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Offlinenuentoter
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Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 2,721
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Re: gun debate... 9mm [Re: Asante]
    #18768648 - 08/28/13 02:22 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I am not a .22 defender and I agree the .45 will be more deadly more often, I guess I didn't explain my view properly, my point was that shot placement and comfort level with the gun is 10x more important than caliber. I personally would pick up my .22lr over any .45 because I know I can punch out quarters at 50yrds with my .22lr.  There is a reason you cannot hunt dear legally in maine with a .22 but can with a .22mag or above.  Personally i would pick up a .38 special or 357mag over a 9mm anyday as well.

Honestly though when it comes to home defense nothing compares with mossberg 12ga with pistol grip. and 3 1/2" #4 goose shot.


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InvisibleDoctor Sponge
He's off on a tangent
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Registered: 05/03/12
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Re: gun debate... 9mm [Re: nuentoter]
    #18768661 - 08/28/13 02:26 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I like the 9mm
+p versions can propel a 124 grain bullet @1200 fps+
id rather have a 9mm than a 38special although the 38 is a nice round although its almost 100% exclusive to revolvers limiting capacity


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Offlinecurrent
Stranger

Registered: 08/26/13
Posts: 274
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: gun debate... 9mm [Re: Doctor Sponge]
    #18769863 - 08/28/13 06:48 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)



yup


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InvisibleShins
Fun guy
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Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
Re: gun debate... 9mm [Re: current]
    #18769945 - 08/28/13 07:03 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

.22 magnum has more energy and penetration than .38 special.

plus you can have higher capacity and / or more concealability


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Invisiblesomething super extreme
NIGGA YOU A FUCK NIGGA!
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Registered: 10/29/12
Posts: 17,397
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Re: gun debate... 9mm [Re: current]
    #18769968 - 08/28/13 07:09 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

This entire thread is stupid.
"Stopping power", lol.


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Offlinecurrent
Stranger

Registered: 08/26/13
Posts: 274
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: gun debate... 9mm [Re: something super extreme]
    #18769993 - 08/28/13 07:15 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

flame much

didnt have to post

stopping power is a house hold term. i was trying to keep it as simple as possible...

it was a basic comparison with simple thoughts.


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OfflineDeekay
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Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 3,220
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Re: gun debate... 9mm [Re: Deekay]
    #18772968 - 08/29/13 12:51 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Deekay said:
Read this





I hate to quote myself, but this is a report from an FBI Firearms training unit. It's from 1989, but it's also relevant seeing as calibers, hollow points, and human physiology have not differed all that much since 1990. It's an interesting read so here's a few quotes from it. Anecdotal evidence and 'common sense' theories aside, this is (as it's title implies) an objective look at handgun wounding factors and effectiveness.

Quote:

(1) Penetration. The tissue through which the projectile passes, and which it disrupts or
destroys.
(2) Permanent Cavity. The volume of space once occupied by tissue that has been
destroyed by the passage of the projectile. This is a function of penetration and the frontal
area of the projectile. Quite simply, it is the hole left by the passage of the bullet.
(3) Temporary Cavity. The expansion of the permanent cavity by stretching due to the
transfer of kinetic energy during the projectile’s passage.
(4) Fragmentation. Projectile pieces or secondary fragments of bone which are impelled
outward from the permanent cavity and may sever muscle tissues, blood vessels, etc.,
apart from the permanent cavity.
7, 8
Fragmentation is not necessarily present in every
projectile wound. It may, or may not, occur and can be considered a secondary effect.
9





Quote:

THE HUMAN TARGET
With the exceptions of hits to the brain or upper spinal cord, the concept of reliable and
reproducible immediate incapacitation of the human target by gunshot wounds to the torso is a myth.
27
The human target is a complex and durable one. A wide variety of psychological, physical, and
physiological factors exist, all of them pertinent to the probability of incapacitation. However, except for
the location of the wound and the amount of tissue destroyed, none of the factors are within the control of
the law enforcement officer.




Quote:

AMMUNITION SELECTION CRITERIA
The critical wounding components for handgun ammunition, in order of importance, are
penetration
and permanent cavity
.
33
The bullet must penetrate sufficiently to pass through vital organs
and be able to do so from less than optimal angles. For example, a shot from the side through an arm must
penetrate at least 10-12 inches to pass through the heart. A bullet fired from the front through the
abdomen must penetrate about 7 inches in a slender adult just to reach the major blood vessels in the back
of the abdominal cavity. Penetration must be sufficiently deep to reach and pass through vital organs, and
the permanent cavity must be large enough to maximize tissue destruction and consequent hemorrhaging.

....

It is essential to bear in mind that the single most critical factor remains penetration. While
penetration up to 18 inches is preferable, a handgun bullet MUST
reliably penetrate 12 inches of soft
body tissue at a minimum, regardless of whether it expands or not. If the bullet does not reliably penetrate
to these depths, it is not an effective bullet for law enforcement use.
36




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OfflineKonyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
Loc: Planet Piss
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: gun debate... 9mm [Re: Deekay]
    #18772977 - 08/29/13 12:54 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

hmmm.


