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InvisibleEdame
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Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1,270
Loc: outta here
Bin Laden family 'flown out of US'
    #1877459 - 09/03/03 03:03 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

From SkyNews:

Quote:

FAMILY 'FLOWN OUT OF US'
Members of Osama bin Laden's family were allowed to fly out of the US shortly after the September 11 terror attacks, a senior official has said.

Even though American airspace had been shut down, the Bush administration allowed a jet to fly around the US picking up family members from 10 cities, including Los Angeles, Washington DC, Boston and Houston.

Some 140 high ranking Saudi officials were also on the plane.

The revelations come from former White House counter-terrorism chief Richard Clarke.

He said the Bush administration sanctioned the repatriation of the family in the immediate aftermath of the attacks.

'Repatriation approved'

"Somebody brought to us for approval the decision to let an airplane filled with Saudis, including members of the bin Laden family, leave the country," he told Vanity Fair magazine.

Mr Clarke said he checked with FBI officials, who gave the go ahead. "So I said, 'Fine, let it happen'."

He first asked the bureau to check that no one "inappropriate" was leaving.

"I have no idea if they did a good job. I'm not in any position to second guess the FBI," he said.

But Dale Watson, the FBI's former head of counter-terrorism, said the Saudis "were not subject to serious interviews or interrogations".

Permission to fly

Federal authorities gave permission for the plane to fly.

Tom Kinton, director of aviation at Boston's Logan airport, said: "We were in the midst of the worst terrorist act in history and here we were seeing an evacuation of the bin Ladens! ... I wanted to go the highest levels in Washington."

Prince Bandar bin Sultan, the Saudi ambassador to the US who is said to have organised the exodus, met President George Bush on September 13, 2001, two days after the terror attacks.

It is not known if they discussed the repatriation plan.

'No secret flights'

The White House has declined to comment on the claims, but sources told Vanity Fair the Bush administration was confident no secret flights took place.

Mr Clarke, who headed the Counter-terrorism Security Group of the National Security Council, said he did not recall who requested approval for the flights, but believes it was either the FBI or the State Department.

Special Agent John Iannarelli, the FBI's spokesman on counter-terrorism activities, said: "I can say unequivocally that the FBI had no role in facilitating these flights one way or another."

The wealthy bin Laden family broke ties with bin Laden years before the September 11 strikes.




--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Registered: 10/10/02
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Re: Bin Laden family 'flown out of US' [Re: Edame]
    #1877484 - 09/03/03 03:12 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

The Bin Laden family disowned Osama long ago.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: Bin Laden family 'flown out of US' [Re: silversoul7]
    #1877517 - 09/03/03 03:22 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I know, it mentions it at the end of the article, but I still think it seems highly suspicious.


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
Re: Bin Laden family 'flown out of US' [Re: Edame]
    #1877531 - 09/03/03 03:25 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I thought this was common knowledge by now. But i dont think it was really anything wrong with it.

On a related note my parents own a fruit grove next to one owned by a very nice arab couple. They actually left the us for saudi the say before 9/11 for some mundane thing. They came back sometime later and needless say the fbi was knocking at their door. It was intresting


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I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Bin Laden family 'flown out of US' [Re: Edame]
    #1877532 - 09/03/03 03:25 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Why? They wanted to protect them from being murdered by mobs most likely. I remember Osama's brother leaving Harvard after it happened. The administration's refusal to crack down on the Saudi's pisses me off in a big way though.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,234
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Re: Bin Laden family 'flown out of US' [Re: Edame]
    #1877607 - 09/03/03 03:41 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Incredibly old news.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
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Re: Bin Laden family 'flown out of US' [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1877623 - 09/03/03 03:44 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Well cracking down on saudi's would be labeled as racial profileing and of course racism is very bad and not allowed in the American government, but afirmitative action thats fine though


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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Offlinewingnutx
Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,268
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Re: Bin Laden family 'flown out of US' [Re: Edame]
    #1877786 - 09/03/03 04:20 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)



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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Bin Laden family 'flown out of US' [Re: wingnutx]
    #1877940 - 09/03/03 04:58 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Ah, very nice. His brother was at Harvard I believe. I also believe he left or was considering it at the time.


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: Bin Laden family 'flown out of US' [Re: wingnutx]
    #1878330 - 09/03/03 07:04 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

The article that you posted refers to quite specific claims made by Michael Moore, you'll notice that the language in the article I posted is not as deliberate.

