second batch. I can do 10-12qts per batch.
what if you ran two or three roasters at a time??
you could do twice or three times as much?
do you just fill the roaster with the sub and set the oven at 160?
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tbagtag
Boomer Barron

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 1,432
Loc: Amsterdam
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Re: Pasteurization Problems [Re: nepter627]
#18774986 - 08/29/13 08:32 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I set it at 155, the thermostat is a bit off. I used a candy thermometer for the water and a meat thermometer for the sub for the first couple of runs. You could use more roasters if you so choose. They aren't that small I don't have the space.
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nepter627
Infinite Being



Registered: 06/20/13
Posts: 257
Loc: NeptunE
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: Pasteurization Problems [Re: tbagtag]
#18775001 - 08/29/13 08:35 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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so are oven roasters almost like a double boiler?
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tbagtag
Boomer Barron

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 1,432
Loc: Amsterdam
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Re: Pasteurization Problems [Re: nepter627]
#18775174 - 08/29/13 09:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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pretty much. But with a heating element running underneath the whole thing. It even comes with a tray so you can elevate further from the element.
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nepter627
Infinite Being



Registered: 06/20/13
Posts: 257
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Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: Pasteurization Problems [Re: tbagtag]
#18775270 - 08/29/13 09:39 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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and you say walmart has them??
whats the price tag on them?
im going to need to get me one of those.
i like franks proper pasteurization tek but i dont like the fact that i have to use jars i feel like i would need a good 12 qt jars to pasturize enought sub for one 66qt tub
and if i could just fit enough sub for a 66qt mono in one roaster it seems more logical to me.
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tbagtag
Boomer Barron

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 1,432
Loc: Amsterdam
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Re: Pasteurization Problems [Re: nepter627]
#18775329 - 08/29/13 09:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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yeah, I got mine for $20 for a 16qt roaster. I use gallon ziploc baggies with no issue, 1 baggie can hold up to 4qts of substrate depending on how "fluffy" your sub is before it goes in. Still use a meat and candy thermometer your first few uses (the 2 combined are like $6 or $7) because the heating element is cheap and the temp gauge on it is not that accurate, you dont want to sterilize.
Also with the baggies I can fit 3 across, and again depending on your sub will determine how much will actually fit in the bag. I know it sounds weird but different verms seemed to make an impact at how much I could fit, either that or I smoked too much and fucked up my ratio. Either way I love my roaster, that and my dehydrator are the best investments.
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Citric


Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 4,490
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Re: Pasteurization Problems [Re: tbagtag]
#18775348 - 08/29/13 09:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Oven is bad, as the outsides are pasteurized or cooked and the inside is just warm. I'd do the bucket tek instead.
TBH, if you are using coir, you can get away with a bucket tek, or even sterilizing has worked fine for me in the past! I as well as many old time growers used coir as a casing layer, and we always sterilized coir for a casing.
Would I recommend it? No. But you _can_ get away with it with coir. Manure? Please don't.
Years ago we use to use a pillow casing, submerged in water, inside of a cooler to pasteurize. It's really not rocket science.
-------------------- Self Healing lid tek ** Update 10.17.17 ** Mini casing pictures: Pins to harvest Cup O' Shrooms Magash: I noticed my contams were in the shape of fingers Hyphae: Yes "Loss of moisture from the substrate" is not a casing trigger. My final Grow!
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tbagtag
Boomer Barron

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 1,432
Loc: Amsterdam
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Re: Pasteurization Problems [Re: Citric]
#18775377 - 08/29/13 10:01 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Citric said: Oven is bad, as the outsides are pasteurized or cooked and the inside is just warm. I'd do the bucket tek instead.
TBH, if you are using coir, you can get away with a bucket tek, or even sterilizing has worked fine for me in the past! I as well as many old time growers used coir as a casing layer, and we always sterilized coir for a casing.
Would I recommend it? No. But you _can_ get away with it with coir. Manure? Please don't.
Years ago we use to use a pillow casing, submerged in water, inside of a cooler to pasteurize. It's really not rocket science.
Its not in the oven. Think of an electric double boiler and that's what an oven roaster is. Its a common confusion, but trust me this is just as easy as bucket tek as it will hold temps. For proper pasteurization you need 2 things; the ability to hold temperatures in the 160-170 range for 1 hour and then a rapid cool down in a sterile environment. You can't get that with bucket tek, sure you might get lucky but thats all it is. This can be proven mathematically using Newtons model of cooling.
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nepter627
Infinite Being



