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nuentoter
conduit



Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 2,721
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: gun debate... 9mm [Re: Asante]
#18768648 - 08/28/13 02:22 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I am not a .22 defender and I agree the .45 will be more deadly more often, I guess I didn't explain my view properly, my point was that shot placement and comfort level with the gun is 10x more important than caliber. I personally would pick up my .22lr over any .45 because I know I can punch out quarters at 50yrds with my .22lr. There is a reason you cannot hunt dear legally in maine with a .22 but can with a .22mag or above. Personally i would pick up a .38 special or 357mag over a 9mm anyday as well.
Honestly though when it comes to home defense nothing compares with mossberg 12ga with pistol grip. and 3 1/2" #4 goose shot.
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The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
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Doctor Sponge
He's off on a tangent



Registered: 05/03/12
Posts: 11,795
Loc: the desert
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Re: gun debate... 9mm [Re: nuentoter]
#18768661 - 08/28/13 02:26 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I like the 9mm +p versions can propel a 124 grain bullet @1200 fps+ id rather have a 9mm than a 38special although the 38 is a nice round although its almost 100% exclusive to revolvers limiting capacity
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current
Stranger

Registered: 08/26/13
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: gun debate... 9mm [Re: current]
#18769945 - 08/28/13 07:03 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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.22 magnum has more energy and penetration than .38 special.
plus you can have higher capacity and / or more concealability
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something super extreme
NIGGA YOU A FUCK NIGGA!


Registered: 10/29/12
Posts: 17,397
Loc: TURNT UP!
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Re: gun debate... 9mm [Re: current]
#18769968 - 08/28/13 07:09 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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This entire thread is stupid. "Stopping power", lol.
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current
Stranger

Registered: 08/26/13
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flame much
didnt have to post
stopping power is a house hold term. i was trying to keep it as simple as possible...
it was a basic comparison with simple thoughts.
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Deekay



Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 3,220
Loc:
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Re: gun debate... 9mm [Re: Deekay]
#18772968 - 08/29/13 12:51 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deekay said: Read this
I hate to quote myself, but this is a report from an FBI Firearms training unit. It's from 1989, but it's also relevant seeing as calibers, hollow points, and human physiology have not differed all that much since 1990. It's an interesting read so here's a few quotes from it. Anecdotal evidence and 'common sense' theories aside, this is (as it's title implies) an objective look at handgun wounding factors and effectiveness.
Quote:
(1) Penetration. The tissue through which the projectile passes, and which it disrupts or destroys. (2) Permanent Cavity. The volume of space once occupied by tissue that has been destroyed by the passage of the projectile. This is a function of penetration and the frontal area of the projectile. Quite simply, it is the hole left by the passage of the bullet. (3) Temporary Cavity. The expansion of the permanent cavity by stretching due to the transfer of kinetic energy during the projectile’s passage. (4) Fragmentation. Projectile pieces or secondary fragments of bone which are impelled outward from the permanent cavity and may sever muscle tissues, blood vessels, etc., apart from the permanent cavity. 7, 8 Fragmentation is not necessarily present in every projectile wound. It may, or may not, occur and can be considered a secondary effect. 9
Quote:
THE HUMAN TARGET With the exceptions of hits to the brain or upper spinal cord, the concept of reliable and reproducible immediate incapacitation of the human target by gunshot wounds to the torso is a myth. 27 The human target is a complex and durable one. A wide variety of psychological, physical, and physiological factors exist, all of them pertinent to the probability of incapacitation. However, except for the location of the wound and the amount of tissue destroyed, none of the factors are within the control of the law enforcement officer.
Quote:
AMMUNITION SELECTION CRITERIA The critical wounding components for handgun ammunition, in order of importance, are penetration and permanent cavity . 33 The bullet must penetrate sufficiently to pass through vital organs and be able to do so from less than optimal angles. For example, a shot from the side through an arm must penetrate at least 10-12 inches to pass through the heart. A bullet fired from the front through the abdomen must penetrate about 7 inches in a slender adult just to reach the major blood vessels in the back of the abdominal cavity. Penetration must be sufficiently deep to reach and pass through vital organs, and the permanent cavity must be large enough to maximize tissue destruction and consequent hemorrhaging.
....
It is essential to bear in mind that the single most critical factor remains penetration. While penetration up to 18 inches is preferable, a handgun bullet MUST reliably penetrate 12 inches of soft body tissue at a minimum, regardless of whether it expands or not. If the bullet does not reliably penetrate to these depths, it is not an effective bullet for law enforcement use. 36
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Konyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
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Re: gun debate... 9mm [Re: Deekay]
#18772977 - 08/29/13 12:54 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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hmmm.
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Doctor Sponge
He's off on a tangent



