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OfflineHudson
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Re: Who is worse? America or Nazi Gemany? [Re: koods]
    #18771324 - 08/28/13 11:56 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

To all of those who think that the Nazis are worse because they killed people, think again the US had a Eugenics program conducting experiments up until the 60's. The sad majority of Americans are in denial about their country.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Who is worse? America or Nazi Gemany? [Re: Masked]
    #18771331 - 08/28/13 11:58 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

'Sall good, this has been a fun thread. :highfive:

I really hope we didn't traumatize koods too badly, though. :thisisheavyman:


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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InvisibleMasked
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Re: Who is worse? America or Nazi Gemany? [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #18771342 - 08/29/13 12:02 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
'Sall good, this has been a fun thread. :highfive:

I really hope we didn't traumatize koods too badly, though. :thisisheavyman:




:lol: perfect emoticon use!

yeah, it was entertaining.  I like voicing unpopular opinions :evil:

and I like banter.  But still, I might have got carried away.  So peace :peace:


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Edited by Masked (08/29/13 12:02 AM)


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Who is worse? America or Nazi Gemany? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #18771351 - 08/29/13 12:05 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Hudson said:
To all of those who think that the Nazis are worse because they killed people, think again the US had a Eugenics program conducting experiments up until the 60's. The sad majority of Americans are in denial about their country.




Conducting small scale covert experiments vs. conducting overt mass executions. Hmmm. :shrug:

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
'Sall good, this has been a fun thread. :highfive:

I really hope we didn't traumatize koods too badly, though. :thisisheavyman:



:crazy2: :wow::uhoh: :willynilly:


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Who is worse? America or Nazi Gemany? [Re: koods]
    #18771371 - 08/29/13 12:11 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

DON'T PANIC, KOODS! THE MEN IN WHITE COATS ARE COMING!  :sagan:


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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Offlinekoods
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Re: Who is worse? America or Nazi Gemany? [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #18771378 - 08/29/13 12:15 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
DON'T PANIC, KOODS! THE MEN IN WHITE COATS ARE COMING!  :sagan:




Oh great. To become a subject in some secret government eugenics program, no doubt.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleMasked
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Re: Who is worse? America or Nazi Gemany? [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #18771379 - 08/29/13 12:15 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)



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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Who is worse? America or Nazi Gemany? [Re: koods]
    #18771388 - 08/29/13 12:18 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

BlindSophist said:
DON'T PANIC, KOODS! THE MEN IN WHITE COATS ARE COMING!  :sagan:




Oh great. To become a subject in some secret government eugenics program, no doubt.




You shall be the father of a thousand nations...  :awepuke:


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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InvisibleApollyphelion Happy Birthday!
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Re: Who is worse? America or Nazi Gemany? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #18771589 - 08/29/13 01:46 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I haven't read the thread all the way
but Holocaust Deniers are the mental scum of the earth.
This is just insurance in case there are any in this thread.


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Offlinemushroomfred
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Re: Who is worse? America or Nazi Gemany? [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #18771702 - 08/29/13 02:58 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Nazis operated with brute force, America operates with stealth.

Instead of using tanks to expand the empire (well they do...), USA uses corporations to take over the rest of the world. Much easier via corporate-imperialism.

They don't use labor camps, they have jails to manufacture goods (paying few cents an hour to the prisoners - highest incarceration rate in the world)

Cops are probably just about the same...

Propaganda is more advanced in America, I think they learned from Goebbels.

Not sure what the death toll is if you counted in the middle east/arab states, considering the ongoing cancer/birth defect problems in Iraq. 

...???


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Edited by mushroomfred (08/29/13 03:04 AM)


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OfflineBeefcakemighty
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Re: Who is worse? America or Nazi Gemany? [Re: mushroomfred]
    #18774230 - 08/29/13 05:31 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Eugenics, the social movement claiming to improve the genetic features of human populations through selective breeding and sterilization, based on the idea that it is possible to distinguish between superior and inferior elements of society, played a significant role in the history and culture of the United States prior to its involvement in World War II.
Eugenics was practised in the United States many years before eugenics programs in Nazi Germany and actually, U.S. programs provided much of the inspiration for the latter.