Registered: 06/20/13
Posts: 257
Loc: NeptunE
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: Pasteurization Problems [Re: Citric]
#18775442 - 08/29/13 10:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Citric said: Oven is bad, as the outsides are pasteurized or cooked and the inside is just warm. I'd do the bucket tek instead.
TBH, if you are using coir, you can get away with a bucket tek, or even sterilizing has worked fine for me in the past! I as well as many old time growers used coir as a casing layer, and we always sterilized coir for a casing.
Would I recommend it? No. But you _can_ get away with it with coir. Manure? Please don't.
Years ago we use to use a pillow casing, submerged in water, inside of a cooler to pasteurize. It's really not rocket science.
the first time i did the bucket tek was my first run at bulk and i got trich which has kinda scared me to use the bucket tek again
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mycohumanity
Explorer


Registered: 06/21/13
Posts: 58
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Just turn the heat down when it reaches 135 degrees. let it climb in temp from there and let it go for 90 minutes just don't let it get below 140 for 1.5 hours.
-------------------- Stuff & Things
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tbagtag
Boomer Barron

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 1,432
Loc: Amsterdam
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Re: Pasteurization Problems [Re: nepter627]
#18776188 - 08/30/13 06:04 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
nepter627 said:
Quote:
Citric said: Oven is bad, as the outsides are pasteurized or cooked and the inside is just warm. I'd do the bucket tek instead.
TBH, if you are using coir, you can get away with a bucket tek, or even sterilizing has worked fine for me in the past! I as well as many old time growers used coir as a casing layer, and we always sterilized coir for a casing.
Would I recommend it? No. But you _can_ get away with it with coir. Manure? Please don't.
Years ago we use to use a pillow casing, submerged in water, inside of a cooler to pasteurize. It's really not rocket science.
the first time i did the bucket tek was my first run at bulk and i got trich which has kinda scared me to use the bucket tek again
People who get bucket tek are just lucky, there is no way mathematically possible you can get coir to hold the temp before it cools down. Coir is naturally contam resistant but that doesn't mean it can't.
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Stromrider
This must be the place



Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 7,326
Loc: Dept of know what I'm say...
Last seen: 32 minutes, 29 seconds
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Re: Pasteurization Problems [Re: tbagtag]
#18776207 - 08/30/13 06:17 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Guess I am lucky
I have done the bucket tek over and over with zero issues.
You want to call that luck I don't mind! I am a pretty lucky guy
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tbagtag
Boomer Barron

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 1,432
Loc: Amsterdam
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Re: Pasteurization Problems [Re: Stromrider]
#18776216 - 08/30/13 06:23 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
psillyshroomer said: Guess I am lucky
I have done the bucket tek over and over with zero issues.
You want to call that luck I don't mind! I am a pretty lucky guy 
Nothing wrong with luck, there is some needed in this hobby. But you can't argue the laws of physics and mathematics. For the bucket to properly pasteurize it would have to break the laws of thermodynamics and Newtons model of cooling. If that bucket were to do that it would not be sold for $3 at a hardware store.
I have a bag of wet coir that ive stored now for 8 months without a spec of mold. This was done with my pasteurization method. If it was poo that wouldn't likely happen. Coir is just very forgiving, that's why I stick with it.
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Stromrider
This must be the place



Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 7,326
Loc: Dept of know what I'm say...
Last seen: 32 minutes, 29 seconds
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Re: Pasteurization Problems [Re: tbagtag]
#18776222 - 08/30/13 06:30 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah I don't think I'll ever even bother trying poo. Coir is so easy and definitely performs well enough for me. What more could you ask for?
Something i have been curious about lately is why some people have success with the bucket TEK and some don't. There has to be a reason as I don't believe in luck. I colonize and fruit my tubs at 68 degrees. I may try to stick a tub in a back bedroom and close off the air vents so the temp gets on up closer to 80 and see what happens.
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tbagtag
Boomer Barron

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 1,432
Loc: Amsterdam
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Re: Pasteurization Problems [Re: Stromrider]
#18776267 - 08/30/13 06:59 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
psillyshroomer said: Yeah I don't think I'll ever even bother trying poo. Coir is so easy and definitely performs well enough for me. What more could you ask for?
Something i have been curious about lately is why some people have success with the bucket TEK and some don't. There has to be a reason as I don't believe in luck. I colonize and fruit my tubs at 68 degrees. I may try to stick a tub in a back bedroom and close off the air vents so the temp gets on up closer to 80 and see what happens.
We don't know their home conditions, what they did with that bucket or what crawled across that coir on the way to where they bought it. Too many variables, if you get the green then you will have to move on, cuz I heard it's a bitch to shake off.
And bacterial issues usually come from spawn. Good sterile procedures and good inoculation sources see to the reduced odds in that regard.
You've done multispore but don't believe in luck?
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nepter627
Infinite Being