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InvisibleDoctor Sponge
He's off on a tangent
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Registered: 05/03/12
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Re: gun debate... 9mm [Re: Konyap]
    #18772990 - 08/29/13 12:57 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

exactly.the fuckin 22 caliber bullet doesn't produce a lethal temporary wound cavity,lacks kinetic energy,yada yada
THATS WHY NO AGENCY ON EARTH USES THE 22

laughable:rolleyes:


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OfflineKonyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
Loc: Planet Piss
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: gun debate... 9mm [Re: Doctor Sponge]
    #18772994 - 08/29/13 12:58 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

learning sponge said:
exactly.the fuckin 22 caliber bullet doesn't produce a lethal temporary wound cavity,lacks kinetic energy,yada yada
THATS WHY NO AGENCY ON EARTH USES THE 22

laughable:rolleyes:




ie yi yi


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Invisiblegzuf
٩(̾๏̮̮̃̾๏̃̾)۶
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/09
Posts: 6,535
Re: gun debate... 9mm [Re: something super extreme]
    #18772996 - 08/29/13 12:58 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

sVs said:
This entire thread is stupid.
"Stopping power", lol.




Haha, this is what I was thinking, like personally any type of bullet would have enough stopping power for me... As in I'd stop and drop to the ground screaming "HELP I'VE BEEN SHOT"


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OfflineKonyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
Loc: Planet Piss
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: gun debate... 9mm [Re: gzuf]
    #18773007 - 08/29/13 01:01 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I saw this spanish rapper get shot the other day, straight up just dropped the mic and fell down before anyone knew what was going on.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: gun debate... 9mm [Re: current]
    #18773334 - 08/29/13 02:17 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

current said:


yup





so by this reasoning, the .22lris far superior because it has almost no
recoil and follow up shots will be more consistent


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: gun debate... 9mm [Re: Deekay]
    #18773377 - 08/29/13 02:26 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Deekay said:
Quote:

Deekay said:
Read this





I hate to quote myself, but this is a report from an FBI Firearms training unit. It's from 1989, but it's also relevant seeing as calibers, hollow points, and human physiology have not differed all that much since 1990. It's an interesting read so here's a few quotes from it. Anecdotal evidence and 'common sense' theories aside, this is (as it's title implies) an objective look at handgun wounding factors and effectiveness.

Quote:

(1) Penetration. The tissue through which the projectile passes, and which it disrupts or
destroys.
(2) Permanent Cavity. The volume of space once occupied by tissue that has been
destroyed by the passage of the projectile. This is a function of penetration and the frontal
area of the projectile. Quite simply, it is the hole left by the passage of the bullet.
(3) Temporary Cavity. The expansion of the permanent cavity by stretching due to the
transfer of kinetic energy during the projectile’s passage.
(4) Fragmentation. Projectile pieces or secondary fragments of bone which are impelled
outward from the permanent cavity and may sever muscle tissues, blood vessels, etc.,
apart from the permanent cavity.
7, 8
Fragmentation is not necessarily present in every
projectile wound. It may, or may not, occur and can be considered a secondary effect.
9





Quote:

THE HUMAN TARGET
With the exceptions of hits to the brain or upper spinal cord, the concept of reliable and
reproducible immediate incapacitation of the human target by gunshot wounds to the torso is a myth.
27
The human target is a complex and durable one. A wide variety of psychological, physical, and
physiological factors exist, all of them pertinent to the probability of incapacitation. However, except for
the location of the wound and the amount of tissue destroyed, none of the factors are within the control of
the law enforcement officer.




Quote:

AMMUNITION SELECTION CRITERIA
The critical wounding components for handgun ammunition, in order of importance, are
penetration
and permanent cavity
.
33
The bullet must penetrate sufficiently to pass through vital organs
and be able to do so from less than optimal angles. For example, a shot from the side through an arm must
penetrate at least 10-12 inches to pass through the heart. A bullet fired from the front through the
abdomen must penetrate about 7 inches in a slender adult just to reach the major blood vessels in the back
of the abdominal cavity. Penetration must be sufficiently deep to reach and pass through vital organs, and
the permanent cavity must be large enough to maximize tissue destruction and consequent hemorrhaging.

....

It is essential to bear in mind that the single most critical factor remains penetration. While
penetration up to 18 inches is preferable, a handgun bullet MUST
reliably penetrate 12 inches of soft
body tissue at a minimum, regardless of whether it expands or not. If the bullet does not reliably penetrate
to these depths, it is not an effective bullet for law enforcement use.
36







http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2931390/posts
Quote:

Tests have revealed 16"-24" of penetration into ballistic gelatin at 200 meters using the Aguila SSS 60-grain bullet.




http://www.survivalmonkey.com/threads/lethality-of-the-22-lr-standard-velocity-round.9361/#post-75834


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Offlinecurrent
Stranger

Registered: 08/26/13
Posts: 274
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: gun debate... 9mm [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #18773440 - 08/29/13 02:42 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

current said:


yup





so by this reasoning, the .22lris far superior because it has almost no
recoil and follow up shots will be more consistent




nope cause the 22 doesnt have any STOPPING POWER!!!


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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   North Spore Injection Grain Bag, North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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