Mass killings occurred under some Communist regimes during the twentieth century with an estimated death toll numbering between 85 and 100 million. Scholarship focuses on the causes of mass killings in single societies, though some claims of common causes for mass killings have been made. Some higher estimates of mass killings include not only mass murders or executions that took place during the elimination of political opponents, civil wars, terror campaigns, and land reforms, but also lives lost due to war, famine, disease, and exhaustion in labor camps. There are scholars who believe that government policies and mistakes in management contributed to these calamities, and, based on that conclusion combine all these deaths under the categories "mass killings", democide, politicide, "classicide", or loosely defined genocide. According to these scholars, the total death toll of the mass killings defined in this way amounts to many tens of millions; however, the validity of this approach is questioned by other scholars.


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"Hospitality is my house, That a traveler shall share, Warm meal on a hearth And my last horn of mead"


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Who is worse? America or Nazi Gemany? [Re: Beefcakemighty]
    #18774332 - 08/29/13 05:51 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Beefcakemighty said:
Eugenics, the social movement claiming to improve the genetic features of human populations through selective breeding and sterilization, based on the idea that it is possible to distinguish between superior and inferior elements of society, played a significant role in the history and culture of the United States prior to its involvement in World War II.
Eugenics was practised in the United States many years before eugenics programs in Nazi Germany and actually, U.S. programs provided much of the inspiration for the latter.




ORLY?  Link please.


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Who is worse? America or Nazi Gemany? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18774368 - 08/29/13 06:01 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Beefcakemighty said:
Eugenics, the social movement claiming to improve the genetic features of human populations through selective breeding and sterilization, based on the idea that it is possible to distinguish between superior and inferior elements of society, played a significant role in the history and culture of the United States prior to its involvement in World War II.
Eugenics was practised in the United States many years before eugenics programs in Nazi Germany and actually, U.S. programs provided much of the inspiration for the latter.




ORLY?  Link please.




It is true, but Hitlers T4 experiments carried out eugenics in a much farther range then those who lobbied congress for sterilization laws.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Who is worse? America or Nazi Gemany? [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #18774370 - 08/29/13 06:02 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)



"60,000 Reichsmark is what this person suffering from a hereditary defect costs the People's community during his lifetime. Fellow citizen, that is your money too


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Who is worse? America or Nazi Gemany? [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #18774394 - 08/29/13 06:10 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Methinks some people do not know what "significant" means.


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Who is worse? America or Nazi Gemany? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18774426 - 08/29/13 06:20 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Methinks some people do not know what "significant" means.




Yea, that's the word I was looking for.


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Who is worse? America or Nazi Gemany? [Re: Beefcakemighty]
    #18774438 - 08/29/13 06:25 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Ya know, the thing with Stalin, is under him, he had this culture of denunciation, the only sure fire way to stay out of the purge was to denounce those close to you. Funny how we never think of Kuropaty, or Katyn forest. They never seem to get the same historical precedence that Nazi atrocities do.


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OfflineBeefcakemighty
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Re: Who is worse? America or Nazi Gemany? [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #18776843 - 08/30/13 10:53 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Japanese American internment was the World War II internment in "War Relocation Camps" of about 110,000 people of Japanese heritage who lived on the Pacific coast of the United States. The U.S. government ordered the internment in 1942, shortly after Imperial Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor. The internment of Japanese Americans was applied unequally as a geographic matter: all who lived on the West Coast were interned, while in Hawaii, where 150,000-plus Japanese Americans comprised over one-third of the population, only 1,200 to 1,800 were interned. Sixty-two percent of the internees were American citizens.