Sorry if this is old news to some people. I'd seen this referred to in other posts, but hadn't read an article on it myself (especially one where the claims are made by an ex-National Security Council official).

I just find it funny that the US let the Bin Ladens get the hell out of dodge so quickly with so little fuss, while the peons get to stand in line and get strip-searched and have their civil liberties eroded by crap like the PATRIOT act.


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Bin Laden family 'flown out of US' [Re: Edame]
    #1878515 - 09/03/03 07:52 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Yep, that is why we should use racial profiling at airports.


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InvisibleEdame
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Registered: 01/14/03
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Loc: outta here
Re: Bin Laden family 'flown out of US' [Re: Edame]
    #1883885 - 09/05/03 04:00 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Update: I found an article in a blog that says Snopes.com have changed the article (it now says it's been updated on 4th Sep, but doesn't say what they have changed). A quick glance seems to show that they have taken out any reference to Michael Moore, and the whole article appears more cautious.

Quote:

Update: Snopes stands by their initial debunking, because--if I'm getting this right--while bin Laden family members were quickly scooped up by the FBI, and flown around in the U.S. during the air lockdown, they didn't actually leave the country until the restrictions were lifted.

Okay, I've got a meeting and I really have to run, but I'll try to put this as simply as possible: the point is not that those lucky bin Ladens got to fly in airplanes when the rest of us were grounded. The point is that the FBI apparently went out of its way to get them rounded up, contained, and--yes--out of the country as soon as possible, and people want to know why.

Second update: while I was off trying to expand the Tom Tomorrow empire today, Snopes updated again--the story, which was listed as unambiguously "false" this morning is now, if you'll forgive a paraphrase, "kinda false, kinda true." Which is a step in the right direction. One thought, though: I vaguely remember reading this page back when it first went up, and if memory serves, the authors were rather derisive of Michael Moore at the time. I can't verify this, because it's no longer on the page, and there's no "edited to avoid a libel suit and/or personal embarassment" disclaimer. There's no law that says you have to make a note of it every time you update a page, but a site whose purpose is to set the record straight sets a very high bar for itself on matters of honesty and openess.

Third update: Google caches make it hard to rewrite history. In fairness to Snopes, Michael's claim that the FBI was not allowed to interrogate the Saudis is not quite accurate, though if you read the Times article linked above, the interrogations are described as perfunctory at best. In any case, Snopes' original closing paragraph seems really over the top in retrospect:

Some folks play fast and loose with the facts when they've an axe to grind, however, and in Moore's case his axe is "the dastardly Republicans and how they're responsible for every ill ever visited upon the USA." In this case, inventing a bin Laden jet that secretly flew out of the country while the rest of us were barred from the skies, and peopling it with folks who were spirited out of the FBI's grasp by a U.S. president intent upon paying back some unnamed (but darkly hinted at) favor, is a handy way of reinforcing the stereotype of Republicans as callous and greedy politicians whose paramount values involve money, not people.

We now know the Saudis were spirited into protective custody, if not out of the country, within a few days of 9/11, and that this was done with White House approval. I'd say neither Michael nor Snopes got the story 100% right, but Michael was a hell of a lot closer in his cynicism than Snopes was in their faux-objectivity.

One more thought: Michael's larger point, of course, is that there's clearly some connection between the Saudis and 9/11, and that the Bush family has heavy ties to the Saudis. Even most warbloggers acknowledge the first half of that, and the second half is simply a matter of public record. You can draw different conclusions from these two facts, but it's increasingly difficult to dispute either.

Okay, one further update: I can't help but contrast the final paragraph of the original version of the page (above) with the current version:

This page should be read for what it is: an analysis of some of the commonly-circulated claims about a complex issue (many of which are factually correct or misleading), not a denial of the larger arc of the story. Clearly bin Laden family members were indeed allowed to leave the U.S., with government approval and assistance, shortly after the September 11 attacks (an event which was reported in major newspapers within days of its occurrence), but issues such as whether the decision to let them leave was appropriate are subjective political issues outside the scope of this page.

See, when Michael says it, he's a crazy truth-distorting axe-grinder. But when much of what he said turns out to be true, suddenly it's "subjective political issues outside of the scope of this page."

Uh huh.




--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


Edited by Edame (09/05/03 04:01 AM)


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