Registered: 05/03/12
Posts: 11,795
Loc: the desert
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Re: gun debate... 9mm [Re: Konyap]
#18772990 - 08/29/13 12:57 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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exactly.the fuckin 22 caliber bullet doesn't produce a lethal temporary wound cavity,lacks kinetic energy,yada yada THATS WHY NO AGENCY ON EARTH USES THE 22
laughable
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Konyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
Loc: Planet Piss
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Quote:
learning sponge said: exactly.the fuckin 22 caliber bullet doesn't produce a lethal temporary wound cavity,lacks kinetic energy,yada yada THATS WHY NO AGENCY ON EARTH USES THE 22
laughable
ie yi yi
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gzuf
٩(̾๏̮̮̃̾๏̃̾)۶



Registered: 07/13/09
Posts: 6,535
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Quote:
sVs said: This entire thread is stupid. "Stopping power", lol.
Haha, this is what I was thinking, like personally any type of bullet would have enough stopping power for me... As in I'd stop and drop to the ground screaming "HELP I'VE BEEN SHOT"
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Konyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
Loc: Planet Piss
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Re: gun debate... 9mm [Re: gzuf]
#18773007 - 08/29/13 01:01 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I saw this spanish rapper get shot the other day, straight up just dropped the mic and fell down before anyone knew what was going on.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: gun debate... 9mm [Re: current]
#18773334 - 08/29/13 02:17 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
current said:
yup
so by this reasoning, the .22lris far superior because it has almost no recoil and follow up shots will be more consistent
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: gun debate... 9mm [Re: Deekay]
#18773377 - 08/29/13 02:26 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deekay said:
Quote:
Deekay said: Read this
I hate to quote myself, but this is a report from an FBI Firearms training unit. It's from 1989, but it's also relevant seeing as calibers, hollow points, and human physiology have not differed all that much since 1990. It's an interesting read so here's a few quotes from it. Anecdotal evidence and 'common sense' theories aside, this is (as it's title implies) an objective look at handgun wounding factors and effectiveness.
Quote:
(1) Penetration. The tissue through which the projectile passes, and which it disrupts or destroys. (2) Permanent Cavity. The volume of space once occupied by tissue that has been destroyed by the passage of the projectile. This is a function of penetration and the frontal area of the projectile. Quite simply, it is the hole left by the passage of the bullet. (3) Temporary Cavity. The expansion of the permanent cavity by stretching due to the transfer of kinetic energy during the projectile’s passage. (4) Fragmentation. Projectile pieces or secondary fragments of bone which are impelled outward from the permanent cavity and may sever muscle tissues, blood vessels, etc., apart from the permanent cavity. 7, 8 Fragmentation is not necessarily present in every projectile wound. It may, or may not, occur and can be considered a secondary effect. 9
Quote:
THE HUMAN TARGET With the exceptions of hits to the brain or upper spinal cord, the concept of reliable and reproducible immediate incapacitation of the human target by gunshot wounds to the torso is a myth. 27 The human target is a complex and durable one. A wide variety of psychological, physical, and physiological factors exist, all of them pertinent to the probability of incapacitation. However, except for the location of the wound and the amount of tissue destroyed, none of the factors are within the control of the law enforcement officer.
Quote:
AMMUNITION SELECTION CRITERIA The critical wounding components for handgun ammunition, in order of importance, are penetration and permanent cavity . 33 The bullet must penetrate sufficiently to pass through vital organs and be able to do so from less than optimal angles. For example, a shot from the side through an arm must penetrate at least 10-12 inches to pass through the heart. A bullet fired from the front through the abdomen must penetrate about 7 inches in a slender adult just to reach the major blood vessels in the back of the abdominal cavity. Penetration must be sufficiently deep to reach and pass through vital organs, and the permanent cavity must be large enough to maximize tissue destruction and consequent hemorrhaging.
....
It is essential to bear in mind that the single most critical factor remains penetration. While penetration up to 18 inches is preferable, a handgun bullet MUST reliably penetrate 12 inches of soft body tissue at a minimum, regardless of whether it expands or not. If the bullet does not reliably penetrate to these depths, it is not an effective bullet for law enforcement use. 36
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2931390/posts
Quote:
Tests have revealed 16"-24" of penetration into ballistic gelatin at 200 meters using the Aguila SSS 60-grain bullet.
http://www.survivalmonkey.com/threads/lethality-of-the-22-lr-standard-velocity-round.9361/#post-75834
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current
Stranger

Registered: 08/26/13
Posts: 274
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
current said:
yup
so by this reasoning, the .22lris far superior because it has almost no recoil and follow up shots will be more consistent
nope cause the 22 doesnt have any STOPPING POWER!!!
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