Registered: 06/20/13
Posts: 257
Loc: NeptunE
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: Pasteurization Problems [Re: tbagtag]
#18776519 - 08/30/13 08:49 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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What are the main causes of trich?
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Quote:
CitizenErased said: I seriously can't pasteurize on my stove. I just wasted 19 jars of hydrated coir, etc because my stove likes to cause giant leaps in temperature out of nowhere. It takes insanely long to climb to 145, and as soon as does, it jumps up to 180 or so out of nowhere and refuses to drop. Has anyone else had this problem? Did you find a workaround?
...have you tried a different thermometer?
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CitizenErased
Stranger
Registered: 05/10/13
Posts: 246
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Yeah, I've tried a few. Any you would recommend in particular?
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zintor
Apprentice


Registered: 01/05/08
Posts: 77
Last seen: 6 years, 15 days
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I haven't had problems with mean green unless the temp is high... low temps and I haven't had a problem with it again so far.
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Mykes logos
homo nosce te ipsum


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1,108
Loc: FL
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Re: Pasteurization Problems [Re: zintor]
#18780439 - 08/31/13 07:09 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Citric said: Oven is bad, as the outsides are pasteurized or cooked and the inside is just warm. I'd do the bucket tek instead.
TBH, if you are using coir, you can get away with a bucket tek, or even sterilizing has worked fine for me in the past! I as well as many old time growers used coir as a casing layer, and we always sterilized coir for a casing.
Would I recommend it? No. But you _can_ get away with it with coir. Manure? Please don't.
Years ago we use to use a pillow casing, submerged in water, inside of a cooler to pasteurize. It's really not rocket science.
this^
and instead of opening the bucket's lid at 45-60 mins and stirring, I like to just pick it up and shake the shit out of the bucket. It's more of a workout, but you don't have to open the lid. Usually there will be a couple little chunks in there, but they're easy to break with one hand.
When I spawn to coir in a tub, tray, etc., I layer my spawn instead of hand mixing it and I do this very quickly inside a small closet with no air movement. Previously (about 20 mins to an hour before), I would spray a ton of lysol in the air (like before you'd work in a SAB, etc) and shut the door.
Also, keep your colonizing everything (jars, tubs, etc) at least 2 or 3 feet off the ground and NEVER move or touch them while they're colonizing. Jars you can play around with a little, but I never like to just in case I drop them or touch and rip off the SFD, etc.
Most plastic tubs are shitty, especially after drilling holes in them, so whenever you move them they literally suck in outside air (which would probably be your culprit if you see the green on top of your sub).
good luck.
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Pasteurization Problems [Re: Mykes logos]
#18781106 - 08/31/13 12:01 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Just properly pasteurize and you won't have to go through a paragraph's worth of modifications that don't actually fix the real issue with bucket tek: temperature too high and / or temperature uneven.
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HypnotoadCroaked
Retired, but will check MSGs

Registered: 01/05/13
Posts: 1,168
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I use a meat thermometer, and I pull my jars off when the needle moves @ 120 degrees F. The internal temps ALWAYS climb to 160 rather quick at that point. It took more than a few attempts to zero it in, but that was expected.
There are lots of variables that make pasteurization an "experience" for the individual. Different amounts of water in the pot, the amount of jars of substrate, and the heat of your range WILL require common sense and logic. There is no "Follow this exact and you will be fine". Proper pasteurization IS always better than the alternatives, even if the alternatives work. Frank's Tek on this is a great way to visualize and execute.
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Doc_D
Indifferent


Registered: 11/13/12
Posts: 350
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Quote:
CitizenErased said: I seriously can't pasteurize on my stove. I just wasted 19 jars of hydrated coir, etc because my stove likes to cause giant leaps in temperature out of nowhere. It takes insanely long to climb to 145, and as soon as does, it jumps up to 180 or so out of nowhere and refuses to drop. Has anyone else had this problem? Did you find a workaround?
As Frank said it’s worth trying a different thermometer, also it sounds to me like you have the heat on too high. I had similar problems and once I lowered the flame it stopped the erratic jumps in temperature, it may take longer to hit pasteurisation temperature this way but it’s worth the extra 10/15 minutes to do so.
Good Luck!!
-------------------- A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.
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HypnotoadCroaked
Retired, but will check MSGs

Registered: 01/05/13
Posts: 1,168
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Re: Pasteurization Problems [Re: Doc_D]
#18782129 - 08/31/13 05:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Doc_D said: it may take longer to hit pasteurization temperature this way but it’s worth the extra 10/15 minutes to do so.
EXACTLY! It is amazing how much energy (Heat)is in the water. Glass jars are a poor conductor of heat. Going slow gives you a chance to move before things get ruined. This is great advice!
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