Non-military advocates for exclusion, removal, and detention

Internment was popular among many white farmers who resented the Japanese American farmers. "White American farmers admitted that their self-interest required removal of the Japanese." These individuals saw internment as a convenient means of uprooting their Japanese American competitors. Austin E. Anson, managing secretary of the Salinas Vegetable Grower-Shipper Association, told the Saturday Evening Post in 1942:
"We're charged with wanting to get rid of the Japs for selfish reasons. We do. It's a question of whether the white man lives on the Pacific Coast or the brown men. They came into this valley to work, and they stayed to take over... If all the Japs were removed tomorrow, we'd never miss them in two weeks, because the white farmers can take over and produce everything the Jap grows. And we do not want them back when the war ends, either."

The Roberts Commission Report, prepared at President Franklin D. Roosevelt's request, has been cited as an example of the fear and prejudice informing the thinking behind the internment program. The Report sought to link Japanese Americans with espionage activity, and to associate them with the bombing of Pearl Harbor. Columnist Henry McLemore reflected growing public sentiment fueled by this report:
"I am for the immediate removal of every Japanese on the West Coast to a point deep in the interior. I don't mean a nice part of the interior either. Herd 'em up, pack 'em off and give 'em the inside room in the badlands... Personally, I hate the Japanese. And that goes for all of them."

Other California newspapers also embraced this view. According to a Los Angeles Times editorial,
"A viper is nonetheless a viper wherever the egg is hatched.... So, a Japanese American born of Japanese parents, nurtured upon Japanese traditions, living in a transplanted Japanese atmosphere... notwithstanding his nominal brand of accidental citizenship almost inevitably and with the rarest exceptions grows up to be a Japanese, and not an American.... Thus, while it might cause injustice to a few to treat them all as potential enemies, I cannot escape the conclusion... that such treatment... should be accorded to each and all of them while we are at war with their race."

State politicians joined the bandwagon that was embraced by Leland Ford of Los Angeles, who demanded that "all Japanese, whether citizens or not, be placed in [inland] concentration camps." Internment of Japanese Americans, who provided critical agricultural labor on the West Coast, created a labor shortage, which was exacerbated by the induction of many American laborers into the Armed Forces. This vacuum precipitated a mass immigration of Mexican workers into the United States to fill these jobs, minorly under the banner of what became known as the Bracero Program. Many Japanese internees were even temporarily released from their camps – for instance, to harvest Western beet crops – to address this wartime labor shortage.

Just short of mass killing. Otherwise just like when Nazi Germany first  went after jews.


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"Hospitality is my house, That a traveler shall share, Warm meal on a hearth And my last horn of mead"


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Who is worse? America or Nazi Gemany? [Re: Beefcakemighty] * 1
    #18776881 - 08/30/13 11:02 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Concentration camps were first used the by the British during the Boer war in southern Africa.


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OfflineLord_McLovin
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Re: Who is worse? America or Nazi Gemany? [Re: mellowparty]
    #18777001 - 08/30/13 11:36 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I am a German who is rather well acquainted with both the third Reich and the US justice problem. I like your analogy between the burning of the Reichstag and 9/11 and the political changes it triggered, but I do not think you can compare the Nazi terror and the Holocaust with what is going on in the US today.

However, I would definitely agree with you that the US has turned to fascism and is essentially a police state nowadays. One of the big driving forces of this was de facto the war on drugs, whose roots do lie in rascism, religious fanaticism and the thought that political oppression is a necessary tool for keeping society from destroying itself.

The amount of people incarcerated in the US is insane and the two party system makes sure that true change coming from the people is very, very difficult to achieve to say the least. The spying going on in the US today is far beyond what the Nazis ever dreamt of. Police is militarized, authoritarian and quick to pull the trigger. The masses of the people live in (relative) poverty while the elite becomes richer and richer...

Something to keep in mind: Everything the Nazis did was legal!


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